i have no idea what's up with the review, but from what i've seen in youtube, videos from the HD200 seem to be a little too.. shaky and vibrat-y.

man to use a steadycam all the time is much of a hassle defeating the quick points of point and shoot. It may be fine for some people, but i really think electronic/optical stabilization is mandatory, which will affect the quality of the overall video.

sotong168,
point taken. =) i could shoot steady video while walking but with a steadycam, there would be noticable difference.

C-Fu,

you're using HDV based camera 10x more exp than AVCHD based cam? My guess is a 20k-40k camera? Sounds more than an EX1, leaning on the EX3 but those aren't HDV. Even Canon XH and XL HDV series here are not too near the 40k mark. My best guess is, Canon series?

but i'm confused a little. miniDV tapes are about RM11 for panasonic pro grades a piece. what tapes do you use, mind sharing? =) and HDV file sizes are almost identical to DV, 2GB a minute? sounds like editing uncompressed 1440x1080. I'm guessing intermediate processing to a larger color space? Sounds larger than Cineform.

sounds like i could use a little learning from someone with a bigger budget. =) kewl..


Kytz: miniDV tapes which are widely available here record up to about 60-63 mins.

This post has been edited by FuGZ: Jun 12 2009, 10:11 AM

played with it at the shop in Canon Mid Valley last week. not bad... Pretty good dynamic range and a little brighter in low light, compared it with my HV20 side by side at F1.8 with the zebras on. Didn't buy it since 5k wasn't worth it since i'm looking for an upgrade.

btw Masculine and CPURanger, the 3MOS Panny models looks very nice and comes with very nice manual features. But from test footages i've seen, image quality is not in my favour. I see this in a different way, since i was looking for an upgrade from the Canon HV20, the cost wouldn't do justice for me. It sure does beat the HV20 in terms of the focus ring, looks, i'm guesinng the build quality (it looks like it's built like a tank) and being tapeless. But for someone who wants to buy a new camcorder, these Pannies wouldn't be a bad choice either.

BTW, HF S 100 retailing at RM4999 and HF S 10 at RM5999, Mid Valley Canon as displayed on the price tags.

CPURanger: Does 3MOS eliminate rolling shutter or was it just intended for better lowlight performance/image?

This post has been edited by FuGZ: Jun 15 2009, 11:38 AM

true, but you wouldn't be far off one camcorder to another at a certain price range in the consumer cam world. In terms of image quality, Canon's colour detail seems to look cleaner compared to Panny. You have to search for these videos in Vimeo and YouTube (and observe in HD mode), see it for yourself to have a better understanding. and when i say search, not observe 2-3 videos. You gotta check out loadsa videos, becuz everyone edits their videos differently that will deliver a different output, then you can have a rough picture.

I have to admit, i've seen alot of videos, but the Sony is impressive in shooting in AUTO mode. Manual can deliver better control over picture depending on the environment, but there are those who don't want to be bothered by it. Those who want manual controls simply go for the other brands. the 3MOS does sound good tho, it sounds like as if it will eliminate rolling shutter (or maybe not as bad as 1 CMOS), really handy if the camera goes through alot of motion/panning. When comes to video cameras, moving picture is the most important (otherwise it won't be video), where as everything else like sound, image quality and camera operator, compliment the quality of the overall video.

Top 3 consumer cams i love are Canon, Panny then Sony. Prosumer on the other hand would be Panny, Sony then Canon. If it was me, i'd buy the Canon HF S10 over the Panny.

This post has been edited by FuGZ: Jun 15 2009, 06:16 PM

CPURanger, thanks man. Yeah, i know what you mean with the pricing, but what to do, can't really catch up with technology. The Pannies have the focus rings, but the HF S10/S100 has a focus "knob" instead.

BTW, a little on tapeless and AVCHD workflow, i posted abit about it on my blog along with an intro to my new camera. Have a look and a little heads up what AVCHD does. http://point8cam.com/blog/?p=372

60 interlaced frames per sec..
by the way, SR12E (PAL) shoots at 50i, only the SR12 (NTSC) shoots at 60i. SR12E is for our local market.

Both should have the GPS function.

the E is a PAL system, whereas the V's a NTSC system. NTSC cams are generally cheaper but..

PAL = 50i (25p applicable to particular brands and models)
NTSC = 60i (30p, 24p same as the above)

It's fine buying an NTSC cam, but let's say a friend wants to shoot with you and utilize his cam as well. Chances are, his cam is prolly a PAL system cam. That's where you'd run into complication in post, and let's just say, it's not gonna save you time.

The GPS is a lil extra from this cam, but the XR series is in a class where the HFS10/100 belongs too. So naturally, it's not that expensive.

Cameras in MY and EU commonly shoot 50i anyways. It's normal since most of the consumer cameras shoot 1080i (540 lines) or 1080p (540lines with the rest of the lines interpolated). Cameras that shoot both at PAL and NTSC frequencies are obviously more expensive, but that doesn't apply to consumer cameras.. and what do you mean by, "It won't smooth out your video unless it is 60p or above."? My 1080/25p footage is smooth, 1080i is smoother and shooting at 720/50p is about the same with more detail. 50p/60p and above? That's either a Sony slow mo with the resolution cut down or prolly a RED ONE shooting at 2k at 120fps in the digital world, but only for an upperhand for slow mo purposes. that's above bluray standards, so for what purposes may i ask? And trust me, there is a diff between 50i and 25p in both post till playback on the tele. Skateboarding videos look totally different interlaced and progressive, interlaced looks alot more home video-ish.

It's more about video standards/colour. We can play NTSC playback no probs. But in NTSC lands, not all NTSC players can play PAL content without glitch. Plus, i'd keep mine on PAL, so if i work with another camera man here, his camera is most likely a PAL so we don't run into different framerates and 25p -> 24p is easy as a snap, time is saved.


btw saru88, go to the shop and check out the GPS availability if you're not buying it online.

1080i is actually 720p interlaced? care to explain further?

720p isn't half, 540p is half. 540 lines x 2 = 1080 lines. May i ask, which model shoots at real a 720p? i'm not very familiar with the sanyo but i'm sure most of the consumer cams shoot at 540 lines. And 50p -> 25p given the same output duration will give you a result as if it was shot in 25p, no where near looking like it was shot at 50p since all extra frames after the first will be dropped.

I haven't encountered any NTSC/PAL playback cuz PAL systems are made to playback NTSC mediums, but in the NTSC land it's a little different. Oh cool, your DC and videocam can capture in both pal and NTSC? wicked, what model is it?

But i'm thankful that both my cams shoot 50i, 25p and one of them at 50p. I can mix progressive and interlaced in single interlaced signal DVD output for both sports and cinematic features.

This post has been edited by FuGZ: Jul 4 2009, 05:22 PM

ronaldkwok, yeap, PAL playback hardware are built for NTSC playback. We don't have to worry about anything.

NTSCwise and consumerwise yes, 60i is the most common shooting mode. Not all video cameras have the 30p feature, 1 to name is Sony. Just like how not all of them have 24p or 24f.

mode 2 and 3 are debatable. You have better motion for 60i which is ideal for spots, and 30p for web streaming purposes, 24p for judder looking filmic purposes. but in consumer cams, the 30p is pretty much identical to it's 60i in terms of quality in each frame. it's just 60i being deinterlaced by blend method within the camera itself.


Masculine, what a happy snake, ahaha..

This post has been edited by FuGZ: Jul 5 2009, 12:51 PM

jackson5759, you might wanna check the preset you're shooting in. Make sure gain is set to off whatever mode you desire shooting in.

Not too familiar with the DVX, i use a HMC but they should be sorta similar. Whatever tape you use will still get you the same amount of effective pixels. Better tapes just last longer for archiving use and avoids dropped frames.

30mbps on hard drive? I'm thinking of buying a smaller video camera as a sidekick, which ones record at 30mbps?

Sounds cool, i'm just too curious to find out what format these cameras shoot in. What models are they? Mine records at max 24mbps AVCHD over Class 4 SDHC cards. Just wondering which cameras require Class 6 SDHC.

saru88, if you know anyone interested to buy a 35mm adapter (or with a HV30 camera paired with it), let me know. My friend's selling his.

I'm sorry, but i thought that model records in MPEG2 format at 35mbps just like the hm100u?

b48753,

how much is the HC9E going for now? It's funny how shops like to overprice old camcorders in Malaysia.

The Panny TM700 looks tasty, i just wonder how much i'd spend on a 2nd camera..

Wow, HC9 still fetching for a high price for an old generation camcorder.. but i kinda wanna get away from tapes since after having the HMC152. AVCHD's just fine i guess, i've always transcoded most formats to an intermediary codec before editing with.

Lovin the XR series from Sony but i'm quite anal over manual controls. And i still haven't seen any claimed improvement of 3MOS cover CMOS really. Prolly wait till the TM700 comes up on our local shelves..

I get zero artifacts converting my footage to MPEG2 tho, but only for delivery. Of course, the filesize ends up being 3 times the size. But to edit with, it's either Canopus HQ or Prores.

I have the HV20 actually. I moved on to buying my Panny cuz I needed better lowlight performance with zero gain. Damn was I a happy boy to see the difference, beats the HV20 by miles but of course, the price otherwise. Brightness being saturated? I'm sorry, i don't mean to correct you.. But I thought saturation applies to colour? I'm happy with 3CCD although it's not sharp as CMOS and without any rolling shutter. Colour controls are nice to be played around with especially when storing them into presets are possible!

Light exposed colour to burn keys.. are you referring to too saturated or simply overexposed? i'm sorry for the misunderstanding. I'm okay with clean non grain looks, since that can always be done in post or by adding gain during shoot. As for colour settings and stored presets, sorry to confuse you but i didn't mean white balance. I meant adjustments on detail, chroma, master pedestrial, gamma, knee, color matrix, etc. I would agree that CMOS is able to produce a much flatter contrast for better dynamic range compared to 3CCD cams, lovin the colour reproduction. I guess i ditched CMOS for the kind of shoots i have. Switched to CMOS for the reason of grain? I know opinions may differ but i get almost no grain shooting at no gain with HV20. Mind to share on the grainy side?

HV20 vs HV30, i'm sure you can find that both cameras use the same exact image sensor. Compare side by side at zero gain, you'll get the same results. Find out more from the fellas in the HV20/HV30 forums. It's even mentioned in camcorderinfo's review on the HV30 - "The 60i and 24P results are statistically identical with last year’s Canon HV20".

As for the AVCHD vs MPEG2 shot on the JVC HD40, the scenario seems to be 17mbps AVCHD vs 26.6mbps MPEG-2 which only applies to that camera. And it's no surprise, it was already mentioned that recording in MPEG-2 is the highest quality setting on this camera. Given a TM700 or HF S 21 which records in AVCHD VS the HD40 in MPEG-2, it's obvious which is the winner in terms of vertical resolution. In the end of the day, it really comes down to what the camera could do at its best settings. As much as head to head goes with cameras, small differences aren't noticeable to the general viewing audience unless you're doing some hardcore keying. Oooh gotta love 4:2:2..

In the end of my day, i want a second cam; a better CMOS camera!!

On another different note, i might wanna let go of my XLR-JR™ Single channel XLR adapter since it's just being idle in the house. Any takers? Allows the use of XLR mics, long XLR cables eg. for boom application. Previously used on my HV20, perfect working condition.

Old picture with the adapter attached

Thanks saru88 and b48753.
the hv20 is 43mm, lens 52mm so a step up ring is used. lens outer ring is 72mm which is fitted with the XH-A1 lens hood. I rarely use this camera now tho.
It's actually the Raynox HD-6600, you get 0.66X wider shots.