is there any exceptional case at all?

I think I just attended one wedding of hb's colleague, Malay Muslim (Malaysian) who married an American mat salleh, and was quite sure he didn't convert as his family is strictly Catholic.

u know why lowyat.net has search button?

To register wedding in Malaysia = 100% not possible.
To register wedding outside Malaysia and/or just do a 'customary' ceremony in Malaysia = Sure why not?

wrong post

This post has been edited by justforly: Apr 15 2015, 01:10 AM

Even if you do a customary ceremony, JAIS JAKIM, NAJIS, SIS, ISIS will come kecoh.

Where? Malaysia ah? Impossibrew.jpg

or maybe they don't impurities people.
or they don't want master race babies. that is way smarter than them
interracial babies are mostly proven smarter.

50% wont be good endings

nope

90%. I have a lot of relatives and friends who are dating/converted/married Muslims. Though we may not be at the end point of their saga yet, but judging by how it started and how it's currently progressing, it's pretty shitty and have little chance of it being a happy ending. Parents disown, fight over custody of children, friends go away, neighbours talk shit, don't want to puasa and end up tainting Islam, starts bashing parents' religion, don't want to take parents to temple for Cheng Beng prayers, fight with siblings, always inciting hate against family members who eat pork or McDonald's,

take your pick.

nope..

Dont ever do that
It will be the most regret for the rest of your life

proven? your neighbour smarter than you?

You wont be able to eat pork again....

something bout if its muslim wimmen, and the husband did not convert, the kid will be categorize as bastard by the NRC (the govt body who does registration)

no

no

no

impossible

you must name your son jon snow after that

When the male can have 4 wives, the female will be at the losing end

sarawak ok jer, some of my relatives practice that.

I've heard from my fren, his auntie uncle different religion, one christian another muslim. Never convert, kids grow up till go college dy. Living christian's life. But only now jais jakim come find them, so they migrate to other country just 3-4 years back.

Actually, why must force ppl convert?
Izit a must for Islam or jz happening in msia?

Rukun Nikah

1. Pengantin lelaki (Calon Suami)

2. Pengantin perempuan (Calon Isteri)

3. Adanya Wali

4. Dua orang saksi lelaki

5. Ijab dan Qabul (akad nikah)




Syarat-Syarat Sah Nikah

a) Syarat-Syarat Bakal Suami



1. Islam

2. Lelaki yang tertentu

3. Bukan mahram dengan bakal isteri

4. Bukan dalam ihram haji atau umrah

5. Dengan kerelaan sendiri (tidak sah jika dipaksa)

6. Mengetahui wali yang sah bagi akad nikah tersebut

7. Mengetahui bahawa perempuan itu boleh dan sah dinikahi

8. Tidak mempunyai empat orang isteri yang sah dalam satu masa.





b) Syarat-Syarat Bakal Isteri



1. Islam

2. Bukan seorang khunsa

3. Perempuan yang tertentu

4. Tidak dalam keadaan idah

5. Bukan dalam ihram haji atau umrah

6. Dengan rela hati (bukan dipaksa kecuali anak gadis))

7. Bukan perempuan mahram dengan bakal suami

8. Bukan isteri orang atau masih ada suami

Some religion just like to force ppl, jangan persoal, sedition

So many tered on this question..mohon mod ban if other people open tge same tered again..wasting forum search funtion..

Nope, at least not in Malaysia.

don't

it's just not gonna worth it

too many problems will arise

its not malaysian thing. its islam thing. korek me if im wrong.

kebodohan apa ni

Just ceremony here. Not register here.

answer: yes can.


should you do it? only if you can live outside malaysia or if your kids will not be malaysians.

the moment you touch government (which is impossible to avoid - tax, school, etc) then they will know and they will kecoh.

A Muslim man is allowed to marry a Christian woman(without the need of converting), but a Christian man is not permitted to marry a Muslim woman.But u can't do this in Malaysia.

This post has been edited by Xefron: Apr 15 2015, 08:40 AM

Why is a man from a strictly Catholic family is marrying a Muslim woman?

not in peninsular

After ceremony get out of bolehland sure can

ini cerita dua orang,
liligen itu illellevant

Not here in fanatasia

if we cn do dat u will c alot of cainis guys marrying melei aweks ledi

You can in/out thousand time without a problem. Just don't have any legal thing to do with gov.

[quote=deodorant,Apr 15 2015, 01:01 AM]
To register wedding in Malaysia = 100% not possible.
To register wedding outside Malaysia and/or just do a 'customary' ceremony in Malaysia = Sure why not?



Possible! Have to through lawyer and the muslim person must have the will to convert. Then only can hold the case.

The ans is no if u want to get legally married here .

Alternatively the Malaysian can drop his citizenship and marry using non muslim laws .

Why conversion ? Cos islam is religion of peace

Has there even been a single confirmed case of born malay Muslim allowed to murtad? I thought the only successful cases are non meleis / Muslims who converted to Islam for marriage but then still makan babi and minum arak and never sembahyang then only jabatan allow.

is like you surrender your life coz someone will be watching you

parking. popcorn ready.

At Sarawak all also can. Songlap balak also halal there

Impossible, don't even try, it's not worth it.

even married in overseas at the end won't be a good ending

this thing very leceh one, if you gatal until max level also advice you don't get involve

It can be done, I personally know 2 couples whom have done that, 1 in Penang and 1 in Johore. Born muslim not convert. The whole process of getting out of the religion, documentation, countless counselling, and etc took about 8-10 years before they got married.
It really depends on both your will power + courage to withstand those "tortures".

There is no compulsion in Islam, it is a knowledge-based religion where the more you understand about it, the more you will acknowledge and love the practices, the less you understand about it, the more you will dwindle. One must understand why he needs to pray five times a day, a muslimah should understand why she want to cover her aurah in front of non-mahram, and how a muslim must avoid from getting near of riba' or paying interest in business. Eventually, one action is useless without knowledge, and knowledge without action is futile.

its time for Msia embrace marriage without taking religion difference as an issue not to tie the knot. Cmon its like im a rockstar and she is a hip hop lady. Our genre music is different and maybe culture is different but that is the beauty of marriage, to share something different so that we can learn new things so that the world is more open.

Can't say like that first, because my neighbour Malay-Chinese mixed baby, haven't gotten into kindergarten yet, still is a baby.

Yeah, i know the true muslim is very good indeed. But too sad, in Malaysia, due to political influence in religion, now we have a lot of narrow minded/ extremist muslim.

jakim, jais, isis, isma, is, pekida, perkasa dont like... imposiburu... 1 malaysia kecoh

Migrate or in secret or so wealthy that nobody can do anything!

Google Aisyah Bukhari and Lina Joy.

In any case, a Malay (semenanjung excluding Malay Serawak) if converted out of Islam will lose their bumi and Malay status.

kesian baru keluar gua ke?

malay wedding =/= Islam

Lazy to Google, wasn't her case was inconclusive, she tried to go to non civil courts to get her religion changed but civil courts said no can do, then she gave up and left the country?

Malaysia = stone age country

true. ended up separated.

They have to keluar Malaysia after they murtad.
Lina Joy is most famous case cos she went to the courts.

Another lesser known is Yeshua Jamaludin, they even arrested him under ISA. The moment his lawyers managed to get him released he keluar to western country.
There are others like him but officially, in Malaysia, they are muslim.

Basically like this. With regards to religion, a muslim must go to syariah court to apply if she/he no longer wants to be a muslim. Many cases blown out of porpotion because they go to civil court straight which have no authority in this type of cases.

Technically and legally a muslim is able to hand over their muslim/malay status via the syariah court. I don't say it's easy but doable.

And again I ask. Technically and legally sure, but has there been an ACTUAL case of a born malay Muslim managed to go through the system and change his/her religion on IC?

No, must convert, what do you think my religion can play play one ah? God also facepalm to see this kind of mixing.

In 2011, 135 out of 686 were approved. I'm not sure out of 135 how many are born malay/muslim. I am also wondering why since people always claiming religion is a personal matter why then they do need to advertise their conversion to public ? I accept it's logical here from non-muslim to convert to muslims because they can get the bumiputra status for whatever it's worth but from muslim to non-muslim, what for ? So that they can eat in public freely during ramadan ? Why does have to make some sort of 'almost' political statment when they already believe that religion should be private ?

You want until the day you die your body also kena rebut sinisana ?

Aiya why so many nonsense and hearsay in this thread. People can't read issit?

You're almost right. Certain states have their own fatwa on this.
Perlis for example, allow this. Fatwa from Perlis

I've answered many similar question regarding this in the past.

SUMMARY
Islam (general)
- Muslim man allowed to marry Christian or Jewish(because Muslim also believes in Torah & Bible) woman
- Non-Muslim man will never be able to marry Muslim woman without converting

Malaysia specific
- Muslim man allowed to marry Christian or Jewish woman in some state (sadly many Muslim also didn't know this)
- Non-Muslim man will never be able to marry Muslim woman without converting

But I know you mean Ahli Kitab. Pada dasarnya harus. Tapi in Malaysia both need to be Islam only the nikah can be halal.
If you want merid with them , they need to still beriman pada Allah dan pada rasul-rasul . They must be who follow the original taurat & injil . Not a new testament.

Syarat Sah Nikah
Syarat bakal suami
Islam
Lelaki yang tertentu
Bukan lelaki mahram dengan bakal isteri
Mengetahui wali yang sebenar bagi akad nikah tersebut
Bukan dalam ihram haji atau umrah
Dengan kerelaan sendiri dan bukan paksaan
Tidak mempunyai empat orang isteri yang sah dalam satu masa
Mengetahui bahawa perempuan yang hendak dikahwini adalah sah dijadikan isteri

Syarat bakal isteri
Islam
Perempuan yang tertentu
Bukan perempuan mahram dengan bakal suami
Bukan seorang khunsa
Bukan dalam ihram haji atau umrah
Tidak dalam idah
Bukan isteri orang

This post has been edited by rekaito90: Apr 15 2015, 01:33 PM

That would be major oversight by Perlis wouldn't it? What you're saying is true for most states, but definitely not Perlis. To be specific, Perlis have differing views on how to define Ahli Kitab.
Dr Asri start this during his first stint as Mufti. Dr Juanda Jaya continue with same opinion. Now Dr Asri is Mufti again, he's still firm on this definition.

Differing opinion between Mufti is no big deal, Islam celebrate that as long as it doesn't contradict Quran. So Perlis Mufti view on this are definitely acceptable.
Rukun you highlighted is standard rukun given out by Majlis Fatwa Kebangsaan. So there is no question about 'Halal'ness or 'Haram'ness of this marriage. Perlis fatwa says its Halal, so its Halal there.

You'll see more example in East Malaysia. Lots of Muslim men marry non-Muslim women, and Malaysian civil & syariah law respect that legal union. I know because I befriend few of these couples.

Note: This is one of the issue that I highlighted during open discussion with Jabatan Agama few years back, when there's an idea by some narrow-minded group to disallow non-Muslim from entering mosque few years back.

Is it? I'm not sure how to consume this but if you are already disscuss with jabatan etc then who am I to object back . But if I am sure, Ahli Kitab who is belief in Injil and Taurat ( This is about the correct view on Ahli Kitab , should be this way) when before the Jew convert it to old testament bible and new bible. If the person already belief that Isa is the son of god then he/she not already Ahli Kitab.

If she's hindu or buddha then also cannot be marriage. Only Ahli Kitab (is the one who believe in Allah and prophets , before Muhammad was born and Al Quran is complete on Muhammad time )

This post has been edited by rekaito90: Apr 15 2015, 02:08 PM

Yes. This is my own interpretation with regards to Ahli-Kitab. Even having this discussion without various muslims from all over the world. However there are those back then who still follow the old Jewish law and not relying on the later Talmudic laws.

USA master race is exceptional mah,

including Europe master race too

Yea exactly, it is said , in fatwa perlis

"Mesyuarat juga bersetuju bahawa maksud Ahli Kitab secara umum ialah ‘orang-orang yang masih berpegang kepada Kitab Taurat dan Injil walaupun kitab itu sudah diselewengkan (Bible, old testament & new testament) sebelum Al-Quran diturunkan’. Tetapi Al-Quran masih menganggap mereka itu Ahli Kitab."

But nowadays mana ada Ahli Kitab dah, if ada I'm not sure where they are, sekarang only Islam (al quran) ,christian (bible) . Syia' is not real Islam, it is completely messed.

This post has been edited by rekaito90: Apr 15 2015, 02:37 PM

Syiah believes that they are true muslim.

Dr Asri argument is, even during Prophet Muhammad time, most Christian and Jews already follow the 'altered' version of the Books(trinity et al). I couldn't find the Youtube video I watched a while back where he explain on this issue, its part of longer ceramah of which the title I already forgotten.

And to clarify, the thing with Jabatan Agama is in regard to general hukum of marriage, so that ruling of non-Muslim barred from entering mosque will not be applicable, ever. I didn't discuss with them regarding Perlis fatwa specifically.

I attended a wedding, malay lady & french guy. They tak suka the conversion bit.. so they KELUAR lor...

How can they believe they are true muslim when they hate Muhammad SAW? Lol

That depends on the sects. Only the most extreme sects believe that the revelation was suppose for Ali instead of Muhammad. Majority was the same as Sunni except the part regarding the caliph. Since they overtly honour the ahlul bait I always told them during our debates that since Muhammad married Abu Bakar's and Omar's daughter and Usman married Muhammad's daughter the 3 caliphs are also consider ahlul bait since marriage in Islam (and mainly Asian culture) are not just union between 2 individuals but also union between 2 families.

Wow.. btw, what's about the debate? Are you in some kind of sociology /islamic studies?

Oh okay, sorry misslook on reading. Thanks by the way bro. Yeap as I know non muslim can enter Mosque , but with proper attire and ethic.

rewatched wedding video....

i think he converted. that mat salleh ... because his name was Tony but in the solemnization where he gave X amount of money to bride's father, I thought I heard he called him Ashraf... which, could be he converted and that's his muslim name

but its ok la, if he no solat no puasa eat pork, not like got CIA agent monitor.. lol

No lah. Just normal forum debates and discussions. Something like RWI here.