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 Rapidshare limiting model

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TSexcit3
post Oct 28 2006, 10:23 PM

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TC_Boy at least catch some ball! morphware is still in his reality distorted dreamland!

Thing is, bandwidth is a commodity, much like oil. If Malaysia's petrol is not subsidised, we'll be paying RM 3 a litre for RON 92. That's the fair market value for it. Doesn't mean Americans should pay US$3 / litre (its about US$2.50 / gallon now) Be reasonable.

It is never my intention to be sarcastic. You, morphware, pushed me, I had to retaliate in order not to appear weak. Re-read the posts! Not having a defense makes you look like a sissy! (Promise, mods: this is my last beef / diss)

Tgr, I'm not manipulating your minds. I'm just stating the facts. Some times you have to snap out of your dream and come back to the real world.

biggrin.gif peace, ya'll.
TSexcit3
post Oct 28 2006, 10:27 PM

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morphware, what connection problem?

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gnite,
excit3
TSexcit3
post Oct 29 2006, 01:16 AM

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Statistics as at 1:00 a.m.

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Finally someone figures out what I'm trying to say! My gosh! There is a GOD!!!!

My personal insults were never meant to be. Like I said, they were really pushing me. Re-read my first few posts and you'll notice that the tone of the posts are very very gentle. I made sure I never offended anyone's opinion. But as you go to page 2, criticism started flying from up down left and centre. People started posting without thinking.

They never understood basic concepts about running an ISP. Who would blame them. But shouldn't you keep quiet if you don't have the facts?

I'm very passionate about what I do. If you lack passion, you might as well stay at home and just sleep. Yes, I might be occationally gung-ho, but that doesn't mean my views should be taken lightly as if it comes from an immature kiddy (although I sometimes am).

No, I haven't met you. But I like to meet intelligent people. Maybe we can have coffee.

On a personal note, I'd go for the RM 128 plan too. Its more than what I'm paying today, but at least I get guaranteed bandwidth.
TSexcit3
post Oct 29 2006, 02:23 AM

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Here, evidence at 2:15am that TM Customer Support is telling us the truth! We are not capped on TM Net's server / international gateway!!! They de-prioritised BT traffic, putting it extremely low.

www.speedtest.net all gave me a nice 160KB/s on major test sites. So there is no problem with congestion.. just that BT is low low low on the priority list... maybe they allocate 40% of bandwidth for BT now? So 0.4 * 20gbit (prudent estimate) = 5gbit international bandwidth for whole of Malaysia to enjoy.

At odd hours like NOW, we have maybe 70% allocated to BT, so the speeds improve slightly.

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TSexcit3
post Oct 29 2006, 04:27 AM

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+Newbie+ , well put.

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Just more evidence about my "de-prioritization theory" Keep in mind most of us are getting 160KB/s on our HTTP downloads, so in theory, our torrents can hit that speed too. But because of BT having a lower priority or less % allocation of total TM international bandwidth, our peers can't touch the full potential.

Still its a big leap from totally banning International peers. Good job, TM!

This is 5am, so when people start to wake up, my speeds will temporarily fall.

[7:15 a.m. edit]

Just making sure...

This post has been edited by excit3: Oct 29 2006, 07:40 AM


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TSexcit3
post Oct 29 2006, 06:53 PM

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QUOTE(Spiv @ Oct 29 2006, 02:52 PM)
My personal opinion that won't solve the issue lack of bandwidth. Think deep enough it does not make sense. Well i lazy to type why it does not make sense but my guess is when it's really implemented the problem will still arise.
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You're pre-judging TM based on past performances. That way, even if TM wanna try to improve, you're essentially slamming the door on them. WE gotta be abit open sometimes.... although the chances of this plan happening is slim. But yes, I respect your opinions.


QUOTE(tycheah_7 @ Oct 29 2006, 04:31 PM)
a bad suggestion...! rm88 is already a very high rate compared to other ISP ex. HongKong... They provide a 6mb line with no limitation whatsoever at hkd263 thats around RM130!!! We are currently paying RM88 for 1mb so you could calculate the average ratio price for a 1mb line in HK is only around RM21....
And yet you want streamyx to increase the price... ?

you could check the latest price here...
http://www.netvigator.com/netvigator2003/index_eng.htm
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Its easy to compare with what other offerings in other countries. Problem is, getting bandwidth to Malaysia isn't cheap. I guess it would be great if Tier 1 ISPs make Malaysia their hub. Malacca and Penang were great hubs back in the early days of East-West trading. Its an irony that we're still not the hub where Asia meets America. Hmmmm... That isn't really possible because of the government. Not enough emphasis on seriously pushing and advancing broadband usage. The government monies are used elsewhere

QUOTE(kiDd @ Oct 29 2006, 04:43 PM)
yup definately ripping us all off .. Currently at the RM88 plan 1mb unlimited download is reasonable for normal avg or heavy users.

From what i see from the package the most reasonable for me would be RM128 package that would cost me more then what im paying now. The other package below the RM128 is not worth looking at for normal IT users. Im sure the people who read this forums or contribute to the IT community will seek RM128 package more. Limitation and paying more is just complicating things.

Point is i dont want to come home from work and count how much capped i have for the day so i cant play my MMORPG today cause i overdownload yesterday or some crap like that.
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Yes, I too believe that lowyat and heavy users will want the rm 128 package. Would you rather have 10KB/s downloads (fake 1mbit) inconsistently like it is now, and having your BT throttled... or would you like to have nice clean, consistent and quality 4 mbit (or whatever) bandwidth in exchange that you'll control yourself. AFAIK, MMORPG doesn't use much bandwidth, perhaps 10-20KB/s total depending on the game. So the limits provided are more than sufficient. With this plan, its advantagous for gamers since your latency will be kept low. This is the result of less "abuse of bandwidth".

QUOTE(cofin @ Oct 29 2006, 04:56 PM)
I think its better for them to set it back like last time because i dont have any problem surfing,online gaming and torrent for my connection
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Problem: We don't have enough capacity. The latest numbers show 0.5mil subscribers. Assuming all are using 1mbit and theoretically, we should need 500 gbit connectivity. If my numbers are right, we are at 1:25 contention ratio. If you factor in that some bandwidth are used for really high b/width applications and other people who use Direct, server farms, etc etc... the reality is closer to 1:100 contention ratio for home users. Hence slow speeds. Hence we're experiencing lousy QoS.


QUOTE(btfan @ Oct 29 2006, 05:10 PM)
This thread is nothing more than a person's wishlist in how he wants TMnet to run things. It's almost useless since there's no reason to believe TMnet will implement such a plan, or adopting the "rapidshare" model, or even bother to look at the plan.

Who on earth devised a limit/throttle plan for 1-2Mbps packages? Start offering 20-30Mbps packages affordably and then we'll talk. Try telling the world that a home subscriber who uses his 1Mbps package 24/7 is considered a "heavy" user. Joke of the year they will say.
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If you offer 20 mbit for everyone, there are 2 major technical shortcomings:
1. DSLAM will overload. 100 people using the DSLAM assuming all are using 50% at one point of time makes 1000 mbit/s transfers. Think of our local links. Think about our international congestion. We'll download like there's no tomorrow. Yes, you could argue that our downloads would take faster, thus we'll tie up the line less. But in reality, it would just encourage us to abuse it even more.

Its like SYABAS offering us unlimited water for a fixed rate. Someone will abuse it, even if 90% of the population are honest consumers!

QUOTE(lazo @ Oct 29 2006, 05:54 PM)
Regarding the post on the LYN front page, is the quota official or what?

Besides, I will need a package for online gamers who dont torrent but wanted to play online game with out lag. smile.gif
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No, its just a suggestion to TM. They're unlikely to use this model, but its a rough estimate of what we can expect to pay. Perhaps we might be even asked to pay more.... so basically I'm trying to help you soften your blow when TM eventually decides to charge by transfers.

Thank you all for your input. And thanks to the admin for making it frontpage despite the opposition and disagreeableness with the article!
TSexcit3
post Oct 29 2006, 07:04 PM

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QUOTE(JackX @ Oct 29 2006, 12:38 PM)
I notice they were prioritizing BT too cause I was downloading a 2 GB file (40% done) @ 10kb/s and when I woke up it was downloading at 100+ kb/s ! The speed fell sharply before 7am though.  sad.gif
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You're right. I made some screenshots (page 5) of my crazy speeds in the early hours of the day. At 7-8am onwards, when the office lights and computers start to boot up, Business Streamyx users are given priority. Our Torrents are throttled (thx for the definition help wink.gif )

throttled: reduce to a slower speed. (eg. Michael Schumacher was throttled to 100km/h at the pit lane to comply with the speed limit)

de-prioritised : put at a lower rank in order of importance (eg. Digi Communications decided to de-prioritise fake advertising, unlike Maxis and concentrate more on providing competitive real world savings).

Both basically mean limit, but have different usages.

QUOTE(Suk @ Oct 29 2006, 02:18 PM)
i think he suggest only

accept or not accept is still base on TMnut lo.

If they really capped the bandwidth to 4MB
i think there will be more frequent DC problem due to low/old quality phone cable plus nowaday copper is very expensive.

Bill - Need to print out how many data download per month ( cost increase )
Server Hardware or software - to monitor every users download bandwidth. ( cost increase )
Increase the Download rate - May result to frequent DC - cause More complaints, Helpline Traffic - HIGH, Technician more job to do, problem solving may need to spend more days
correct me if wrong. dont shoot me
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You're partly right. As for old quality cables, they can be changed. Sooner or later, you've got to change them for ADSL 2+ right? So why not take the opportunity now?

Data download - easy.. just like Digi's online bill statement, you can log on to TMnet's servers and they'll tell you how much you download. Then by personalising DU Meter, TM can let users know their usage... Remember, you get unthrottled at midnight everynight, so you don't have to worry about running out of quota at the end of the month!

Like any new system, initial setup will be problematic. But if given 1-2 months, the system should be self running and should be like clockwork.

QUOTE(+Newbie+ @ Oct 29 2006, 02:38 PM)
Well, implementation by TM Net is still a big question mark. Of course, if TM Net were to suddenly decide on such a plan, they would be obligated to provide a higher level of Quality of Service compared to previously.

As things stand right now, you're right. We don't even know if TM Net will consider such a plan and there are obviously many things to consider for implementation.
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That is the hope of this whole thing: Better QoS. I'd rather leave my computer on 8 hours a day and get my 10GB downloads of BT or any other traffic, done, rather than leaving it 24 hours a day and having only 3-4 GB downloaded like it is today. Throttled, inconsistent and annoying!

QUOTE(Shiryo @ Oct 29 2006, 02:46 PM)
Heck if they do come up with something like that, I wont mind spending a little bit more just for a steady 4Mb d/l with limited bandwidth. Plus, lets say I pause my download for the day and continue on the next day. But hey, its 4Mb download speeds.
Better than the speeds we get now....
*cough*512kb*cough*
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You hit it right on the nail. That's the whole point. Hopefully, the magic number is 4 mbit. That's all our hope - faster speeds! We'll have to see if TM can deliver!

TSexcit3
post Oct 29 2006, 07:37 PM

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Everyone wants better service. Starting from scratch will take another 5 years for the service to stabilise, and for the kinks and bugs to be ironed out. Running an ISP isn't like starting a mamak shop - just buy the ingredients, cook and serve. No, its much more than that. There's governement regulations, extremely high startup costs (up to billions of ringgit to cover whole of Malaysia) and many others.

Assuming you don't have much assets (eg. car, house) to your name, try getting a $100,000 loan from the bank and you'll know how HARD and DIFFICULT t is to begin. Talk is easy; actions, well, that's a whole other ballgame.

I have a sneaky feeling that Malaysia will open up to international broadband competition. Perhaps from Telanor?? wink.gif But for the next 24-36 months, TM will be the provider of choice, like it or not.
TSexcit3
post Oct 30 2006, 05:08 AM

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QUOTE(work_tgr @ Oct 29 2006, 09:55 PM)
Hey, excit3. are you going to suggest your proposal to TMnet ?
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I already have. As usual, I'm not surprised. They gave me the standard "we'll look into it" reply. I trust that they're studying various other methods to curb the lack of bandwidth situation.

QUOTE(3den @ Oct 29 2006, 10:02 PM)
vote for "don't throttle us, don't limit us" plan !

excit3,
actually the solution is out there for tmnut to follow...many countries successfully implement their unlimited broadband.oh have i mention, rm88 is 8Mb in jp(the slowest)? why dont they complain about it?

I dont go to eat buffet if they limit how much i can eat.
same goes with the tmnut.

as customer, we will demand...not comprise...!
only then things will improve.
*
You're right. Other countries can offer "truly unlimited" broadband. You took Japan as an example, but do you know that most of Asia's pipes to America are through Japan. Essentially they're the hub of Asia, so bandwidth there is cheaper than water. That's why they even have 100mbit true internet access at quite reasonable prices. Malaysia is quite of out the way (to America). Heck, its half way round the world! So transport isn't cheap!

No one likes to be limited. I'd be pissed if the government limits me on sex, pr0n or even watching TV. I hope this is a temporary thing, I'm sure it is. =)


QUOTE(ibu1980 @ Oct 29 2006, 10:07 PM)
instead of these new model plans.. why not just throttle certain hours and non-throttle during non-peak hours.  Maybe like let us utilize p2p traffic from midnite to 7am.  i guess customers will be happy with that atleast.
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Some people prefer to keep their computers on for 8 hours max a day. Currently, I'm getting 3-4 GB / day leaving it 24/7 with queues of files to download. Perhaps using the "bandwidth cap model", TM can say, "OK, traffic from 12am - 7am will be unthrottled, truly unlimited and no-nonsense". Since the lines during those hours are totally free. But then again, they intend to maintain a good QoS. Perhaps throttling on BT at those hours, but if the lines are available, then allow the speeds to be fast.

The thing is, right now our international capacity isn't up there yet - upgrade works are on the way (or so they claim). Gotta wait a little while more before this whole thing can happen.


QUOTE(morphware @ Oct 29 2006, 11:00 PM)
hey I rebooted my modem and got a 124.x.x.x IP and am now getting 200KB/s down and 55KB/s up from my BT.
*
Temporary fix.
TSexcit3
post Oct 31 2006, 07:39 PM

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Just copy-pasting my explanation on the proposed bandwidth caps plans from the other thread:

QUOTE(excit3 @ Oct 31 2006, 05:58 PM)
About half of you guys are missing the point. Your perception of this plan is WAY WAY WAY off what is has been intended to mean. I guess there's no real way to show you how it will work out unless someone tests it out in real life, or a working "beta test group" is done by the telekom guys.

Basically, my Rapidshare model proposal has the following characteristics:

1. Everyone capped at 4mbit download.

2. Bandwidth limits are introduced, so that EVERYONE can enjoy the 4mbit. If an idiot ties up the line for 24/7 downloading stuff to fill his server room, then he'll be throttled to 128kb for the rest of the day. After which, his speed resumes back to 4mbit.

3. You are charged by how much you THINK you need a day. If you read my poll, at 5GB a day, that's 1000 mp3 songs PER DAY. Can you download that much? Do you need that much?

4. The intention of bandwidth caps are so that everyone can enjoy higher speeds. If the line is freed up, higher speeds can be offered to subscribers.

5. First you complain about not having fast enough speeds. Then you complain that you modem can't sync at these fast speeds!!! Ironic right? Of course for some people, their physical copper wire needs to be upgraded. For the majority of us, its a matter of flipping a switch or even configuration on TM's server side.

Basically, this is a proposal. Can't call it a rumour, because I don't work for TM or know people who do! Its just a theoretical model, hence the appropriate title name. I really hope TM will consider similar models.

Upon reflection, I notice that MANY people think this "limit" is insufficient for your needs. Well, I guess you can pay the RM 188 one for 10GB / day downloads. That ought to be sufficient. IN fact, now i have a sneaky feeling that the limits will be lower:

5 simple plans:

0.2 GB / day - RM 44 (for low b/width)
1 GB / day - RM 66
2 GB / day - RM 88 (might be popular)
4 GB / day - RM 128
8 GB / day - RM 188

As for "we gotta apply again, like we did for MyKad", of course not! TM is smarter than that! We'll just be capped according to our current charges. RM 88 users will auto-capped to 4mbit, and 2GB / day, after using up the day's quota, it'll be throttled to 128kbit. It resets at 12:00 midnight.

Users will be allowed to go online and upgrade / downgrade their plan once for free. If you think you need more or less, just adjust to the plan that suits you.

I think these caps SHOULD be applied to home users only. For cybercafes, they're paying close to RM 600 for 2 mbit speeds, so they deserve "truly unlimited" performance. Now that's the real cost of providing b/band.

Truth is, internet bandwidth and running an ISP is expensive. And the costs will ultimately be transferred to the consumers. We want low latencies and consistent speeds. Right now, TM's international backbone is OVER OVER congested. To put into perspective.... imagine you have a big lan party at PWTC or KLCC or Low Yat ... and imagine there's 100 people sharing a Streamyx line, at 1 mbit and assuming that Streamyx line is 100% efficient - meaning 24/365 you can get that speed.

Yupp, that's the situation RIGHT now for Home Streamyx users. We are so congested that for home users, its a 1:100 bandwidth sharing (contention) ratio. To make that number lower, we need to cap. CAP CAP CAP! In U.S., they even TERMINATE your line for downloading too much! They term it "abuse". TM haven't done that yet, cuz there's gonna be a public outcry.

After your "daily quota" is used up, you'll be at 128kb/s. Believe me, that's more than enough for your DOTA and WOW or whatever games you play. MORE than enough, unless you set up a server (which you are not legally allowed to under the ToS).

For those of you who wants to switch to Jaring, Time or whatever's out there, by all means, GO! TM doesn't need your business. They've got herds of people on the waiting list just to get Streamyx. I bet that other ISPs can't even fulfill 40% of your P2P needs, let alone provision you a stable internet line.

My prediction: for the next 2-3 years, TM will still be the number 1 ISP in terms of subscriber numbers and quality of service. Just look at maxis: 3G home b/band, at 3GB per MONTH downloads. LOL, who would buy that????

There is no way for TM to offer truly unlimited transfers... even if they cap everyone at 256kbit, ultimately, their lines will be saturated! At 256kb/s, people who are genuine users of the net (not for illegal stuff), they'll feel that the speeds are slow. And at the end of the month, they use only 3-5GB TOTAL PER MONTH, compared to a heavy BT user who tapao that amount PER DAY. So if caps are introduced, it levels the playing ground and all will be treated equally - pay for what you use!

Sorry if I've offended a little, but that's the simple truth!
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QUOTE(excit3 @ Oct 31 2006, 06:15 PM)
Nope... you touch your 1GB quota, then your line will drop from 4 mbit to 0.128mbit (128kb/s) .. so you will see (15KB/s max) on your Torrents. Until 12:00

Good right? Its better than at <20KB/s the whole day right now, and depending on your luck, you go at XXX speed. Hopefully under this new proposal, you can fly at 450KB/s for the first few hours.. then when you touch your daily limit, you are throttled to allow OTHERS to fly. Its all about sharing the bandwidth, instead of leeching it all for yourself.

If you predict that you need a lot of transfers, get the RM 188 one lah. Your downloads will be geng for a longer time. Remember, it can be accumulated, meaning if you don't use all your 10GB you bought, it'll roll over up to 20GB or whatever-TM decides.... so you can download 20GB tomorrow and so forth.

[edited for clarity and factual accuracy]
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TSexcit3
post Nov 4 2006, 05:45 AM

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QUOTE(drummerboy @ Nov 3 2006, 06:03 PM)
Don't they dare to do it
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They can only be chicken for a certain amount of time. Eventually, they'll hire the extra support staff and implement caps. This caps has to happen for us to enjoy consistent speeds. Not that TM wants it, but that's the reality of Malaysian broadband! Heck, the next time you call the famous 1300-88-9515 number, they'll have a recording explaining the cap!

As for me, I always use the magic 1-3-5 key-press combo to talk to someone. Works all the time!
TSexcit3
post Nov 6 2006, 11:16 AM

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The only news you'll know is from the Newspapers, and perhaps.. the next "active topic" when someone in Lowyat posts a thread entitled, "YAY!!! TM OFFERING 4MBIT!!!"...

Meanwhile, we just sit back and wait.
TSexcit3
post Nov 6 2006, 07:31 PM

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You know what WILL really work? I've just got a whack in the head, and I've come up with this great idea.

Step 1: TM uncaps everyone at 4mbit. No limits, no throttle.

(People go bezerk at crazy BT speeds, up to 450KB/s!)

Step 2: When teh bandwidth becomes insuffient, run campaign ads telling people THAT'S THE CURRENT SITUATION if we uncap.

(People get angry & start to flame like hell)

Step 3: After 2 weeks, impose bandwidth caps as planned.

(People start to realise. "Oih, ke tepi! ke tepi!!" "Oh, maafkan saya, s'krg saya baru sedar. Terima kasih kerana....")

Sure, you get bad press, but teh Malaysian public is hard to please! They can't understand simple truths (until Digi gotta tell them its the simple truth, baru they sedar!)

So yeah, it looks like a childish proposition, and it won't likely be carried out. But that's the only way to "educate" the Malaysian public on tough situations like "unlimited broadband"....
TSexcit3
post Nov 6 2006, 08:21 PM

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Step 1 (unlimited bandwidth) is there so that 90% of the people won't feel shortchanged. They can achieve HIGH speeds on their "occational" big file downloads. But the situation in Malaysia is that we are eleet pirates. Everyone wants their movies from overseas... so bandwidth usage is high.

TM can cap us at 512kb/s and support our lust for bandwidth, but it would be disadvantagous for 90% of people who just want that 2mbit speed for "short periods of time" - to download that 100MB microsoft update, for example.

Step 2 occurs because bandwidth is a commodity and it is LIMITED. There's no such thing as "unlimited bandwidth". The capacity is there, but bandwidth (international) is very very very expensive. So TM can't offer "truly unlimited" pipes.

TM is aggressively upgrading their international pipes, so we SHOULD see improvements.

 

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