but both Torco and LM BOTH are STILL actively API certified, as opposed to this "J" brand assuming what i am referring to is the same as what you're referring to

=edit=
you know what, i am screenshotting api page for torco/lm since certain people practices such perverse in their shitty business.

J brand using someone elses API certification or just referring to the email replies?

Hey Quazacolt - have you ever tried J brand and thrown in a oil test? It would be the ultimate in-your-face response to those MLM junkies.

abang adik specs, have to look at other specs (if available), or just go with certifications (such as API) or just go with brand/reputation etc.

Good luck to your club members then! But to be fair, some people are just not as sensitive or have a placebo in place. The thing for me is I've been through a lot of different oils and have direct experience with certain manufacturers. Personally it's all crap until I try it and it exceeds my expectations. That way I don't get dissapointed. Hahahaha!

Anyway, for me the only 'cheap and cheerful' for normal everyday use oil is Kendall FS 5W30. Cheapest cuz I know someone working there and I can get staff price.