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Discussion The EPL, Issues to discuss

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TSDuke Red
post Nov 22 2006, 12:40 PM, updated 18y ago

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I've looked through all the topics and noticed that there wasn't one on matches that involved other teams in the EPL. I know that some of us watch these matches and thought it would be nice to be able to discuss them as well.

Did anyone see the Blackburn vs Tottenham one? Tugay scored an awesome goal but was unlucky to be sent off. He received a straight red which can only be warranted had there been intent in the challenge. He clearly caught his opponent with his trailing leg and it was a definite penalty but there was no intent. Ghaly deserved to be sent off for his elbow though Martin Jol strongly thought otherwise. It was a full on affair and Spurs were unlucky to concede a soft penalty. Friedel got a hand to it but was beaten still. Michael (I insulted Colleen when drunk and got socked by Rooney) Gray was voted MOM.

This post has been edited by Duke Red: Nov 30 2006, 03:59 PM
TSDuke Red
post Nov 22 2006, 02:40 PM

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Erm so no one watches other matches?
williamlee_1985
post Nov 22 2006, 02:42 PM

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QUOTE(Duke Red @ Nov 22 2006, 12:40 PM)
I've looked through all the topics and noticed that there wasn't one on matches that involved other teams in the EPL. I know that some of us watch these matches and thought it would be nice to be able to discuss them as well.

Did anyone see the Blackburn vs Tottenham one? Tugay scored an awesome goal but was unlucky to be sent off. He received a straight red which can only be warranted had there been intent in the challenge. He clearly caught his opponent with his trailing leg and it was a definite penalty but there was no intent. Ghaly deserved to be sent off for his elbow though Martin Jol strongly thought otherwise. It was a full on affair and Spurs were unlucky to concede a soft penalty. Friedel got a hand to it but was beaten still. Michael (I insulted Colleen when drunk and got socked by Rooney) Gray was voted MOM.
*
Well about the Tugay incident, although there was clearly no intent, but he was the last man. Whenever the last man foul the opposition, it's a straight red.
verx
post Nov 22 2006, 02:53 PM

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That law is full of it if u asked me. I wished they get rid of it.

This post has been edited by verx: Nov 22 2006, 02:53 PM
nck_ck
post Nov 22 2006, 04:40 PM

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nice one Duke Red, an interesting topic that can involve almost everyone that watches EPL, with or without being a supporter of some team thumbup.gif . I really didn't think he deserved a red card, but that just goes to show u the standard of refereeing in EPL these days... sweat.gif
TSDuke Red
post Nov 22 2006, 04:48 PM

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On another note, I'm happy for Asian football that Seol Kyi-Hyun seems to be in smashing form. He start upfront for Reading and got himself a headed goal last weekend. Granted the defending wasn't the best but he took his chance well. I don't personally know any Koreans but from what I hear, they aren't the nicest of blokes. Good for the continent though.
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post Nov 22 2006, 05:06 PM

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QUOTE(Duke Red @ Nov 22 2006, 04:48 PM)
On another note, I'm happy for Asian football that Seol Kyi-Hyun seems to be in smashing form. He start upfront for Reading and got himself a headed goal last weekend. Granted the defending wasn't the best but he took his chance well. I don't personally know any Koreans but from what I hear, they aren't the nicest of blokes. Good for the continent though.
*
Well i know a few Koreans personally from my sec school wink.gif and i think that perception is unfair. Even one of my best friends back then is a Korean and they are generally a friendly bunch (but they are also very very loud tongue.gif imo of course)
TSDuke Red
post Nov 22 2006, 05:25 PM

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And which posh private institution might you have attended my good man?

I had a Korean friend as well in Perth and he was cool. Just saying what I heard from some of my other mates. I suppose it's just a case of 1 rotten apple spoiling the whole bunch.

This post has been edited by Duke Red: Nov 22 2006, 05:33 PM
donpapachino
post Nov 22 2006, 05:27 PM

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only watch the 'goals' program for EPL, if dont involve my team's matches. laugh.gif
@rissband
post Nov 22 2006, 07:24 PM

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good topic.. i always watch other teams football, its help me improving my playing skills though..
lolz_5167
post Nov 22 2006, 07:28 PM

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TheWhacker
post Nov 22 2006, 07:42 PM

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QUOTE(Duke Red @ Nov 22 2006, 04:48 PM)
On another note, I'm happy for Asian football that Seol Kyi-Hyun seems to be in smashing form. He start upfront for Reading and got himself a headed goal last weekend. Granted the defending wasn't the best but he took his chance well. I don't personally know any Koreans but from what I hear, they aren't the nicest of blokes. Good for the continent though.
*
Koreans are very hand working. I have a Korean friend once at church and every Sunday morning he sweaps the outside area of the church, cleans the glass door with newspaper, takes the rubbish and sort them up nicely and etc. without being told to do so. And while he's in Malaysia (2 years plus), he learned BM and Mandarin and he speaks them so fluently.

I know this is all OT, but that's maybe why Ji-Sung Park (ManUtd) and Seol Kyi-Hyun (Reading) can actually fight for a place in the starting 11 in those 2 teams. Some of us (including me) most likely went "A Korean playing in the EPL ????" because of the standard of Asian football (which is growing up) but i think these two players have shown ... if you're hardworking, you'll get the rewards.
harrychoo
post Nov 22 2006, 07:58 PM

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Pls update the date at ur title so we know which all matches we will be all discussed.
verx
post Nov 22 2006, 08:14 PM

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QUOTE(Duke Red @ Nov 22 2006, 05:25 PM)
And which posh private institution might you have attended my good man?

I had a Korean friend as well in Perth and he was cool. Just saying what I heard from some of my other mates. I suppose it's just a case of 1 rotten apple spoiling the whole bunch.
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Nothing posh actually blush.gif
But a private international school nonetheless located along Jalan Ampang: Sayfol smile.gif
And i think there are jerks in every community so don't let one spoil your perception on the whole wink.gif
SUSAcey
post Nov 22 2006, 10:32 PM

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Dirty Hossam Ghaly. If you ask me thats an intentional dive and elbow. Tugay shouldnt have been sent off. Yellow card maybe, definitely not a red. Ghaly's elbow, even before the ball reach teh elbow was so damn high up Jol still wanna protest... :/
TSDuke Red
post Nov 23 2006, 11:32 AM

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QUOTE(lolz_5167 @ Nov 22 2006, 07:28 PM)
nakamura is brilliant too tis morning
Gordan Strachan has even gone on record to say that he is amongst the best deadball specialists in the world and I'd have to agree with him. He caught my attention during his time at Reggina when I used to watch the Serie A highlights, and he seems to be getting better and better at it. I haven't watched enough of him to comment on his all round contribution though,

QUOTE(TheWhacker @ Nov 22 2006, 07:42 PM)
Koreans are very hand working. I have a Korean friend once at church and every Sunday morning he sweaps the outside area of the church, cleans the glass door with newspaper, takes the rubbish and sort them up nicely and etc. without being told to do so. And while he's in Malaysia (2 years plus), he learned BM and Mandarin and he speaks them so fluently.

I know this is all OT, but that's maybe why Ji-Sung Park (ManUtd) and Seol Kyi-Hyun (Reading) can actually fight for a place in the starting 11 in those 2 teams. Some of us (including me) most likely went "A Korean playing in the EPL ????" because of the standard of Asian football (which is growing up) but i think these two players have shown ... if you're hardworking, you'll get the rewards.
Might has something to do with their military training??? Very disciplined players there are.


QUOTE(verx @ Nov 22 2006, 08:14 PM)
Nothing posh actually blush.gif
But a private international school nonetheless located along Jalan Ampang: Sayfol smile.gif
And i think there are jerks in every community so don't let one spoil your perception on the whole wink.gif
Ah I see, I have a friend who used to study there as well. Real d*** he is biggrin.gif

TSDuke Red
post Nov 30 2006, 04:08 PM

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Did anyone catch the most recent episode of Football Focus? They boys were on the issue of foreign investors buying football clubs, especially in the EPL. The main focus was of course Chelsea and Steve McMahon brought up the issue of what might happen if Abramovich were to get bored and move on. This may leave the club with massive debts. I have to agree with the boys that it's ok if the investors have the interest of the clubs at the top of their agenda. It is a really big bonus especially if the investor is a fan of the club. The most recent club to be acquired is of course West Ham and the next may well be my beloved Liverpool. Football as they say, has become a business and these days it's all about winning and profit. Steve McMahon mentioned that as long as clubs continue winning, fans would not complain. I personally do not fully agree with this statement. When the Glazers bought over Manchester United, the club was put in debt and this has spilled over to the fans who now have to fork out a fortune for tickets. Prices are said to be going even higher next season so many true fans may one day not be able to attend as many games as they would like. Surely only the upper class folk and wealthy tourists will one day occupy stadiums if this continues. Football is no longer the people's game but a business. Shebbie compared the escalating ticket prices with paying more for a good product but surely it's not the same. When purchasing a product, we have a choice between a more and a less expensive brand. It's not like we can change football clubs. Once again, football is a business.
skylinegtr34rule4life
post Nov 30 2006, 06:47 PM

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a lot of penalties wrongly not given n offside goals wrongly disallowed. doh.gif doh.gif i feel the standard of refereeing has been worsen now. sweat.gif sweat.gif

This post has been edited by skylinegtr34rule4life: Nov 30 2006, 06:47 PM
kueks
post Nov 30 2006, 07:07 PM

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ah
i tot the main reason clubs buy players from korea/japan/china is to boost their merchandising sales ? whistling.gif


akRia
post Nov 30 2006, 07:51 PM

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QUOTE(kueks @ Nov 30 2006, 07:07 PM)
ah
i tot the main reason clubs buy players from korea/japan/china is to boost their merchandising sales ? whistling.gif
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japan china mostly,but korean is class,their skill worth more than their price tag
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post Dec 1 2006, 07:41 AM

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agree...agree...
More n more Asian players are plying their trade in Europe nowadays. Koreans like Ji Sung n Seol fighting for 1st 11 at Man Utd n Reading is encouraging. They suit the EPl mayb because of their excellent stamina plus hardworking & dare to take on n run at their opponents
TSDuke Red
post Dec 1 2006, 02:50 PM

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QUOTE(kueks @ Nov 30 2006, 07:07 PM)
ah
i tot the main reason clubs buy players from korea/japan/china is to boost their merchandising sales ? whistling.gif
Not only that but also the TV rights. If the whole population of China pissed on us, our whole country will be flooded as they say.
refnulf
post Dec 2 2006, 11:43 AM

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QUOTE(skylinegtr34rule4life @ Nov 30 2006, 06:47 PM)
a lot of penalties wrongly not given n offside goals wrongly disallowed. doh.gif doh.gif i feel the standard of refereeing has been worsen now. sweat.gif sweat.gif
*
You can say that again, the standard has definitely dropped and you would say that they have preferential treatment for selected teams.

An example would be when Droga deliberately elbowed Nemanja Vidic in the face and almost fractured his jaw. You could say it was premeditated, he looked to see where Vidic was and then hammered him with his elbow. Amazing that the referee would just give him a yellow when you find other referees giving reds for much lighter offenses.

Players need to responsible for their actions and try not to injure other players for the fun of it. Tsk tsk, a shame really!

But hey, they seem to be getting away with alot of things right? No cards for atrocious fouls, special face to face visits from the referees's boss, etc.

Arsenal use to be the team that played dirty, but I guess that's changed now.

This post has been edited by refnulf: Dec 2 2006, 11:46 AM
emy_xvidia
post Dec 2 2006, 11:51 AM

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QUOTE(refnulf @ Dec 2 2006, 11:43 AM)
You can say that again, the standard has definitely dropped and you would say that they have preferential treatment for selected teams.

An example would be when Droga deliberately elbowed Droga deliberately elbowed Nemanja Vidic in the face and almost fractured his jaw. You could say it was premeditated, he looked to see where Vidic was and then hammered him with his elbow. Amazing that the referee would just give him a yellow when you find other referees giving reds for much lighter offenses.

Players need to responsible for their actions and try not to injure other players for the fun of it. Tsk tsk, a shame really!
*
i think that incident happened when they were trying to fight for a heading, right? i do think that drogba didn't do it on purpose... they were both jumping to get the ball and it happened that drogba jump a little bit high than vidic, and you know, it's hard to balance ourselves when jumping... and that was happened so fast and i don't think the referee should be blamed for this...in a big match like that, tension and pressures will always be on the referee... so, a couple of mistakes by the referee is a norm... but hey, i do think the referee was on MU side in first half... tongue.gif

This post has been edited by emy_xvidia: Dec 2 2006, 05:15 PM
refnulf
post Dec 2 2006, 11:54 AM

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QUOTE(emy_xvidia @ Dec 2 2006, 11:51 AM)
i think that incident happened when they were trying to fight for a heading, right? i do think that drogba didn't do it on purpose... they were both jumping to get the ball and it happened that drogba jump a little bit high than vidic, and you know, it's hard to balance ourselves when jumping... and that was happened so fast and i don't think the referee should be blamed for this...in a big match like that, tension and pressures will always be on the referee... so, a couple of mistakes by the referee is a norm... but hey, i do think the referee was on MU side in first half...  tongue.gif
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Right, sure he didn't do it on purpose. He looked back, measured exactly where his elbow would go and BAM, hammered Vidic face in. Referee must have been stoned during the game to only give him a yellow card.

You are right, he certainly made a mistake there!
verx
post Dec 2 2006, 12:06 PM

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The ref tried to keep the game 11 v 11 and it turned out better for it. But the Drogba elbow was definitely pre-meditated and deserved a red. Only someone who is ignorant can argue otherwise. But overall i thought the ref had a very good game; he tried to keep things flowing and at the end of the day that's what we all want.
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post Dec 2 2006, 02:43 PM

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Well Drogba is known to have a sinister side to his game, don't he?
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post Dec 2 2006, 03:43 PM

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QUOTE(emy_xvidia @ Dec 2 2006, 11:51 AM)
i think that incident happened when they were trying to fight for a heading, right? i do think that drogba didn't do it on purpose... they were both jumping to get the ball and it happened that drogba jump a little bit high than vidic, and you know, it's hard to balance ourselves when jumping... and that was happened so fast and i don't think the referee should be blamed for this...in a big match like that, tension and pressures will always be on the referee... so, a couple of mistakes by the referee is a norm... but hey, i do think the referee was on MU side in first half...  tongue.gif
*
well every fan will defend their own supported players...but come on, this is too much.

the camera caught drogba looking at vidic and then jumped and elbow him.


uNeVErwaLkaloNe
post Dec 2 2006, 05:03 PM

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why do i get the feeling that this thread gonna be MU vs chelsea, we dont need such thing in this thread. if you want to rant, go back to your own thread, this thread is about other epl clubs
emy_xvidia
post Dec 2 2006, 05:07 PM

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QUOTE(williamlee_1985 @ Dec 2 2006, 03:43 PM)
well every fan will defend their own supported players...but come on, this is too much.

the camera caught drogba looking at vidic and then jumped and elbow him.
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i guess he looked at vidic to calculate how high he should jump to win the heading... well, i understand you are the supporter of MU and will fight no matter what to defend your own player... but to judge a match, we should be fair whether the team playing is our favourite or not... thumbup.gif well yeah, i admit Drogba did foul when jumping for the heading and he deserved the yellow card... he did receive a punishment for his foul right?... but for me, to give him a red card for a foul like that is a no... committing foul during jumping is a norm and actually hard to be controlled especially if an opponent player gives pressure for the same reason, to win the ball... well, i do not know from whom some of you got that fact that Drogba deliberately elbowed vidic's face and i do not know either whether Drogba deliberately elbowed Vidic, both are the same and it was a foul... the result for his action was a yellow card for him and i think it's fair enough... well, look at the referee's decision in first half, most of them were sided to MU... MU got a lot of free kicks in the first half of the game mostly caused by some light body collisions by Ballack and referee should not blow his whistle for body contact fightings among players unless they were real rough... rough here means a player intentionally sprinting and ramming other players, ah, that's rough... but Ballack, he did play fair to win the ball, he has the strength... ahh, stop about Ballack but my point is, a few mistakes by a referee is normal... smile.gif well, Drogba did foul, Ballack did it, and other MU players did the same too... Football, it's a man game... blush.gif peace bro... icon_rolleyes.gif
emy_xvidia
post Dec 2 2006, 05:11 PM

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QUOTE(uNeVErwaLkaloNe @ Dec 2 2006, 05:03 PM)
why do i get the feeling that this thread gonna be MU vs chelsea, we dont need such thing in this thread. if you want to rant, go back to your own thread, this thread is about other epl clubs
*
well sorry if u feel so... blush.gif icon_rolleyes.gif but i think this is an EPL thread which involves MU and Chelsea as well... i think it's ok to discuss anything here within the EPL league... well, sorry if i has offended you... icon_rolleyes.gif sorry bro... smile.gif
tatayoung
post Dec 2 2006, 05:12 PM

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Yup....,Drogba has always been a little bit on the more notorious/aggressive side even back in the french league.....(but with reference to that,aren't all african players a tad bit too aggresive...)controlled aggression is as i have always believed a must in the worlds top soccer league's....,take player's like zidane and ronaldinho as examples....,once was known to be a silent and subtle contributour to football and all of a sudden,in a burst of aggression he blows it(the infamous headbutting incident...)the other does have his days when he's a little bit outta controll but seems to escape flawlessly due to that perpectual smile that always remains......Back to the topic....was drogba wrong?.....,Yes,(to a certain extend...),Do we want everyone to be a Requilme in the English game?.....A resounding NO.

This post has been edited by tatayoung: Dec 2 2006, 05:14 PM
vreis
post Dec 2 2006, 06:29 PM

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Well one thing is, Drogba got a yellow for excessive foul & Ronaldinho got a yellow for excessive celebration for goal of the season, so u think Drogba got of lightly, I think yes.
refnulf
post Dec 2 2006, 08:34 PM

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QUOTE(uNeVErwaLkaloNe @ Dec 2 2006, 05:03 PM)
why do i get the feeling that this thread gonna be MU vs chelsea, we dont need such thing in this thread. if you want to rant, go back to your own thread, this thread is about other epl clubs
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Last I checked, the thread title was "THE EPL, issues to discuss". If you're jealous that the issue happens to be MU, Chelsea related. Perhaps you can start talking about your beloved club as well icon_rolleyes.gif
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post Dec 2 2006, 11:48 PM

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QUOTE(refnulf @ Dec 2 2006, 08:34 PM)
Last I checked, the thread title was "THE EPL, issues to discuss".  If you're jealous that the issue happens to be MU, Chelsea related. Perhaps you can start talking about your beloved club as well  icon_rolleyes.gif
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look at the first post before u start posting anything else.... shakehead.gif

i'm not jealous, i just get tired of seeing chelsea vs others again and again, and that includes liverpool and arsenal as well. anyway, the match already over and we know drogba wont be punished by fa. so, why dont we just end it here? just my 20 cent icon_rolleyes.gif
TSDuke Red
post Dec 4 2006, 11:26 AM

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There is always going to be a risk of arguments when you have rival fans in the same thread but that's what a forum is for isn't it? Not to have arguments but some banter and discussion. Fans will of course be inclined to defend their players, but we sometimes need to be a little more objective especially in a discussion. You won't find me defending my own players if I knew they were dirty, just like how Gerrard blatantly dived no too long ago. As I've said before, the club must always come before the player as players come and go. If a player disgraces the club, I will look at him with shame and not stand by him regardless of the circumstances. I'm not going to say that Bellamy is an angel because he most definitely is not.

In the case of referees making poor decisions, I feel that it would be unfair to place all blame on them. Refs can only call it as they see it. Let me use the penalty Chimbonda gave away against Arsenal as an example. Television replays clearly showed he got the ball before the player but from Graham Poll's angle, it was a penalty. He was behind both players and he could only call it as he saw it. Can't expect the linesman to have spotted it either, even if they had perfect vision. So this brings us back to the issue of television replays and blaming FIFA.
TSDuke Red
post Dec 4 2006, 11:58 AM

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FA Cup 3rd round fixtures.


Tuesday, 12 December 2006
Basingstoke v Aldershot, 19:45
Bournemouth v Bristol Rovers, 19:45
Chester v Bury, 19:45
Doncaster v Mansfield, 19:45
Leyton Orient v Torquay, 19:45
Millwall v Bradford, 19:45
Saturday, 06 January 2007
Barnet v Colchester, 15:00
Birmingham v Newcastle, 15:00
Blackpool v Aldershot or Basingstoke, 15:00
Bristol City v Coventry, 15:00
Bristol Rovers or Bournemouth v Hereford, 15:00
Bury or Chester v Ipswich, 15:00
Cardiff v Tottenham, 15:00
Chelsea v Macclesfield, 15:00
Crystal Palace v Swindon, 15:00
Derby v Wrexham, 15:00
Everton v Blackburn, 15:00
Hull v Middlesbrough, 15:00
Leicester v Fulham, 15:00
Liverpool v Arsenal, 15:00
Man Utd v Aston Villa, 15:00
Mansfield or Doncaster v Bolton, 15:00
Peterborough v Plymouth, 15:00
Portsmouth v Wigan, 15:00
Preston v Sunderland, 15:00
QPR v Luton, 15:00
Reading v Burnley, 15:00
Salisbury or Nottm Forest v Charlton, 15:00
Sheff Utd v Swansea, 15:00
Sheff Wed v Man City, 15:00
Southend v Barnsley, 15:00
Stoke v Bradford or Millwall, 15:00
Tamworth v Norwich, 15:00
Torquay or Leyton Orient v Southampton, 15:00
Watford v Stockport, 15:00
West Brom v Leeds, 15:00
West Ham v Brighton, 15:00
Wolverhampton v Oldham, 15:00

That has to be the pick of the bunch. Macclesfield will also be delighted to be playing at Stamford Bridge. I'm still waiting for the time when Liverpool get's to face someone from below the Championship. Sigh.. tough fixtures for 2 years.
dEviLs
post Dec 4 2006, 12:07 PM

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Watched the game SU vs Charlton, SU second goal is a real cracker
chitchat
post Dec 4 2006, 12:23 PM

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QUOTE(refnulf @ Dec 2 2006, 11:43 AM)
Arsenal use to be the team that played dirty, but I guess that's changed now.
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i got a feeling that when ARS is MU main rival u said ARS play dirty now CHE is MU main rival u said CHE play dirty. I think is more like physical tactic, close down and body contact opponent so they lose balance. CHE midfield does has a lot of muscle, Ballack, Makelele, Essien but can result in many yellow time if they going TOO ROUGH.

Anyway i believe all player has no intention of injuring other player in a football game but they will do everything do win the ball. Drogba case i think he is trying to use his arm to block Vidic from the ball and not intentionally elbow him. But elbow is an elbow even if is unintentional and if ref give a red card i wouldnt complain either. But wat amuse me most was that when Vidic kena elbow he like so pain tremble on the grass then just 2 sec he jump up standing like no business to me is a bit of acting there.

The good thing about EPL is they condemn acting and diving.

This post has been edited by chitchat: Dec 4 2006, 12:31 PM
dEviLs
post Dec 4 2006, 12:49 PM

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QUOTE(chitchat @ Dec 4 2006, 12:23 PM)
i got a feeling that when ARS is MU main rival u said ARS play dirty now CHE is MU main rival u said CHE play dirty. I think is more like physical tactic, close down and body contact opponent so they lose balance. CHE midfield does has a lot of muscle, Ballack, Makelele, Essien but can result in many yellow time if they going TOO ROUGH.

Anyway i believe all player has no intention of injuring other player in a football game but they will do everything do win the ball. Drogba case i think he is trying to use his arm to block Vidic from the ball and not intentionally elbow him. But elbow is an elbow even if is unintentional and if ref give a red card i wouldnt complain either. But wat amuse me most was that when Vidic kena elbow he like so pain tremble on the grass then just 2 sec he jump up standing like no business to me is a bit of acting there.

The good thing about EPL is they condemn acting and diving.
*
Well I wouldnt say all but most of it..it's like 99%.
As for Drogba's elbow you can see it clearly from the replay thats a deliberate elbow
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post Dec 4 2006, 01:04 PM

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I think the referees should undergo eye examination..last weekend, some diving cheating bastad dived in front of the ref and the ref gotconned..even the commentator was bemused why the ref didnt see the dive
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post Dec 4 2006, 01:54 PM

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QUOTE(zimhibikie @ Dec 4 2006, 01:04 PM)
I think the referees should undergo eye examination..last weekend, some diving cheating bastad dived in front of the ref and the ref gotconned..even the commentator was bemused why the ref didnt see the dive
*
so you only saw the 'last weekend diver'? how about the rest? shame on you..
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post Dec 4 2006, 03:43 PM

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QUOTE(@rissband @ Dec 4 2006, 01:54 PM)
so you only saw the 'last weekend diver'? how about the rest? shame on you..
*
Why should I be ashamed? Those divin' chaetin' bastads should be ashamed. Last weekend was just one example..if I list out this season's divers, then ull probably say the same thing and asked what about last season divers..

Crissy Ronaldo should have his legs whacked with a mallet
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post Dec 4 2006, 04:43 PM

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QUOTE(zimhibikie @ Dec 4 2006, 03:43 PM)
Why should I be ashamed? Those divin' chaetin' bastads should be ashamed. Last weekend was just one example..if I list out this season's divers, then ull probably say the same thing and asked what about last season divers..

Crissy Ronaldo should have his legs whacked with a mallet
*
its not about the last season or so on.. dive is become part of football nowadays.. sometimes the player is no intention to dive but the slightest contact when the momentum of the player can make it look like a dive.. somehow.. i dont think it is cheat, it just clever play..
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post Dec 4 2006, 04:54 PM

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That's where we disagree mate. Diving is cheating in my books. If there is contact, it is a foul, not a dive. Inviting contact is a strategy. Flying through the air in anticipation of contact, is not. I would be embarrassed if my team needed to cheat to win.
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post Dec 4 2006, 05:00 PM

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QUOTE(Duke Red @ Dec 4 2006, 04:54 PM)
That's where we disagree mate. Diving is cheating in my books. If there is contact, it is a foul, not a dive. Inviting contact is a strategy. Flying through the air in anticipation of contact, is not. I would be embarrassed if my team needed to cheat to win.
*
the 'clever play' as i said in my previous post is not by diving when there is no contact, its maybe happen as what u said, inviting contact.. ppl will see that as a dive too icon_rolleyes.gif

This post has been edited by @rissband: Dec 4 2006, 05:01 PM
TSDuke Red
post Dec 4 2006, 05:08 PM

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Well like I said, if a player is touched, then it is a foul. That also opens up a whole new topic man. Remember how some commentators go ,"there was contact, but that doesn't warrant a penalty for me"? They are indicating now that there wasn't enough contact. So how much is enough?
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post Dec 4 2006, 05:11 PM

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QUOTE(zimhibikie @ Dec 4 2006, 03:43 PM)
Why should I be ashamed? Those divin' chaetin' bastads should be ashamed. Last weekend was just one example..if I list out this season's divers, then ull probably say the same thing and asked what about last season divers..

Crissy Ronaldo should have his legs whacked with a mallet
*
So should Robben's legs be whacked by the same mallet? tongue.gif

In England diving is considered a heinous and disgraceful act but if u cross over to countries like Spain or Portugal, players who con the ref are considered intelligent. Personally i detest diving and i pity the refs who are expected to make the right call everytime in a game that moves at such lightning pace. The calls for the inclusion of video technology imo is just all talk without thinking carefully how to actually implement a suitable system. Even now with replays it takes us a while to decide whether a certain player dived, or whether it was a pen; even with so many camera angles. Are we willing to sacrifice the flow of the beautiful game for a stop and start version just because of all these incidents? Just food for thought.
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post Dec 4 2006, 05:15 PM

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QUOTE(Duke Red @ Dec 4 2006, 04:54 PM)
That's where we disagree mate. Diving is cheating in my books. If there is contact, it is a foul, not a dive. Inviting contact is a strategy. Flying through the air in anticipation of contact, is not. I would be embarrassed if my team needed to cheat to win.
*
Gerrard againts Sheffield?
http://img175.imageshack.us/my.php?image=c...ggerrardze4.gif

Van Persie does it in a lot of games, Robben.. but oh no only Ronaldo does it. Anything to do with ManUtd get magnified 300%. The penalty decision I believe he stumble..., ball/defender.. those kinda thing, should blame the referee, not him. 2nd one he jumped to avoid Boateng, they collide... foul lah. Atleast his leg didn't 'go and find' Boateng before falling like what Pires did againts Portsmouth. This season Ronaldo has been really 'clean' so far.

.................
Well about the use of video replays, only use it in a match only on goal/penalty decisions. Whether they're offside or not, ball cross the line or not, that kinda thing. The rest let the ref/linesman decides. On whether a player dives or not, do it after the game, where a panel review those replays and then give out the appropriate punishments. That's the only way to stop blatant diving.

Oh, forgot. Vidic miss a game because of that Drogba elbow. He might have made a meal of the Ballack challenge earlier, but that one with Drogba really hurt heh.

This post has been edited by Wan: Dec 4 2006, 05:20 PM
TSDuke Red
post Dec 4 2006, 05:20 PM

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I've said this many times before and I'll say it again. I feel like a broken record. I don't condone diving even if a player from my club does so and I will not defend him if he is guilty.

Having said that, you can't pick isolated incidents and proclaim someone a diver. If a player dive 1% of the time, I'd hardly consider criminal.

This post has been edited by Duke Red: Dec 4 2006, 05:21 PM
akRia
post Dec 4 2006, 05:25 PM

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QUOTE(Wan @ Dec 4 2006, 05:15 PM)
Gerrard againts Sheffield?
http://img175.imageshack.us/my.php?image=c...ggerrardze4.gif

Van Persie does it in a lot of games, Robben.. but oh no only Ronaldo does it. Anything to do with ManUtd get magnified 300%. The penalty decision I believe he stumble..., ball/defender.. those kinda thing, should blame the referee, not him. 2nd one he jumped to avoid Boateng, they collide... foul lah. Atleast his leg didn't 'go and find' Boateng before falling like what Pires did againts Portsmouth. This season Ronaldo has been really 'clean' so far.

.................
Well about the use of video replays, only use it in a match only on goal/penalty decisions. Whether they're offside or not, ball cross the line or not, that kinda thing. The rest let the ref/linesman decides. On whether a player dives or not, do it after the game, where a panel review those replays and then give out the appropriate punishments. That's the only way to stop blatant diving.

Oh, forgot. Vidic miss a game because of that Drogba elbow. He might have made a meal of the Ballack challenge earlier, but that one with Drogba really hurt heh.
*
shakehead.gif is this indirect refering to duke red that liverpoolfc player dive too?personally i dont think that is needed,duke red himself i think he too don't agree that gerrard should dive for that too. anyway, i think diving is part of the modern football,dive smart,but not dive frequently.this happen to most winger,for example c.ronaldo will *fall* down for quite some number of times in one game if you realise,anyway,this happens to most winger too.
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post Dec 4 2006, 05:27 PM

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QUOTE(Duke Red @ Dec 4 2006, 05:20 PM)
I've said this many times before and I'll say it again. I feel like a broken record. I don't condone diving even if a player from my club does so and I will not defend him if he is guilty.

Having said that, you can't pick isolated incidents and proclaim someone a diver. If a player dive 1% of the time, I'd hardly consider criminal.
*
thats what i call intelligence!!!

This post has been edited by @rissband: Dec 4 2006, 05:28 PM
TSDuke Red
post Dec 4 2006, 05:35 PM

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QUOTE(@rissband @ Dec 4 2006, 05:27 PM)
thats what i call intelligence!!!
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Bugger, you're not being sarcastic right? tongue.gif
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post Dec 4 2006, 05:36 PM

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QUOTE(Duke Red @ Dec 4 2006, 05:35 PM)
Bugger, you're not being sarcastic right? tongue.gif
*
hahaha.. you tell me la.. tongue.gif
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post Dec 4 2006, 05:42 PM

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QUOTE(akRia @ Dec 4 2006, 05:25 PM)
shakehead.gif is this indirect refering to duke red that liverpoolfc player dive too?personally i dont think that is needed,duke red himself i think he too don't agree that gerrard should dive for that too. anyway, i think diving is part of the modern football,dive smart,but not dive frequently.this happen to most winger,for example c.ronaldo will *fall* down for quite some number of times in one game if you realise,anyway,this happens to most winger too.
*
brother biggrin.gif
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post Dec 4 2006, 05:43 PM

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Sorry, didn't mean it that way. I think I read the wrong thread and jump the gun a bit. tongue.gif

But..
Gerrard does it when you're desperate(which is a lot of times tongue.gif) and when he's on his charge mode. But he doesn't claim a penalty if its not given, only sometimes. Its hardly isolated incidents.

What I would term a diver is 0 contact=fall... or one that Pires did againts Portsmouth where he purposely kick the player to fall down. People stop when their shirt got pulled, and the refs give a foul... I see it's the same as when people fall down 'easily' when they get tackled. In both situations they can still go and run, but choose to stop/fall down. That's OK in my book. Unless of course someone put a hand on their back and they fall down like they been hit by a sniper. Ronaldo stop 'diving' last season or so(well, for ManUtd), even more so this season where he knows everyone will have their eyes on him. About last game, its a matter of opinions I guess. He attack people so fast that one nudge and he'll lose his balance.
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post Dec 4 2006, 05:48 PM

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QUOTE(Wan @ Dec 4 2006, 05:43 PM)
Sorry, didn't mean it that way. I think I read the wrong thread and jump the gun a bit. tongue.gif

But..
Gerrard does it when you're desperate(which is a lot of times tongue.gif) and when he's on his charge mode. But he doesn't claim a penalty if its not given, only sometimes. Its hardly isolated incidents.

What I would term a diver is 0 contact=fall... or one that Pires did againts Portsmouth where he purposely kick the player to fall down. People stop when their shirt got pulled, and the refs give a foul... I see it's the same as when people fall down 'easily' when they get tackled. In both situations they can still go and run, but choose to stop/fall down. That's OK in my book. Unless of course someone put a hand on their back and they fall down like they been hit by a sniper. Ronaldo stop 'diving' last season or so(well, for ManUtd), even more so this season where he knows everyone will have their eyes on him. About last game, its a matter of opinions I guess. He attack people so fast that one nudge and he'll lose his balance.
It doesn't matter if you're desperate to me. Then again, we are in no position to comment as we aren't under the same enormous pressure both the players and their clubs are under to perform. I was so freaking disgusted when Liverpool chose to sign Diouf because I have heard of his reputation as a diver and when I saw him play in the World Cup, I saw where he got the reputation. In an ideal world lah, I just wished that no one cheated and honour was something more than just a word. The world is changing though and maybe the new word for cheating is indeed gamesmanship.
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post Dec 4 2006, 05:53 PM

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QUOTE(Duke Red @ Dec 4 2006, 05:48 PM)
It doesn't matter if you're desperate to me. Then again, we are in no position to comment as we aren't under the same enormous pressure both the players and their clubs are under to perform. I was so freaking disgusted when Liverpool chose to sign Diouf because I have heard of his reputation as a diver and when I saw him play in the World Cup, I saw where he got the reputation. In an ideal world lah, I just wished that no one cheated and honour was something more than just a word. The world is changing though and maybe the new word for cheating is indeed gamesmanship.
*
thumbup.gif second that,spitting sliver already kinda disgusting,diving is the worse sweat.gif anyway,that when GH's era,now we forwarding to new era. a fair win of cause is good,but it wont happen often.mistake from referee,not-a-clean-play from the player,and other element does matter.anyway,its still football game,winning and losing is part of the game thumbup.gif
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post Dec 4 2006, 05:55 PM

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Bring video technology to clean those stuff up, and give heavy punishments to those 'blatant' divers. That's the only way to partly stop people cheating heh. What I hate most is when they got tackled, and then claimed they're injured. The physio came on and check on them for ages before the player finally is put on the stretcher and they carry him off.. but first carefully blanket the player first. The minute the stretcher is put down, the player magically got up and run back into the field. I swear some day I'll kill that Beto(I think, Benfica player, maggie hair) guy myself.
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post Dec 4 2006, 05:56 PM

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I sometimes try to understand why Europeans who come to the Premiership dive. I ask myself, if someone like Vinnie Jones flew in at me, would I want to be a man and take the contact knowing that I'll be screwed over?
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post Dec 4 2006, 06:00 PM

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last saturday was a diving day, diving session started at 8.45pm (42mins penalty) and end at 2.00am (19mins penalty), didn't watch the portsmouth vs villa game, so didn't know the 2 penalties involved any divers or not....lol


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post Dec 4 2006, 06:07 PM

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Just watch the Brazilian league... or other S.Americas games. They really do tackle people hard. Got away with them most of the time too. Both sides are as bad as each other.
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post Dec 5 2006, 01:55 AM

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how about if a player is able to avoid the contact but falls when he landed on the ground bcuz of imbalance. Is that a foul?

This post has been edited by O-haiyo: Dec 5 2006, 01:55 AM
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post Dec 5 2006, 03:08 AM

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in spanish league club can have up to 7 substitute ready on the bench . i think it would be good if EPL can allow the same number of substitute player . manager can have more option to change the game and stuff .
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post Dec 5 2006, 05:57 AM

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QUOTE(Halfhearted04 @ Dec 5 2006, 03:08 AM)
in spanish league club can have up to 7 substitute ready on the bench . i think it would be good if EPL can allow the same number of substitute player . manager can have more option to change the game and stuff .
*
wow...they change their subtitute rules like champions league game
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post Dec 5 2006, 05:57 AM

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-edited-
-double post-

This post has been edited by yhtan: Dec 5 2006, 05:59 AM
verx
post Dec 5 2006, 09:51 AM

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QUOTE(Duke Red @ Dec 4 2006, 05:56 PM)
I sometimes try to understand why Europeans who come to the Premiership dive. I ask myself, if someone like Vinnie Jones flew in at me, would I want to be a man and take the contact knowing that I'll be screwed over?
*
Actually i read a column by Guillem Balague from Sky Sports and this is what he had to say in response to a question by a reader about diving in Spain:
QUOTE
The simple fact is that players dive in Spain, they try to take advantage of the problems the referees have in not seeing everything. You talk about the Spanish authorities trying to stamp it out, but I think you're analysing it from an English point of view, where fair play is much further up the agenda. Generally people of northern Europe are stronger and bigger physically and if you try to take that on in football they will always win. In Spain we are shorter and smaller, so we cannot fight on the physical side of things. So, we try to do something different and that is take advantage of the limits of a referee. That's what Jorge Valdano has been saying about Argentina and the same thing applies to Spain, Italy and even Greece. The cultures of society basically say that for many decades, even centuries, people who have taken advantage but don't get caught are deemed socially successful. But that is definitely changing, partly down to the globalisation of football and the campaigns for fair play to prevail.

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post Dec 5 2006, 10:25 AM

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Off-balance striker committed no crime

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «



Alan Hansen's take on it.
TSDuke Red
post Dec 5 2006, 02:42 PM

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Size is relative. If they are all smaller in Spain as he suggests, then it will be 1 small dude against another, what is the difference? It's not about being tough as nails, it is about fair play and I do agree it should be further up the agenda like in England. When you speak of fair play, you are talking about all sports and not just football. Maybe Spain should include more players from the Basque region in their national team as I've heard they are a tough lot in general. The article sounds more like an excuse than an explanation to me.
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post Dec 5 2006, 03:01 PM

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QUOTE(Duke Red @ Dec 5 2006, 02:42 PM)
Size is relative. If they are all smaller in Spain as he suggests, then it will be 1 small dude against another, what is the difference? It's not about being tough as nails, it is about fair play and I do agree it should be further up the agenda like in England. When you speak of fair play, you are talking about all sports and not just football. Maybe Spain should include more players from the Basque region in their national team as I've heard they are a tough lot in general. The article sounds more like an excuse than an explanation to me.
*
Well it's not an excuse, it's just an attempted explanation by a respected Spanish jornalist wink.gif
And your Basque suggestion is ill-advised. If you watched Athletic Bilbao (a team so proud of its Basque roots that they refuse to recruit non-Basque players) against RM on Sunday u would understand what i'm talking about. The culture is different and diving is considered more of an artform than a serious offence. It's the same in countries like Italy, Portugal, Argentina, Brazil, etc. But with the globalisation of the sport there is more awareness now in those countries. Do i think it will stop eventually? Not a chance tongue.gif but there will be improvements in that regard.
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post Dec 5 2006, 03:36 PM

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QUOTE(verx @ Dec 5 2006, 03:01 PM)
Well it's not an excuse, it's just an attempted explanation by a respected Spanish jornalist wink.gif
And your Basque suggestion is ill-advised. If you watched Athletic Bilbao (a team so proud of its Basque roots that they refuse to recruit non-Basque players) against RM on Sunday u would understand what i'm talking about. The culture is different and diving is considered more of an artform than a serious offence. It's the same in countries like Italy, Portugal, Argentina, Brazil, etc. But with the globalisation of the sport there is more awareness now in those countries. Do i think it will stop eventually? Not a chance tongue.gif but there will be improvements in that regard.
*
So what you're saying that diving is no different in Spain or Basque? I understand he is a well respected journalist as I've seen his articles before but when he tries to rationalise why people there choose to dive, it just comes across as defending them rather than condemning them. Cheating is cheating regardless of what synonyms you may use for it.
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post Dec 5 2006, 04:26 PM

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QUOTE(Duke Red @ Dec 5 2006, 03:36 PM)
So what you're saying that diving is no different in Spain or Basque? I understand he is a well respected journalist as I've seen his articles before but when he tries to rationalise why people there choose to dive, it just comes across as defending them rather than condemning them. Cheating is cheating regardless of what synonyms you may use for it.
*
Ya that's exactly what i'm saying. And u can't blame him for not condemning them: he's Spanish! tongue.gif
That's the whole point. You consider it cheating as most of the ppl in England would (even i would myself) but the Spanish don't. And you can't just condemn a culture. It's just the way football has evolved in other countries.
And whether u dismiss his claims or not, Guillem does have a point that players with bigger builds tend not to go down so easily. Diving isn't a big issue in countries like Germany, Denmark, Norway, etc where the players are generally bigger.

This post has been edited by verx: Dec 5 2006, 04:29 PM
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post Dec 5 2006, 04:47 PM

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"Was there contact? No. Was it a penalty? Yes."

i personally actually find it to b pretty amusing that penalty can b given out even there is no contact.
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post Dec 5 2006, 05:14 PM

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QUOTE(Chrisky @ Dec 5 2006, 04:47 PM)
"Was there contact? No. Was it a penalty? Yes."

i personally actually find it to b pretty amusing that penalty can b given out even there is no contact.
*
was it an intent to bring the players down? YES...
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post Dec 5 2006, 05:16 PM

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QUOTE(@rissband @ Dec 5 2006, 05:14 PM)
was it an intent to bring the players down? YES...
*
I think the intent of the gk was to get the ball not to bring the player down...
And there is no way a pen should be given if there is NO contact. He dived. Plain and simple.
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post Dec 5 2006, 07:37 PM

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QUOTE(@rissband @ Dec 5 2006, 05:14 PM)
was it an intent to bring the players down? YES...
*
but still no body contact right? anyhow,the ball is in between the keeper and player,gk dive forward to catch the ball most of the time,intent to bring down players,it's up to each's judegement biggrin.gif
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QUOTE(Chrisky @ Dec 5 2006, 04:47 PM)
"Was there contact? No. Was it a penalty? Yes."

i personally actually find it to b pretty amusing that penalty can b given out even there is no contact.
*
QUOTE(verx @ Dec 5 2006, 05:16 PM)
And there is no way a pen should be given if there is NO contact. He dived. Plain and simple.
*
Yeah but if the ref thinks that the diver dived to avoid an intentional collision and therefore given the penalty, then I guess there's really nothing to argue about.
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post Dec 5 2006, 08:09 PM

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QUOTE(@rissband @ Dec 5 2006, 05:14 PM)
was it an intent to bring the players down? YES...
*
QUOTE(khelben @ Dec 5 2006, 07:57 PM)
Yeah but if the ref thinks that the diver dived to avoid an intentional collision and therefore given the penalty, then I guess there's really nothing to argue about.
*
can't agree that would justify the penalty given while no contact there, mates.

its like A made a sliding tackle toward B, B avoided it with no contact at all by jumped over, lost his balance, n fall on the ground on his own. so based on the logic there, A should get a card ?
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QUOTE(Chrisky @ Dec 5 2006, 08:09 PM)
can't agree that would justify the penalty given while no contact there, mates.

its like A made a sliding tackle toward B, B avoided it with no contact at all by jumped over, lost his balance, n fall on the ground on his own. so based on the logic there, A should get a card ?
*
Of course.

Hasselbaink once did a 2-legged tackle on, somebody I forgot and the dude jumped over him to avoid it. It was clearly no contact what so ever but Jimmy got a yellow card for that.

1999 FA Cup semi final between MU andd Arsenal. Roy Keane did a tackle on Overmars and he kinda jumped to avoid it but stumble instead. No contact but Roy got sent off for 2nd bookable offense.

Vierra tried to kick RVN but Ruud jumped back and Vierra got sent off.

If the intention's there then a foul should be given in my opinion. It's all up to the ref though.
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post Dec 5 2006, 10:01 PM

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it wasn't a dive. he was off-balanced tryin to evade the keeper. so it shouldn't be a penalty either. but the ref gave it, i'm sure all united fans will be happy to take that.
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QUOTE(Chrisky @ Dec 5 2006, 08:09 PM)
can't agree that would justify the penalty given while no contact there, mates.

its like A made a sliding tackle toward B, B avoided it with no contact at all by jumped over, lost his balance, n fall on the ground on his own. so based on the logic there, A should get a card ?
*
if the tackle is done in dangerous way, y not?
akRia
post Dec 5 2006, 10:47 PM

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sweat.gif let's think it this way,why a player should avoid a keeper when he has the ball in front of him or not? when near the keeper,push/kick the ball kao kao while the keeper dive to catch the ball with his full strength ..this is 50% 50% both side... laugh.gif
TSDuke Red
post Dec 6 2006, 01:55 PM

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In light of the number of foreign investors buying into the EPL, I thought this article was particularly insightful. Liverpool now appear to be the latest 'victims'.

QUOTE
Des Kelly: No heart among Chelsea's soul traders
10:14am 28th November 2006

They say one third of the world's cranes are currently being used in Dubai and I'm not going to argue, not if the view from my hotel room is anything to go by.

Everywhere you look in this Meccano city, new towers of steel, glass and concrete are racing to pierce the heavens. But despite the hectic construction and the lavish investment, Dubai is an artificial, forced creation, not an entity that has grown of itself.

"A fairly soulless place," is what Stamford Bridge chief executive Peter Kenyon said just before he arrived here. Only he wasn't discussing Dubai, he was talking about football's own boomtown enterprise, Chelsea Football Club.

Predicting world domination, as he so often does, like some caricature villain from an Austin Powers movie, football's resident Dr Evil explained why it would take a decade for 'the Chelsea brand' to overtake Manchester United.

"They didn't have a tragedy," said Kenyon. "They didn't have 10 years of unbelievable success in the Sixties which culminated in winning the European Cup. Chelsea didn't have the domination and success of the Alex Ferguson years. It hadn't got any of those. It was a fairly soulless place."

Yes, it can be inconvenient not having a tragedy to trade on. But nonetheless, it all raised the obvious question: Does the place have any more soul now? This is not a debate that applies exclusively to Chelsea, either.

It is relevant to all the clubs caught up in foreign takeovers and stadium expansions, and Aston Villa fans swapping their Doug Ellis Out posters for 'I love that Randy Lerner' T-shirts.

But let's start at Stamford Bridge, because they are the current poster boys for 'greed-is-good' football.

For when it comes to soul, some of my Chelsea-supporting friends still hanker for simpler times. Yes, they enjoy the present-day success, of course they do. They admire and revere Jose Mourinho's tactical acumen and thrill that some of the world's big names now pull on a blue shirt.

But, perversely, they take greater pride in the triumphs of the pre-Abramovich era; they believe those Seventies achievements had more heart, more character and identity; more soul in fact.

But no one can live in the past. Not when there are 'brands' to create. Twelve months ago, Kenyon said Chelsea would be bigger than Real Madrid or United by 2013. This week, he says they will be "internationally recognised as the world's No 1 club by". I'm guessing it will be 2015 next time.

He even tried to back up his prediction with some spurious figures produced by an 'independent marketing organisation' claiming Chelsea now had 3.8million fans in the UK and 20m more worldwide.

Since I doubt anyone sat down and counted them, it would be fairly safe to assume this 'independent marketing organisation' probably just chewed the end of their pencil after a long lunch and took a wild guess.

The boasts about a burgeoning fan base might also carry more weight if Chelsea didn't have quite so many empty seats for some Champions League games or had to place last-minute adverts in Lon-don's Evening Standard to fill them.

When I conduct my own less-than-meaningful survey in Dubai, a place that never hesitates to embrace wealth ahead of history, I can see lots of Manchester United and Liverpool shirts here, but no visible sign yet that Chelsea are making huge inroads into new frontiers.

Indeed, at the Soccer exconvention launch party on Sunday, some 500 people associated with the football industry, from Africa, America and across Asia, watched intently as the Premiership's top two clashed. When United scored, there was a loud roar from the room. When Chelsea equalised, it was met by the sound of canapés being chewed.

But let's get back to the issue of 'soul'. Clubs are changing, the game is transforming beyond recognition. We are no longer described as supporters; we are 'customers'. Yet, the real shoppers are the foreign investors raiding the Premiership, with one in five top-flight clubs now in overseas hands.

West Ham fans will be relieved their future has finally been decided, but is Iceland's Eggert Magnusson the right man to take the club on? Or is he here to make a fast buck before the 2012 Olympics hit east London?

What happens to Man U.S.A. under the distrusted Glazer Empire when Ferguson retires? Will Lerner become bored and head back to the Cleveland Browns after a couple of years of playtime here? And all the while Portsmouth are being passed around like a packet of cigarettes at an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting.

Yes, much has been gained by the influx of money. Many grounds are state-of-the-art arenas, security and safety are light-years away from the hooliganism infested days of the Eighties, but it is also worth remembering what has been lost along the way.

At Arsenal's shiny new Emirates Stadium last week, a season ticket holder friend found himself in trouble in the romantically named 'Yellow Quadrant'. He was told in no uncertain terms to keep the noise down. His crime? Talking.

This lack of atmosphere is not confined to the Emirates. Ferguson often urges United fans to raise the volume, while Mourinho asked of his own home crowd the other day: "Why don't they sing?" suggesting a singsong might even help them fight the winter chill.

The truth is, the game is cleaner, it's shinier, it's more bankable; the food is better, the seats are new and there's never any mud, not even in December. But it's not as real and although Kenyon derides the old days as soulless, it's actually the commercial theatre of today that lacks authenticity.

Has football lost its soul? I can't work out whether a global trade fair for the sport is the best or the worst place in the world to be asking that question.
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post Dec 7 2006, 02:50 PM

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An article that highlights the concerns of a Liverpool fan over the English Premiere League being just, the Premiere League.

QUOTE
You never...hold to tradition
By Frank Malley
December 06, 2006

THERE is a statue of the great Bill Shankly outside the Kop at Anfield with an inscription which reads: 'Bill Shankly. He made the people happy.'

So he did. With British players and coaches and a respect for traditional values in an era when the only thing foreign in English football was likely to be the club car.

How times have changed.

It is a fair bet that Shankly would not have had the warmest feeling about a group called Dubai International Capital closing in on a 450 million ($1.35 billion) takeover of his beloved Liverpool.

But when he studied the league table and saw Liverpool in fifth place, 16 points behind leaders Manchester United after just 16 matches, then cold reality would have dawned.

The Premiership is a vastly different ball game to the league inhabited by Shankly.

Of the four clubs currently above Liverpool, three of them, United, Chelsea and Portsmouth, are run by foreigners.

Another two, Aston Villa and West Ham, have recently been snapped up by foreign interests while Fulham remain under the control of UK-based Egyptian owner Mohamed al-Fayed.

But it is Chelsea and United whose takeovers, respectively by Russian Roman Abramovich and the American Glazer family, have set the tone for the Premiership.

The question for teams such as Liverpool, Arsenal, Tottenham and Newcastle is this: If they cannot beat them, should they join them?

It is simply no longer feasible to wave arms and rage like some footballing Canute against the ocean of money searching for a home in the Premiership.

Brian Barwick, chief executive of the Football Association, has already stated that the game's guardians have no power to prevent it.

And the government is hardly going to legislate to protect English football clubs from predators when half of London is owned by foreign money and when burgeoning British companies such as Abbey National, BOC, O2 and P&O are in foreign hands.

It is easy to see why Premiership clubs are such a prized catch. No other league is as profitable. None as exciting or glamorous.

Next season Premiership clubs will collect 562 m of television money. That's four times more than the German Bundesliga.

The Premier League rakes in another 170m or so from selling broadcast rights abroad, some 12 times more than the Germans.

The appeal to global billionaires is obvious, even if to men such as Abramovich it is tantamount to indulging an expensive hobby rather than a money-making exercise.

Of course there are dangers and there are those, myself included, who believe Abramovich and his bottomless pit has been the worst thing ever to hit English football.

I hate the way Abramovich distorted player wages and the transfer market at a time when football was threatening an outbreak of financial commonsense.

I hate the obsession with money and the fact that a domestic super league becomes inevitable as the gap between rich and poor expands.

I hate the way the career of 21 m Shaun Wright-Phillips has withered on the bench, the arrogance of manager Jose Mourinho and the absurdity of chief executive Peter Kenyon, who talks of football as a product, the club as a brand and the pursuit of 'world domination.'

But while Chelsea do not win friends, they have won two consecutive Premiership titles. The Stamford Bridge faithful seem happy enough with that.

Meanwhile, the fears of Manchester United supporters who protested so fiercely against Malcolm Glazer's takeover, largely on the basis of unsecured debt, have so far proved unfounded.

Sir Alex Ferguson continues to defy the critics with a new team and fresh ambition from a position six points ahead of Chelsea and a footballing country miles ahead of the rest.

Which leaves Liverpool and chairman David Moores with a stark choice. Tradition or progress?

No longer in English football do the two sit comfortably. Not when Liverpool need 80 m to clear debts and 250 m for a new ground to compete with the 75,000 capacity at Old Trafford and 60,000 at Arsenal's Emirates Stadium.

Stay as they are and Liverpool, historically the most successful club in Britain, would never again be the 'bastion of invincibility' which Shankly built.

Shankly, more than anyone, would have realised that was not the way to make the people happy.
I was going to post this in the Liverpool thread but this is an issue that concerns all clubs. What if these gazillionaires were to get bored and pull out? It would leave them with massive debts and possibly force them to go into administration. This may not matter to some fans who thrive purely on success. To someone like me however who truly values the traditions and culture created within my club, this is disturbing. In all honestly, I'd rather not have the money if it would mean my club retaining it's values and identity. I would like to be proud of my clubs success on the pitch but I would rather be proud that I am a loyal fan if I had to make a choice between the two.

Soulsareworthless
post Dec 11 2006, 07:28 PM

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QUOTE(Duke Red @ Dec 7 2006, 02:50 PM)
An article that highlights the concerns of a Liverpool fan over the English Premiere League being just, the Premiere League.
I was going to post this in the Liverpool thread but this is an issue that concerns all clubs. What if these gazillionaires were to get bored and pull out? It would leave them with massive debts and possibly force them to go into administration. This may not matter to some fans who thrive purely on success. To someone like me however who truly values the traditions and culture created within my club, this is disturbing. In all honestly, I'd rather not have the money if it would mean my club retaining it's values and identity. I would like to be proud of my clubs success on the pitch but I would rather be proud that I am a loyal fan if I had to make a choice between the two.
*
Abrahimovich just started a £500 million trust fund for Chelsea. He has ensured that for 10 years after his death there will be £50m available for transfers and wages each year.

Well, at least he's really commited to the club. Not like al-Fayed hangat-hangat tahi ayam with Fulham only.
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post Dec 16 2006, 06:33 PM

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TSDuke Red
post Dec 19 2006, 02:56 PM

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In a league where players from top clubs get the most attention, it was refreshing to come across an article such as this. I myself have been a long admirer of Jaaskelainen and often wondered why he is constantly overlooked by big clubs. It's surprising to note that he's now already into his 30's.

QUOTE
The Prem's Most Under-Rated: Jussi Jaaskelainen[SIZE=7]
Posted 14/12/06 16:08



When people debate the merits of a goalkeeper, the strength of the defence they play behind is a necessary consideration - but one that, like Britney Spears according to last week's tabloids, swings both ways.

Take Shay Given. Some will say that playing behind that comical Newcastle defence makes him look disproportionately good, because he has more to do than the likes of Petr Cech or Edwin van der Sar. Others will argue that he needs to be constantly at his best, aware that Titus Bramble is likely to give the ball to the opposition at the most crucial moment of the game.

I'm firmly in the latter group. But while the Newcastle number one is given (boom boom) credit for his sterling performances behind an often laughable back four, Jussi Jaaskelainen is not so lucky. People are quite willing to put his impressive form down to having a lot of shots to save, but it is rare that people speculate how good he could be behind a top-class defence.

The answer is 'very, very good indeed'.

Before I get a mob of angry Bolton fans furious at my casting aspersions on their defence, I should qualify that statement. The Trotters suffer from a chronic lack of full backs, yet all their injuries this season seem to strike in that position. The result is a side that has seen Tal Ben Haim fill in all over the place, Ivan Campo forced to come back and play in defence and even Craig Allardyce fill in at left back. Okay, I made that last one up. But you get my point.

Throughout this period of defensive turmoil, though, Bolton have conceded more than one goal just three times this season. Liverpool, Arsenal and Spurs, amongst others, have failed to breach the makeshift back line entirely. The one constant in the equation has been Jaaskelainen.

Leave aside the double penalty save against Blackburn that brought him briefly to the tabloids' attention this season, or the save - arguably the best the Premiership has seen - from Andy Cole in 2001 when Bolton won at Old Trafford. Jaaskelainen's most important quality, like all the best goalkeepers, is his consistency.

This is a man who has comfortably performed as well as Given, Jens Lehmann, Edwin van der Sar and Paul Robinson - all hailed at various points as the best 'keeper in the country - and has done so solidly for the last five years. But other than in his first season in the Premiership, when he was named as the goalkeeper in the Team Of The Season, he has never received the credit he deserves.

He has notched up over 300 appearances for Bolton as they've turned from a First Division side into a club who could mount a genuine challenge for a top-four finish this season. They couldn't have done it without him.

And he only cost them £100,000. Now that's a bargain.

Adam Fraser
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post Dec 19 2006, 04:00 PM

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IMO, Given still the undispute No.1 Keeper biggrin.gif
TSDuke Red
post Dec 19 2006, 04:15 PM

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The article does have some merit. Let's take the English national team as an example since most fans are more familiar with them. For fear of going back into the Jurassic Age, let's look back to 1990 when England qualified for the World Cup Semi-Finals. Back then a 40 year old Peter Shilton was playing out the remainder of his career with Derby County a pretty average side, before ending his career with Plymouth. His deputy, Chris Woods played for Sheffield Wednesday. David Seaman was probably the exception having played for Arsenal. David James played for an average Liverpool side before moving on. The list continues with the likes of Tim Flowers, Paul Robinson and Robert Green having put on the national team colours at some point. The majority of these keepers played for average sides when they were called up.
SUSHaunkiem
post Dec 19 2006, 09:28 PM

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the worst thing that ever happened to the EPL was privatising it to the TV whores .

Football is NOT about money , it is about heart.
TSDuke Red
post Dec 20 2006, 11:04 AM

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I agree but just look at how many football mercenaries there are now. Nowadays you get players refusing to train with their clubs unless they are allowed to leave for bigger, richer clubs. The most recent example would be Michael Essien who was finally allowed to leave. Money is definitely robbing the game of it's heart and soul. Loyalty can now be bought far more easily than in the old days.
Soulsareworthless
post Dec 21 2006, 09:11 AM

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Times change and football moves forward so money talks now. Without money we'll only we watching mainly local talent playing in their respective leagues? Wouldn't be too interesting would it?

This post has been edited by Soulsareworthless: Dec 21 2006, 09:12 AM
TSDuke Red
post Dec 21 2006, 11:12 AM

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Well that is the debate now isn't it? I hold firm to the belief that teams of a particular nation should at least have a core of local talent. I'm not going to be a hypocrite and say that Liverpool always consisted of English boys because at one point, they were all Scottish. The again, Scousers consider themselves Scousers irregardless of nationality. While we cannot have a team full of English players, I would like to see their core players consist of local lads.
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post Dec 21 2006, 05:34 PM

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I'm a Malaysian who lives in Selangor supporting a Spanish club located thousands of miles away. We're Malaysians supporting English clubs. In a sense aren't we the soulless ones to begin with? Then again Souls Are Worthless. biggrin.gif

Unless I'm supporting Selangor which I don't, I expect quality football when I wake up at 3-4am to watch Madrid. We already have so much racism and religious bias in Malaysia it's good to know on a football field who you pray to or what the colour of your skin is doesn't matter.

This post has been edited by Soulsareworthless: Dec 21 2006, 05:36 PM
TSDuke Red
post Dec 21 2006, 05:47 PM

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Well as you say, we are supporters and allegiance has sometimes nothing to do with nationality. I still support our country most recently while watching the Doha games but our football team as you say dishes out crappy performances each time. There are also other factors that contribute to why some of us aren't as patriotic as we should be but that is another issue all together. To an extent I suppose we are soulless as supporters of our nation anyway.

The reason I like a local core is because they generally play harder and with more heart. This is not an absolution of course. I just look at the likes of Carra and Stevie and wonder how we would be like without them. Warnock is by no means a youngster but he is another local lad that plays his heart out.
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post Dec 22 2006, 01:44 AM

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Of course players are prima donnas these days .

They will pick and choose which games and tournaments they want to put their best effort into , thereby degrading the EPL to a feeder tournament for the CL and cheating fans of a decent performance , which you only get in a few selected games that the players chose to play their hearts out .

thus , you have to watch 4 crap games before you get to a good one .

The problem is not about nationality per se , but TOO much money in the game , it spoils the players and robs them of pride of JUST playing and making it into the team .

Winning trophies means little to them beyond the 1st time , the money covers that .

Contrast that to the 80's , when money was good but not excessive , the overall standard was much higher , the EPL was really competitive .

teams like Forest , West Ham , Everton were all challenging for top 5 positions and gap between ALL of them was like 8 points , not like today when the top 4 is always the same .

There is a knock on effect also , money fag game attracts money fag fans , never ever kick a ball in anger - think that running 30 yards is a super human feat .

This then discourages the working class kid from playing because he does not see his peers as fans . without this bulk of talent , the local teams do down . And then local facilities are not encouraged and eventually they sold for " development "

20/30 years ago , most working class Chinese actually played the game and produced great players like Wong chun wah , Yip Chi keong , James wong .

I was inspired by chun wah to join the SCRC club , his old club , where I made the squad , but due to the above factors , now the club is gone sold off as " development ".

And please don't mix so called racism into football . If you don't like living here then you can always leave .

This post has been edited by Haunkiem: Dec 22 2006, 01:53 AM
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post Dec 22 2006, 02:27 PM

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How is patriotism linked to racism? Do enlighten me. As I said, that is a topic for another thread which is why I did not dwelve into it.

I don't know if you were being sarcastic but I've heard the line, "if you don't like it, you can just leave" to darn often. Leaving everything behind and starting over is just that easy eh? Perhaps if you were a 21 or 22 year old graduate. If you don't like this thread, you can just leave rolleyes.gif


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post Dec 22 2006, 05:52 PM

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You are too touchy , who said I was refering to you . Maybe you have something to hide .

I didn't mention patriotism , that has to be defined.

If things are really that bad for anyone , the best thing is of course to leave .

All that it's not that easy stuff is pondan talk . bottom line if it's not intolerable than people won't leave , then they have very little to complain except to try to boost their little egos .

Why should I leave this thread , I love it .
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post Dec 22 2006, 05:54 PM

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All here should read Bobby Robson's article in todays EPL mag in the NST.

Exactly on this topic . EPL is going to the shiets .
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post Dec 23 2006, 10:59 AM

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QUOTE(Duke Red @ Dec 21 2006, 05:47 PM)
The reason I like a local core is because they generally play harder and with more heart. This is not an absolution of course. I just look at the likes of Carra and Stevie and wonder how we would be like without them. Warnock is by no means a youngster but he is another local lad that plays his heart out.
*
Agreed, that's why I suppose most captains are local players.

QUOTE(Haunkiem @ Dec 22 2006, 01:44 AM)
Of course players are prima donnas these days .
And please don't mix so called racism into football . If you don't like living here then you can always leave .
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Please don't talk like Malaysian politicians. I will leave, but bear in mind I'm only 16.
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post Dec 23 2006, 11:16 AM

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doesn't matter if you are 16 or 61 .

politicians are politicians wherever you go , what makes you think they would be any different?
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post Dec 23 2006, 12:54 PM

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If I am to be be treated indifferently in a country, might as well be treated indifferently in a country where I can lead a higher quality of life.
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post Dec 26 2006, 11:31 AM

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QUOTE(Haunkiem @ Dec 22 2006, 05:52 PM)
You are too touchy , who said I was refering to you . Maybe you have something to hide

I didn't mention patriotism , that has to be defined.

If things are really that bad for anyone , the best thing is of course to leave .

All that it's not that easy stuff is pondan talk . bottom line if it's not intolerable than people won't leave , then they have very little to complain except to try to boost their little egos .

Why should I leave this thread , I love it .

It being tolerable doesn't make it ideal. Some may accept mediocrity and some won't Why can't you leave this issue alone anyhow? Totally wrong thread.

Ok I said it's not easy to migrate, so that must mean I talk like a pondan by your definition. I ask you now, do you really want to continue down this path of insults? Shall we talk with a little more maturity or shall we head down another road?
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post Dec 27 2006, 11:19 PM

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Pardew is alright. Infact I have some sort of respect for him. Like you said his enthusiasm is infectious and he may well transmit that to his charges.. But will it be too late for him to turn Charlton's fortune around? Christmas gone and new year is approaching and his team are in a perilous position. I think it will be a minor miracle if he does save Charlton.
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post Dec 28 2006, 10:22 AM

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Haunkiem: I've deleted some of your posts, please stop trolling
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post Dec 28 2006, 03:45 PM

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there is 1 more thing i would like to raise about diving.
if in the case where there is a foul on the player in the penalty box but the foul isnt hard enuff to make the player falls, n the player choose to dive in order to get the penalty.
Izzit consider guilty cz sumtimes referee will ignore it if he doesnt.

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post Dec 28 2006, 03:54 PM

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Grey area really. The general rule I think is that if there is contact, it's a penalty. In the EPL however is more physical and refs will be more inclined to award a penalty only when they feel there is sufficient contact.
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post Dec 28 2006, 04:03 PM

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QUOTE(Duke Red @ Dec 28 2006, 03:54 PM)
Grey area really. The general rule I think is that if there is contact, it's a penalty. In the EPL however is more physical and refs will be more inclined to award a penalty only when they feel there is sufficient contact.
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this also explains y they tend to fall so easily, even there is 70% chance they can score the goal but opt for a dive in stead.
TSDuke Red
post Dec 28 2006, 04:24 PM

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Players have a lot to lose nowadays as there is a much bigger amount of money involved. With the lifestyles they live, a career ending injury could prove to be devastating. There are also endorsement deals to consider. Winning is also big money for teams these days. In summary, the stakes have become higher and winning has become a necessity for the survival of clubs. All this adds up to players and teams wanting to win by any means.
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post Dec 28 2006, 04:31 PM

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QUOTE(hng @ Dec 28 2006, 04:03 PM)
this also explains y they tend to fall so easily, even there is 70% chance they can score the goal but opt for a dive in stead.
*
do u give a yellow card to a player who tripped over himself or slipped? ppl suggested bans or yellow cards for diving but is slipping diving? how u diffrentiate.....to be honest, i am all for artistic diving but patrick viera, steven gerrard, zakora are just laughable. and no i am not here to flame but its just too hard to seperate the cream from the crop in this case
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post Dec 28 2006, 04:35 PM

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QUOTE(kobe8byrant @ Dec 28 2006, 04:31 PM)
do u give a yellow card to a player who tripped over himself or slipped? ppl suggested bans or yellow cards for diving but is slipping diving? how u diffrentiate.....to be honest, i am all for artistic diving but patrick viera, steven gerrard, zakora are just laughable. and no i am not here to flame but its just too hard to seperate the cream from the crop in this case
As it is, the FA conducts their own reviews involving violent conduct before handing out punishment. Unless television replays are implemented, we'll have to rely of refs to call it as they see it. The severity of punishment handed out to divers however can be determined after a review.
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post Dec 29 2006, 06:07 AM

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i dun support the implementation of tv replays. It will disrupt the flow of the game, trust me. But i do agree that a review can be made after the game to determine whether the player is diving. and the panel must be someone neutral, not someone from the FA who has interest in certain clubs.

This post has been edited by O-haiyo: Dec 29 2006, 06:09 AM
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post Dec 29 2006, 06:38 AM

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nah lah , all wrong .

The law states a penalty can only be given if the there is illegal contact in the PA , not all contact is illegal . If so we would end up playing net ball , which suit some people . haha .

Also players nowadays don't give a shit even if they get injured , they get paid their contracts even it happens , why you see so much talk about " buying off a player contract before he can move " .

All he has to do is ensure that he or his agent gets a big fat deal for him , then he is set for life injury or not .

Win lose or draw don't really matter anymore so long as your contract is big . that's why you see so many lacklustre games .

This post has been edited by Haunkiem: Dec 29 2006, 06:39 AM
matty
post Dec 29 2006, 10:44 AM

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QUOTE(O-haiyo @ Dec 29 2006, 06:07 AM)
i dun support the implementation of tv replays. It will disrupt the flow of the game, trust me. But i do agree that a review can be made after the game to determine whether the player is diving. and the panel must be someone neutral, not someone from the FA who has interest in certain clubs.
*
replay or not, it will only took the fourth official seconds to look at it and inforn the match ref. so while waiting for all the player stop mocking the ref the result should be out d. there's nothing to do with delaying the game or disrupt the flow of the game. the flow of the game hav been distrubed with all the players surrounding the ref.
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QUOTE(matty @ Dec 29 2006, 10:44 AM)
replay or not, it will only took the fourth official seconds to look at it and inforn the match ref. so while waiting for all the player stop mocking the ref the result should be out d. there's nothing to do with delaying the game or disrupt the flow of the game. the flow of the game hav been distrubed with all the players surrounding the ref.
Agreed. Players waste seconds voicing their objections to refs during contentious moments anyway. While all this is going on the fourth official need only take 10 seconds to look at the replay, much like how we do at home. On the flip side, players will be asking for replays at each opportunity which will definitely interrupt the flow of the game. Maybe it should be like in tennis where each player is only entitled to contest a number of decisions. I'm pretty sure there is a place for replays, it's just the implementation that needs looking into.
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post Dec 29 2006, 11:12 AM

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my intention for replay to be use are only for those questionable goal and red card. coz this two action really does change the result of the game. those minor fouls just keep it like usual.
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post Dec 29 2006, 11:16 AM

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Contentious goal can be solved by having a chip embedded in the ball as has been proposed by certain parties. You then have sensors on either post and when the chip crosses the post, the sensors will go off signaling a goal.

What I mean is since the players know there are television replays, they will be more inclined to contest every moment, even if it appeared to be a clear cut foul. As I said, I agree with the logic behind having replays, it's all about how to to implement it so as to not disrupt the flow of the game.
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post Dec 29 2006, 08:25 PM

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TV replays for important points : goals or not , sending offs , goals not allowed due to close offside .
cashflowtips
post Dec 29 2006, 08:30 PM

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QUOTE(Haunkiem @ Dec 29 2006, 08:25 PM)
TV replays for important points : goals or not , sending offs , goals not allowed due to close offside .
*
I agreed with Haunkiem, it is already implement in NFL and several other top sports. No more bias referees. Sack Sepp Blater!!
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post Dec 30 2006, 12:30 AM

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i hope somebody who do think that today technology will help improve our beloved game will take on the FIFA presidente post. let's start praying now....
seydee
post Dec 30 2006, 01:19 AM

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I agreed that tv replay will greatly improve accuracy and fairer judgement. but I think at the same time it also reduce the spices of a game.

Controversial, doubtful and wrong judgement imcrease the tempo of the game and interest from spectator and viewer such as myself. It's where all the debate and judgement get started. All this tells why football is the most watched sports in the world. So unpredictable and so much ups and downs.

Besides by using trick such as diving open up a way for lesser team create upset. Remember the goal that gets in but just manage to parried out after it cross the line in the man utd and tottenham game. It still become a topic till now.
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post Dec 30 2006, 03:08 AM

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my idea should seriously be considered by FIFA.. biggrin.gif alright heres what i think..each team should be given 2 challenges each game..so when a contentius decision is made the coach of the team affected can throw down a red flag and challenge that decision..if the managers challenge proves to be right and the refrees decision wrong then the manager would not be charged a substitute but if a situation happens the other way around then the team that challenges will be charged a substitute..so instead of having 3 substitues the team that challenged the refree will have 2 subs..this will make the managers think twice about challenging the refrees decision even with the video replays and there will only be a max of 4 stoppages per game if both managers use all thier challenges..anyone can help me send this to FIFA? tongue.gif im hopeful(seriously)
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post Dec 30 2006, 07:04 AM

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TV replay they don't want because the refs now taking money by backhand .

the challenge idea I do like, then the big points can be examined w/o too much loss of flow. .
matty
post Dec 30 2006, 10:36 AM

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Too much betting spoiled the beautiful game.
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post Dec 30 2006, 10:58 AM

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not just betting , too much money spoil the players , now like a lot of people we know .

no quality but expect respect and to be paid ! jokers .
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QUOTE(Aztec @ Dec 30 2006, 03:08 AM)
my idea should seriously be considered by FIFA.. biggrin.gif  alright heres what i think..each team should be given 2 challenges each game..so when a contentius decision is made the coach of the team affected can throw down a red flag and challenge that decision..if the managers challenge proves to be right and the refrees decision wrong then the manager would not be charged a substitute but if a situation happens the other way around then the team that challenges will be charged a substitute..so instead of having 3 substitues the team that challenged the refree will have 2 subs..this will make the managers think twice about challenging the refrees decision even with the video replays and there will only be a max of 4 stoppages per game if both managers use all thier challenges..anyone can help me send this to FIFA? tongue.gif im hopeful(seriously)
*
Not a bad idea indeed. Doesn't slow the game down much and improves the quality of refereeing.
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post Jan 5 2007, 10:51 AM

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good idea u have there. are u going to forward it to FIFA?
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post Jan 5 2007, 11:34 AM

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QUOTE(seydee @ Dec 30 2006, 01:19 AM)
Controversial, doubtful and wrong judgement imcrease the tempo of the game and interest from spectator and viewer such as myself. It's where all the debate and judgement get started. All this tells why football is the most watched sports in the world. So unpredictable and so much ups and downs.
The contention to this is that because there is so much at stake for clubs financially today, an error in judgement could prove really detrimental to a clubs future. A last disallowed goal leading to just missing out of a European place can cost a club millions in potential revenue.
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QUOTE(williamlee_1985 @ Jan 5 2007, 10:51 AM)
good idea u have there. are u going to forward it to FIFA?
*
i dont know how to send it to FIFA.. tongue.gif imagine if it really gets approve by FIFA my name will be in the papers everywhere... biggrin.gif (dreams) serously can some of you guys here try to help me send my suggestions to ESPN or something so FIFA will take the suggestion more seriously..

This post has been edited by Aztec: Jan 5 2007, 12:08 PM
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post Jan 5 2007, 05:58 PM

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did u guys watch this week football focus. i heard that the English FA will try to FIFA using the TV replay for the EPL. wish them gd luck.
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post Jan 5 2007, 06:36 PM

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What's wrong with West Ham? They were flying last season, now with almost the same squad, they're at the bottom. The highly rated Mascherano can't even get a game. How good is he compare to Gilberto Silva(when did he learn how to score? 7 goals!)?
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QUOTE(matty @ Jan 5 2007, 05:58 PM)
did u guys watch this week football focus. i heard that the English FA will try to FIFA using the TV replay for the EPL. wish them gd luck.
*
use my system better la... tongue.gif
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post Jan 5 2007, 07:05 PM

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A fella on football focus (since football focus is getting crappier week by week maybe it isn't such a good source of info) says FIFA will consider removing the transfer window next season?

Wouldn't that just allow rich clubs to buy silver wear even more easily? I think the current system works fine. Don't fix something which isn't broken.
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post Aug 22 2007, 08:48 AM

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Here's an interesting article from The Times. A little long but insightful. I first thought of posting this on the Liverpool thread but after reading it, I feel it concerns all EPL clubs. When Jose Mourinho and Rafa Benitez brought up the issue of top sides having 2nd teams play in the lower divisions, it was met by a lot of objections not just amongst managers of smaller sides, but from fans and posters here alike. After reading this article, perhaps we'll realise that smaller sides are already paying for the benefit of our success.

It's a little long so read it when you have the time.

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

JuNz-V
post Aug 22 2007, 11:37 AM

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do u guys think that epl games are pre-fixed already?
by bookies?
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post Aug 22 2007, 01:14 PM

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I'm not going to speculate but I do believe corruption is prevalent in most places, it is only a matter of to what degree. In the past players like Hans Segers, Bruce Grobbelar and John Fashanu have come under investigation but it's probably less common these days amongst Premiership players, given how much they earn these days. Perhaps match officials are now the more 'economical' targets and it could explain why there have been so many bad decisions of late. Again, this is pure speculation but food for thought nonetheless.
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post Aug 23 2007, 07:14 PM

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QUOTE(Duke Red @ Aug 22 2007, 01:14 PM)
I'm not going to speculate but I do believe corruption is prevalent in most places, it is only a matter of to what degree. In the past players like Hans Segers, Bruce Grobbelar and John Fashanu have come under investigation but it's probably less common these days amongst Premiership players, given how much they earn these days. Perhaps match officials are now the more 'economical' targets and it could explain why there have been so many bad decisions of late. Again, this is pure speculation but food for thought nonetheless.
*
actually in my opinion, putting myself in their shoes (or should i say boots biggrin.gif ),
i wouldn't do it..
as i think getting title n triumph is a much better gain than accepting bride as easy money..
money can't buy u the championship..

madmoz
post Aug 23 2007, 07:42 PM

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Out Of Topic Alert!

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Added on August 23, 2007, 7:54 pm
QUOTE(JuNz-V @ Aug 23 2007, 07:14 PM)
actually in my opinion, putting myself in their shoes (or should i say boots  biggrin.gif ),
i wouldn't do it..
as i think getting title n triumph is a much better gain than accepting bride as easy money..
money can't buy u the championship..
*
Unfortunately, fame does not equal fortune. Only the EPL players and to a much lesser extend the Div 1 players get paid well... as you go down the divisions, they get paid no more than normal salaried profesionals which is pathetic considering that one serious injury and you're done for. Even if you (by some miracle, considering the way the game is played in the lower divisions) stay injury free, your career ends when you hit the late 30s. That's a whole 15 years less than other professionals.

Which is why many take up sport/physio degrees after they are finished. Was is Middlesborough Uni that was famous for this?

This post has been edited by madmoz: Aug 23 2007, 07:54 PM
kobe8byrant
post Aug 23 2007, 07:58 PM

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QUOTE(Duke Red @ Aug 22 2007, 01:14 PM)
I'm not going to speculate but I do believe corruption is prevalent in most places, it is only a matter of to what degree. In the past players like Hans Segers, Bruce Grobbelar and John Fashanu have come under investigation but it's probably less common these days amongst Premiership players, given how much they earn these days. Perhaps match officials are now the more 'economical' targets and it could explain why there have been so many bad decisions of late. Again, this is pure speculation but food for thought nonetheless.
*
Wasn't that the case in Italy and NOW in the NBA?
JuNz-V
post Aug 23 2007, 08:37 PM

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i guess, match-fixing scandals is now a really serious case...
wouldn't think it is still happening too often lately..

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post Aug 24 2007, 01:38 AM

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QUOTE(JuNz-V @ Aug 23 2007, 08:37 PM)
i guess, match-fixing scandals is now a really serious case...
wouldn't think it is still happening too often lately..
*
West Ham were caught match fixing last season... and they were fined 5.5m.

Sheffield United are unhappy with the EPL decision because they believe West Ham should have been docked points + relegation (like Juventus).

The case is still not over.


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post Aug 24 2007, 09:29 AM

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Errmm, no. No match fixing. Its the 3rd party ownership issue.
Ken
post Aug 24 2007, 09:41 AM

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QUOTE(TeckPeow @ Aug 24 2007, 01:38 AM)
West Ham were caught match fixing last season... and they were fined 5.5m.
*
doh.gif tevez issue is it ?


vreis
post Aug 24 2007, 10:48 AM

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QUOTE(TeckPeow @ Aug 24 2007, 01:38 AM)
West Ham were caught match fixing last season... and they were fined 5.5m.

Sheffield United are unhappy with the EPL decision because they believe West Ham should have been docked points + relegation (like Juventus).

The case is still not over.
*
Either you are a SU fan who sleeps through last EPL season still not over the issue or not a football fan as almost all that follows EPL know what the fine is regarding.
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post Aug 24 2007, 11:06 AM

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QUOTE(TeckPeow @ Aug 24 2007, 01:38 AM)
West Ham were caught match fixing last season... and they were fined 5.5m.

Sheffield United are unhappy with the EPL decision because they believe West Ham should have been docked points + relegation (like Juventus).

The case is still not over.
*
Huh? Was I watching the same league? Or was that someone decided to play pre recorded matches of all the games I watch? Mate, I think you got it horribly wrong here, like some of the posters above me said, everyone who watches football knows what the fine is for.

On another note, many of the bookies will claim that this or that match is fixed. I for one would not buy that, first of all, considering the amount they earn, it is harad to see them throwing matches. And someone mentioned that perhaps the lower league players would do it as they earn lesser, but then again, I reckon that the exposeure of the lower league is not as high, therefore lesser people will bet on it. I'm sure you've heard or seen many who bet on say Man U Vs Liverpool, but have you seen anyone who betted on say, Oldham Vs Hartlepool?
Another thing is that how do you control the incidents? I mean, for it to not look obvious, it has to happen at the right place and the right time. You can pretend to slip and let the striker pass, but what if the striker shoots like say Lampard, row Z all the time? Or what if you put out the foot to attempt to deflect it into goal and it went out for a throw in? Or how you try to bring down the striker to give away a penalty but results in a good goal saving challenge? Many many more. So I reckon while there are attempts to try and sell games, but it is harder than it seemed. Plus, seeing how some players who soldier on with their injuries or play through pain barrier (Luis Garcia in the merseyside derby springs to mind) makes me thought that it just can't happen.
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post Aug 26 2007, 09:20 PM

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QUOTE
WENGER HUMOUR: 'When I saw my Dutch striker step up to face Schmeichel from the penalty spot, my memories went back to Dennis Bergkamp and an FA Cup semi-final against Manchester United back in 1999,' said the Arsenal boss with a chuckle. 'Then Schmeichel saves again. I just hope I don't have to meet his grandson in 20 years time.'

biggrin.gif looks like wenger gonna be with Arsenal for another 20s year .. rejoyce gunner supporters ..

but watching kasper schmeichel save van persi penalty and him runing up field for a corner (witch he nearly score) really bring back memories .. watching delayed EPL game on TV2 laugh.gif
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post Aug 26 2007, 09:36 PM

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Lol TeckPeow is a legendary poster.

He post stupid things with stupid reasoning and stupid brains. stop posting lol
TSDuke Red
post Mar 6 2008, 10:39 AM

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I was going to give this particular incident the attention it deserves yesterday but my memory isn't what it used to be. The issue is Tim Cahill's goal celebration against. Portsmouth. Those of you that know me realise I am not his biggest fan and would love to rub his face in the dirt at every given opportunity.

After scoring one of his trademark headers, the **** proceeded to impersonate having is hands in cuffs, in honour of his brother who beat some poor sod up at a bar, leaving him partially blind. The ****'s brother was then sentenced to 6 years imprisonment for causing grievous bodily harm. Come on, sure he is your brother but to openly honour a deed like that? The selfish git obviously did not take into consideration how it feels to be on the other end of the stick and have a family member who is now permanently partially blind.

I may be biased and in fact I'll openly admit that I am. I hate Cahill and all that he stands for. I don't know him in person and for all I know he's a decent bloke but I'm making no assumptions here. I hate him.
Hevrn
post Mar 6 2008, 10:47 AM

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Cahill's a good player... I'll give him that. However, his celebration was distasteful and to me disrespectful to the victim and his family. Sure he's your brother but paying homage to someone who caused bodily harm to a fellow human is wrong. The poor fella now has to live his life partially blind.
Read that his brother was transported to an English jail from Australia. History and it's irony, haha
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post Mar 6 2008, 10:56 AM

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Inconsistency giving the FA a bad name

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http://soccernet.espn.go.com/columns/story...england&cc=4716

Read this on soccernet few days back and I think they did got a point there about the inconsistency in the referee & The FA especially.
Hevrn
post Mar 6 2008, 11:10 AM

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The FA is a joke. Aliadere gets sent off for a soft slap on the face, his appeal is rejected and lo and behold, he gets an extra match ban, with the appeal being called "frivolous" being cited as the reason why. Lampard kicks out at Boa Morte, gets sent off, appeals and his ban is rescinded. And on Gallas kicking Nani. The FA reviewed the replays and decided not to take any action. A game later, Gallas shows his unsportsmanship when his team concedes a late penalty, walks towards the tunnel and then kicks at an advertisement board, near the area where kids and senior citizens are sitting.
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post Mar 6 2008, 11:14 AM

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The thing which surprised me was why wasn't Mascherano sent off as well for the same rules which say a player cannot raise their hands which both of them did in that incident?

To me, they are contradicting themselves with that decision, no? unsure.gif

Gibson slams 'flawed' system

QUOTE
Middlesbrough chairman Steve Gibson has hit out at the Football Association for overturning Frank Lampard's red card but slapping an extra game on Jeremie Aliadiere's ban for a 'frivolous' appeal.

Chelsea midfielder Lampard won his appeal on Tuesday against his dismissal in the 4-0 victory over West Ham and will not now serve a three-match suspension.

Gibson agrees that Lampard did not deserve to be punished but has accused the FA of having double standards.

Aliadiere was given his marching orders for a gentle tap on Javier Mascherano and Gibson believes that if the FA rescinded Lampard's red card because his actions were not violent, the same should have happened with the Middlesbrough striker.

"I am trying hard to make sense of it all. It astonishes me. The whole system is flawed," Gibson told the Daily Star.

"It was the right decision by the FA to take away Lampard's dismissal as TV evidence showed there was nothing violent.

"But how can the FA say that was any different to that involving Aliadiere?"

The FA has defended its decision on Lampard, with a spokesman telling The Times: "The FA treats all cases on their merits.

"We would refute any suggestion that one club is being treated differently to another."


http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11680_3241656,00.html

This post has been edited by alien2003: Mar 6 2008, 11:51 AM
TSDuke Red
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QUOTE(Hevrn @ Mar 6 2008, 10:47 AM)
Read that his brother was transported to an English jail from Australia. History and it's irony, haha
laugh.gif Surely the Aussie's must have done that to take the piss! Prisoners of Mother England they say? hahaha.


Added on March 6, 2008, 1:03 pm
QUOTE(alien2003 @ Mar 6 2008, 11:14 AM)
The thing which surprised me was why wasn't Mascherano sent off as well for the same rules which say a player cannot raise their hands which both of them did in that incident?

To me, they are contradicting themselves with that decision, no?  unsure.gif
I agree. Mascherano should have been sent off according to the letter of the law. The problem with enforcement in any context, is consistency as is in the case here. That being said, patting someone on the face doesn't warrant a red card in my book. Are players today super fragile?

This post has been edited by Duke Red: Mar 6 2008, 01:03 PM
Hevrn
post Mar 6 2008, 01:48 PM

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Players and managers have been calling for more protection. Aliadere's "slap" on Mascherano would barely hurt a fly, let alone a fully grown man who visits the gym often.
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post Mar 6 2008, 02:49 PM

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QUOTE(Hevrn @ Mar 6 2008, 01:48 PM)
Players and managers have been calling for more protection. Aliadere's "slap" on Mascherano would barely hurt a fly, let alone a fully grown man who visits the gym often.
*
Perhaps they need to rewrite/redefine the rules on sending off for violent conduct? unsure.gif

For me, both Lampard & Aliadiere v Mascherano's incidents certainly do not classified as that. In fact, both could had just walk away with a verbal warning from the referee?
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QUOTE(TeckPeow @ Aug 24 2007, 01:38 AM)
West Ham were caught match fixing last season... and they were fined 5.5m.

Sheffield United are unhappy with the EPL decision because they believe West Ham should have been docked points + relegation (like Juventus).

The case is still not over.
*
k..these are my reactions

blink.gif ------> shocking.gif ------> shakehead.gif --------> sweat.gif ---------> doh.gif

they were fined for the third party ownership la dude!
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QUOTE(alien2003 @ Mar 6 2008, 02:49 PM)
Perhaps they need to rewrite/redefine the rules on sending off for violent conduct?  unsure.gif

For me, both Lampard & Aliadiere v Mascherano's incidents certainly do not classified as that. In fact, both could had just walk away with a verbal warning from the referee?
*
I just think the FA rules are screwed up. Bigger clubs can afford to blackmail the FA, while smaller clubs such as Middlesbrough could afford to do that... perhaps. I feel slaps like that is not anything near VIOLENT conduct. It's just FA wanting to show who's the boss... cool2.gif
m o m o
post Mar 18 2008, 01:45 PM

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Seen the Koumas red card incident...

I think the refs are more aware of tackles like these now...

BPL tough tacklers had better watch out, the MiB (or green, blue, pink, many colors nowadays) are out to get them, at least in the few coming weeks...

And then you see players escaping making dangerous lunges again...

Cisse, Eduardo...who's next?
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post Mar 18 2008, 02:17 PM

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QUOTE(m o m o @ Mar 18 2008, 01:45 PM)
Seen the Koumas red card incident...

I think the refs are more aware of tackles like these now...

BPL tough tacklers had better watch out, the MiB (or green, blue, pink, many colors nowadays) are out to get them, at least in the few coming weeks...

And then you see players escaping making dangerous lunges again...

Cisse, Eduardo...who's next?
*
u forget alan smith...
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The English Premier League is a good fun league to watch. But its FA sucks big time. That's all. TQ. nod.gif
dream5518
post Mar 18 2008, 02:34 PM

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QUOTE(gr8fr8 @ Mar 18 2008, 02:30 PM)
The English Premier League is a good fun league to watch. But its FA sucks big time. That's all. TQ.  nod.gif
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Thats makes me thought of the 2 yellow cards in chelsea match against liverpool...and the penalty given to chelsea...doh.gif...sigh...
gr8fr8
post Mar 18 2008, 02:48 PM

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if you want to watch an example of refereeing, watch the Serie A. May not have the best of commentaries, or "entertainment" of EPL, but still it is still a good football to watch especially when the big boys play. Spain referees are sometimes susceptible for the odd mistakes as well.
alien2003
post Mar 18 2008, 02:56 PM

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QUOTE(dream5518 @ Mar 18 2008, 02:17 PM)
u forget alan smith...
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Smith landed awkwardly which caused his injury, not by any tackle/player smile.gif
verx
post Mar 18 2008, 02:57 PM

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QUOTE(gr8fr8 @ Mar 18 2008, 02:48 PM)
Spain referees are sometimes susceptible for the odd mistakes as well.
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That's a huge understatement laugh.gif
Spanish referees have to be one of the worst in the continent tongue.gif
alien2003
post Mar 18 2008, 02:59 PM

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QUOTE(verx @ Mar 18 2008, 02:57 PM)
That's a huge understatement laugh.gif
Spanish referees have to be one of the worst in the continent tongue.gif
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Example: the Getafe's goal against RM? doh.gif rclxub.gif

I was surprised at the referee's decision for the goal to be allowed rclxub.gif
gr8fr8
post Mar 18 2008, 03:00 PM

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oh! my bad! tongue.gif just being considerate thats all laugh.gif
dream5518
post Mar 18 2008, 03:01 PM

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Not sure...but i think La Liga referee give cards easily...:swt:

This post has been edited by dream5518: Mar 18 2008, 03:03 PM
verx
post Mar 18 2008, 03:01 PM

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QUOTE(alien2003 @ Mar 18 2008, 02:59 PM)
Example: the Getafe's goal against RM?  doh.gif  rclxub.gif

I was surprised at the referee's decision for the goal to be allowed  rclxub.gif
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To be fair there were many decisions that went our way over the course of the season as well. But the decisions in general are so inconsistent (and at times so daft) that you really never know what you're gonna get from a Spanish ref laugh.gif
dream5518
post Mar 18 2008, 04:31 PM

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QUOTE(verx @ Mar 18 2008, 03:01 PM)
To be fair there were many decisions that went our way over the course of the season as well. But the decisions in general are so inconsistent (and at times so daft) that you really never know what you're gonna get from a Spanish ref laugh.gif
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they give out cards too easily...maybe they are aware but overdoing it?

 

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