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 Aircon Discussion v2, Continuing on from previous AC topics

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cherroy
post Nov 26 2014, 10:17 PM

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QUOTE(aztechx @ Nov 26 2014, 08:07 PM)
yeaa!! i was actually considering the same thing as i remembered my parents house using a normal plug to connect to the aircond, but was told by a few electrician that i have to pull the wire from the mainbox which really confused me. Using your suggestion would definitely save me a lot of time and money.

So it is possible to extend the wire from my typical plugs as in the diagram below? there is a power plug right below those switches
user posted image
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You need to check and calculate properly the total load of the wire (if you decided to pull from one of plug point) that do not exceed the maximum ability of the wire.

QUOTE(kimsim @ Nov 26 2014, 08:16 PM)
There is not much an issue, my rear bedroom forgot to install power also and the Aircon man tap from the original socket for support 2x1.5hp also don't have much issue, becoz bedroom socket really never used much and sharing for fridge or water heater that is bigger issue of this, if you still worried then go for inverter aircond the original input watts very minimum, unlike non inverter for each secs used the same input watts for supply compressor runs.

Inverter got part loan meant the energy will reduce from 100% to 50% after temp. are reached.
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This is ill advice.

Inverter at full blown (when start operate time), it consume the same amount with non-inverter, just ability to run at partial load in operation afterwards (when the room is cool enough), that result in saving in electricity and draw less current.

Inverter is not using less current by default.
At 100% running, inverter still consume high current.

Despite many time explanation, seems like still not getting the right understanding of inverter. doh.gif
cherroy
post Nov 26 2014, 10:26 PM

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QUOTE(aztechx @ Nov 26 2014, 07:49 PM)
Guys, below is the photo of my condo unit and im planning to install and aircond in the hall

my mistake was not preparing the aircond point before installing the plaster ceiling which is a major headache now

user posted image
Red is where i would like to place my aircond
Blue is my mainbox

I cant put the aircond at the balcony door due to my plan to raise up the curtain all the way to the ceiling.

My question is:
1) is it possible to put my aircond there?
2) Will there be any permanent damage to my plaster ceiling after they hack it to place the cables?
3) can the air cond wiring go through that beam in the middle?
4) How much will it roughly cost for the wiring works?

Thanks
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1) possible
2) Plaster ceiling can be "re-patched" after the job done, not much an issue.
3) No contract will want/dare to drill through a beam, so you need to round it.

You need to check properly in term of load capability of wire and your total loop of the wire, from the point that wish to pull/loop for the air-cond if decided not using directly from the DB.

As even you see is just a plug point, sometimes there is plenty of loop sharing the same supply behind that you do not see.

And also, the rating of the wire pulled original that can carry how much load (A).

Easy way to check, is off the Circuit breaker in the DB, see how many point do not have current, then already know how many loop has been applied on the single pull of wire.

cherroy
post Nov 27 2014, 02:21 PM

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QUOTE(kimsim @ Nov 26 2014, 10:38 PM)
Inverter standard preset was 25C vs non inverter 23C from the starting power draw was lesser.

Don't forget inverter is variable BTU and full detect on actual temperatures indoor & outdoor also variable speed and runs.

With compare to non inverter high power input from maximun draw..

So in day time was runing higher speed or low speed as what you set on... From non inverter you can't set to 27C these was compressor stop runs.
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I shake head with the reply.

In term of wire consideration, you considered the maximum current draw by the appliances, as it is a very dangerous to let cable to run over its rated capacity whereby wire can get hot and burn.

Please don't spread false understanding that inverter draw less current hence can loop the wire easily as compared to non-inverter. It is an ill and dangerous advice which could cost life!

They both draw the same amount of current at full blown.

Panasonic non-inverter 1 HP CU-C9QKH
https://www.panasonic.com/my/consumer/home-...r/cs-c9qkh.html
Running current = 3.6A
Powerinput = 790W

Panasonic inverter 1HP (CU-S10PKH) https://www.panasonic.com/my/consumer/home-.../cs-s10pkh.html
Running current = 3.6A
Power input = 225-920W

York YWM10L 1HP non inverter
Total current 4.38A

York Y5WMY10JF 1HP inverter http://www.scribd.com/doc/142020182/York-Inverter-Catalog

Total current 1.63~5.06A

The inverter at full blown can draw more than non-inverter.
As you need AC need to convert to DC for inverter motor to run, there may be conversion loss as well in between.
cherroy
post Jan 27 2015, 10:47 AM

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QUOTE(earthling1984 @ Jan 27 2015, 02:04 AM)
Repost:

Planning to change my old aircon. Recommendation pls?

Master bedroom, 1.5hp, don't need inverter cause more exp, don't wanna change pipe etc.,

Normal or ionizer also ok. Got ionizer machine in room already.

Price and place to buy recommendation would be good too. Thank you...

Research so far...
Pana - most common
Mitsubishi - slightly more exp than pana
Daikin - bad customer service/warranty
korean brands - not as good as jap

So far leaning toward mitsubishi with plasma, rm1450 1.5hp inclusive install. Good price? 4 stars if not wrong.
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Not to recommend, just share experience.

My office just replaced an old air-cond Pana (with plasma) that already a decade old with basic non-inverter 1.5HP Pana at about Rm1230.
Installation fee I guess was about RM180.

Surprisingly, it is quiet and cool (not the like someone said non-inverter is noisy and not cool). tongue.gif

The cooling effect is better than the old air-cond (also 1.5HP) with plasma one.

May be the plasma feature that installed at the cooling fin affect the air-flow a bit, I don't know, as I saw a rectangular plastic plate at sit in front of the cooling fin.
cherroy
post Jan 27 2015, 11:30 AM

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QUOTE(kimsim @ Jan 27 2015, 11:15 AM)
Pana non-inverter old batch outdoor condenser size was : 650x511x230mm depth for 1.5hp maybe that is unlucky bought that batch.

Even now the latest batch CS-PC12QKH also come with bigger size : 780x542x289mm.
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You don't measure the compressor casing dimension as a gauge whether the compressor is more powerful or not.

It is just a casing dimension. Dimension can be made smaller by a more compact design.

One should look at the compressor rated power as the indicator, not casing dimension.



cherroy
post Feb 24 2015, 02:37 PM

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QUOTE(hushymushy @ Feb 24 2015, 01:54 PM)
dear sifus.....i have been using panasonic airconds in my house

no matter how i vacuum my entire house which help reduce the dust tremendously....on top of the daily floor mopping and weekend walls vacuuming and fan cleaning....
the aircon filter get's clogged up within 3 weeks and some dust actually went through the standard mesh filters....as a result.....i need to get a technician to take down the indoor unit and wash it thoroughly almost like every 10 months to 1 yr

i read earlier bro kimsim proposing to put some filters on top the mesh filter....

instead of doing that, can i replace with this Honeywell Filter A Universal Carbon Pre-filter, HRF-AP1 totally?

how else can i reduce the dust level from clogging the aircon?
i've tried adding air purifiers in the room, constant vacuum cleaning

my house is pet free and no construction from neighbours...plus its not near any main road
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It is nothing to do with whatever brand of air-cond or air-cond issue, it is your surrounding.
Quite common if nearby got construction work going on whereby lot of dirt flying around.

You may "choke" or clog the air-cond air flow faster by putting extra layer of filter, aka reduce air-flow significantly, and drive up the electricity consumption.

You put up extra layer of filter, the extra layer of filter also will be clogged after 3 weeks, which I don't see any much different with standard set up, except you may have a "cleaner" blower inside but at the expense of reduced air-flow.

There is a reason why the filter given by manufacturer is not "thick" and "dense", as it may significantly affect the air-flow.
cherroy
post Feb 24 2015, 03:46 PM

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QUOTE(billylau @ Feb 24 2015, 03:35 PM)
Hi guys,

Currently my condo is equipped with York inverter air conditioner from the developers. When I moved in I had this issue below with the aircond.
1. Turned on the aircond at night and it auto shut off few hours later with blinking light on the aircond unit.
2. Despite turning it off and on, it still shows blinking light and not working.

My temporary solution?
Only if I shut it off completely for after 30 mins or so, and turn it back on, the aircond will works again for few hours.

I tried to search the aircond manual, but could not find anything related to this.
I thought it could be the Timer setting, but do not know how to turn the Timer thingie off. What I did is to set the Timer on at 530pm and Timer off at 500pm. So far it still works.

Anyone has encounter such issue before?
Greatly appreciate for any guidance.
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Timer problem, gas leaking that resulted auto-cut off to protect the compressor, PCB faulty etc problem are the possibility.

Get the technician to check.

There was a similar topic before.
https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/1897941/all
cherroy
post Feb 25 2015, 11:41 AM

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QUOTE(kimsim @ Feb 24 2015, 04:20 PM)
Very simple to check for wiring an issue.

Just remove up FCU cover and look at wiring input.

And use test pen and see blue color wiring if light turn on that mean wiring has an issue.
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You can't test wiring issue by simple this method and it is not advisable to be done on someone do not know about electricity.

This is ill advice statement to start with.

cherroy
post Feb 26 2015, 03:04 PM

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QUOTE(kimsim @ Feb 25 2015, 08:58 PM)
R22 like such old fork would preferring.. We can avoid just don't buy with R22 gas only...

M'sia is a poor country the most current user still prefer over R22 as well.
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You need to ask developer, why pre-installed concealed piping that cater for R22.
Owner has little choice except installing R22 air-cond, otherwise, hacking can be a major and costly rework.

We need legislation to insist developer to pre-installed R410 cater piping, by then there will be more and more people using inverter.
cherroy
post Apr 4 2015, 04:00 PM

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QUOTE(kimonosabe @ Apr 4 2015, 02:51 PM)
Must be round pin socket 15A installed at the wall? 
So at the fusebox, can I simply change the existing 10A to 15A from hardware shop?
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QUOTE(kimsim @ Apr 4 2015, 02:57 PM)
Just buy the wall socket and plug together then change by self
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WARNING

Please do not do so, this is ill advice by saying just change the socket and plug that already can become 15A.

It is about wire size that dictate how much current can be carried along the wire.
You change the socket and plug, won't instantly the wire can carry the load of 15A, so does changing the fuse won't able the wire to carry above its rated ampere as well.

You will overheat the wire by overloading the wire above its rated ampere that it can carry and could cause spark or fire as well.

A 1.0/1.5HP aircond doesn't consume more than 10A
cherroy
post Apr 4 2015, 04:21 PM

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QUOTE(kimsim @ Apr 4 2015, 04:05 PM)
No such thing lah.. if the originally wall scoket was using below the photo type of wires.. no mater how you change also wont effected.. BTW new aircon installer wont be the user itself..

user posted image
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Every size of wire got its own rating.

Your statement could cause people house caught fire, possible casualty which is serious issue.

If do not know, please do not post ill advice, Ty.
cherroy
post Apr 4 2015, 04:31 PM

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QUOTE(kimsim @ Apr 4 2015, 04:27 PM)
caught fire meant is overloaded tap from normal wall socket with using 3 core wires type right...

like a instant heater also tap from MSB and applied for 15A wall socket doesn't seems got issue..
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From DB to the socket, if the wire size installed is 13A rated, then you only can use 13A, changing the fuse at DB and socket/plug won't enable the wire to carry 15A.

Changing fuse and socket will enable you to use 15A (as you change bigger size fuse and socket, it won't trip), but current pass through the wire doesn't have "eye", it still pass through the 13A wire, but the wire get hot and potential caught fire.
cherroy
post Apr 4 2015, 04:37 PM

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QUOTE(kimsim @ Apr 4 2015, 04:27 PM)
caught fire meant is overloaded tap from normal wall socket with using 3 core wires type right...

like a instant heater also tap from MSB and applied for 15A wall socket doesn't seems got issue..
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You need to look for the incoming wire size and rated before it can be tapped.

If the installed wire size is 20A then tapping for a 15A, no issue.
But the the installed wire size is 13A one, tapping for a 15A socket/usage is overloading the wire already.

You need to calculate the load of the wire before tapping, not simply looping/tapping without knowing, this is very dangerous.
cherroy
post Apr 4 2015, 04:42 PM

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QUOTE(kimsim @ Apr 4 2015, 04:36 PM)
Oh i dun think the aircon man didn't advise from the user must be change the fuse from normal C16 to C32.
that's very common wireman or aircon man would facing after they leave and user complain current trip out.
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Tripping has its reason,
if the circuit breaker is tripping due to overload, it is good sign the circuit breaker is working properly.

Every DB, fuse, circuit breaker (CB) is designed and calculated its load already, if C16 is pre-installed on one of the line, it means they install the wire size to match its load. Do not install oversize CB, it defy the purpose of having circuit breaker.

Just like fuse, if it keep on burned out, it means something is wrong between the wire. Don't try to bypass it with a copper wire (similar to oversize fuse).


cherroy
post Apr 11 2015, 09:49 AM

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QUOTE(kimonosabe @ Apr 11 2015, 07:00 AM)
How to ascertain the wire size inside the wall?
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Diameter of copper wire inside the wire.
Sometime, there is printing on the wire itself.

Generally, little put oversize wire one, as copper wire is costly, so if the socket is intended for 13A, mostly, they will install a 13A rated wire size, and circuit breaker size accordingly.

PS: Engage with professional wireman for any intended change of usage of a socket. As it is not something should be taken lightly.
cherroy
post May 26 2015, 11:07 AM

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QUOTE(^Ware^wolf @ May 25 2015, 03:19 PM)
i never believe non-inverter air con will be silent than inverter...thats bull shit as well... my neighbor staying opposite me is using non inverter... the noise level is unbearable ..luckily my overpriced flat unit is not directly facing the blackies....
imagine i can listen to the compressor sound if i stay at living hall ....my flat very small unit only...less than 1400sf ,... thumbup.gif  thumbup.gif
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One needs to understand the difference between inverter and non-inverter.

Compressor basically work the same and if proper installed and no defect in the manufacturer, all shouldn't be too noisy, according to the manufacturer's noise db published.

The difference can come from that inverter compressor has the ability to run at partial load when achieve desired condition, running at partial load or rpm, the quieter the compressor can be, as well as less wear and tear on the bearing etc.
Noise can be come from wear bearing sometimes.


QUOTE(soonlee33 @ May 26 2015, 12:59 AM)
During calculation , how do we split the ratio between full load and partial load ? Usually full load run for how long ?
Thanks
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It depends on the condition, inverter will run partial loan when achieving the pre-set temperature, if your room has low heat loss aka better insulation, no sun light, window leaking air, then the inverter need not to run at full load most of the time.

Inverter basically work the same with non-inverter when running full load time, particularly when the air-cond starting time that running at full load.

The saving of inverter come from ability to run at partial load, instead of non-inverter that running 100% or 0%.
Inverter doesn't automatically save your electricity, it is about how it is operating.
Compressor of inverter and non-inverter consume same amount of Watts (in fact inverter may be a little higher than non-inverter), so in full load time, there is no saving.
The saving come from the partial load period.
cherroy
post May 30 2015, 10:40 AM

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QUOTE(thomasjames @ May 30 2015, 10:04 AM)
yes. it still have warranty. only just two month. and i seldom open this air cond. probably 4-5 times until today.
your opinion will be on 'leaking' ??
is it means during outdoor unit installation process ?
or it still probably fault with the manufacturer ?

haiz. my bad luck. of all unit, my unit got this problem.

well, i am now in the tai-chi loop.  A point to B, B point to C, etc, etc
well, if any here thought it will cause by the installation of the outdoor unit. please post here.
I now will go for the option calling the shop sales person to contact manufacturer. dunno how long the entire resolution process will takes.
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It is condensate (the piping is cold with warm humid air out there, just like a glass of ice water, you have water outside of the glass), not something 'leaking".

Improper insulation of copper pipe during installation also can cause this problem, (the cold copper being exposed too much).

But rust normally happened after sometimes, which depended on the steel plate paints/coating material.
cherroy
post May 31 2015, 10:39 AM

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QUOTE(nateberuk @ May 31 2015, 09:00 AM)
should i go for 1hp or 1.5hp for my room..the room is small like 6'x6'..i heard 1.5hp quite saving for the gas instead 1hp..im using for night/sleep since now is very hot to sleep without it..and yes my pc is in the room
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1HP already overkill for a 6x6 size.


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