If you dont wanna talk about, or not interest about the next gen format, fine by me. This thread is created to discuss the merits and disadvantages of the two formats, NOT why you decide to stay with the current DVD format for whatever reason (no money, i download movies and play via PC bla bla bla). So , please refrain from spewing your personal preferences and stuff and stick to the point.

Going back to topic, there are already clamoring for more space from the HD-DVD camp, in anticipation of the LOTR Extended Edition movies. New Line is known for keeping the highest video quality with feature-packed release for the LOTR releases, but with only 30Gb storage capacity on the current HD-DVD disc, they may even have to split the movie disc and feature discs as how DVD release for these titles are treated. Meaning, no U-Control or In-Movie-Experience together with the movie, since the features and extras are separated onto another disc. If they do plan to combine the Extended movie and features together, video and audio bitrate will suffer, and we wont be seeing any inclusion of DTS HD Master Audio, or Dolby TrueHD lossless feed, and the video bitrate will suffer. Any video bitrate below 10Mbps, will not be a true indicator of what HD, that would be more towards a Superbit DVD release. As the day approaches towards the LOTR HD-DVD release, we shall know what compromises (if any) has been done to fit a 3hr++ movie onto 30Gb HD-DVD disc. Space is defitinely the problem here, and Blu-ray has that advantage with their already released BD50 50Gb Blu-ray titles, and studios in the Blu-ray camp are already starting to embrace the VC-1 video codec(as opposed to MPEG2 codec) to save more space for BR-J and Blu-Wizard( the U-Control and In-Movie-Experience version for Bluray) features in their presentation.

This post has been edited by stringfellow: Dec 26 2006, 02:38 PM

hey dudes,

ive been reading a lot about HDDVD and Bluray recently. Trying to figure out which one to opt for in the near future. I was planning to start with Bluray but ive read online that the PS3 has problems downscaling Bluray movies to 720p. This is just one of the sources: http://www.techimo.com/newsapp/i17529.html ]. Direct from the link:


Instead of scaling output for 720p displays, Ars Technica reports the PlayStation 3 will automatically downscale Blu-ray movies encoded at 1080i or 1080p to a rather disappointing 480p for displays lacking 1080 support.

Alas, if you don't have a set that does 1080i or 1080p, you're going to be forced into 480p which is far less impressive. PS3's lack of a scaler bites it again. 720p output is not available on the titles we tested

Of course that news is a month old. But does anyone here have that problem? Or has it been fixed with firmware updates. I searched but i couldnt find anything about it. Anyone can confirm this ?



This post has been edited by haflife: Dec 26 2006, 03:06 PM

Yeah, PS3 owners might not be running to the shops to buy Blu-Ray, but if there's millions of them out there before HD-DVD, movie studios will definitely be favoring the Blu-Ray platform. You can't ignore millions of potential buyers who already have the hardware ready.

Threadstarter: Sorry for being slightly, off topic, but it's not totally off topic. Firstly, i don't believe in God and secondly, i hate cats. So, no love lost. Cheers.

I heard that from the game persepctive but not the movies. If it does do that, then those who bought their TVs with mainly 720p support will be screwed. Those who got their HDTVs recently will definitely have 1080i support, and those who used LCD TVs and PC monitors are definitely safe since 1080i are supported.

Keep up with the times, please. If you do hang out at home theatre related forums, there are more HD-DVD enthusiasts than Bluray, even though you have close to a million PS3s sold which would work as a potential Bluray player. PS3 was purchased first and foremost as a gaming console, and the thoughts of having it as a Bluray player is secondary at best.

Yes, it's totally off-topic, we are discussing HD-DVDs and Bluray, not DVDs. We are not talking anything close about Wii selling 3 times over PS3, those are fodders for console war zealots, and i dont want this thread to get any messier.

I see, thanks for the feedback bro string.

You havent heard of the Sopranos HD DVD and Bluray version havent you. I created a "BD storage superiority myth" because of that. Both versions are 4 double layer disks box set. Meaning the total size of the box sets are HD DVD = 120GB, BD = 200GB. The BD version can easily be fitted into 2 Double layer + 1 Single layer disks. but no. The only different between the two disk sets are . The HD DVD boxset comes with a Dolby Digital Plus (lossy) 5.1 English soundtrack. The BD box set comes with only a PCM 5.1 (lossless) English track, no Dolby Digital or DTS. The problem, PCM can only be transfered through analogue or HDMI. The absolutely screw PS3 owners without HDMI a receiver as they can only get a 2.0 lossless PCM track using the PS3 toslink. The question is now, yeah BD has bigger storage but how does that benefit us the consumer in this case?

And btw - there is absolutely NO WAY that we will see a single disk LOTR extended edition

i have created both the HD DVD add on and PS3 head count on AVS forum. The result, nearing 900 units of the add on sold to AVS forum members alone as compared to the PS3 = <200

Xbox add on : http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread....125#post9236125

PS3 : http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=752948

keep in mind that HD DVD titles sold at Amazon still beating BD titles sales even after the sale of more than 1mil PS3

more than 1 mil ps3s?

aik..

This post has been edited by Mgsrulz: Dec 26 2006, 10:26 PM

Thanks again for the lesson, and the condescending tone that comes free with it, G5sim.

The reason why i posted the LOTR dilemma was the policy New Line took with producing these titles. They spare no expense, and therefore went all out with including all the extras and infusing all the audio/video nicecities onto these titles. So taking that as the cue, you would think New Line would use higher video bitrate from the present bitrates encoded into current HD-DVD titles, which hovers around 11-16MBps. Increasing video bitrates means taking chunks away from total storage memory available, which is already precious commodity not readily available on a 30Gb HD-DVD compared to Bluray's 50Gb. I agree Bluray could be more prudent with adding lossy codecs to save space further , compared to the lossless PCMs, but if you have heard how the lossless audio sounds on a well-equipped HT setup, you will agree where that huge space went to, it went to an amazing audio experience. There arent any real-world Dolby TrueHD or DTS HD Master Audio hardware decoders in commercially available AV receivers in the market at the moment, so coding it to that format only provides the advantage of saving space with compromises in audio quality, while waiting for real-world hardware decoders to come into the picture.

That's the issue i was raising, and not siding on any camp. New Line has shown more interest in the HD-DVD camp than Bluray, although they have not taking serious side on any particular camp. This provides ample opportunity for both camps to present their best way to fit the entire LOTR Extended titles into the best possible configuration that both sides have to offer. That is why i brought the issue up. I dont give a rat's arse which camp wins, i have both of em in my setup, and im impressed with both of em.

Well, for the time being, BD leads.

LOL to the second statement. So do i.

some has suggested that Peter Jackson has power on the releases of his titles. And as he is now 'kawan baik" Bill gates .. you imagine lah ... .. so it must has more to do with Jackson than New Line.

and as for the PCM versus TrueHD/DTS-HD MAster. All are lossless tracks. TrueHD/DTS-HD Master are the newer and more eficient codes. Some even argue that PCM is not a true 'lossless'. I am wondering why a 'new' format like BD would want to use ancient and less eficient codecs such as PCM and MPEG2. Everything about BD is new, more superior. So why apply something from the Melinda Gordon' store .

one more thing .. Blu-ray drive has reached LOWYAT. Compuzone is selling the Panasonic BD bare drive at RM2999. .. and people are getting the PC supported HD DVD add on for RM730 from Japan! When the BD camp people manage to get the price down to RM1,000, the HD DVD drives would be selling at RM219. Another reason for MS to throw its support to HD DVD.

This post has been edited by g5sim: Dec 27 2006, 01:11 PM

yep .. people are praising SONY for managing to ship over 1mil PS3, the problem now is, those PS3 are not sold out immediately as they should

Edited for double post.

This post has been edited by stringfellow: Dec 27 2006, 08:30 PM

Again, i dont give a fcuk which camp wins. The LOTR scenario gives the best possible case of why space is important. I dont want either format to die. To side with either one, is like championing your fanboyism on one format over the other. Id rather gave the best from both camps. Portraying your fanboyish allegiance in public is like forgetting to zip up your fly with your penis hanging out for all to see.

Your LOTR scenario is far from the common case. Optimize for the common case, that has been the rule which has driven the industry forward. When you overengineer, what you get is... the PS3. It's late, overpriced, and not really revolutionary after all (fanboys may beg to differ).

A single format would be good for everyone. No need to worry about whether their equipment will be able to read this or that, or buy two different setups just to play their movies. Reduces manufacturing costs since there will be more volume. There is nothing wrong with saying one is better than the other based on its merits, provided you have something to back it up with.

In this case, i think it's quite clear which format would be the best for the consumer, especially one without too deep a pocket. Not picking a side is like forgetting to zip your fly with nothing to show for it even.

Wo Wo WOOOO. Is it really that expensive? Perhaps PS3 as a computer addon would be more feasible (if it's possible at all). Perhaps some genius should write a thing for a PS3 addon.

IMHO, PS3 is a PS2 with bigger paper specs. The higher resolution adds little to gaming dimension. I mean there is not much to shout about, PC gamers have long been riding the megapixel gaming wave. So wat makes the PS3 so different? Beats me.

There is nothing wrong with picking side, as long as one recognizes the merits of the other options available. What's sad is the overzealous attempts of the fanboyish few to glorify and idolize every little supposed advantages, while nitpicking the minute flaws and blowing it out of proportion.

Picking a side overzealously and prematurely is like furiously zipping up your fly when you realise your penis is hanging outside its cage, and prematurely zipping your member into the zipper track. Yeouch!

Dont like the PS3? Hey its a free country , spew all you want. But gimme PS3 ANYTIME over that stagnating cesspool you call PC gaming.

Check, your move.

This post has been edited by stringfellow: Dec 27 2006, 08:49 PM

I am still pondering which to go for. That's why hoping for a 'universal' player that plays both format at the price of one. Fat hope at the moment, i guess.

The other thing that I wld like to check is the new digital sound format from either Blu-Ray or HD-DVD. The True HD surr format from DD and DTS. With the AV rcvrs coming out soon in 2007 for these formats and not forgetting the HDMI switching or 'upscaling' in it, it seems like heavenly PQ and sound are being brought down to earth.

That's the reason that I am holding on my upgrades.

The are talks of hybrid players but nothing vertain came out of it.

i have a tiny d*** and even tinier balls, so the chances of me zipping my penis or balls would not be that huge

i state what is best for consumers. PS3 is late and overpriced, less software. What does that translate for consumers. The BD PC drive is $2999 while the HD DVD "PC drive" is $730. Both are doing the same thing. Both display the maximum 1080p. Both do lossless tracks. Again, why would consumers pay double for a product when they are doing the same thing!