Recently, all of a sudden my aircond started to be not cold at all (blowing warm air). Change wasn't even
gradual, just suddenly one day not cold at all.

So after a few weeks no aircond I brought to shop (not specialist aircond shop, but the guy does aircond servicing too). He said got no leaks he can find at surface level (without having to remove everything and check), so he refill gas and asked to see how if it leaks again or what.

But by two days later can feel not cold any more. So I went to different shop this time, which is nearer to my house. This new guy said he found the leak, which is apparently in the aircond pressure switch (from here i'm already suspicious because the earlier mechanic already checked this component and didn't find any cause for concern). Anyway I believe him and changed it (and I had to pay charge for changing gas, compressor oil, and servicing too, altogether RM130).

By just THREE DAYS LATER, all the gas gone already, not cold any more. I went back to the same shop and ask wtf, he said that means got ANOTHER leak (wtf two leaks all of a sudden, can meh?). He said must open all the components and it's a whole day job

But just two hours later he called me and said he found the problem (I've heard this before lol). Apparently the cooling coil is leaking, and the expansion valve also needs changing (total damage this time? RM560!!).

I said that day the pressure switch was fine la then?? He said confirm there was a leak at the pressure switch so that needed to be changed anyway.

Now if three days later not cold any more, he will say there's ANOTHER leak somewhere and have to change another component?? This is my first car, never done aircond repair before, how to not get scammed?

UPDATE 31/8/14: Aircond f***ed again all of a sudden. It's been one week. Yesterday still cold, today suddenly not cold at all, blowing hot air. Now what?

UPDATE 7/9/14: Went back to the shop and scolded the manager. After another round of soap bubble leak checking and even checking with nitrogen gas (not sure what that's for), he finally said something similar to what my first mechanic said, i.e. that my pressure valve (was it 'valve' or something else? can't remember) might be relieving the gas due to high pressure that's why it all leaves the system so suddenly. Therefore I'm getting more and more convinced that it's not in fact a 'leak' per se. A leak would mean GRADUAL decline in cooling effect right? In my case it runs very well and very cold for about 3-5 days after refilling gas, then all of a sudden next day I start my car and it's just blowing hot air because the gas is not there any more.
Anyway he refilled the gas for free and asked to drive around for 3 days and get back to him and he'll check if there's any gas leaked out or gone completely so he can do further diagnosis.
Any opinions? Any significance in the fact that the loss of gas is not gradual, instead seeming to be very abrupt?
Drillz of my car:

This post has been edited by marczeman2: Sep 7 2014, 07:43 PM

go to the authorised service center...

it's my first car, but it's 1999 secondhand wira

try go find another mechanic to inspect

This shop seems want to scam you only. Go to other shop,proper car aircond shop. Maybe need request aircon gas pressure leak test (got such thing for aircon?? Need other sifu confirm). And you yourself stay there to verify. This is what i think la.

At least ask them to show you visually, where is it leaking. If the guy says cooling coil is leaking, ask him to SHOW you that the cooling coil is really leaking.

TS sudah kena cut throat.

If leak again I will go there and rage there in front of all the other customers ask him to refund everything (at least labour charge etc)

if the aircond suddenly get warm next time, do rush to the workshop right away.
stop using it and let the engine cool down for 2hrs or more. then start again.

if the aircond is back to normal, then its not leaking. the compressor clutch set is worn, change the whole set magnet+pulley+clutch (compressor clutch not the gearbox clutch ya) only cost rm300, local part not genuine.

This post has been edited by yamato: Aug 23 2014, 09:58 PM

For wira you should just change the compressor + service if can last you for 2-3 years consider bonus already.
Once the compressor kong no need to repair just replace it.
The wira compressor oem brand is Denko not Denso ok

if you are located in seremban i can recommend you a very reliable aircond shop in senawang. did a full aircond service on my 9 years old inokom atos. never service before, only refilled gas twice during that period.

the shop owner spent more than 2 hrs on my atos for the full aircond service on sunday noon. paid rm205 for everything.

Aircon is not an easy thing to repair.

First have you been into frontal collision before (however light it is, it is easy to cause aircon gas leak because certain piping joint has been slightly bend). Usually mechanic will use soap water with bubbles to wipe on those pipe reachable by hand. (Good luck to those unreachable ones).

Second, is your cooling coil. Is it clogged or rusted and leak?

Third is your compressor leaking? or compressor not compressing the gas (eg. the magnet clutch part not functioning)?

Condensor dirty?

...


If you want total fix in one short, the only way to do it is replace every damn thing that is part of the gas travel path.

This post has been edited by dstl1128: Aug 23 2014, 10:28 PM

Confirm your aircon man is lousy. First he has to check for leak everywhere instead of just 1 area. How he check? Did u see? There is leak detector, or old fashion way is using a gas burner connected to a pipe. If u didn't see for yourself, u confirm kena con 99.

Find aircon specialist, not some accessories shop o mechanic that do part time air con that can only recommend change of parts that doesn't solve the problem.

This post has been edited by ahsam1212: Aug 23 2014, 10:46 PM

Thanks guys, I have a lot to learn about car maintenance

service.centre cheaper and got warranty

I LOL'D at those who said service centers are cheaper. Seriously?

And yes, checking aircond is not cheap. If it involves the cooling coil, it involves removing the cooling coil to check if there's a leak(pressurise with nitrogen, dip in water). And usually to gain access and removing the cooling coil involves opening the glovebox(not that hard) and in many other cars, removing the whole dashboard(pain in the ass). You can't exactly check for leaks on the cooling coil without removing it, but usually if there is a leak there, sometimes you can see the signs of oil around the area. Usually if they remove the cooling coil, it is recommended to change the expansion valve AND the receiver dryer as well. Compressor also can leak, at the back of the compressor housing.

So yes, aircond system is not as easy as it seems. I've redid a van's aircond system before, change every pipe, install new condenser, new fan, 2x cooling coil(front and back) which the bill came out to 2-3k

Thanks, that was very informative

hello, people now use air conditioning gas that has uv tracer, they fill the system then come back with uv light to see where gas has been leaking

no need remove cooling coil

The UV is sold seperately in an additive package, it's not pre-mixed in the 'gas' tong, which costs extra. And not many workshops actually have it. Without it, you have to inspect all the piping at the engine bay area, then if no leak, it's pretty much confirmed that it's inside. If inside, it could either be leaking from the pipe to cooling coil joints or the cooling coil itself. So with or without UV light, if it's really the cooling coil, you still have to remove it anyway. But if you have the UV dye, it eases the mechanic's work.

Even if there is no UV dye, traces of oil is pretty easy to spot with a flashlight.

This post has been edited by Nightstalker1993: Aug 24 2014, 05:58 PM

some food for thought:
an entire aircond system with ALL original denso parts for a 1999 iswara cost 2-2.4k ish.
not including labor/aircond gas etc

a Mitsubishi compressor ONLY for a lancer/inspira cost rm4k+ (SC price) part alone

depending on what needs to be replaced, you can get an idea on why air cond are expensive and why they should be serviced appropriately as it can save you hefty repair bills in the long run as opposed to replacing the entire part.

so if you think an aircond workshop is cheating you, think again.
when in doubt, go for second opinions before proceeding and most importantly go to legitimate workshops authorized dealers (eg: denso authorized dealer) or even SC

while you definitely need to pay more especially on the labor side, chance of them cheating you is a lot less and complaints/claims against them should shit happen/they actually cheated you is a lot more effective than against no name workshops (they don't have much to lose)

this.

a cooling coil ori denso is around 400-500+
not including labor to remove your glove box and troubleshoot (as nightstalker1993 mentioned) or use solvents to attempt to clean (if not leaking) etc

older iswara/wira shared almost all the same components in the air cond system

reminded me of my aircond trip last time (lol compressor/magnetic clutch exploded and had melted plastic bits all over my engine bay)

http://twitpic.com/photos/Quazacolt?page=24
the money shots:
http://twitpic.com/bl49d9
http://twitpic.com/bl49ii

If case is not cold(not like yours no gas), it could be condenser or cooling coil or the whole system clogged with gunk from wear and tear. If that's the case, usually cooling coil and condenser will first try to clean with special chemical, if after 2~3 rounds still dirty as hell, change straight away. And if really really teruk, compressor also might need to change. On some recond compressor with warranty, the t&c for warranty is 'warranty void if compressor fluid black'

Going to service centers aren't exactly risk-free though.

yeap agreed.

there are reported incidents/forum threads that mentioned on service centers cheating as well.

thanks guys. maybe i didn't pay that much after all..

btw he didn't fit me with a Denso cooling coil, he installed a Paco one (rm370, and expansion valve rm85). When he showed me my old cooling coil he showed a lot of dirt and some stains which he said was a sure sign of leaking.

anyway it's been a full day, aircond still very cold. hopefully this time it lasts.

Continue update here bro

I think proton still can service that car. If you need to go back to the same shop a few times, please consider changing the shop. No point going to the same shop.

UPDATE: Aircond f***ed again all of a sudden. It's been one week. Yesterday still cold, today suddenly not cold at all, blowing hot air.

Now what?

bro now again my aricond is gone, all of a sudden not cold. gas leak again?

btw the first mechanic i went to was saying something about me driving too fast and pressure building up so the the gas was intentionally leaked by the compressor to relieve the pressure.. (idk if i understood him correctly). he was trying to explain to me why my aircond was not cold all of a sudden instead of gradually. I am already out of money lol now how

And to make matters worse, I lost the receipt (it was in bag which was stolen recently).

check your condenser fan if it running or not. Check your filter drier with looking glass on it if you can see liquid movement. Your aircond cold while your car is moving and hot when you stop at something let say traffic jam?

Lol typical so typical, good luck Liao. Next will be compressor followed by condenser drier valve basically entire system will get changed without knowing exact problem lollololol

Please just go to the Proton service center, if they repair once and it fails they will not charge you double. This already happened 3 times to you and you are just wasting more money than a service center would have charged. These guys are scammers , never trust random service men especially for aircond.

Did the mech say your aircond system had lost pressure?

If yes, looks like you got a leak somewhere else that both of your mechs failed to discover. It could even be the compressor itself. And the compressor relieving the pressure is pure bull.

I've seen a compressor leak at this area before.


By the way, how did the fella check for leaks? Did he use the soap water method? If he used the soap water method and still fail to find the leak, you need to get some UV dye into the system and pressurise it again, then check few days later when the pressure is gone. If the mech doesn't have the UV dye, you can contact thundergod_cid for the aircond treatment+uv dye, but that means you still need to spend money in order to spend more money

they are not scammers, just either inexperienced or new in the biz. And most 'service centers' are in a way just approved workshops, still operated by private owners.

Wahhh..our lala aircond so expensive!! Can get other cheaper brands? How do you naintain aircond anyway, other than refilling gas? You only refill gas ifbit leaks right, otherwise, the aircond will stay cool.

the place i went to isn't cheap, but it sure as hell got ANY air cond job i've sent there done perfectly every time.

and their own "kpi" is that every car leaves there with less than 10 Celsius degrees on the thermostat mounted on the air cond vents.

the kancil gotten like 3 Celsius while the iswara went as low as 0.x c (pretty damn close to subzero lol) and the picture taken was 1.4 Celsius degrees with water condensation forming as additional proof as well lol.

compressor runs on oil as well:

similar to car's engine oil.

overtime you'll need to drain/replace, or even top up if there's reduction/loss in oil (eg: lots of usage especially under hot afternoon sun and you always have the air cond at maximum coldness temperatures to induce more compressor load)

typical compressor checking/refill/replace is 40-80k km or 1-2 years whichever comes first, or depending on budget. people tend to neglect this element, and only make noise when it's not working, and usually a LOT of noise because parts are VERY expensive.

not to mention, if the workshops/aircond shops are inexperience (eg: fail to troubleshoot on the first time properly), don't expect the layman to know any better as evident in this very thread.

Normally the shop will not con anyone because bad name can spread fast. Unfortunately the shop rely on bad air-con man. I don't think the person is really trained. Just basic knowledge with convincing talk .

Fark.....the Proton SC never recommend me to change this....3 yrs+ liao....my mileage just exceed 4xk now.

good ma, that means proton not cheating you ma

must do this? my usual SC said no need, because once you opened an aircon, all cats ran away ..

no need also can.
some compressors are exceptionally resilient and tough, but the pricing of said compressors are exceptionally expensive too. and if you happen to blow a compressor (or it's magnetic clutch, whichever) and have it's debris/parts cycling in your air cond system, good luck

and by cats i assume you meant gas, gas is relatively cheap compared to full air cond service, WAY less hassle too.
notice how most aircond shops only refill gas and call it a day?
proper procedure is to have it vacuum (to remove any air in the air cond system)/cycle/recharging of the gas and that actually takes a bit of time having the machine running.

and to ensure a healthy air cond system, the drier unit is typically replaced as well during this service. think of it sort of an air filter.
not to mention the fan/cooling coil is typically removed and cleaned to ensure proper airflow so the compressor stress is reduced. (and it means fresher air in the cabin too)
then of course for modern cars the cabin filter is also replaced.

typically this servicing can cost between 200-500 or so depending on your car dashboard/aircond designs, and parts (such as drier/cabin filter) pricing.

Lol that one we consider full service liao, which is usually done if the cooling coil/condenser is f***ed. Vacuuming and replacing of the receiver dryer is only done if the system is opened up(removal of piping or something else), else it is usually not needed. If a job involving vacuum and changing of the receiver dryer, it'll gonna cost

for "all cats ran away", I use it as a substitute for "all hell breaks loose"....hahaha

BTW, thanks for sharing the info... ya, my mom old saga, mech just refill the gas...

well if you're taking a step further on preventive maintenance, that's needed since the moment you drain the compressor oil the gas is leaked anyways lol

and with modern car/dashboard designs, the moment you whack the fan blower/cooling coil it's not going to be cheap on labor already, might as well lo.

if budget is tight, consider just dragging the interval especially if the air cond is still fine and you're just doing preventive maintenance.

I've been told afterall even with proper preventive maintenance the compressor is going to eventually die someday anyways, just sooner or later.
maybe you can just f*** all on those maintenance and just gas refill/recharge all the time until the compressor die and just replace it one time deal lol. (iinm, the mitsu compressor from proton sc is exactly "4444.xx" ringgit, awesome number wei lol)

oh not familiar with the term

but yea my iswara had my compressor blown while i was red lining on highway.
not a pleasant experience rofl

and it's since then i started looking into air cond maintenance

Your proton still ok, newer car most of them have to remove dashboard to access the cooling coil

and speaking of compressors, mine is alreadt 13 years old and 12xk km covered.

that's only applicable on older cars, most cars running fuel injection have their compressors controlled by the ECU as well, so as to shut off when TPS or RPM is above a certain threshold to prevent your case from happening

even my Megasquirt have it

TS...i recommend you this shop. I do experience you cases....before.

visit this aircon shop Prestige Cool. Don't judge the shop by the outside look. This shop service car from proton to ferrari to RR and once i spotted a noble sportcar. They only service aircon and If you are lucky, you might bum into one of these car.

the shop have all kind of equipment including the dye. the boss is a chinese tall guy.

their services is the top!!. you have to go early else..there will be lot of car...

Prestige Cool
Address: No.18, Jalan Segambut Utara, Segambut Industrial Estate, 51200, Kuala Lumpur, WP Kuala Lumpur, 51200
Phone:03-6257 7951

iswara easy, inspira cooling coil

and yes they do have way better controls instead of a stupid pulley only/magnetic clutch. (lol the entire magnetic clutch melted for my iswara case and the melted liquid splashed and stuck all over around the engine bay)

not sure if that would increase the cost, because damn rm600-800 ori denso compressor compared to 4k is a huge difference for technically the same thing (well, a compressor lol)

so farking expensive...now feels like selling my lala and buy a GCC instead...

Oh wait...maybe i buy god-car....

It's still the same magnetic clutch system, just that the ECU can decide to turn it off to prevent meltdown lol

con jobs lo, same system, 1 cost 4 times less

come and see me. I am not interested in your money other than potentially selling you a UV Due to be injected into your aircond system to trace if there's any leaks. And yes, I have the UV light for checking

Update: Went back to the shop and scolded the manager. After another round of soap bubble leak checking and even checking with nitrogen gas (not sure what that's for), he finally said something similar to what my first mechanic said, i.e. that my pressure valve (was it 'valve' or something else? can't remember) might be relieving the gas due to high pressure that's why it all leaves the system so suddenly. Therefore I'm getting more and more convinced that it's not in fact a 'leak' per se. A leak would mean GRADUAL decline in cooling effect right? In my case it runs very well and very cold for about 3-5 days after refilling gas, then all of a sudden next day I start my car and it's just blowing hot air because the gas is not there any more.

Anyway he refilled the gas for free and asked to drive around for 3 days and get back to him and he'll check if there's any gas leaked out or gone completely so he can do further diagnosis

Any opinions? Any significance in the fact that the loss of gas is not gradual, instead seeming to be very abrupt?

Drillz of my car (large):

This post has been edited by marczeman2: Sep 7 2014, 07:43 PM

He did say pressure was lost bro...

btw read my update, what do you think

over pressure normally in an air conditioning system means the condesor fan is faulty, the same occurs in house or industrial airconds except there they have safety switch rhat shut off instead of release gas

I used to work onthis units and when they trip on compressor high pressure it's often the condesnsor fan in broken because the compressed gas is hot and expands the condenser should cool it down if not it gets hotter and expands more and eventually over pressures

when you say condensor, do you mean cooling coil (is it the same thing?)? Because i changed the cooling coil on the 2nd visit and the problem persisted

nope condensor is the one in front of the car, sandwhich with radiator,

also they may have over filled the system, supposed to weigh the amount of refrigerant wan not agak agak fill

but this is the beauty of outside mechanics keep trial and error until full system replaced and their pockets fully lined

have you considered taking in second opinions? my aircond shop to go to:
http://www.denso.com.my/content/service-de...st.php?state=14


won't be cheap though especially if part replacement is involved

Highly agree on overfilling.
heck the second hand kancil i gotten it was "upgraded" (by previous owner) to a bigger compressor with bigger pipings/expansion valve, and what that did is that it over pressured the air cond system and sapped way too much power from the small measly 660 cc engine

my air cond shop generally prefers to avoid second visit, so if a part is not performing well already, replacement is advised.

however for the kancil they suggested against replacement (of the compressor) since it's still working and as they are confident that it'll last long, i don't mind trusting them and so far experiences has been very positive for the 2 cars i've sent there
expansion valves were replaced to minimize the pressure, and the drier replaced since we do not know it's previous condition.

I had a problem with "sudden" not cold aircond with my car. It wasnt gradual, it was sudden. The culprit was a malfunction fan motor that costs Rm65.

This post has been edited by bananadriver: Sep 8 2014, 04:08 PM

some time really hard to find honest people.