Will you buy car equip with CVT?

For me BIG NO NO!!

Problematic Gearbox.
Expensive Maintenance

problematic?...high maintenance
u sure?
u sure u didn't did a typo which u should typed DCT?

is CVT.

Oil change cost around RM300
Keep goes into limp mode due to belt slip / hot.

hmmm Honda CVTF oni around rm150... i rmb buying it for rm128 if not mistaken for a 4 litre Honda Original CVTF.. jz chg da CVTF once every 30k km and right now i still have no issue with my CVT GB...

its 2X more expensive
but service interval is also 2X of those auto box
so it all equals to zero

what is your car anyway?
the car i'm using does not have problem
seldom hear CVT have problem
DCT have way more problem

I got a CVT car, the new 1.8 altis. Its abit laggy but ultimately if u dont track ur car, its responsive enough. Maybe its the new gen ones that is good

Old gen cvt unreliable especially on the first Muranos. New ones no prob lar.

I notice on slight hills CVT is better because normal auto will take some time to downshift, before downshift rpm is low so it feels no power...

lol TS's car same as yours

Anyone has any experience on Audi's multitronics CVT as well as Mercedes Autotronic ? Are they durable ?

So far we have (some naming not sure, please correct if deem fit) :

Nissan Xtronics


Honda CVT
Toyota CVT


Audi Multitronics


Mercedes Autotronic


Subaru Lineartronic


Don't know what else, but most of these are to be fitted on lower power output car, meaning it has lower torque tolerance limit. Though there is improvement to it, i.e. landmark case being Audi A4 1.8T being able to withstand a high torque of 300NM ?

This post has been edited by amdxp: Aug 12 2014, 01:46 PM

same as mine?
i've never heard mitsu CVT have problems yet

Honda Multimatic S (Also a CVT)

Subaru CVT on my Forester is good for 350Nm on paper. So far no problem with the gear box. In fact very fun.

cvt is still less problematic than semi-automatic and dual clutch

Bro, your Mirage has lots of problems. ..doesnt mean other CVts also got problem...my Inspira 3 years plus, no problem...new Honda City also Cvt. ..

CVT is a hell lot more reliable compared to dual clutch/DSG etc. Like it or not, CVT is here to stay..Personally, I like CVT...hate the sudden shift shock of old TC box.

melvinho I thought your flywheel problem fixed? Now what GB problem??

This post has been edited by Matrix: Aug 12 2014, 01:47 PM

I guess you are referring to 2nd gen Honda City CVT gearbox.
This problem only happen in Msia although the same gearbox is also used in India, Thailand & Indonesia. Honda found out the driving pattern of Msian is different than others. Some SC oso failed to advice their customer on correct maintenance for CVT.
The new Honda City CVT gearbox with torque converter should be more reliable. Only time will tell

From the few pics I posted above, looks like Subaru and Audi has more robust CVT belt.

Toyota, Nissan and Merc belt looks a bit soft.

And yup, CVT is here to stay. Looks like with 9 spd auto, DCT, CVT etc being introduced, manual is set to be less popular. But all are here to stay

I will not buy CVT cars either. It doesn't sound lively at all. And too much transmission loss.
I do agree CVT oil is more expensive.

City 01 4AT - Transmission oil required 2.5L of Honda ATF-Z1 . RM22 X 3 bottles = RM66 , + labour charge RM 20 = RM86 for 20,000km

City 03 CVT- RM128 for 4 litres Honda CVTF. +labour charge RM20 = RM148 for 30,000km.


And nowadays CVT can repair or not like those normal Torque Converter auto gearbox ??? I can see advertisement everywhere offering repair service for normal auto, but CVT I really never seen before .

CVT transmission loss?

Saga CVT...

Problem:-
1. So called rubber band effect.
2. Cold start & u will get the Jump effect. (sudden acceleration and follow by rubber band effect )
3. overheat when driving aggressively.
4. downhill cvt will maintain constant speed. overtake while downhill = MAX engine REV.
5. Reverse noise very loud... ppl tot my engine rosak or what.
6. CVT oil not cheap
7. not really fuel safe

The gooding:-
1. smooth acceleration.
2. S mode quite nice to play with.
3. cheap car, no complaint .. actually not so cheap only.

It lacks the direct mechanical connection between the crank and the drive shaft. Still an improvised DSG will lessen the power loss.

how to know cvt is overheat?

There will be this CVT LED on the dashboard... for Saga FLX

For inspira is like this :

I dont know if mine is expensive, my exora bold cvt..but so far 45k km driven no problem or warning sign whatsoever appear

cvt fluid change interval every 60,000km is RM160
cvt oil filter interval every 60,000km is RM235

total RM 395 for 60,000km

This post has been edited by arza04: Aug 12 2014, 02:47 PM

People who dislike CVT, please dont buy CVT.
Wonder why people bother to convince strangers on an internet forum otherwise.

Few years ago, I had a hard time trying to convince my photography group to migrate from film to digital.
Now ALL of them prefer digital. This will be the same between CVT vs AT

This post has been edited by bananadriver: Aug 12 2014, 03:09 PM

For Subaru, the CVT are using timing chain type of propulsion. So no rubber band overheating issue.

Gearbox oil change recommended at 40,000km interval which cost RM468 (6 litre of CVT oil). 5 year or 100,000km warranty.

And the most powerful engine to be mated with Subaru CVT is the Subaru WRX. (265hp 350nM 6spd CVT). Only the Subaru WRX STI are too powerful to be mated with the CVT gearbox.

This post has been edited by EyraYus: Aug 12 2014, 03:07 PM

proton suprimas using what cvt?

Punch

This post has been edited by newmaster: Aug 12 2014, 03:34 PM

Currently, i notice only chinese car and proton are using punch cvt.

cheaper maybe

Now is alternator problem.

Part change so far.
1) Rear Spoiler
2) Flywheel
3) Starter Motor
4) ABS Motor
5) Brake Master Pump
6) Alternator


LEMON.. I DRIVE LEMON.

My CVT stuck @ 2.5k RPM. I step the padel until floor also stuck @ 2.5k and burning smell came out.LEL.

your car got no warranty? that sounds really a lemon unit. i love the smoothness of 'gear change' in cvt, hate the rubber band effect... but now I am getting used to it already. sometimes, I just used the paddle shift to 'eliminate' rubber band feel.

It is RM27k to replace the CVT GB for the 2003-2009 City at Honda. Nuff said.

now it is only rm2,500 each halfcut
http://www.mudah.my/Honda+City+CVT+Auto+Ge...7238.htm?last=1

yes...it really looks like u'r driving a lemon
i revved my mirage to 4k RPM already...once until 5k RPM when i'm really angry

I always treat cars for what they are. So anything equipped with CVT I'd take it steadily. However comparing a Persona and Accord with conventional auto, with a Honda City and Saga CVT, for city driving the CVT is unmatched. They're so much more comfortable. The Accord's auto is refined and smooth enough, but still the cars with CVT feels more relaxed.

Plus for economy driving some conventional autos can easily be confused. Both CVTs I use "know" when you are driving economically. They don't have to hunt for gears, they just lock the engine RPM wherever suitable and the seamless ratio change takes over.

But of course for CVTs, I still have worries whenever I need plenty of torque for a long period of time, like climbing uphill when the car is heavy, or when I want to overtake up hill. Also shorts burst of acceleration when overtaking. The quick drop in ratio scare me a little when I imagine how hard the metal belt is being put to work. Perhaps there's no need for worry, but I do anyway.

I'll buy a CVT equipped car, absolutely, but only when I know I don't need the power.

People have to test drive a CVT car before purchasing and see if they prefer it to Auto. The feeling of driving a CVT is different compared to conventional 4-speed or 6-speed auto.

bought the City vtec in May 2005 shy of months the CVT problem had just been remedied, by CVTF oil. Aware of it, still slight concern of the CVT reliability. but then , there wasn't much choice in the market, save for hyundai accent that time. there was no fiesta, pug, etc

thruout the maturity ownership, often high rpm 6k rpm and hit rl 6800rpm for few years...surprisingly, the CVT still ok...I rmb reading one article interview the honda technician that the said unit City CVT is made to actually withstand a 160hp so that whay I dare push the gb abit. I think it about maintenance save for lemon, which u can have in any brand, have my sympathy. Whay u no consider selling it. fiesta cute also...

CVT drive belt slippage.

Buy manual, would never meet with such issue.

Now is getting more vehicles equip with CVT, whether you like it or not, this will be the future trend!

and they will say that cars with cvt lack of power cuz they do not feel the rubber band effect

CVT rubber band effect is more of the TCU issue than the hardware.

which car CVT are u referring to that cost RM300 for an oil change?

correct

case in example is the Mitsu INVECS III CVT and Nissan's X-tronic CVT

both are manufacatured by the same company - JATCO

both both have different "software" - i.e. the TCU (transmission control unit)

the INVECS III have bad rubber band effect on low speed acceleration

the X-Tronic has an improved experience

So heavy footer not recommended using CVT, is it? Correct me if i'm wrong.

I think that the term should be "Anyone looking for high performance not recommended to use CVT. Look for DSG or manual."

first time i see overheated invecs III

i drive maintain at 5 - 6k rpm for very long time in manual mode oso so far no prob *touch wood*

but mine comes with a CVT cooler, which maybe explains some thing

For me, i like to trash my kelisa by heavy footing for fun, not necessarily high performance car.

No. It is fine for CVT - as long as no shocks/impacts.

Mine 3 years +....never see that symbol even when driving long distance.
But I heard the old slyphys have cvt overheat issues.....Inspira has actually improved Cvt cooler comapred to Lancer...

I think yours is more like lemon car issue rather than CVT problem...
MR_alien....your Mirage has so many problems?

This post has been edited by Matrix: Aug 13 2014, 10:47 AM

Even EPS motor can overheat and stated in the manual eg, If xxxx symbol appear, means EPS overheated; will harder to turn the steering, or stop one side and let it cool down; not for racing.

Most pple like drive 'auto' like put D forever even on stationary >30min.

Stationary > 30 min in D? Leg not tired pressing brake pedal? I always switch to N when stationary, etc at traffic lights.

I don't think it is due to CVT cooler. All inspira CVT comes with CVT cooler installed at factory.

Very common. Saw it everytime with the brake light so bright on my face. That's why we have so many gearbox failure eg, DSG, CVT, AT, MT (not gearbox but clutch wear fast), yes even MT some pple just engaged in 1 and on the pressed on the clutch that long.

Maybe its a combination of both...my new City EarthDream CVt is even more responsuve than most AT b segment car like VIOS.

And yeah, can feel rubber band effect at low speed acceleration on my Inspira ,.while the new City, not noticeable at all.

never said i drove inspira oso

I know. U drive an ASX

some benefits of CVT, very smooth driving. You cannot get this with MT or old AT boxes, totally no jerking at all. Very nice to ferry loved ones. Another benefit of CVT is, can easily overtake cars on the highway at highspeeds, really effortless as the torque is accesible so easily.

Actually, i never know what's the correct thing to do....glad my habits is the right one...LOL.

Dug some info with good explanation to share:

http://www.topgear.com.ph/features/columns...tuck-in-traffic

Yep, for passenger comfort and normal driving, CVT is really gooding...no shift-shock nonsense....

This post has been edited by Matrix: Aug 13 2014, 11:46 AM

Here is my review for cvt transmission, i have been using it for 2.5 years. Car model saga flx 1.3.

- smoot ride, reads no 'push back' feeling when accelerate. When trying to overtake, you press down the gas pedal, rpm shoot up, maintain at 4k rpm but car speed climb too slowly. Power delivery was delayed for at least 2-3 seconds. Solution , switch to sat mode when driving in highway. Town drving in d mode.

- good for hill climb. Can maintain speed when climbing up hill but engine sound will be rough and harsh due to high rpm while climbing hill. Solution. Insullate the car with sound deadening material , but it is a saga so meh....

- jerky in the morning, traffic jam. Solution , let go brake, let the gearbox do the work, once u feel the car is rolling only you can start giving some gas. Or else it will jerk. Rubber band effect is strong there.

- fuel saving ? Not really. 11-12l per km for a small car.
You can argue that is driver issue or traffic condition but for me this fuel consumption figure is alright but can be better.

I test drove the old sylphy n inspira. The rubber band effect is there. Maybe cvt is not for me but i just going to make use of what i have for now. I have yet to test drive the new city.

Yes, most younger people do not appreciate this factor. For those who ferry parents, grandparents, or babies, will really love this smoothness. They will praise your driving very good because no jerking. actually just thanks to CVT haha! babies drink milk also wont spill.

THIS. Guys, if want to impress your future mother-in-law with "driving skill", buy a CVT.

I guess family man like us will appreciate CVT a lot more than vroom-vroom kaki.

This post has been edited by Matrix: Aug 13 2014, 12:23 PM

1) I don't think power delivery is that slow...it's just perception, more likely like 0.5 to 1 second. For my Inspira...going from 120km - 160km/h is really fast...My City also accelerate pretty fast. No complains at all...its more engine issue than CVT characteristic.

2) Engine rough sound - Again Engine issue....not CVT.

3) Jerkiness - This might be Punch CVT issue or need tuning....doesn't experience any jerkiness with Inspira or City.

4) FC - The gearbox can only do so much, if stuck in jam, any car also die....but Campro engine is known fuel sucker. However, if you put CVT in the similar cars, you can get better FC...ex: City vs VIOS vs Almera....City winrar in FC, as proven in PaulTan's test. All 1.5L engine, not the latest engines...VIOS especially ancient...LOL.


I think most of the things you highlight is an Engine issue rather than typical CVT characteristic for fair comparison.

This post has been edited by Matrix: Aug 13 2014, 12:38 PM

I think this should mostly attribute to the campro engine rather than cvt?

those who says/complain
CVT lacks torque, cannot climb hill,
jerky, rubber band, overheat etc etc etc
usually drives a proton.

comparing proton CVT to other CVT
sounds not right.

CVT's main advantage is fuel saving
coupling it with a primitive fuel guzzling engine
just doesn't make sense.

modern CVTs comes equipped
with torque converters which minimises
the rubber-band effect.

now,
whose and which CVT are we discussing about here?

Not only that,

for torque converters, which is basically just a fluid coupling. When D selected but on brakes - basically you just tell the TCU to "please decouple so my engine won't stall" - and the one of the thing it can do this is from torque converter (since everything is connected from engine to tires, and D selected), 'decoupling' via the fluid - simply converting them to heat.

for clutch coupling, if you are unlucky with a dumb TCU (most likely will be), will just confused whether you want to move, or creeping, or stop. In the end, the clutch is semi-engaged, or intermittently on/off engaged - just like the dumb ass manual driver that float his car on a slope with clutch play in the entire duration of the red light.

TS started with his saga's cvt

and now it turned into a general CVT discussion

Mirage CVT lah...

Mitsu CVTF- Dia Queen J4. 5l cost around Rm300

why so ekspensip?

i use petronas lubricants or whaterver they pump in that comes free with my car servicing

so cost is zero.

I change the oil in SC.
CVTF price RM232+ labour RM65

it's normal price. nothing to be alarmed

just that labor is expensive. i know it's rm 60/hour. but they need to take 1 hr to do the job?

or the rm65 is inclusive of labor for other oil change also?


if u think ur CVT is jerking, just ask the SC to reset the TCU for you

INVECS III has an adaptive TCU - it adjusts setting according to your driving style - i.e. it "learns" your driving style




http://www.mitsubishi-motors.com/en/corpor.../detail833.html

You got free service, apa lu mau compare wei...wait until free service over lar...then you will kecoh...btw...you sure they pump in correct CVT oil? Mitsu must use DIAQUEEN III, even Inspira also use DIAQUEEN III until they change it to Proton OEM brand, but clearly stated for Mitsubishi...(maybe they get better price, buy in bulk and then repackage). Petronas CVT oil? Dunno wor....pray later your CVT no koyak after warranty over....

Same here for Inspira RM 2xx for CVT oil. Honda City is cheaper though, RM1xx only according to the maintenance schedule.

This post has been edited by Matrix: Aug 13 2014, 02:37 PM

nah. my triton ATF change is more or less the same price. not surprised at all

what i am surprised is the labor charge - it is just a matter of opening the drain plug and filling in the correct amount of oil, and a new washer for the drain plug. they charge by the hour and usually an ATF change is a 30 min job (hence RM30)

maybe they use diaqueen. maybe they don't. never notice also. cvt koyak, then go buy new car. no car is meant to last forever.

Maybe his RM65 labor include changing engine oil and other stuff?? Proton charge me RM90 labor minimum everytime...change oil and CVT oil also included i think. But if no change CVT oil also RM90....you do at Mitsu or outside Workshop?

And yeah, not last forever, but i prefer my car not to die a premature death yah....

mitsu sc.

*touch wood*


even honda SC cocked up with their city's cvt last time.

Mitsubishi sc recommended to flushing your cvt everytime it replace cvt oil
Mit ASX CVT oil 6 lit and another 6 lit for flushing the cost almost rm 600
How about proton inspira .. Proton sc recommended to do flushing or replace oil only

Yep...that is why everyone keeping high alert when it comes to CVT fluid replacement!!!!

I check the bottles at my Proton SC when they change my CVT oil...just to make sure no screw up. Later they put Saga CVT oil...Kanasai....you know lar...in bolehland SC, apa pun boleh.

i did my CVTF change earlier 12k KM due to the sc change my flywheels and starter motor. They drain off my existing CVTF and reuse back.
After that only i feel the car jerk and RPM stuck @ 2.5k

A reuse?! That is not CVTF change at all.

if you change the CVTF frequently need no flush la waste of money only

I didnt flush wor...I change at 40k km...but 3rd year......
SC didnt mentioned any flushing...

This post has been edited by Matrix: Aug 13 2014, 03:20 PM

i also changed mine at 40k but roughly 1 and half year of ownership

My mileage very low...supposely want to change at year 2...somehow forgot...

mitsubishi recommended every 40K (2years) to replace cvtf and flushing

i change earlier coz they reuse the cvtf while replacement of flywheels and starter motor

Change flywheel and starter motor affects gearbox??? ...

If not, how to take out the flywheel if you don't take out the gearbox ?

Ooh...i see, not really sure how the flywheel links to the GB!

I tend to have a different approach to this. I leave it at D. CO in my mind, if you shift it from D to N to D so often (esp when u in a slow moving jam) you tend to put more stress on the auto gearbox. owever if it is a major NON-MOVING-FOR-LONG-TIME jam or a traffic light that takes ages to turn green, I would shift to N and wait. So for me, it really depends how long my car stops, and not on a crawling stop-and-go traffic. In fact, to do that there may be more dangerous.

Just sharing. Of course I could be wrong
Myth No. 5: It's best to shift an automatic transmission into Neutral at red lights. This myth stems from the idea that keeping the transmission in Drive while stepping on the brake wastes fuel and causes unnecessary wear on the driveline. In fact, actual engine wear and fuel loss are minimal.

Regularly shifting from Neutral and back into Drive when the light turns green, then immediately stepping on the gas, can wear — albeit slightly — on the transmission, driveline and engine mounts. Ultimately, these stoplight antics probably won't amount to any measurable harm or good; they're likely just a habit by folks who need to keep their hand busy with the gear selector. Our advice? Get a stick shift.

source: http://www.cars.com/go/advice/Story.jsp?se...h&story=ydMyths

>> In fact, actual engine wear and fuel loss are minimal.
Who cares about engine wear and fuel loss. Those are very insignificant. Concerned is on transmission wear.

>>Regularly shifting from Neutral and back into Drive when the light turns green, then immediately stepping on the gas, can wear
This will wear. There's some slack time for those hydraulic ancillary to complete their job (i.e. to engage a gear) before an auto engages. If one shift to D and immediate step on the gas, the engine will just free rev (like in N) for short time, and then suddenly engage ('duk' sound from the gear) and the car sudden surge forward.

Just shift to D (while on a brake), wait for some split second, or 1 sec, then pedal your way out.