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 LYN Christian Fellowship V8 (Group)

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de1929
post Dec 11 2014, 07:38 AM

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Good Morning Malaysia biggrin.gif God Bless U All
de1929
post Dec 11 2014, 07:36 PM

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QUOTE(amosai @ Dec 11 2014, 03:51 PM)
...
Regarding the case of HS and gray areas, I've recently just remembered about the death of Uzzah. Despite his good intentions, he still died due to disobedience.
...
*
imho, it's not releveant. Uzzah died, sky is blue, are nothing related to HS and gray areas.

What related is, GOD's always in control.

Do what HS told you to do and live ? not always.
Do what HS told you to do and die ? maybe.

At the end, it's our relationship with Christ that matters. Not dead / alive / obey / disobedience.
de1929
post Dec 12 2014, 07:50 AM

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QUOTE(amosai @ Dec 12 2014, 12:08 AM)
I respectfully disagree with you. I feel it's very relevant as the circumstance surrounds should we do something against the law/rules/etc if it's for a good cause. Uzzah like your circumstance did something with a good intention (to prevent the ark from falling/ save people) by going against what God has said ( Action of holding the ark/ action of bribery), but the end result doesn't look very favorable from the viewpoint of Uzzah.

From what I see from this particular scripture/story , there seems to be no room for sin even with good intention. Of course, this is reading the story as it is (independent of other information) , without any historical knowledge beforehand.

I think it covers the using illegal methods for a good cause. But does not cover gray areas in specific regarding types of music/movies/books or other gray areas.
*
grace brother grace biggrin.gif ... the more you know about GOD's grace, the less worry you are.

why don't you replace uzzah story with lazarus ? both died, one alive one still dead.

Allow me to assume, you picked uzzah cuz your lack knowledge / lack experiences of GOD's grace, lead you to believe that, uzzah good intentions (but results in dead) overshadow GOD's grace that raise lazarus from dead.

smith wigglesworth rebuked dead many times. In year 2014, in can conclude easily dead can be rebuked. don't worry too much about dead, or "Dead". (i mean "dead" as circumstances that it not salvageable using common understanding).

don't worry about dead. by GOD's grace given to me, here i can raise u from dead. If you need bigger faith than me, simple, contact UW biggrin.gif
de1929
post Dec 12 2014, 04:54 PM

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QUOTE(amosai @ Dec 12 2014, 03:10 PM)
I am not exactly worried about death nor am I talking about death lol, you seem to be deviating from the point I am trying to make.
*
ok, i understand you are not implying afraid of death.

QUOTE(amosai @ Dec 12 2014, 03:10 PM)
...
I am just saying that story of Uzzah is an example of using a wrong method for the right reasons. And the end result isn't nice.
...
*
I understand the depth of your message.

let's project uzziah mistake into 3 dates: 12 dec (today), 1st dec (past), 4th dec (past). I didn't mean to twist bible, but try to separate between action / reaction so i have to use 3 dates (1, 4, 12 and 12 is today).

Today is 12 dec.

Uzziah made mistake on 1st dec, and on 4th dec uzziah dead (e.g. okay). On 12 dec uzziah parents then has lesson learned that it is not wise to touch ark regardless good / bad intention.

It is unpleasant to know that today (12 dec), somebody told me i made mistake on 1st dec, therefore on 4th dec some terrible things was happened.

---

Once i question GOD how can i make sure that i will not make any mistakes.

technically i want security regardless i am aware or not, regardless i have the knowledge, regardless i know the regulation or not.

I want my future is secured from any mistakes, which skills / knowledge i don't have.

---
answer
---

GOD's grace biggrin.gif.

more sin more grace that's what's written in bible.
sin oso meaning hamartia, meaning inaccurate.
The more inaccurate, the more grace.

I think you don't know GOD's grace as deep as i am. GOD's grace has completely different meaning from your perspective imho.

---
back to uziah
---
old testaments does not exercise GOD's grace as radical as of 2014. therefore uziah died nobody rebuke death in order for bible to record ....
but in new testament, lazarus didn't make mistake, but Jesus purposedly to be late so lazarus died. At the end lazarus was resurected.

---
result not nice ?
---
There will be GOD's grace for any shortcoming that you will do in the future.
do not worry biggrin.gif

---
let me know if you don't get my message.

This post has been edited by de1929: Dec 12 2014, 05:36 PM
de1929
post Dec 13 2014, 08:01 AM

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QUOTE(amosai @ Dec 12 2014, 11:03 PM)
I still don't get the part why you have to mention lazarus though o.0. The only thing that's similar is both died. In fact, all of the characters in Bible died except for one or two which could no longer be found and there's also Jesus too.

I don't see the connection you're trying to make from lazarus to uzzah @.@. I am frankly speaking confused except for the part about grace. I know that when you make a mistake, there's always grace of God. But I thought the topic we're discussing at hand is whether an action which is stated as a sin can be used for a good intention is right/wrong. That's before the grace of God sets in provided that the particular action is wrong. If it's right in the first place, then there's no aftereffect where God's grace need to be discussed.

*
GOD's grace is multidimensional. It means, first you have to imagine a dice. A dice has 6 faces. And each face has unique explanations. If i want to explain about 100% meaning of a dice, then the listener must understand all 6 faces of dice as best as i know.

A dice represent GOD's grace. Imho, you know only 1 or 2 faces. not all 6 of them.

Does GOD's grace has 6 explanations ? it's more actually. GOD's grace it's not a dice. I just use dice to explain the richness of GOD's grace.

1. GOD's grace saves human kind from sin. I think this part you know already
2. GOD's grace direct your thinking to GOD as a good GOD. Not the punisher ones.
3. GOD's grace gives you provision, health, wealth to make you content
4. GOD's grace gives purpose in your life.
5. GOD's grace gives you empowerment to complete anything GOD's want.
6. GOD's grace gives you access to spiritual realm without cost you unnecessary things.
7. GOD's grace gives you confidence to come to GOD when you screwed up (aka made mistake)
8. GOD's grace gives you faith, to trust without empirical proofs
9. GOD's grace helps you think positive regardless whatever happen in your surroundings
10. GOD's grace gives you enough money to tithe, to benefit your self.
11. GOD's grace becomes more when sin is more.
12. For reader of purpose driven life book from rick warren, GOD's grace is the only option to make your purpose driven life 100% match with GOD's perfect will
13. GOD's grace is the only reason you can do miracles
14. GOD's grace gives you abundant knowledge to know do spiritual warfare
15. GOD's grace makes you overcomer. David can kill goliath because of GOD's grace.
16. GOD's grace reduce fear. This is one of the way to measure whether you are operated in GOD's grace or not. How much fear you have in your thoughts or feels ?
17. GOD's grace makes you blessed.
18. GOD's grace leads you from victory to victory.
19. GOD's grace will make you productive. It's not making you counter productive.
20. GOD's grace enable you to rest, regardless fear / worries happens.
21. GOD's grace will tell you what to ask, so it will be given.
22. GOD's grace will give you something called GOD's presence. A condition where spiritual presence of GOD manifest deeper than usual. Mostly happen in pentecostal churches during services only.
23. GOD's grace gives you ability to discern things, which one from GOD, which one are manipulative (even it is in good faith).

These list still growing, but the basic questions, do you get the depth of GOD's grace up to these few points ?

How about uzziah ? in short, he does not have GOD's grace.

As you are to concern about uzziah, my advise is not to equalize amosai = uzziah. It's counter productive.

QUOTE(amosai @ Dec 12 2014, 11:03 PM)
Ya you're right. I am a second generation Christian. =). I've been a part of worship teams where the pastors themselves are trying to create a smooth flow for the Holy Spirit to flow. There's nothing wrong with that but I somehow feel it's manipulative to manipulate the environment in such a way (although I know that they are out of good intention). I've felt so many "emotional kicks" during worship that I feel it's just the music that makes us behave and feel something special but is not presence of God to me.

I've started to embrace doubt and start questioning because I wouldn't be able to give satisfying answers to non-believers as they question. Because often times the answers given by pastors/leaders/christians in general are just not enough or just one sided without any logical explanations (some there aren't, but I believe most are and can be logically explained).

I did enjoy these discussions and will take a hard look at how I read the Bible to see how could I answer these doubts better.
*
empowerment is the key. You do have GOD's grace. But it's not enough. Just ask more.

as you mention "holy spirit to flow". i assumed you are pentecostal background.

in simple english, do you have empowerment yesterday ? or you feel defeated yesterday ? that's the easy way to measure GOD's grace.

--- closing, monthly living cost example ---

as closing, let's assume your rental, electric, food and monthly you need RM1000. Monthly RM1000. I think GOD's grace operated in you is only RM100 to max RM500. That's why every month you are short. And you are short a lot, almost 50% from your calling.

uhm how about mine ? i find myself operated around RM1 million. Enough to feed other household even if they costed monthly around RM10k to RM15k.

Using your imagination, can you imagine the rich and depth of GOD's grace in my life, that i can say i have RM1 million ringgit per month ? brows.gif brows.gif brows.gif





de1929
post Dec 13 2014, 04:37 PM

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QUOTE(amosai @ Dec 13 2014, 11:55 AM)
Frankly speaking, we seem to be on opposite ends of the book as we're clearly both talking about different matters. You emphasize a lot on grace which biblically speaking ya, it's true. I know what you're talking about. God's grace is upon all of us. Whether we receive it or not is the question. But as I was talking about Uzzah, there was no relation to grace. Why do I say so? Because there was no emphasis on it in the story. Did God say anything in relation that Uzzah does not have enough of "God's Grace"? No. But the story shows that when you go against what God has said in spite of good intention, God still abides to the rules He set up thus Uzzah died.

Can you use right/good intention to justify sin? In Uzzah's story, no. Because clearly he died because of it. That's the moral of the story. There was no mention of God's grace.

Now, let's put it in today's context, you cheat/bribe/lie for a good intention. You didn't die. That's where God's Grace comes in when you realize what you do is wrong/sinful. You go to God to repent and for forgiveness.

You're trying to imply that I think God doesn't forgive or tolerate my mistakes as if He is like a human judge that is unable to sympathize and has to follow the law completely. Thus, you conclude that I don't have God's grace as per your closing. I understand He isn't like that, He was able to sympathize with us.  IF God does exist as according to the Bible, I know He will catch us with a net of God's Grace. For goodness sake, He sent His Son to die for our mistakes. The cross is more than enough said about God's Grace.

But the matter we're talking about is whether can you use right/good intention to justify sin (whether it's lying/bribing/stealing)? The answer is no looking from Uzzah's story.
*
Bro, i here to give you testimony that my mindset works. my way to know GOD works. Testimony is the key. My mindset produces good testimony. regardless what happen to uzzah

i want you to success like me, but unfortunately, your mindset need to change. whatever you wrote above will not make you produce testimonty like me. Cuz like u say, you deserted Christ right ?

I have victorious life, i am an overcomer. Do you want to be like me ? then follow my mindset. biggrin.gif ... you need to undone some of what you learned in the past. especially most of christian mindset you have that betray your destiny.

i don't know what you want. Do you want to success like me, or you want to convince me that uzzah sucks ?
de1929
post Dec 14 2014, 07:46 AM

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QUOTE(General Fahmy @ Dec 14 2014, 12:05 AM)
Yeah tell me about it. After I got "chairs" thrown at me for coming to God. Just as I thought I am welcome into his family, I suddenly realise the same people who claim to be my brothers and sisters are just as good as the unbelievers out there. Come to church also kena "chairs" thrown at me by my so-called brothers and sisters. Yeah, the time my dad got into a serious injury. I told my cg members about this, but you know what? None of them turn up to visit my father. IN the end, it was my unbeliever friends, relatives who visited my father.

Just ask that idiot church Chaaaris. When I ask them to be my friend, they say they got no time. Sheesh, what a bunch of fakes. When they pray, by the way, they have no skills in prayer, DUMC people can pray for hours, these jokers don't know how to pray at all. THey just go for a 30 sec prayer. When they pray, they dare to proclaim me as their brother, wth? Brother in christ, is a contract for friendship, i don't care. If they say otherwise, this makes them liars.
*
you should try pusat injil kelana jaya. It's near brothers car accessories shop. I don't have exact location. Warm people, traditional church, no speaking in tongue, no expensive church gadgets... good enuf for you ?
de1929
post Dec 14 2014, 09:16 AM

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QUOTE(amosai @ Dec 14 2014, 09:10 AM)

You.... LOL..... I am speechless because of how these conversations are so lopsided with you LOL, unlike the one I have with UnknownWarrior, at least we understand both sides of the argument, you on the other hand is just looking at only your viewpoint. I give up trying to tell you something, you are too fixed on yourself, you don't even look at the story independent of your feelings (or at least try to). Oh well, if you do believe you're victorious, more power to you =).

*
thanks i received by faith biggrin.gif you will be victorious as well.
de1929
post Dec 14 2014, 03:07 PM

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QUOTE(amosai @ Dec 14 2014, 09:10 AM)
...
It doesn't work for me as there is another part of my brain that questions its logicality if I simply just believe.
...
*
About logicality ? have you ever think to follow somebody because he is more success than you ? like follow my mindset for example. I do have victorious life. I oso overcomer flex.gif

I think i found it very logical to follow somebody more successful than mine. You can follow me, and my teaching, if your surrounding sucks.

logic enuf for you ?

de1929
post Dec 15 2014, 10:29 PM

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QUOTE(General Fahmy @ Dec 15 2014, 04:40 PM)
small church, afterward you know who I am.
*
QUOTE(General Fahmy @ Dec 15 2014, 05:49 PM)
scared DUMC people come and backstab me.
*
aiyoo fahmi... you must be celebrity... awak pelakon ke ?

This post has been edited by de1929: Dec 15 2014, 10:32 PM
de1929
post Dec 16 2014, 08:33 AM

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Jesus Solved Problems


http://www.7culturalmountains.org/apps/art...hor=&fldTopic=0
de1929
post Dec 17 2014, 07:53 AM

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QUOTE(General Fahmy @ Dec 16 2014, 11:12 PM)
I am not worry about myself. I am just worry about my special friend, I don;t want to bring my special friend and then the people there say nasty things about me.
*
then it's obvious you are lacking of public relation skills biggrin.gif ... why fahmi ? why don't you wear mask / being pretender with another church member brows.gif

you need a church for your special friend right ?
de1929
post Dec 17 2014, 12:17 PM

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QUOTE(General Fahmy @ Dec 17 2014, 11:35 AM)
my gf is from another church.

I just embarass to bring her to my so called church which is no.1 in backstabbing people.

Yeah, i myself have witness a cg leader bad mouthing other members until they kena blacklisted.

No public relation skill can cover slander and rumor mongering. People like to hear garbage slander n believe it, what to do.
*
then you need to change ur girlfren paradigm / mindset

tell her, nobody perfect. backstabbing is natural response from people, regardless religious or not religious.

Key no 1 is to win people heart, instead of finding perfect person.

when organization grew, ppl will get close to somebody that they trust. be the leader, not the follower.

instead of being weak and need attention / care, just come to church as you are come to a client office to do presentation.

convince them that you are good.

when you reap goodness, goodness will come back to you.

mindset lahh bro... overcomer lah sikit like me biggrin.gif
de1929
post Dec 17 2014, 04:27 PM

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QUOTE(pehkay @ Dec 17 2014, 01:05 PM)
O_X ... how is that any different from being political?
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what do you mean political ?

in my life, i don't know whether it's political or not, i have tier 1 fren, tier 2 fren, tier 3 fren, then accuintances. it's not numbers that matter, but how i group my influencers in my life.

influencer can grow / shrink from tier 1-2-3 or 3-2-1.

de1929
post Dec 17 2014, 11:17 PM

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QUOTE(De_Luffy @ Dec 17 2014, 08:30 PM)
you do not understand his situation here so please stop giving wrong message doh.gif
*
bro, i understand his situation. fahmi likes to complain. therefore ppl that complain with other church member does not practice public relation skills at all. How to win public opinion if complaaaaaaaaaaaaaainnnn all the time ?

QUOTE(De_Luffy @ Dec 17 2014, 10:12 PM)
bro, if you read back my previous posting about a church pastor son marrying a woman who is a former drug addicts, how he tell off the congregations what Jesus said?

if you are bold enough to bring her to your current church, just bear with it, i think after some time there slandering things will wane
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bro... stop being naive okay... that thing (your post about a church pastor son marrying a woman who is a former drug addict) works because the son bring to his father church. The son play politics hahaha... things you don't like. The son leverage his father position and his father influence to... influence ppl with good value.

If the son bring to other church, he will ended up bullied like fahmy. soon or later

you think some times there slandering things will wane ? no it won't. the slandering will be more heavier week after week... reality bro...

unless you are a pastor's son then different story lahh... pastor son's can do all good things inside his father church... of course... pastor's children anyway.

are you pastor's son ? you wrote like one and think like one.

This post has been edited by de1929: Dec 17 2014, 11:18 PM
de1929
post Dec 18 2014, 08:21 AM

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QUOTE(De_Luffy @ Dec 18 2014, 12:24 AM)
does you ever read the scripture at all? what make you think this does not happened? don't you forget what Jesus message to Peter in His Vision to him on Simon the Tanner boat?
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read bible and live empowered by GOD's grace are two different things. Many christians know bible but never know empowerment from GOD's grace.

QUOTE(De_Luffy @ Dec 18 2014, 12:24 AM)
also Jesus said do not discriminate, i don't feel like he is complaining he is just lamenting his issue with the church elders
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ok lah wording / language issue imo. But basicly it has the same root. Unsatisfactory and too much focus on lacking instead of abundance.

QUOTE(De_Luffy @ Dec 18 2014, 12:24 AM)
and what make you think being in church need a public relation skill? In the church you communicate with your church members hell, i've been jeered by other members too or even told off for a minor things does that dampen me to mingle with the church members? i am not even close with the church elders but i do respect them, if i am not ok with the elder, will just tell him why i am not happy with him/her
*
this writings demonstrate you don't have deep relationships with church leadership team.

I don't expect your church elders share their deepest concern / problems / issue with you and i am sure they never ask you to carry the big burden they have with you.

Oh, typical christian. Soon or later if GOD called you for bigger things, you will need extra hands.
de1929
post Dec 18 2014, 11:15 AM

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QUOTE(General Fahmy @ Dec 17 2014, 11:05 PM)
Wow, in which dimension, you reap goodness, goodness will come back to you? ...

*
i should write you sow goodness, you reap goodness. But i think the whole reply you understand the principle of reaping and sowing. It's biblical, you can google or i can find it for you if you asked bible verse

QUOTE(General Fahmy @ Dec 17 2014, 11:05 PM)
...
Jesus did so many good things while he was alive, but he was humiliated and crucified at the Cross by his enemies. ..
*
at the end his father promote HIM and put everything under HIS feet. reap and sow.

QUOTE(General Fahmy @ Dec 17 2014, 11:05 PM)
...
When you do good things, you don't expect anything in return.
...
*
This is poverty mindset. You should expect anything in return and you should speak provision for what good things you sow in the past. The result, let it happen according to GOD's grace and timing.

It's true with your mouth and body language you don't expect people to pay you back, but your mindset and spiritual attitude you must speak provisions. These are 2 different things.

If you oversimplify by telling: don't expect anything in return;this simplicity will turn your life into poverty mentality.

QUOTE(General Fahmy @ Dec 17 2014, 11:05 PM)
...
You serve because you want love God not because you want goodness to come back to you.
...
*
That's fine. But remember there is an organizational structure called church. Where leadership structure exist. If you want to love GOD, love HIS church.
Inside church there are different people with different communication skills and sure friction happens.

Go support your church leaders so your leader can effectively completing GOD's task in his hand.

QUOTE(General Fahmy @ Dec 17 2014, 11:05 PM)
...
If I wanted attention, I would have liked to have more bad mouthing wouldn't I? Like Paris Hilton and Kim Kardashian, they live on attention seeking. But I prefer to be anonymous.

Body of Christ have all sorts of talents. Some are good in leadership, some are good at convincing, some are good at doing work in the background. I am the one that does work in the background. One doesn't have to be a leader all the time because God gave us all different talents to serve.
*
Pretty much i agree with this statement

de1929
post Dec 18 2014, 11:17 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Dec 18 2014, 11:12 AM)
haiyooo you guys still arguing.
*
wazzup bro smile.gif
de1929
post Dec 18 2014, 12:27 PM

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QUOTE(De_Luffy @ Dec 18 2014, 11:37 AM)
What make you think I am not close or in good term with my church elders? Please read my context properly before you comments please
...
*
funny lah you... read your Post #1254

i am not even close with the church elders but i do respect them
de1929
post Dec 18 2014, 06:50 PM

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QUOTE(De_Luffy @ Dec 18 2014, 12:32 PM)
One more thing to add here do share your views on christianity but not forcing it on others.

Imagine this, you already own TV A just bought it recently less than 6 months then one you go shopping around in the mall salesman keep pestering you to buy his new TV product which TV B, the TV spec is not much difference from your current TV just added a few features only

My question now is would you be happy if you were in that situation? Put yourself in other shoe before trying to force other on your ideology
*
huh... i am running for my race. Help me and you will be prosper.

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