The ones that can take pictures have memory cards.

For a family video, you need a 3CCD camera.

NOT HD.

wide screen is a good extra, but NOT NECCESSARY.

get a HDD camera. you want something that is easy to edit, and quick to transfer. you want to focus more on putting it on DVD rather than messing with editing, transfer, etc.

The things you need are:

- 1 HDD camera
- A few batteries, get one BIG one


The things you need to know:

- DVD is not HD quality
- Your tv, your cousin's tv, everybody else's tv are not widescreen
- nobody really cares about picture quality MORE than what footage you have
- HD picture size is MANY, MANY, MANY TIMES BIGGER than Standard quality like DVD, TV. A lot more times bigger than Youtube size. so for you to get HD and eventually reducing that to saiz kecik, why bother la?

HD quality footage is only appreciable with HD quality display (plasma lcd etc), HD quality media (bluray, hddvd etc), HD quality CABLE (not the three yellow red white cable, but HDMI,etc)... HD everything.

so dont go and get HD just because uninformed people tells you to. HD is not important to you. HD is just an added feature that you don't need. what you want, is something light so you can move around easily, something that will stabilise your hand and your footage so its not shaky, something that you can capture even in low lighting condition, something that lasts loooong, something that can just be plugged to the tv and everybody can view what you shot after family dinner without messing with some crap stuff. Now THAT'S what you want.


people have been happy with just VHS family video many, many years ago. you'd be surprised that once people say "wah good quality" nobody really cares about that after they see the happy faces.



read the first few pages of what i wrote if you need more info about HD and what you actually need.

disclaimer: I own a production house

This post has been edited by C-Fu: Nov 4 2008, 01:25 PM

I'd rather pick on Sony DCR-SR55E. Should be cheaper, better low light quality, better picture quality, better everything lah. But if I'm not mistaken, Samsung SC-HMX20 should be a lot cheaper. And, BETTER. For lowlight, this is paling best in its class.


One thing need to consider while taking widescreen footage (HD or not) is that it is not advisable if you are holding it without support, like a tripod. if it's widescreen, then your footage will shake A LOT more than normal 4:3 resolution. one trick that you can try is that you tutup the top and bottom of your cam's lcd display with selotep so it's like shooting in widescreen, then in editing u cut the top and bottom of the footages lah. less shakiness, but proper (simulated) widescreen. one semi-indie hollywood movie "Tomorrow is Today" did something like this to get cinemascope-like image (very very wide, rectangular footage) plus HDV cam, with movie lens. Very effective


My video editor loves editing in HD, because of the richer colour than normal SD. although technically comparing the colour between DVCPRO50 and HDV or some of the HD flavour like 4:4:4 HDCAM SR is pretty much a stupid thing to do unless you have a superpower mahal nak mampus CALIBRATED monitor But comparing normal/SD cams to MPEG2/ MPEG4 picture like those from HDD cams then you do see better colour, but resolution wise (blur/clear or not) is pretty much depending on the camera.For me, more detail always means better lens and better/bigger chip. tu je.


One thing that I always tell people who want to shoot video: get BETTER, CLEARER audio. For video, you can get away with a lot of things - your shot teruk a bit, but nice looking people, setting not nice enough, but got really good action, etc like that. but if your audio is crappy, everything you have on video wont matter.

so get a cam that can get good, clear audio, and everybody will love whatever that you shoot. and to get a good audio is a lot easier if you have a positioned/focus mic - mic that take clear audio on a very narrow angle, not a mic that can take all the noise even from belakang camera wan. because the rationale is that humans always try to only listen to whatever that the eye focuses, right? maybe you can try to limit the angle that the mic captures by covering the sides of the cam by selotep the sides with some plastic ke, who knows

This post has been edited by C-Fu: Nov 5 2008, 01:54 AM

highest quality video - 50 mins.

for a short movie, don't care about wether ur using HD or not. most projectors for short movie festivals are normal VGA projectors anyway, not HD projectors. plus most of them require DVD, which is SD, not HD.

so this is PERFECT for you.


I used to be against HDD, but now HDD cams have matured. get one. SD or HD doesn't matter, chances are you would still record as standard definition (SD) since you're gonna use DVD in general (or youtube) to view your stuff right?

plus if you shoot in HD, your pc needs to be good enough to render, hdd space needs to be bigger, etc. so shoot in SD, you'd be a happy man. if your cam that u choose has HD function, use it after you've comfy with SD workflow (shoot->cucuk pc->copy file->masuk editing software->cut cut->render dvd) AVOID dvd cams. not exactly portable. a NIGHTMARE to edit.

as for point 3, consider the aspects that YOU want for YOUR movies that YOU are going to record. if you need long battery life, then find cams which has a good package with big battery lah. if u need long zoom for concert, vacation, then that SDR-SR26 is great.

erm, u can also join them by selecting all files and drag n drop to your editing software? most editing software will drop the files in sequential order anyway. easier to sort your shots without having to cut2 also. rendering one whole big long file is the same as rendering many smaller sequential files, takde beza.



manually change the filename.mod to filename.m2v. or go download any batch rename software on the net to automatically change all.

that's why everybody have to start using a better media software than something like real media or windows media player. something like VLC, zoomplayer, media player classic... get a good codec pack if you must, something like klite codec pack, community codec pack. that way, if the video plays, at least you know that the video works, just that a) the editing system doesnt support it, so must convert to something else, like MPEG or DIVX or AVI or RAW or whatever or b) your pc really hates you

This post has been edited by C-Fu: May 22 2009, 12:24 PM

at this age and time, why would you need video input on a HDD camera? especially since a video in tv card can be less than RM60 (I saw a card that cost RM10 in lowyat during clearance, Win98 n Win2k driver only).

So you prefer something like
VCR/Game -> HDD cam -> PC for editing, storing

instead of

VCR/Game -> PC + card


or are there some special situation that i can't think of??

my experience?
sony mavica (not really a camcorder, but still) - 8, 9 years now?
z1 - 4 years?

not to mention the digibeta ones that people use till now since the beginning of time...


eh seriously, if any of you have the time to ask questions here, then please have the time to read up on earlier pages, like few pages before this, and page 1 2 3.

My earliest posts for instance.
http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...dpost&p=8405683
http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...dpost&p=9039779



a lot of people spent lots of time to write down lots of guides and facts for beginners, so it only takes a few minutes for you to use them instead of asking again and again the same questions.

This post has been edited by C-Fu: Jun 4 2009, 11:12 PM

yeah that one.

at this global age, its not uncommon to hear electronic devices from various brands manufactured from just one factory. heck at one point i even heard certain sony tvs were manufactured by LG.

the only reasons most of my stuff are sonys are because a) easy and fast to find spareparts and b) often times they come up with something groundbreaking, like the T-series camera, vx1000, z1 & fx1, the like.

but often times they make really really dumb decisions as well, like the memory stick/pro/duo/pro duo/m2 debacle, atrac3 (GREAT format, poor execution), DRM, etc. so if you manage to avoid those things, usually u'll end up with a pretty solid product.


however, if olympus were to start making camcorders, i'd jump ship without hesitation

comparing file format is a waste of time. often times, the quality of the image, wether its clean or not, depends on the camera and the lens itself. for example, the Hi8 format was really good, but because of the lack of a good camera and lens, Hi8 never really took off bila DV tape keluar.

I'm a HDV man, so I might be biased. My HDV files often times have a lot richer quality, very good low lighting images compared to those smaller AVCHD cams. 1440x1080 vs 1920x1080? who cares?

But only because my cam is 10x more expensive than the consumer AVCHD cams lah


BUT, and a big, big BUT, if you buy a 10-15k AVCHD cam, I'm sure the quality would be good as well. heck, go and buy a 2k-3k AVCHD cam rigged to use bigger lens, and the image quality would be awesome as well.


do note however, when I say good quality, I'm referring to broadcast quality. even nowadays I see production house tepi-jalan ones are able to lepas diri in their tv production by using crap-grade cameras, poor lighting, etc.

those benchmarks that you see in camcorderinfo and similar sites are purely for benchmark's sake. not for real-world use. when it comes to HD, they are comparing VERY GOOD cams to SUPER GOOD cams. you have to remember, even if AVCHD is lower quality than HDV, or whatever the case may be, it is VERY GOOD already lah. plus it's using HDD, so the convenience factor really, really helps. recently i tested a new panasonic cam that has this autotracking autofocus feature where the focus follows a point/person that you select with your viewfinder. if the subjects goes back, the focus follows. THAT, to me, blows any benchmark spec that anybody will throw at, and gets me excited at the upcoming cameras that will further enhance this feature.

the optical stabiliser is VERY, VERY IMPORTANT when shooting in HD or widescreen. this, to me, should be one of the BIGGEST criteria for choosing a HD camera. a lot of people don't realise that the bigger the picture by going HD, the easier it is to notice the shakiness of your footage, the out-of-focusness of your image, etc. u wanna go HD, go for stabiliser first, then worry about 1080i/p, ccd/cmos, etc. ada one time my cameraman forgot to on the stabiliser, the HD image when viewed on the monitor really can make u muntah

that said, AVCHD do use a lot more processing power than HDV. i find it hard to render AVCHD than HDV because it takes so much time, even more so when you start to do a lot of post-production using After Effects to clean up the image, colouring, etc.


my conclusion? any HD-flavoured cam will do. even non-HD cams will do just fine, especially when HDD-based normal cams often have 70x zooms, which helps a lot. DV tape is mahal! I can afford, because I run a business out of it. most of you are not. I have HDV deck, most of you don't. I edit files of 2 gigabyes per minute videos, most of you don't. I have twin quadcore xeons with 4 x 15k SAS raid hdd and gazillion lcd monitors, most of you don't. so you know, if you want superb quality, then have "superb quality" throughout your whole setup better! good camera, few years warranty, good lighting, GOOD MIC, few batteries, good editing system, you are a much happier vidguy compared to one superb cam with a 2 hour battery sahaja

creativity more important ma there're always ways to upconvert your old SD quality footages to HD. ask yourself, does the time spent on editing, rendering, rerendering, downconverting to dvd, really worth the super duper image quality for you?

This post has been edited by C-Fu: Jun 9 2009, 12:40 AM

good luck trying to zoom and autofocus and film more than 5 minutes! or actually film while moving not to mention how it sucks up the battery like


like i keep saying to you guys, HD or not HD is never important! with new innovation and technology it ALWAYS comes with underperforming, deceiving, and pure marketing bull. think about it, for the canon slr they could as simply have 720p mode, but because marketing says 1080p sells more, so you can't have that. HDV can't have true 1080, but because it's sort of 1080 (1440x1080) sony still calls it HD.

as for me, my need for still photos is rarely more than something around 1080p HD size (around A4 print size). plus the fact that HD camcorders essentially capture 30 images in a sec, so no need for me to say cheese



that said, as soon as E-P1 ade kat sini i'll be the first to get it

This post has been edited by C-Fu: Jun 17 2009, 12:25 PM

go to youtube and search for steadycam guides. a lot of people (including the Steadycam company itself) have posted guides as to how to setup and use the Steadycam, which should apply to you, at least for a fair bit.

remember, setting the steadycam properly is IMPORTANT. it might be difficult at first, but its a very, very useful knowledge to have. a lot of people paid thousands of US dollars to get certified as a steadycam operator, and can charge thousands of ringgit PER DAY of being an operator.



as for the sanyo, i wouldn't touch ANY HD OR WIDESCREEN cam without optical stabiliser. with HD, there's so much more information than SD. And together with widescreen , there's so much more tilting that can and will happen when operating the camera that it's going to be super visible when used by your normal/average guy. one of the reason why i keep on saying that HD isn't really important when you want to compare features.

This post has been edited by C-Fu: Jun 23 2009, 04:20 PM

cheap is always good! my cheapest "steadycam" is 5 ringgit

try adding plasticine for extra weights at the bottom (or middle), that's the easiest i reckon. the one thats always used in sekolah rendah dulu2 la, cut it evenly into several pieces so you can agak2 how much the pieces weight. once you find the optimum weight, leave it in the sun for few hours or a day for it to harden. if you only use your "steadycam" for just one camera then there's no problem lah

might be usefull to if you mold the plasticine (or a general purpose putty) around the weight screws so you can create your own general purpose steadycam weights once it hardens

This post has been edited by C-Fu: Jun 23 2009, 04:46 PM

money first. how much?

tv documentaries? a lot better to just rent better equipments out. nanti colourange, vectorscope semua out padan muka


long term? no. if you mean 5 years, by that time there's probably gonna be 10x better camera than today's. compare the XR520E to HD cams 5 years ago. the cheapest was in the 5 digit range. one thing you need to remember is that HD for small camcorders are NOT EVEN CLOSE to HD of proper big camcorders. just because they slap the HD moniker/logo on the cam doesn't mean that it is HD. remember the times when they try to trick us by having big big 700x ZOOM on the camera? or 40x HYBRID ZOOM on the digicamera? or 6MP digicamera with a smaller text that says "3MP effective"? Same situation here. Buy cameras (or general technology) because of the feature it has NOW. not 5 years from now. Last year we didn't even know cameras such as XR520 or TM300 existed. next year? who knows, but it's going to blow the camcorders today, i can guarantee that.

as always, read back my older messages few pages back. i've said so much already, there's just no point to say it again.

This post has been edited by C-Fu: Jun 24 2009, 12:08 PM

colour not good la. not terang enough. it doesn't pop out lah, and i know the avc format can have really really good colour information.

as for the image quality, i noticed that every 1/2 sec or so the video sort of (artificially) "sharpens" itself for about 0.1-0.2 secs, then jadi tak sharp balik. so when it tries to sharpen itself, you can see a lot of artifacts around the clip. to me, it's actually quite dissapointing, since for the price the video isn't as eye-poppingly good as Olympus E-P1, even if the E-P1 can capture 720p. When I compare side-by-side, the stabiliser, the sharpness, the colour, teruk lah. and both cams are around the same price I think.

for the stabilisation, pening kepala. digital stabiliser isn't stabilisation. better if you use deshaker or any anti-shaking software. i believe you twist your torso and hands as much as you can first, then you turn your legs, then you turn your body again. is that right? i also believe that you're holding it one-handed (another hand might be holding the screen). i can see the screen tilting left and right while turning. i can only imagine how bad can it be when you move with the cam.

BTW, I'm viewing the clips on a big screen, like how HD is supposed to be viewed. so that's why I manage to nampak bits and pieces of the vid.

overall? umm.. the video pretty much strengthens what I said about HD must have stabiliser. HD is pretty much useless without a stabiliser, and a sharp image, as without these two it pretty much defeats the purpose of going HD (AVC). The Olympus E-P1 for instance, not only did it give sharper, richer colour than this camcorder, but its using MJPEG codec for 720p videos which uses less pc power to edit than AVC. Thanks for the video anyway, it made me want the E-P1 more and more


for gun cams like these, i believe it's more stable to hold it like how you would hold a gun (one hand at the side, another below, elbows tuck at the side of your body). I think for a different shaped camera such as these, you might need to experiment on using it differently than how you would use a normal camcorder. if it's too light, add some weight to it so it's harder to shake. might help.


one question, what sd card u using? is it class 6?

This post has been edited by C-Fu: Jun 24 2009, 01:57 PM

hahahha sherlock holmes I said all that just to confirm, and to let people know how the vid is taken so we can judge the shakiness better.

I was actually viewing few videos from E-P1 reviews by various websites while reading your post.
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/EP1/EP1A.HTM
http://www.dpreview.com/previews/olympusep1/page14.asp

and since the price range is more less the same, I figured hey why not do a comparison. and just for the record, i didn't say the camera/video was bad quality. i was saying the (ONLY) image quality was bad compared to the (NEWER, BIGGER LENS) E-P1 CAMERA. i wasn't comparing other stuff, like mic input, audio quality, battery life, handling, etc. if the image is bad, doesn't mean the camera is bad at all.


since the video uses avc video codec, and audio uses aac audio codec, my pc uses CoreAVC for the video and ffmpeg as the audio. I find CoreAVC handles AVC files much much better than any other video codec (even quicktime!). I installed combined community codec pack, then goto the ffdshow video and audio decoder config (in start menu) and then under codecs i right click and set all stable formats to libavcodec. I then install CoreAVC and set it so all AVC files will be handled by CoreAVC, not FFMpeg. But yeah, codecs are a pain to understand and setup if you have no idea of every single function that it does

or, if you want to avoid the hassle of codecs altogether, go and install VLC. when everything else fails, this program never failed on me, not even once. weird video files, weird audio files, partially downloaded videos, heck at one time it even played a hidden (!) video file in an mp3 file which shocked the hell out of me who would've known??? it'll save you lots of frustration when dealing with video files, trust me.

class 4 SDHC cards might not be fast enough for HD footage, but depends on your usage really. Class 6 is faster, and with class 6 there might be less or no downtime at all after you've stopped recording a clip so you can instantly record another one. faster is always better.

since the video is already huge in resolution, and my guess is you would probably transfer it to youtube or dvd, using video stabiliser programs won't affect the end result at all. add some sharpness filter in your editing software, and it will still gonna be really really good quality for dvd or 720p downconversion.

This post has been edited by C-Fu: Jun 25 2009, 01:06 PM

youtube? DIY steadycams, tanglung lightings, diy deadcats, everythings there man.

VLC doesn't use your pc codecs, so i doubt your pc codec is interfering with it. are you using the newest version? i've never tried this, but might be useful for you to use the 1.0 RC4 version instead of the official 0.9.9 one.
http://www.filehippo.com/download_vlc/tech/

the Greek explanation about my pc's codec setup is actually simple (I think ):


1. remove all codecs and codec packs that you have installed. THEN RESTART.
2. install combined community codec pack. use FFDSHOW/ffmpeg for playing all formats masa setup. and better to choose zoom player to play all formats, this is by far the most advanced media player out there, in terms of codec customisation. if you like simple stuff, media player classic also can lah. some formats also no need codec to play, mpc is like vlc lite la.
3. goto start>programs>combined community codec pack>filters>audio decoder config & video decoder config
4. for each window, click on codecs, right click on the right area>set all format to libavcodec
5. install coreavc, set it so it has the highest priority for avc format. done.

Went to lowyat yesterday, and I saw a mini HD player in Sri Computer for SDHC cards! I dunno if it can play your sanyo movies, but maybe worth a look. less than 200 as well.

At any rate, I would compare this age of pc & HD to the age of 486/pentium & vcd. it used to be quite a challenge to play vcds properly at that time, and the fastest way would be to use xing codec & player for vcds. anybody remember that?

check this out! The King of Pop himself checking out sony's Z1. Turns out he's a camera geek himself

http://gizmodo.com/5303026/michael-jackson-gets-his-geek-on

60i has only technical meaning. it is still HD, your picture is still HD, doesn't affect quality of your footage at all.

60i means your video TECHNICALLY is half the resolution (one line ada image, another line just black or digitally sambung-ed image from top to bottom line) at any frame per second. since its 60 frame per second, you don't actually see the lines. doesn't mean anything tangible really, you could combine 60 half images into 30 full images (30p) if you are really anal about it

I've shot with 60i footages for TV, and can still lepas. so if TV movies n dramas can lepas, no reason for you to really care (or know) about it lah.