Referring to this sale: http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopic=358631&hl=X800

Ok in reference to that sale, I have stated that the card has no warranty and sold as is. Guaranteed non DOA.

Ok I sent the card in the box in which it came in. I did not wrap the card but it was all cushioned with the plastic bags around it. It was only moving very little.

So I told him to SMS or PM or MSN me before putting in the card and starting it up. So that I can teach him how to set it up and check the voltages. When I got the MSN from him that day, he told me the card is not working and he put it in his girlfriend's computer already. He said there was heavy artifacts. So I asked him why he didn't contact me before he started it up? He said he is contacting me now because of problem now. So ok.....I asked him to re-seat the heatsinks with AS5 or Ceramique and check whetehr the core might be cracked. He checked.....and then do not have any thermal paste. And then he asked me what temps I got with it, I said mine was 20C on the LCD temp reader. Well he kept on saying temp in his room is always 18C, and so our cards should be the same. But when he webcammed with me....I saw the LCD readout was 26C - when his computer is OFF!!!!!!!!!! So I really suspect he fried something.

Ok then I asked him, does he have a multimeter? He said no. So I asked him to buy or borrow one and get back to me so that we can check the voltages in case it was knocked around and gone haywire. He said ok, and I told him I am going out for lunch for 3 hours and I will be back later and left the MSN conversation.

I came back and checked my MSN messages. To my horror, he has written a long message accusing me of sending him a faulty card AND being irresponsible for the things I sold. I was so pissed and frustrated. I shot back at him and we kinda argued for a while.

So in the end because of frustration I kinda agreed that I will pay him his money back.....minus shipping. But only after he checks the voltages on the card and test it out. Do you think it is fair? OR should I just ignore this.

1. I tested the card in my 875P-T with an Intel 660 processor before it was shipped to Malaysia. Working condition...no artifacts!
2. He might have ran too much current into it without checking the resistance on the pots. And moreover he did not contact me before firing up the card. Which I did make clear in my other conversation.
3. He does not have any knowledge about overclocking and is putting the card in his gf's computer. He should have known better to stay off custom made stuff!

I really need some constructive feedback on this dispute. I really don't know what to do. Thanks in advance guys......

This post has been edited by kcnyc: Nov 8 2006, 03:25 AM

Here goes a John Viper modded card....

Well, one of the questions which should be asked is... Do you have any idea what you're buying in the first place?

Well, first off, kcnyc did posted every single detail about his card on his post and I am sure everybody who passes by and see the thread will know it's not some sort of normal card. Definitely modded to be doing some serious overclocking.

In my opinion, kcnyc is FREE to choose whether he wants to refund it or not, due to the fact that a buyer should really learn about his product before buying it. Furthermore, the thread starter did mentioned that the buyer should contact him in the first place before setting up the card. Pots can be accidentally knocked off during shipment and overvolt the card when it's hooked onto the comp. Therefore, I am highly convinced that in this case, the buyer should be clear of what he is buying before pointing fingers at anyone.

Looking throughout the story, I myself don't see a reason why threadstarter should refund, unless out of courtesy.

Hello.

When I got the parcel and opened it, the stuff in there were all shattered around. KC forgot to mention in his post that the cd was badly broken, both the plastic bags wrapping the card and cd were ripped off, and when asked about it, he said it had to be the shipping that caused it to be that way.

And looking at the goods in the box, the only thing that can cause the cd to be broken and ripped off the plastic casing is the graphic card itself, since the rest of the stuff in there are just cables and wires. And the cd was placed below the graphic card.

What I did when I got the card was just hooking it up on the pc and turn the pc on. Nothing else. He did mention earlier that he'd be there if I had anything to ask about the hooking up the card. But just like any other pc users here, putting in a graphic card doesnt need a genius to do so right? So I just hooked it up. He for once didn't mention anything about having to have a multimeter and measure the voltage or whatever before putting it on.

Then there were artifacts (like what happened to normal faulty graphic cards). So I talked to him about it and he said it's because of the temperature difference. KC said it's because of the temperature difference that makes it that way, that I needed to alter the voltage from what's already set cause of the climate in Malaysia.

I contacted the modder himself (mr viperjohn) and asked him about the situation and said the temperature diff wont cause it to be this way. And 26C doesn't show any sign of it has been fried or whatsoever like claimed by KC.

Then KC kept saying it might be the voltage, it was altered because of the knockings and whackings that happened during the shipping.

And it has to be some serious knockings for it to cause the cd to be broken to almost 3 parts and ripped off the plastic casing.

I talked to him about it and he said I should report and claim from Fedex, which I did. But Fedex doesn't hold responsibility on broken goods, especially when it's not packaged properly. And he said the card is not on warranty from him so I have no say on it. But, the last time I checked, the card has to come to me working, not unworkable like this one.

I don't agree with KC when he said he packaged the goods properly. Because everything was just put in plastic bags and dumped in the box. If they only moved very little like he claimed, then it wont cause the cd to be broken to three parts and and ripped off the plastic casing. (direct quote from fedex: u can't expect us to be responsible for your broken cups if you just dump them all in a big box without being seperated by polistirine or such). So yeah..

KC said my "limited knowledge of modded cards" are the ones that dont make the card work. So I told him I would bring the card to some of the senior members of LYN forum that know a lot about it, if my knowledge wasn't enough. But he over and over again asked me not to because he said "they don't know anything just like you, trust me".

Well guys, I wont say much. There was nothing wrong with the thermal paste, or anything. It was all there.

BTW KC, WELL DONE. YOU STOPPED ME FROM REPORTING YESTERDAY, AGAIN AND AGAIN. AND SUDDENLY U REPORTED.

Oh yes guys, I wanted to post a report yesterday, together with pictures of the broken stuff, and the packaging from Fedex. But he asked me not to. And also, asked me not to let these senior members from LYN to take a look of the card.

I am done. Thank you for reading guys.

This post has been edited by jamban_awam: Nov 8 2006, 06:31 AM


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OMG I told him to report it guys, I encouraged it to him. He said it will be TOO SLOW and he wanted to resolve it. That is a lie guys. Jas please post out conversation logs. Please post it and you guys will see how many times I told him to report it. First of all he said that I was respected in the forum and you guys will side my side of the story. That was his reason for not posting. I say go ahead and encouraged him to post it. If I had a lousy excuse, would I even ask or encourage him to post it? I have nothing to hide, but what he said about me asking him not to post is an all out LIE!

Now how should I package it? I put it in the same box that it came with and with bags over it. What else you want? Custom molded foam boxes? CD pecah does not mean videocard pecah! Its not as simple as 1 + 1 = 2! I asked him to check the core......he said it was not cracked.....and he did not have thermal paste. I wonder how he put back the heatsink withtout it after wiping the core and see that it isn't broken? Makes you wonder doesn't it?

He said the thermal paste was all there. But I told him to re-seat the heatsinks and re-apply the thermal paste. From his words, you know he does not even know that he has to re-apply thermal paste after he takes out the heatsink! Of course it is still there.....I put it there!

This post has been edited by kcnyc: Nov 8 2006, 05:03 AM

Mr KC, can u tell me what could cause the cd to break to 3 parts? It's stabbed at the center by something hard. And it has to be the graphic card, cause the graphic card plastic is ripped too, just like the cd plastic . And as u said, there's nothing else that could possibly cause it but the card cause thats the only hard AND heavy thing in there and it's situated just on top of the cd.

This post has been edited by jamban_awam: Nov 8 2006, 05:20 AM

When you contacted me yesterday afternoon about the modded graphic card issue i also suspecting it was the voltage issue as a modded computer hardware is really really sensitive and it must be handle with care....

He mention that you should MSN or SMS him before putting in the card, I am sure there is some special instruction that he needs to give you in order to make the card work like i said its "MODDED" one and its not an ordinary piece of computer hardware that you buy from the retail shop.

As for why the cd crack is because something is putting on top of the graphic box and the cd hit by the heatsink thats why the cd is cracked....

Anyway I dont think he is reporting about the issue, he is looking for opinion on what he need to do in this thread....

This post has been edited by sup3rfly: Nov 8 2006, 05:28 AM

I confronted him after he posted his reply above:

KC !!! says (4:12 PM):
why dont u answer the question.......
jaswarren83@hotmail.com says (4:12 PM):
what question?
KC !!! says (4:12 PM):
did I tell u to post in the forum about the dispute?
jaswarren83@hotmail.com says (4:12 PM):
you did dude and the next thing you said try and make it work 1st
KC !!! says (4:12 PM):
yeah make it work 1st
KC !!! says (4:12 PM):
but I did encourage it
KC !!! says (4:12 PM):
u liar!
jaswarren83@hotmail.com says (4:13 PM):
KC why would i want to find an enemy?
jaswarren83@hotmail.com says (4:13 PM):
I'm lying?
jaswarren83@hotmail.com says (4:13 PM):
you're
jaswarren83@hotmail.com says (4:13 PM):
leave it to the forum kc coz that is what you wish
KC !!! says (4:14 PM):
I am lying?
KC !!! says (4:14 PM):
about what?
KC !!! says (4:14 PM):
about what?
KC !!! says (4:14 PM):
what did I lie about?
jaswarren83@hotmail.com says (4:14 PM):
then why are you calling me liar

I posted the full conversation of my confrontation with him. You guys can download it.......you guys look thru and then decide who is lying in the LYN court room!

This post has been edited by kcnyc: Nov 8 2006, 05:21 AM


Attached File(s)
 Jaswarren.txt ( 4.6k ) Number of downloads: 51

Again plastic break you wanna return the whole card ar? The CD break you want to return the whole card? You guys can see that he has not mentioned anything referring to the card BREAKING in anyway. Nothing lose or anything. It was packaged real good. The card was heavy, it might have ripped its plastic and broke the CD becuase of the sharp parts of the heatsinks, but is it ground to say the graphic card is broken?

If it was broken, there won't even be a picture of your windows logon or your POST screen dude. And moreover...artifacts......caused by high overclocking OR high voltage or HEAT! Voltage and heat is related!

This post has been edited by kcnyc: Nov 8 2006, 05:29 AM

**** There, this is what we decided yesterday.

This post has been edited by jamban_awam: Nov 8 2006, 06:46 AM

Yeah like I said we kinda agreed, but the agreement is all off now - since u lied about the reporting part. We let the people on LYN decide. Please post the top part of the conversation where I told u to report the situation to the forum please? Please post it and show me which part which I tried to stop you from reporting it.

You guys should read from the beginning of this conversation where I was accused of being irresponsible for the card because I did not answer his MSN messages. Even though I said I have to go out for lunch now and be back in 3 hours! LOL

This post has been edited by kcnyc: Nov 8 2006, 05:52 AM

I don't have it. I just saved the part where u said u wanted to settle it cause it's important. Why don't you put the whole chat log? I don't mind. Including the ones you forbid me from letting the senior members to have a look at the card.

I didn't bring you any trouble. I paid you 5 mins after I said I'd buy the card from you. And all I was asking is a working graphic card.

KC, it's not about the cd or plastic. It's about WHAT KNOCKED IT THAT HARD TO MAKE IT BREAK. Which was the graphic card, given IF THE CD REALLY DID BREAK ITSELF WHEN WAS IN THE SHIPPING LIKE YOU PROPOSED (which u asked me to make a refund from fedex), but I doubt the graphic card @ the heatsinks @ the fans attached could break a cd that bad. Collision impacts work both ways bro. If the cd could get broken like that, the "thing" that knocked it must have got some serious damaged too. So it's either the graphic card (or the stuff attached) collided so strongly with the cd (??????) or it broke itself by some miracles cause KC specifically said that the cd wasn't broken when he sent.

This is really frustrating and honestly KC, I am getting tired of it. I will just leave this to you and your courtesy to decide on this matter.

I will contact your friend and do what we have decided on the chatlog I posted on the earlier post. Which is to let him check the card and if it's confirmed broken, then I will leave it to him.

It's up to you to keep your words or otherwise. No hard feelings bro. We already went through it yesterday.

Have a good day.

PS: I'd appreciate it if you could censor my email address on the chatlog for my privacy as I have censored the number or anything that would break anyone's privacy on my chatlog. Thank you.

This post has been edited by jamban_awam: Nov 8 2006, 10:41 AM

1. About the cracked CD.
I dont know how can it can be cracked, since CD are damn hard to crack it anyway (try to crack a unuse CD you have, then you will know how tough to crack a CD). But, Result = cracked.

2. About the packaging.
If for me who wape it. I will oso make it that way. Why? It just a couple of fans which carried only few grams of weight. Do you guys think that 2x 6cm + a 4cm fan can damage on the card? Yes? No? up to you guys to decide.

Let's try in this situition. Put a plastic waped card into a shoes box. Then, put a 6cm fan into it. Do you think that the 6cm fan can damage the card? I dont think it can even capable to ben a single capacitor!

3. About the Artifacts
Artifacts mostly cause by faulty core/ memory. Which leads to the fact of :
(i) The core/memory cant run on the frequency you set.
(ii) The temp on the core/memory was too high until forced the artifacts to show up on screen.
(iii) Too much voltage supplied to the core/memory, where the core/memory cant handle it anymore.
(iv) The core/memory damaged, due to over voltage.
From what you guys said the card is running fine at KC pc, which cut off the fact #1. The card also running @ 26C (under unknown condition) which also cut off the fact #2. So, what left is just cause #3 and #4.

4. Voltage Checking
Since this card sold as moded card. Dont you guys think that the owner MUST voltage checking by using DMM before running the card? cause this is NOT a normal card where you can plag and play into a system " Buyer responsible to test it before run it? Seller responsible to supplied DMM for buyer? Think it off you guys.

Evogenix

Im seriously wondering how in the world the cd got cracked in that manner. If the cd can be cracked inside the box, im wondering what would happen to the graphic card. Could it be they dropped it violently and screwed up the card?

Honestly, im just wondering how in the world did the CD ended up like that. I think that's the main question here, there are alot of reasons can be pointed out about the artifacts.

I also share evogenix's point where its not a plug and play card. So alot can go wrong there.

That's your word against his now, as i see it, you now claim( i will say claim as there's no evidence of him being a liar from the chat logs) that he lied so the deal is off. He has evidence that you agreed to refund it, now where's your claim?

This post has been edited by XaVieRGizmo: Nov 8 2006, 11:58 AM

Well the 26C condition was when the PC is off dude! So it must have been running at higher than 26C.

And isn't it weird that such a hard impact hit the box, but the paper box nothing wrong?????? Hmmm.........

This post has been edited by kcnyc: Nov 8 2006, 12:48 PM

Dude if u still remember ur physics...
Pressure = Force /Area

The edges of the heatsink has a very small area we all know. Meaning the smaller the area is then the Bigger the force will come.
Such sharp edges frm the heat sink would not need a hard time to break a Plastic disc.
If like u claim that the card is the cause of the CD to crack then try to find for any bent caps.The cd is below the card as u stated. so meaning the only thing that can cause the cd to crack are those cap/transistor legs below the card.
Is it possible for a cap/transistor legs behind the card to do such damage to the disc? U figure it out urself...

This post has been edited by Windy87: Nov 8 2006, 01:05 PM

He said I stopped him from reporting it to the dispute center here in LYN. But I didn't - I encouraged him to report it heavily! And he admitted I asked him to report it in that chat i posted above when I confronted him after he posted his first reply to this thread. If you missed the part:
KC !!! says (4:12 PM):
why dont u answer the question.......
jaswarren83@hotmail.com says (4:12 PM):
what question?
KC !!! says (4:12 PM):
did I tell u to post in the forum about the dispute?
jaswarren83@hotmail.com says (4:12 PM):
you did dude and the next thing you said try and make it work 1st
KC !!! says (4:12 PM):
yeah make it work 1st
KC !!! says (4:12 PM):
but I did encourage it

Seriously why would I challenge him to post his chat log if I had something to hide? Asking for trouble meh? I do not have the chat log with me as I don't keep it. But he conveniently do not have the first part of his chat log, but the later part about the refund - HE HAS!!! You mean he record half and don't record half? Quite some C and B story right?

The first part of the conversation was him accusing me of not answering his MSN messages despite me telling him I have to go out for 3 hours and there is nothing he can do without a multimeter. And then I shot back at his remarks when I got back. All the accusations from him - irresponsible, sent him a faulty card or something that does not work out of the box. This was all in the first part of the conversation and he has no multimeter or thermal paste to even test and re-apply the thermal paste after ht took out the heatsinks to check for contact and cracks.

It is a custom card, you have to tweak or change the voltage and test everything to be sure it is the voltages are safe before using. Do you leak test before you use a watercooling setup? Do you check the pots resistance and turn them down before you fire up your modded mobo? These are things that someone who bought a heavily vmodded hardware should do! And the problem is, he was being a smart alec and put in the card and fired it up - despite my continuos warning of not firing up the card before he MSN, SMS or PMs me. I would have asked him to test out the pots and turn it down before firing it up. My voltage in my environment might not be right for Malaysia's environment! Buying a heavily modded card not knowing what the hell it is supposed to do and not asking for help is just asking for it! Why did he buy the card? I really don't know........as the price was not very cheap and it had no warranty.

There is no way the CD can even reach any caps, here is why - the heatsink is so HUGE! It blocks and protects the the whole card againts impact. If anything hits the card, the impact will affect the heatsinks 1st. There is no bent heatsink fins or broken heatsinks. So the CD has nothing to do with the card being broken. As Evogenix said, it is probably voltage problem which also means heat!

Moreover I just cracked open a CD. It is damn easy to make the crack.....from the sides....no....from the middle - very easy. I just broke one. And if you look at the pics he put up, cracks is from the middle of the CD. And what has a cracked CD got to do with a graphic card being broken? Its artifacts, not like it is not displaying! That is already one clue that it is not the card that is broken, its the configuration and voltage!

He does not know overclocking or what ATiTool is. I don't know why he bought the card.......

This post has been edited by kcnyc: Nov 8 2006, 02:03 PM

EMAIL FROM MODDER, VIPER JOHNS @ JOHN HILLIG

Since "I know nothing about overcloaking or what ATItools are"; I seeked help from the person that knows and can do it the best.

THESE ARE WHAT I GOT FROM MR JOHN HILLIG, THE MODDER OF THIS POOR CARD. I WILL POST UP THE PRINT SCREENS OF HIS EMAIL DOWN HERE AND ALSO QUOTE IT.

KC CLAIMS THAT:

1) ME POWERING THE CARD WITHOUT CHECKING THE VOLTAGES FIRST MADE ME BLOW THE CARD UP.

From Mr John Hillig 4th email, he said "based on what Craven has said to you it is a damn good bet he ripped you off and the card was junk when he sold it. The voltages do not change just because it was shipped to you. Once they are set that is that. Also you can not check the voltages without powering up the card so that statement by Craven about the card failing because of you powering without checking first is pure bull shit. So is his statement about the card being fried because the LCD reads 26C with the PC powered off. 26C would be normal ambient air temp in your area without any conditioning"

So KC, does that make it clear to everyone?? I DID NOT BLOW THE CARD BY TURNING IT ON.

And even if I had to alter the voltages I still HAD TO TURN IT ON. The voltages can't be checked if it's not fired up. I reckon people who know how to overcloak should know this well.

There are some other answers and explainings to questions/claims that have been brought up in this thread in the email attachment below. So check it out guys!

I don't want to do it this way, bro. But I am really not impressed I got blamed for whatever that's happened. Which obviously now wasn't the cause why the card behaved like that.

Again, all I've wanted is just a working graphic card. Nothing more than that.

Adios.

This post has been edited by jamban_awam: Nov 8 2006, 11:56 PM


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not looking good for u craven.

You bloody check the resistance on the pots! Turn it down just in case it is off, that was why I ask u not to fire it up 1st. Cannot check the voltage does not mean you cannot check the resistance on the pots before you turn it up. Turning the pots to the max resistance will make the voltage to stock or very close to stock. Please relay the message to John.

And can you believe that until now this jamban_awam guy still does not want to check the voltages or the resistance on the pots? Or even want to see whether they are over the limit...........why do you think?

Why don't u send me the card back jamban_awam and if I fixed it, you pay shipping both ways? Now you do not even know whether it is working or not and keep on accusing people of sending u a broken card. I am extending you my fixing service here. If it is broken and I cannot repair it I refund u the money minus the shipping. Very fair what.....thats my offer. Take it or leave it.....since u do not have a multimeter or the skills to fix it. I will try to do it.....I will also make a video of it....if it works just pay up for the shipping. If not........I pay u back minus shipping...........

John Hillig knows me as KC. I don't know why you use someone's email address as someone's name. LOL

This post has been edited by kcnyc: Nov 8 2006, 05:05 PM