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> Aircon Discussion V3, Home Appliance

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Jason
post Jun 12 2015, 03:28 PM

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QUOTE(coolkwc @ Jun 11 2015, 08:39 PM)
today the ME service man told me i still can turn ON my aircond, but won't be at its peak performance. So just now when i back home i turn ON the aircond, the air is not as cold as expected, but still better than nil...after 10 minutes, you know what, WATER START TO DRIP OUT FROM MY INDOOR UNIT AND WET MY FLOOR.

Awesome bastard, YOU ARE NOT GETTING EVEN A SINGLE ITEM INSTALLED CORRECTLY. thumbup.gif
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Should start sharing who is the bastard... so other people don't fall victim...

And I think we should also list down good air con man...and share.. we need to keep the good ones in business.
Jason
post Jun 21 2015, 12:34 PM

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QUOTE(broken_heart @ Jun 21 2015, 11:19 AM)
ME and Pana which one is more recommended ? I'm in dilemma now...:-(
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Panasonic inverter Econavi if you're concerned about power consumption but not cold.

Daikin GA if you want maximum cold, plenty service, cheap spare parts.

ME I dunno. It's expensive and spare parts I have no clue.

I would choose Daikin GA.
Jason
post Jun 22 2015, 12:17 PM

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QUOTE(cherroy @ Jun 22 2015, 10:11 AM)
The one doesn't realise the mechanism within youself, despite pages and pages and numerous of time other explaining.

Another wrong statement.

It is gas R-22 phase out, not non-inverter.
Non-inverter can work work in R410a gas as well, if manufacturer decided to design the non-inverter to work with the gas, air-cond just need a refrigerant to work with.

It is not inverter must use R410a, or non-inverter must use R-22, only they can work.
Refrigerant function is to "transport" the heat from the indoor to outdoor only.

Inverter and non-inverter is just about how compressor works.
Inverter use DC to control the compressor rpm, while non-inverter using AC, which cannot control the rpm. 

Non-inverter is not banned, it is R-22 will be banned in the future.

Inverter does save electricity and work at lower power consumption, but it depends on what is the condition of the room.

That's why no manufacturers give accurate number how much inverter can save (they can only advertise save as much as 30% or 50% with a * behind,
because the saving variable depended on the room condition itself, which vary from one and another.
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You're wasting your time trying to explain to him. He basically ignored the part you said about the undersirable scenario there would be no savings between inverter and non inverter. He just keeps spouting half truths.

To summarize, very simple. Look at Papparich, Old Town, those standalone shop lot ones. In their case there would be no savings from inverter air con as the doors are wide open. Cool air will just escape to the atmosphere. The air con would be working 100%. There will be no savings as the LOAD is 100%.

In a sealed environment, such as a room with doors and windows closed, inverter may give you savings.

Likewise if you turn on the air con for only 3 hours or so, it doesn't make a significant difference since inverter and non-inverters would be working 100% to quickly bring the room temperature down.
Jason
post Jun 26 2015, 03:14 PM

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QUOTE(kelvinfixx @ Jun 25 2015, 10:22 PM)
Panasonic econavi aircon ok? Salesman and airconman recommend me. Is it quiet and safe electricity?
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Quiet, and super saving electricity.

Not cold only (compared to Daikin inverter, Panasonic non-inverter, York non-inverter). I won't buy ever again.
Jason
post Jun 27 2015, 10:06 PM

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QUOTE(Mrmr @ Jun 27 2015, 06:56 AM)
Can recommend the cheapest aircon sell in market nw,just need simple function and most cheap price will do,install in worker office only

Or second hand but look new also can
Any expert here please help

Thanks a lot
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Hisense 1HP, RM599 sold by Lazada. rclxms.gif
Brand new.
Jason
post Jun 27 2015, 10:38 PM

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QUOTE(kimsim @ Jun 27 2015, 10:16 PM)
good meh so outdated  rclxub.gif
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Good thing not cheap.
Cheap thing not good.

Good and cheap.. slow slow wait.
Jason
post Jun 29 2015, 02:50 PM

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This is not Lazada support post. But yes you will get the air con. Bear in mind it could be from different suppliers. No installation however it's just delivered to your door.

All from Lazada
Attached Image
Jason
post Jul 2 2015, 12:04 AM

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QUOTE(mghong @ Jul 1 2015, 09:53 PM)
i going to make my 2nd batch order.

1HP for guestroom , prefer non-inverter since noone is coming hahah
1.5hp for 1st family hall , i dont expect to open it for more than 2 hour because most time people all stay downstair.

1.5hp for living hall . this unit also backup to support my 2hp livinghall(main) ,

1) What is your suggestion which shall i take inverter or non-inverter.
2) i see Pana and MIt non-inverter also use new gas r4xxx. should i stay with new gas.
3)both living and family hall unit are for short and need quick cool , any brand to recommend for now ?
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1hp guest room no need to think, get Hisense RM619 from Lazada habis cerita.
1.5hp no more than 2 hours, on daily? Daikin non-inverter, base model.

Don't take inverter since guest room seldom use, and 1st family hall only 2 hours..by the time the room cool down you also turn off already.

Backup unit also take non-inverter, take the Daikin also lor. Easy.

For your use case, no need inverter. Buy inverter for your scenario really idiot.

EDIT:

user posted image

If you look at graph, assume T2 is 2 hours, for sake of discussion lah. Both inverter & non-inverter will work at max capacity to cool down the room temperature rapidly (if you DO NOT want the room to cool down as fast as possible, buy Panasonic Deluxe Inverter air con).

Non-inverter and inverter both have max btu cooling rating. Regardless inverter or not, if both are 9000btu/hr, they should both cool the room of the same size within the same amount of time. So no such bullshit as "inverter" is cooler. In fact, due to the way non-inverter works, the non-inverter will overshoot your desired temperature (depending on when you turn it off). So assuming you turn it off at T2 the room would have been cooler with the non-inverter unit.

This post has been edited by Jason: Jul 2 2015, 12:14 AM
Jason
post Jul 2 2015, 10:43 AM

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QUOTE(kimsim @ Jul 2 2015, 07:48 AM)
Pana inverter from 1-1.5hp still much slower than others, if compare to Daikin GA inverter.

Nowadays most non inverter were packaged with new gas R410a should be same amount of cooling with inverter model, just without comfort level, due to on & off after the temp. reaching, but inverter will reduce the compressor rpm speed n fan speed too.

Anyway my friend still told me the fan aluminum coil is the most important to keep cold.

Some like slighly higher fan n noisy but not cold as fast.
Some like quiet and feel like no wind noisy but the cooling amount is slighly higher than noisy design.

Due to aluminum coil thickness was slighly thicker than others.

To compare from ME Starmex design was quiet operate but the cooling amount is slighly stronger than Pana factory setting for must be at least use 2 stop fan speed then can be feel the strong cold air n cooling amount, but the noise wise for sure is noisy.
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Other than Panasonic and Daikin GA which other manufacturer package their non-inverter models with R410a? ME & MHI?

I know Sharp, LG, Electrolux, Midea, Hisense, Samsung don't have as of now. Their non-inverters are still on R22. So who is the "MOST" you talking about here?
Jason
post Jul 3 2015, 12:25 AM

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QUOTE(Benster124 @ Jul 2 2015, 05:40 PM)
Need help.

I have a new house under reno. I bought non inverter Panasonic deluxe R410a 1HP aircond. So when contractor ask me whether its inverter type, I told him no. Then now He is saying the pipe already pull for non inverter type, so cannot use R410a, but he can fill R22 gas to fill into my aircond which is supposed to use R410a.

Can this be done??
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Your contractor is a noob, not professional and totally irresponsible. You better double triple check his work. All the best to you.


Jason
post Jul 3 2015, 09:52 PM

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QUOTE(calvin_ng @ Jul 3 2015, 01:10 PM)
I can confirm savings of 50% from non inverter to Inverter

Here my bill (Operation time Daily 7PM to 8AM)

Non Inverter (Panasonic Envio 1hp) set at 25deg: RM240

Inverter (Panasonic i-AutoX Inverter 1hp) set at 23deg : RM140

Total Savings of RM100

Other electrical unit running at home

1: Aquarium Chiller 1/10hp on 4ft tank set at 27deg
2: Aquarium light 4xT5 operation daily 11am to 11pm
3: Fridge (Mitsubishi) 24hr x 7 x all year round
4: Ceramic stove and HOB (Weekends only)
5: Water heater with pump (daily 2-4 times usage)
6: Cordless VAC - DC62
So yeah 50% savings maybe more...
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Usage pattern quite similar to mine, in excess of 10 hours. And yes, Panasonic Inverter have to set lower temperature setting versus non-inverter air con. Your findings is same as mine.

Do you feel any difference in terms of how fast the room cools down from when you turn it on?

QUOTE(nanan75 @ Jul 3 2015, 02:55 PM)
Im contemplating changing to inverter also as my normal Daikin ac (2hp and 1hp) contributes to ard RM300 bill.

The RM240/RM140 is actual bill rite?  Not just from the AC..
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Take into consideration that he on the air con in excess of 10 hours.. if 2 hours only, don't expect to see huge difference.
Jason
post Jul 3 2015, 10:05 PM

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QUOTE(coolkwc @ Jul 3 2015, 10:02 PM)
I guess not only Panasonic aircond, basically all inverter have to set lower temp versus non-inverter in order to get the same coldness, not becos inverter is less colder, just that the non-inverter cut off point is lower than what u set. In non inverter, if u set 25'C, it might cut off @ 23'C, and turn ON again when rise to 27'C, so the 'average' temp is what u set, 25'C.
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Agreed.
But I can also attest to my personal experience that Panasonic Inverter is terrible in coldness in comparison to Daikin non-GA Inverter. Same room, same 1HP.

I was so pissed off I wanted to rip the Panasonic Inverter off the wall and throw it out the window.

My mom also say...why this air con so hot. lol.
The other Panasonic and National non-inverter in the house is cold.


Jason
post Jul 4 2015, 07:40 PM

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QUOTE(calvin_ng @ Jul 4 2015, 11:55 AM)
Why i set mine to 23deg is cause i use econavi

If you read the manual the ac will run at 23deg and when low sunlight temp increase by 1deg and when you sleep low activity it will increase another 1deg so total when sleep it will increase to 25deg but before sleep it around 23 to 24deg

Want fast cooling turn on iautoX it is so called turbo mode
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That's if you enable Econavi mode. I don't use Econavi and its still not as cool as other air cons.

Some people don't have the air con and have absolutely no clue what we're talking about. rolleyes.gif

This post has been edited by Jason: Jul 4 2015, 07:41 PM
Jason
post Jul 5 2015, 02:56 PM

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QUOTE(calvin_ng @ Jul 5 2015, 12:41 AM)
Use iautoX mode for fast cooling... Also know that inverter temp is more accurate vs non inverter...  So set 1 or 2 deg lower in inverter and still give you 50% savings...  Ignore what the remote temp setting just set the number that give you the best comfort...  Its just number... Hahaha...  I found out my prefer temp setting is

Econavi ON,  23deg, fan full blast,  fin in auto,  dimmer ON,  nanoe ON

iAutoX ON,  25deg,  rest all Auto

Comfort Mode ON,  23deg, fan full blast,  fin in auto,  dimmer ON,  nanoe on
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Mine slightly older model than yours, no iAutoX function. I just know turn on air con, set 23C and turn on powerful mode, still not as powerful as York Cooling King L. rclxm9.gif
Jason
post Jul 6 2015, 11:03 PM

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QUOTE(calvin_ng @ Jul 6 2015, 10:14 AM)
York cooling king has higher consumption cause Compressor bigger... but dont like the quality... degrade very fast after 2yrs of use...

if not wrong Panasonic is the 2nd lowest power consumption for the compressor the first is LG if not mistaken... maybe this effect the cooling capacity as naturally compressor is smaller compare to the rest...
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I think the Panasonic Inverter has power savings due to the way the Econavi and the air con is programmed.... Without a doubt, the power saving works. Just not cold enough for me.


QUOTE(coolkwc @ Jul 6 2015, 10:32 AM)
Simply said, Pana cooling capacity is lower primarily due to cut cost, period.

Cooling quality is not solely depends on compressor, it also depends on the quality of the condenser, cooling coil, arrangement/density of the fin, with the latter component is much more important in cooling role than the compressor alone.
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False. Panasonic non-inverter air con still very cool.


QUOTE(silentsunami @ Jul 6 2015, 06:15 PM)
Which model u bought? i'm planning to buy panasonic inverter aircon also
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What's your priority? Power consumption or cooling?
If you are more concerned about power savings than cooling, then buy Panasonic great choice.
If you are more concerned about cooling than power savings, then buy the Daikin GA inverter.

But if you are concerned about power, use fan lah...

QUOTE(coolkwc @ Jul 6 2015, 10:16 PM)
Sorry to say, Pana and Sharp were the struggling company at the moment, especially Pana, the group is too huge, they step into too many sectors. But ask yourself, which area/sector Pana is the no.1 now? Heater? We know Joven and Alpha. Washer? We know Electrolux. Display? You know Sony, Sharp, Samsung. Fridge? We know sharp, Toshiba, LG. I only can name Panasonic in my 1st mind for ceiling fan (although alot of complaint for their remote and Bayu series) and stand fan, what else? It present in all categories, but the performance is not outstanding, and the price is premium. Until now you already can guess why Pana group record a highest financial lost in year 2013 since the Matsushita group established. Pana can survive today is mainly due to the strong foundation built by 'National' brand during 1980'-2000' era in Asia region. Reliability basically buried together with the National brand already. My father was the one who strongly support this brand during that time, that's why my hometown now still consist a 30 years old National 1HP aircond, 33 years old National fridge, 35 years old National Cassette Radio, 20 years National heater, almost 40 years National rice cooker and all these items were still perform the daily job well (Except aircond rarely open).
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I just bought Panasonic water heater, and a Rubine water heater at the same time. Without a doubt Panasonic is better quality and better constructed (need to remove cover to install). You can see the internals yourself.

And I also bought a Panasonic Inverter fridge last year. Power saving was evident as well.

I will definitely recommend Panasonic for non-inverter air conditioner, since they have R410a ones and not overly expensive. The National 1HP and Panasonic 1.5HP i have is super cold.

Jason
post Jul 7 2015, 02:24 AM

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QUOTE(silentsunami @ Jul 6 2015, 11:35 PM)
Buy inverter sure because of power saving feature. Now latest inverter aircon no need 7-8hours in order to save energy?

Fan sure got one, impossible open aircon 24x7x365
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Save power but not cold. What for? I'll definitely buy inverter for my usage, but not Panasonic inverters.
Of course, compared to most people, I'm damn hot. We all have different tolerance for temperature. I cannot tahan panas.

Just don't cry and say not cold after you buy Panasonic Inverter. rclxms.gif
Jason
post Jul 7 2015, 03:19 AM

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QUOTE(leonhart88 @ Jul 7 2015, 03:00 AM)
you must be fat bro
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Yup. Better than being ugly like you. Least I can diet.
Jason
post Jul 10 2015, 12:28 AM

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How about a quiz.

100 sqft room. 1HP should be enough. If you were to use 1.5HP inverter, would you see power savings?

Since the air con is overkill, it would hit set temperature fast, and the inverter will keep the air con in low speed to maintain the temp.

Jason
post Jul 12 2015, 01:10 AM

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Living room with minimal usage. Get Panasonic basic model it is now R410A. Inverter won't make huge difference if you on 2 hours each time.
Jason
post Jul 12 2015, 02:25 PM

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QUOTE(mahaendera @ Jul 12 2015, 11:43 AM)
Thanks, Jason. I think you're talking about PV12RKH model. Any reason why you choose Panasonic ? Not Daikin GA?
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IF Daikin GA has R410A for the same amount of money as the Panasonic, I'll choose it. So far the Panasonic is one of the most affordable non-inverter R410A air conditioner.

If you've followed this thread you'll see I have no particular inclination towards Panasonic, despite having 3 of their air cons in my home. (One of them a National).

My suggestion is based on what's best for your use case.

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