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 How easy is it for condo committee to cheat money?

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SUSic no 851025071234
post Jul 7 2015, 04:41 PM

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QUOTE(cherroy @ Jul 7 2015, 04:37 PM)
Account needs to audited every year, you can't just take the money out without any reason, or transfer to any individual account.
It is a CBT offence if simply take a public money (management fund) into personal use.

Auditor will easily find out when audit the account time.

But only buying engage with a specific contractor/company or cronyism, buying expensive etc is the grey area which should be aware of.
Adopting open tender process, openness during committee meeting etc are several good way to reduce such a grey area.
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Who will be the responsible to audit the condo account? The is committee liable to some regulation? Cos from current situation the committee can just ignore and not do any audit
cherroy
post Jul 7 2015, 05:02 PM

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QUOTE(ic no 851025071234 @ Jul 7 2015, 04:41 PM)
Who will be the responsible to audit the condo account? The is committee liable to some regulation? Cos from current situation the committee can just ignore and not do any audit
*
Normally it is external auditor, just like ordinary company.

MC is liable to any sue if there is any misbehave.

If current MC is not doing a proper job and convey an AGM due, owner can complain to COB and COB can empower other owner to convey an AGM.
aurora97
post Jul 7 2015, 06:05 PM

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QUOTE(peri peri @ Jul 7 2015, 04:22 PM)
unless you are immune to jail, you can go ahead to cheat those funds.
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the last chairman, we try to initiate criminal case against him... took us 2 years until we pressure the branch IO from bukit aman.

QUOTE(jinsailoo @ Jul 7 2015, 04:27 PM)
in malaysia every one can immune to jail, as long as you have enoght kopi
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I second the kopi o part cause the X person was rumoured to make a funny request, which led to delay in investigation.

QUOTE(peri peri @ Jul 7 2015, 04:37 PM)
i dont dare to try.
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never try never know but than again better don't try. people actually went after the chairman, his house kena painted red. one committee member's car got extra special treatment (all cermin pecah and door kemek).

QUOTE(cherroy @ Jul 7 2015, 04:37 PM)
Account needs to audited every year, you can't just take the money out without any reason, or transfer to any individual account.
It is a CBT offence if simply take a public money (management fund) into personal use.

Auditor will easily find out when audit the account time.

But only buying engage with a specific contractor/company or cronyism, buying expensive etc is the grey area which should be aware of.
Adopting open tender process, openness during committee meeting etc are several good way to reduce such a grey area.
*
The modus operandi, both account and auditor are in the pocket of the chairman.

If the item of contention is agreed upon by all committee members and recorded in the minutes, the contention no longer exist and becomes legitimate.

open tender is the best but the tender committee must have technical experience. I was part of a pre-liminary interviewing team, was quoted Rm 1m for repainting job, my colleague did some rough calculation and knocked it down to RM 700K. All of the contractors quoted more or less 1M +. So careful with open tender as well and best do itemized tendering.

QUOTE(ic no 851025071234 @ Jul 7 2015, 04:41 PM)
Who will be the responsible to audit the condo account? The is committee liable to some regulation? Cos from current situation the committee can just ignore and not do any audit
*
It's the duty of Dev, JMB and MC to have the accounts audited and have a copy of the audited account file with COB.

See:
section 14 (Developer), 26 (JMB) and 62 (MC) of the Strata Title Management Act

Failure:
Maybe liable up to 3 years imprisonment or fine of up to 250K or both.

QUOTE(cherroy @ Jul 7 2015, 05:02 PM)
Normally it is external auditor, just like ordinary company.

MC is liable to any sue if there is any misbehave.

If current MC is not doing a proper job and convey an AGM due, owner can complain to COB and COB can empower other owner to convey an AGM.
*
to add:

If condition is serious enough, ask COB to instruct JMB/MC to hold EGM.



poemex
post Jan 9 2018, 06:17 PM

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Hi May i have the answer of the old question , DO the JMC has the rights/power to amend house rules without AGM /EGM?

cherroy
post Jan 10 2018, 10:04 AM

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QUOTE(poemex @ Jan 9 2018, 06:17 PM)
Hi May i have the answer of the old question , DO the JMC has the rights/power to amend house rules without AGM /EGM?
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There is no mention the any house rules set must be through AGM/EGM in the strata title act 757.

Strata title act 757, 70 (by-law) aka house rules
http://www.federalgazette.agc.gov.my/outpu...TA%20757-BI.pdf

QUOTE
A copy of additional by law made by management corporate under section (2) and amendment of addition by-law for time being in force, certified as true copy under the seal of management corporation with the Commissioner within thirty days of passing special resolution by the management corporation approving the additional by-law


It just said it needs a special resolution being approved by MC.

But mostly and commonly, additional house rules especially those may affect greatly one are done through AGM/EGM to avoid any dispute in the future.
honkkydorry
post Jan 18 2018, 02:40 PM

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QUOTE(poemex @ Jan 9 2018, 06:17 PM)
Hi May i have the answer of the old question , DO the JMC has the rights/power to amend house rules without AGM /EGM?
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My apartment just recently concluded its AGM and during the session, there were motions to amend some house rules. What I heard from one of the JMB committee is that any changes to house rules must be voted during AGM. He mentioned this is in accordance to Strata Act but I cannot remember which clause he cited. I don't think JMB can just simply anyhow change house rules without the owners' consent.

This post has been edited by honkkydorry: Jan 18 2018, 02:40 PM
Hongch
post Apr 17 2024, 02:52 PM

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QUOTE(aurora97 @ Jul 7 2015, 10:36 AM)
Actually all this problem arise because of the indifference of owners, AGM/EGM also don’t attend and leave it to “certain people” to run the management. The rot normally starts slowly with minor inflated claims, after that the amount gets bigger and bigger. Since no one query, the opportunity for wrong doing grows bigger day by day.

This is proven, as our auditor went into investigate item by item (not forensic type of audit), the claims get bigger and bigger, the reason for the claim also get more and more ridiculous. (example: night club expenses in Penang, kononya have to entertain some bomba people cause they creating some problem, when condo is in KL).

Also, another account normally will be affected is the sinking fund.
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Yes, very true.

If owners do not attend AGM, mc with bad intention to eat money will manipulate management fund

QUOTE(aurora97 @ Jul 7 2015, 10:50 AM)
See 2(5)/(6) of Schedule 2 SMA.

Actually that is the right way of getting around the problem.

The law is quite clear. Cannot 2 years consecutively become Chairman, Treasurer or Secretary.

So this year Chairman, next year Treasurer, year after become Secretary and rotate around like musical chair, shouldn’t be a problem. Worse become committee. Committee can sit up to 3 years.
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Here is a true story in a condo, husband and wife pakat with each term of chairman to manipulate
maintenance fee while husband is not the owner, the worst scenario both husband and wife are not
in committee team but both control whole condo like samsixg.


This post has been edited by Hongch: Apr 17 2024, 03:00 PM
Hongch
post Apr 17 2024, 03:06 PM

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QUOTE(HELLO HELLO @ Jul 7 2015, 11:06 AM)
condo side income.. carpark rental, venue/function room rental, shop rental, bbq area rental, car wash fee...ada apa lagi?
provide unit cleaning service? rent and sale service? or macam japan punya robot hotel. use robot to manage.
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One more side income is to charge motorcycle parking lot rental fee.

Each motor parking lot charge rental RM 20 per month, and need to collect 3 month
in advance. This means every 3 months need to pay RM 60 in advance. This is to increase
financial burden for motorcycle owner, and also to lower monthly rental revenue for owners.

So to save this RM 20 per month, many motorcycles park in the car parking lot,
either park behind the car, or park in front of car.

Every time when go out or come back, need to move car or motorcycle just like tandem parking.

This condo is very famous in KL.

Attached Image Attached Image

Attached Image Attached Image

Attached Image

Malaysia's first breaking record, motorcycles also need to
pay parking fee inside condo, some more is RM 20 per month, and
need to pay every 3 months fee (RM 60) in advance.


This post has been edited by Hongch: Apr 17 2024, 06:48 PM
Hongch
post Apr 17 2024, 08:06 PM

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Now motorcycle owners who do not want to pay for RM 20 monthly parking fee
for a motor parking lot, they park motor in their own car parking lots like
tandem parking mad.gif

Attached Image Attached Image
Hongch
post Apr 20 2024, 04:43 PM

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QUOTE(aurora97 @ Jul 7 2015, 10:21 AM)
How to be a Chairman 101.

Rule 1: Never pocket maintenance fund into your own account.
Rule 2: inflate prices of service.
Rule 3: always take indirect money from vendor.
Rule 4: if you need to (in contravention of rule 1), you can buy using your credit card and tell the committee that you wanted to collect points (make sure it is in minute). Use the reward points convert into shopping voucher.
Rule 5: make sure bank statement and cheque book is kept in your house.
Rule 6: hire your own ma chai (crony) to become your accounts and auditor.
Rule 7: request mini-mart/restaurant to share half of their profits with you or get kicked out and then you can set up your own business.
Rule 8: you can buy and make claim from JMB/MC at “inflated price of course”.
Rule9 : make sure you pay your staff fat increment and bonus to shut them up.
Rule 10: repeat 1 to 9.
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The person who managed SL condo now is the previous chairman in 2018,
he is not the owner, this means even he does not own any property in the
condo until now, he is still managing condo together with his wife.
His wife is the owner.

But both are not MC committee members.

Complained to CXB KL many times, but CXB does not bother.

CXB will forward all complainants (condo owners) info including the complaint letter to MC,
then MC post the complainant's names and units number to public inside condo to insult
complainants.

If send email to CXB to complain these husband and wife, CXB will disclose
email IP address to MC, the MC post this complaint matter on notice board.

This condo chairman gives all power to these couples to manage this condo,
one of the reasons I think is because these couples dare to do something
that nobody dare to do.

Husband busy to do unnecessary costly renovation, wife controls maintenance fee inside
MC office.

Attached ImageAttached Image

This post has been edited by Hongch: Apr 20 2024, 05:02 PM
Hongch
post Apr 20 2024, 05:26 PM

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These couples and MC used maintenance fee to buy many extra paint
to paint condo, then use left over paint to charge residents

Attached Image Attached Image

These couples and MC do many renovation no need approval from residents.
Hongch
post Apr 20 2024, 05:42 PM

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QUOTE(aurora97 @ Jul 7 2015, 10:50 AM)
See 2(5)/(6) of Schedule 2 SMA.

Actually that is the right way of getting around the problem.

The law is quite clear. Cannot 2 years consecutively become Chairman, Treasurer or Secretary.

So this year Chairman, next year Treasurer, year after become Secretary and rotate around like musical chair, shouldn’t be a problem. Worse become committee. Committee can sit up to 3 years.
*
There is a grey area, they can pakat with each term of chairman.

Can they resist this temptation?
250 condo unit x RM 300 maintenance fee = RM 75000.00 per month drool.gif

Excluding side income from renovations, parking (especially motor parking fee),
condo buying and selling commission and many more.

With this money, they can pakat to anybody including who is willing to provide
full service like complainant's info and IP address.

These couples have been ruling this condo since 2018.
They even bough new car and one condo unit with cash.
Can get rich very fast devil.gif
Hongch
post Apr 20 2024, 05:57 PM

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QUOTE(cherroy @ Jul 7 2015, 04:37 PM)
Account needs to audited every year, you can't just take the money out without any reason, or transfer to any individual account.
It is a CBT offence if simply take a public money (management fund) into personal use.

Auditor will easily find out when audit the account time.

But only buying engage with a specific contractor/company or cronyism, buying expensive etc is the grey area which should be aware of.
Adopting open tender process, openness during committee meeting etc are several good way to reduce such a grey area.
*
This is simply say only.

In reality, CBT will not involve, CBT will ask you to contact CXB.

Once you gaotixx CXB, you can do anything you want in the condo.
This is exactly what happening now.

Account audit just simply put signature and stamp only.
Hongch
post Apr 20 2024, 06:07 PM

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QUOTE(cherroy @ Jul 7 2015, 05:02 PM)
Normally it is external auditor, just like ordinary company.

MC is liable to any sue if there is any misbehave.

If current MC is not doing a proper job and convey an AGM due, owner can complain to COB and COB can empower other owner to convey an AGM.
*
This depends on which CxB.
Some CXB are clean and responsible to do the job.

CxB can onkly give advice to MC only, but no legal action to sue, according to CxB...

If want to sue MC, residents can sue MC to housing tribunal or court, then MC will use
maintenance fee as legal fee while resident will use their own pocket money.




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