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 The Official Lowyat.NET Sintua Thread, A thread on Chinese folk religion.

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estcin
post May 13 2015, 01:36 PM

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QUOTE(sales.convenience @ May 13 2015, 01:30 PM)
Tales of the mysterious Toa Payoh God Tree

It is believed to be more than 100 years old. It was approximately six storeys tall.

The tree collapsed on Sept. 11 2013 at around 2 p.m. during a storm.

Urban legend has it that when work began to develop Toa Payoh New Town in 1965, the bulldozers sent to flatten the area allegedly malfunctioned when they approached the tree.
The history

The bulldozers could only move in reverse, but not forward towards the tree.

Religious leaders offered prayers to the tree but it “refused” to budge.

The authorities then decided to leave the tree alone.

Residents believe the government took the tree into consideration when planning Toa Payoh town’s layout.
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

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A simlar story at the Indian temple in Mid Valley

This post has been edited by estcin: May 13 2015, 01:37 PM
SUSredisthcan
post May 13 2015, 09:01 PM

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QUOTE(Wolves @ May 5 2015, 09:11 PM)
Actually I do not think it just "ends" as per se after you are strong enough or reach adulthood and the deity will continue to look after you. Its the same as having a dad and when you are younger you "seek" his attention and he pay more attention to you but as you grow up into adulthood you talk less and interact less (remember to treat your dad nicely). And as i say, you are linked with that deity and that deity will continue to look after you. Just that you grew stronger and doesnt really need to rely on them. I believe the "ties" will not be broken at all.

When a child is having some difficulties or problem, as the example given by nachtsider such as sickly, prone to being disturbed by evil spirits (usually manifest with signs like nightly crying, screaming, restlessness, easily startled and so on), normally the parents will be asked to seek the temple's help. The temple will see (depends on the temple, some might use date of birth and consult a special book, some can terus "see" and tell, some consult "sifu" or totem master or consult a medium and the list goes on) and they will then tell you which deity (or deities, it could be more than one) or what you need to do to help. It could be none deity. I seen a guy whom needs a "Datuk", as in a title Datuk and after find one whom willing to accept him as his godson, the kid's body automatically become better and the illness does not really come back. Anyway, most of these cases usually involves deity or deities.

Some might ask, if there is why is there more than one? and in this case, how to know which one to find? Depending on the "problem" the child faces, some of the problems can be solved by a number of deities. For example, if due to "past" life or some sort of karma, one child is prone to be disturbed by "spirits", a lot of deities can help. The child might also face problem that only one deity can handle (that particular deity's area of specialty). Anyway, if a lot of deity can help, then the "affinity" of the child will be taken into consideration and even with the date of birth, there still might exist a few deities to choose from.

So, in that case how to know which deity to "choose"? Easy, go to the temple of the said deity and see if you got "fate". A case which i personally knew. A child has 3 deities that was recommended to the parents. The first day, the parents decided to bring to one of the temple whom host one of the deity. At the time of departure, it rains quite hard and due to the body condition of the child, the parents decided to call it off. Second day they decided to try a second temple but the condition of the child suddenly got worse and they call it off. On the third day, they decided to visit the third temple and everything went smoothly. After that i was told that it actually mean that the first two is not the one the child should seek but the third one is. This one is from experience and how I knew about these stuff but there is no hard evidence and mostly from hearsay from people in this area. But I above two cases I know them personally and that was what i was told.

so.... nachtsider. Am i right? tongue.gif
Right you are. smile.gif

As I mentioned prior, the bond is not completely lost and total abandonment never occurs. Your godparent will still be hovering in the wings with their ear to the ground, prepared to act at a moment's notice should things go south again, although he or she obviously does not hope for such an outcome to happen, not because they no longer care, but because you being able to proceed in life on your own two feet is what any parent would wish for their child.

And yes, the choice of godparent does hinge on certain physical, spiritual and mental parameters. Some gods may not be as good a 'fit' for certain people as others.
SUSredisthcan
post May 13 2015, 09:10 PM

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QUOTE(estcin @ May 13 2015, 01:36 PM)
A simlar story at the Indian temple in Mid Valley
And the Datuk shrine situated along Klang's Jalan Nanas. wink.gif
SUSredisthcan
post May 16 2015, 08:21 AM

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What is the purpose behind the miniature coffins that accompany the statues of Hell beings?

Earlier in the thread, I spoke about ghosts and anchor objects - objects that they can draw power from or use to help themselves manifest:

QUOTE(nachtsider @ May 5 2015, 07:07 AM)
Ghosts can exert influence upon the physical realm (e.g. making themselves visible to humans, speaking to/communicating with humans, moving objects, etc), although doing so requires energy expenditure on their part, which is why most ghostly encounters are quite mild - even the very act of making themselves visible to humans necessitates a ghost to expend energy, which each ghost only has a limited pool of.

Certain ghosts have larger energy pools than others; a ghost can derive strength from its emotions (e.g. from its sadness or its rage, if it died a wrongful death), from feeding off living creatures (which is why people sometimes feel weak or fatigued after encountering ghosts - they have had their vitality sapped), or from anchor objects (objects that hold significance to them in some way, which they can draw power from or use to help themselves manifest - an anchor object can even take the form of another person, a loved one).

A ghost with a large enough energy pool can use it to exert harmful influence upon a human, including interfering with said human's physical, mental and spiritual faculties - this can present as physical illness (your uncle's case), or even mental illness/behavioural problems.

If the ghost keeps up this onslaught for long enough, it can definitely kill its victim - either directly, via physical illness, or indirectly (e.g. driving the victim to suicide).
This brings us to the subject of the miniature coffins that can often be seen accompanying the statues of Hell deities, invariably those of a ghostly nature like the Black and White Brothers, the Filial Son, Ox-Head and Horse-Face, the Five Ghosties and so on.

These ideally accompany the statues on a one-coffin-to-one-statue basis, although some arrangements place the coffins separate from the statues, and certain small or low-budget layouts have several Hell deities sharing a single large coffin.

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These serve as anchor objects for the Hell deities, permitting them to manifest extra-quick and extra-easy in the vicinity of wherever such coffins are placed. They also provide the Hell deities with comfy havens to rest and restore their energy, similar to how Dracula and others of his kind required a coffin or earth box to recuperate after a night of hunting.

Within each coffin can be found a folded talisman bearing the name of the Hell deity to whom the coffin is assigned (multiple talismans if the coffin is shared), certain ritual items that energise the coffin, such as specially blessed coins or gold ingots (a symbol of the Hell beings' capability to reward the deserving), lengths or spools of thread (signifying the Thread of Life, a measure of human lifespan that the Hell beings hold sway over, similar to that spun by the Greek Fates) or abacus beads (the Hell beings use abacuses to calculate human merits, demerits and so on), plus a lining material to provide the Hell deity a comfortable 'bed' to rest on. In the old days, soil from the graveyard would constitute this lining material - cemetery soil is a potent Hell-related ritual tool, being the soil that is most imbued with the aura of death, and also the soil that is most fertile - although these days, things are often bowdlerised with the usage of rice grains or sugar instead.

The photos below illustrate a medium consecrating a miniature coffin, blessing the intended contents before placing them within, upon a layer of rice grains.

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dp82
post May 16 2015, 04:23 PM

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Just curious, is there any possibility that a Hell Deities cross path with Heaven Deities?
SUSredisthcan
post May 16 2015, 04:31 PM

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QUOTE(dp82 @ May 16 2015, 04:23 PM)
Just curious, is there any possibility that a Hell Deities cross path with Heaven Deities?
It is more than just a mere possibility. wink.gif

Here is Tua Ya Pek/the White Phantom, a Hell deity, paying his respects to Lord Guan, a Heavenly god.

user posted image
dp82
post May 16 2015, 06:04 PM

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QUOTE(nachtsider @ May 16 2015, 04:31 PM)
It is more than just a mere possibility. wink.gif

Here is Tua Ya Pek/the White Phantom, a Hell deity, paying his respects to Lord Guan, a Heavenly god.

user posted image
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Would they "fight"/ "argue" or they just do their own role/ job function?
SUSredisthcan
post May 17 2015, 11:02 AM

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QUOTE(dp82 @ May 16 2015, 06:04 PM)
Would they "fight"/ "argue" or they just do their own role/ job function?
Although they have different spheres of interest and different roles, they are all on the same side.

In fact, there are cases where Hell deities approach Heavenly gods for help with problems that are beyond their capability to solve, and sometimes vice versa.
chrisqck
post May 17 2015, 12:03 PM

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@nachtsider - Thanks you for starting this thread~!!! Finally reached the last post laugh.gif sweat.gif

I'm a "cina kampung" from kelantan and born into these culture. When I was a boy, I really look forward to the festivities and celebrations that we would have in honour of these deities. I even looked forward to being "chopped" at the back of my old t-shirt with those "bloodied chops". (Back then I only know that it will protect me but thanks to this thread now I know why laugh.gif ).

We also looked forward to the event where 4 guys will carry a deity's statue on a "kio" and it will turn and turn. To the child me then, it was fascinating how 4 big burly guys could be subdued and put under control by a small statue. Just look at how they struggled to keep still. ohmy.gif

Then I grew up and left my village to further my studies. As I try to cope with new challenges studying and later working, I returned to my village only once or twice a year and most times not during these celebrations. Then there's that phase in in my life where I "re-discovered" Buddhism and became a devout follower and in Buddhism, all of these is not compatible. It also didn't help that there are some opportunistic people out there who uses the name of these deities for their own greedy purpose. All these factors has somehow eroded my interest in all these. My own ignorance (as you said before: Monkey See, Monkey Do) only makes it worst.

What this thread has done is to re-awaken the sense of wonders that I lived in back when I was a young boy in a small chinese village in Kelantan. It also helps me to finally understand the diffence between the "culture" that I was born into and grew up with and this new "religion" that I've picked up at the Buddhist Youth Camp. The fear, doubts and confusion that clouded my mind has finally been cleared all thanks to this thread. So thank you and please keep it up !!!

p/s: And thank you for keeping this in Serious /k/ !!! Otherwise we will have to suffer with the nonsense that is /k/ at it's worst. rclxub.gif


And for other "regulars" who also contributed their knowledge, thank you too for sharing your knowledge and keeping this thread alive! thumbup.gif I will add this to one of the few threads that I always visit when I have the time.

This post has been edited by chrisqck: May 17 2015, 12:04 PM
estcin
post May 17 2015, 10:06 PM

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New query for Nacht. Why is that some people have the third eye and can see "things"? And how come children and kids are more prone to seeing "things"?
SUSredisthcan
post May 18 2015, 08:03 AM

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Hi Chris, glad to know that my thread has proved enlightening and entertaining. Do feel free to stick around. biggrin.gif

QUOTE(chrisqck @ May 17 2015, 12:03 PM)
I'm a "cina kampung" from kelantan and born into these culture. When I was a boy, I really look forward to the festivities and celebrations that we would have in honour of these deities. I even looked forward to being "chopped" at the back of my old t-shirt with those "bloodied chops". (Back then I only know that it will protect me but thanks to this thread now I know why  laugh.gif ).
Getting your garments stamped with a deity's seal is one means by which you can obtain their protection, yes.

It is a more generalised form of blessing - the stamp does not confer as specialised a degree of divine assistance as a made-on-the-spot talisman, which is carefully tailored to address a specific problem, but effective in its own way.

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QUOTE(chrisqck @ May 17 2015, 12:03 PM)
We also looked forward to the event where 4 guys will carry a deity's statue on a "kio" and it will turn and turn. To the child me then, it was fascinating how 4 big burly guys could be subdued and put under control by a small statue. Just look at how they struggled to keep still.  ohmy.gif
The palanquin/kio is imbued with the divine essence of the deity whose statue is housed within; this divine essence can make its presence felt by making the palanquin move in certain directions and, by extension, move those who are carrying the palanquin, too.

However, the ideomotor effect does come into play, as well; authentic palanquin movements are usually on the subtle side, involving more gentle 'steering' and swaying rather than out-and-out leaping or juddering.

user posted image
SUSredisthcan
post May 18 2015, 09:33 AM

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QUOTE(estcin @ May 17 2015, 10:06 PM)
New query for Nacht. Why is that some people have the third eye and can see "things"? And how come children and kids are more prone to seeing "things"?
The second sight is an ability commonly unlocked following a near-death experience.

A census of people who possess the second sight will reveal that most, if not all, obtained it after a serious illness or some other close shave with death.

More rarely, one gains it after a significant (often prolonged and traumatic) ghostly encounter.

Coming into contact with the other side can result in a little bit of the other side rubbing off onto you.

Part of your spiritual wavelength now permanently reverberates with the frequency of the unseen realm after having immersed yourself in it for a brief time, thus permitting you to witness things from the unseen realm - that which others cannot.

If you do not have the second sight, you are largely confined to seeing otherworldly beings only when they allow you to see them, or when your spiritual wavelength temporarily reverberates with that of the unseen.

This temporary reverberation can happen when you are physically or mentally ill - the latter includes bouts of depression or even severe emotional stress.

There is also another category of people who fall somewhere in-between - who do not have the second sight, but are able to freely detect things to a less extreme degree from time to time, often 'feeling' the presence of such beings or hearing/smelling them rather than out-and-out seeing them.

We call them 'sensitive' - this category included my spiritual teacher, and (one could say) possibly even myself.

This sensitivity is obtained similarly to the second sight - I almost did not survive my birth and was a very sickly child before I started to have brushes with the supernatural, while my teacher was nearly killed in a very nasty motorcycle accident some years before he became a medium.

Sensitivity and the second sight can be undone via certain rituals, although it is difficult more often than not.

As for why children are prone to seeing the supernatural, this is partly due to them being closer to the period of pre-existence on the other side than fully grown adults are.

Some of them find it subconsciously difficult to let go of life (un-life?) in the spirit realm, thus making their spiritual wavelength continue reverberating with that of their former habitat.

Another explanation is that their spiritual auras, a cloak-like barrier that surrounds you and protects you to a certain degree from malign otherworldly influences, are not as developed.

This aura is something that strengthens as one matures, and can be weakened by physically or mentally traumatic experiences, similar to the temporary reverberation that I have mentioned above.

A weakened aura can also explain more frequent encounters with ghosts and other supernatural entities of ill-omen.

When one's immune system is weak, one gets sick more often - the aura acts as your spiritual immune system of sorts.

Again, through the performing of certain rituals, auras can be strengthened and persisting past ties with the realm beyond can be cut.
sales.convenience
post May 20 2015, 07:03 PM

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sharing a video of a recent festivity in Sg
dp82
post May 20 2015, 11:12 PM

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QUOTE(sales.convenience @ May 20 2015, 07:03 PM)


sharing a video of a recent festivity in Sg
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Who's that ah pek in a long white janggut?
SUSredisthcan
post May 22 2015, 10:33 AM

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QUOTE(dp82 @ May 20 2015, 11:12 PM)
Who's that ah pek in a long white janggut?
The white-bearded elderly gentleman is Tua Pek Gong - the Wealth God aspect of the Earth God, whom I have spoken about earlier in this thread. smile.gif

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SUSmeistsh_musical
post May 26 2015, 12:30 AM

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i want to ask sintua heibaiwhchang can know our dead and life book?
SUSredisthcan
post May 26 2015, 01:10 AM

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QUOTE(meistsh_musical @ May 26 2015, 12:30 AM)
i want to ask sintua heibaiwhchang can know our dead and life book?
Not even they will know for sure.

Your death is not a predetermined event.
sweetguy
post May 28 2015, 02:31 PM

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Hi Nach,
How many number of joss sticks that we use to pray to all these deities in heavenly, earthly and under world? I was told that different numbers of joss sticks. For example: Heavenly deities- 3 sticks, Earthly -5 sticks and underworld 7 sticks? Can you confirm?
Thks.
SUSredisthcan
post May 28 2015, 05:29 PM

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QUOTE(sweetguy @ May 28 2015, 02:31 PM)
Hi Nach,
How many number of joss sticks that we use to pray to all these deities in heavenly, earthly and under world? I was told that different numbers of joss sticks. For example: Heavenly deities- 3 sticks, Earthly -5 sticks and underworld 7 sticks? Can you confirm?
Thks.
Hi sweetguy,

The number of incense sticks CAN indeed vary from type of deity to type of deity.

I have touched upon the subject earlier in the thread; the relevant section is quoted below for your reference, along with other notes on the protocol one should adhere to while praying in a temple or shrine.

Nacht smile.gif

QUOTE(nachtsider @ Jan 27 2015, 06:35 PM)
You have been taught the proper basic behaviour, which is highly commendable, although there certainly is more to the nuts-and-bolts of prayer.  notworthy.gif

I make it a point to be at my most presentable before attending a temple. This includes having a shower and putting on fresh clothes. If you are female, visiting a temple when you are menstruating is not advisable; menstrual blood, so heavy in yin energy, is a substance that confounds/contaminates the temple's spiritual 'ecosystem' and prevents rituals from being optimally conducted.

Certain taboos exist where it comes to certain deities, and one should be mindful to adhere to them. For instance, one should not consume non-Halal items before praying to Datuk spirits, or offer them such items. It pays to do one's research where it comes to these matters.

Your first port of call when you get to the temple is the altar to the Heavenly Hosts/the Jade Emperor; this is usually represented by a large urn standing just outside the main entrance. An offering of three incense sticks, representing Heaven, Earth and Humanity, is the standard for most Heavenly gods, and applies here. As per folklore, incense sticks serve 'to waft your prayers/wishes to the gods', akin to smoke signals.

Standing with the urn in front of you and with your back to the main entrance, clasp the incense sticks in both hands, bow your head  or bow at the waist, and make your prayer while remaining bowed. Once you are done, place the incense sticks in the urn using your left hand; this hand is closer to the heart, the seat of Yang energy, and using it thus also creates a gesture of sincerity.

Most large temples have a double door as the main entrance, with small side entrances flanking it. Do not enter via the main entrance, but via the small entrance to the right of the double door instead (the right side is always favoured first, as this is the side that represents Yang, while the left represents Yin). The main entrance is reserved for the deities' use, and is also the prime conduit for the temple's spiritual energies.

Next, head for the main altar in the interior of the temple; this will display the principal deity to whom the temple is dedicated. This deity need not necessarily be the most senior deity enshrined within, but are nevertheless the next in line. A three stick offering will again be the order of the day - this is in deference to the fact that they are the 'guest of honour'. Same prayer procedure as before, with you facing the main altar this time.

You then similarly pay your respects to the other deities in the interior, travelling in an anticlockwise direction. In other words, once you have paid your respects at the central altar, you then make offerings to the deities enshrined to the right of the altar, and then the deities enshrined to the left of the altar (again, Yang over Yin). After this, you exit the temple through the small entrance to the left of the double door (once more, Yang over Yin), and pay your respects to any deities enshrined outside.

The other deities will often consist of a mixture of Heavenly gods, Earth gods and Hell deities. As above, most Heavenly gods will warrant a three-stick offering - unless there are specific indications that individual offerings are a must, you can collectively offer three sticks to a group of Heavenly gods (this will be apparent when only a single incense urn is placed before two or more statues). There are one or two exceptions, such as the Five Camp Commanders, a group of Heavenly warriors who are collectively offered five sticks instead of three (I will speak more about them later).

The Earth gods are normally collectively offered five incense sticks, as they are fivefold, in charge of the soil of all five cardinal directions. And the Hell deities are normally collectively offered seven incense sticks. Seven is a number associated with the Yin aspect and death - each phase of the moon, a Yin heavenly body, is a seven-day cycle, seven seven-day periods, totalling forty-nine days, are how long it supposedly takes for a newly-deceased soul to sever itself from the mortal realm (see my previous posts on the 'bail period' that a soul receives prior to heading for the Netherworld), and the Hungry Ghost Festival takes place during the Seventh Lunar Month.

The general order in which one pays their respects is Heavenly gods first, Earth Gods next, and Hell deities last (you've got it - Yang over Yin). Once you are done, drop an offering into the temple's donation box if you feel like it. You are not obliged to make an offering, but if you do, the offering is traditionally commensurate with the seriousness of the problem for which you are seeking assistance.

As previously mentioned, it is very bad manners to bald-facedly make demands of the gods, especially if you haven't been a particularly good person. But a sincere, virtuous individual in genuine need of help - that's another story. You need not provide your particulars, nor need you necessarily go into all the nitty-gritty details; merely saying something along the lines of the following will do: "Sir/madam, I am in a time of need. I know I may not necessarily deserve help, but if you somehow deem me worthy of assistance and decide to smile upon me, I would be very much obliged. Thank you in advance." Neither does your prayer have to be said out loud.

Attending a temple with no desire to seek assistance is more than acceptable - in fact, I pretty much always attend temples with no requests in mind whatsoever. You adhere to the same procedure as above, but your prayer will obviously be different. Something along these lines is fine: "Sir/madam, I am here to pay my respects - I hope that you enjoy my offerings, and that you have a good day."

Hope this helps.  biggrin.gif
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post Jun 5 2015, 10:30 AM

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Bump for some great artwork of two familiar faces.

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