QUOTE(edpaul @ Aug 18 2014, 01:01 PM)
before that, mind i ask your purpose? sound very fishy and un-practical your method of photography/videography.
also, the information you gotten/read from online is imcomplete and a little misleaded.
from your information, not sure if u are trying to do IR videography or something weird.
lens filter (the circular filter directly on the lens)
square filter (those Cokin, tianya, Lee, Singh-ray, rosco)
filter holder (use to hold the square filter)
filter(holder) adapter, used to screw on the lens, then used to hold the square holder.
i. before going deeper into ND stuff. lets talk bout the CPL, since ray cant give a proper english explanation that everyone can understand.
the variable ND, is by stacking two cpl, facing each other (meaning the other piece is Flipped) to work, by canceling each other other. by stacking the 3rd piece (flipped opposite of the 2nd flipped piece, noone tested it or no report of this test yet) i assume it will completely block up everything up to crazy amount of stop like 20-30 due to the multiplying effect. or it may has no special effect because the 3rd pieve and 1st piece will work the same as following;
as for putting 3 cpl facing the same side, nothing special will happen, the CPL will work at the highest polarizing effect, meaning it will polarize as much as any One of the highest polarizing angle CPL piece. say the 2nd piece is set at 90degree highest polarization, while the other 2piece is at 20degree and 45 degree, the image will polarized at highest of that 90degree. (i tested it)
but, you still can get stop reduction (light cut off) but its kinda pointless as it cause heavy color lost and u get weird color all over the places.
ii. like william said, stacking too much lens filter, will prologue out the front causing vignetting. even by using step up filter, the stepup filter itself already prologue 2mm outwards from the lens, wide angle lens definitely will catch that filter and cause vignetting. but base on your case, wide open aperture will be even worst vignetting.
iii. lets say you are using some magically technique and solved the vignetting issue. stacking many ND filter will work only if you do more research on the ND filter brand itself. u said ND are expensive, for a reason, they have minor color cast for the branded and expensive... B+W 77mm 10 stops ND costs US$149 in bhphoto, thats still under 500myr!, Lee big stopper rm7xx. if u get those cheapo china tianya, or the cheaper alternative cokins or 3rd party lens filter(circular) you going to have bad time trying to fix the color cast on post processing!
i used to have the b+w 10 stop before(sold it and upgrade to Lee). the biggest issue with the filter is, your camera cant even FOCUS (meaning losing ability to focus), nor your (assuming A7s?) will show bright image over the LCD, it will struggle to light gain it of 10 whopping stop! our sensor feed only manage best at 7-8 stops of light lose... but you can try~ because i myself had not testing it with A7s, but general experience lead me to the idea it will struggle to work...
then u have to unscrew to focus, then screw back to shoot, a very tedious and troublesome method, that why a lot ppl end up buying square filters system as it can take out and put back with ease.
my answer is base on experience where spec sheet will never able to show what outcome you will get. experience will let u know before buying the wrong shit and realized it dont work practically.v. might i ask why 10/13/16 stops of ND? thats a lotttttt! from what i know, a) i used 50F1.4 with only 3 stop and i dont get any issue shooting under daylight assuming you not getting a 30sec exposure, and im not even sure b) i would avoid directly sunlight as the harsh shadow is ugly, i will have some assistance holding a 120x80mm white/translucent reflector to cover the sun, giving a diffused light over subject.
vi. this bugged me a while. IR is a deep subject. you can skip the explanation. the short answer, UV and IR has no effect on digital camera. another long explanation how those 720nm IR filter works.
hence the filter you buy, when it doesnt mention IR filter or UV filter, it doesnt matter, its a old marketing way. that why branded filter company like b+W brand their coating as MRC (multi-resistant coating), not MC-UV like -other china company does.
so, IR is not relevant to filters.
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «
IR ranged from 650nm to several thousand of nm wavelength. while UV is under 400nm wavelength. light wave is from 0.00001nm all the way to 1m and more beyond science application. and our eye sees from around 360nm to 750nm... this is what generally called, visible light.
today digital camera, there is a extra set of filter sitting infront of the sensor... this is the thing that shake to drop off dust everytime u one your camera. this is the lowpass filter, which consist of a filter that cut off light under 360nm, and cut off light after 900nm. it is also know as UV filter and IR filter. (thats what we take out and replace with special IR filter for those IR mod camera, i actually help ppl mod in the past, due to lost my IR filter supplier i lazy to find new supplier) unless got good ppl willing to help me buy from SG... and i find it disturbing where many modder tries to cheat ppl for 1-2k for the mod where it only cost around 200 to do it. some modder even lied saying they need to send to special programmer to reprogram the system to create the result! haih... world full of lair
But, indirectly, it is relevant for filter trying to cut off more then 4 stops. because color cast is caused by the IR light. cheap filter doesnt filter out IR properly hence it got the red/magenta color cast(IR spectrum)... and sadly, no filter company in the world reveal their chemical for the ND effect that tells you the amount of IR cutoff.
so by getting cheap or wrong ND filter, u end up cutting out normal visible light and becomes more and more like IR image due to the escaped IR light through the filter.
i only could say, only Lee Big Stopper has near complete neutral cutoff.
answer more later, back to work first.
Thank you so much for your reply, really appreciate that.
I am looking to shoot video on the A7S with sLog2 profile, which has a limitation of using minimum ISO 3200. Since shooting video with good motion blur, we utilize some sort of "double" rule; that is, when shooting 25fps video, we must shoot with shutter speed of 1/50. And this 25fps is the best quality on video for the camera. Now I imagine I may need to get shallow DOF under bright sunlight some day. That case, on ISO 3200 and shutter speed 1/50 (these two no choice, minimum i could use), how many stops of ND I need? I tested on shooting at ISO 200, shutter 1/50, the aperture goes as small as F22 in order to get a correct exposure. Now imagine I need to get a DOF that required to shoot on F1.4. In order to shoot sLog2, ISO must be minimum at 3200, which is 4 stops. Then, I need to enlarge aperture from F22 to F1.4, which is 8 stops. So you see, I need 8+4 = 12 stops ND in order to get that video shot. It's a headache, yes! And I have little to no experience on using ND filters since before this, I only shot videos with video camcorders with built in ND filters and there is no crazy min ISO 3200 requirement.
So you see, my main intention is to shoot video, so I'll be seeing bright image on LCD (and the camera sensor), not needed to shoot "in the darkness of LCD screen" as I'm not use it for silky water still photo shoot.
btw, I'm not so much into wide angle. I guess getting to 24mm should be the max need for me, not any wider.
I asked the BHPhoto, they recommend me to get one 10 stop ND, follow by maybe a 0.9ND(3 stops) or a 1.8ND (6 stops) B+W MRC ND filters, they said they had experience stacking them before.
From the below link, it showed that B+W and Heliopan have similar quality, Tiffen is lack of contrast and very heavy color cast, while Singh-Ray is the best performer but it's very expensive.
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews...ity-Filter.aspxMy questions are:
1. Regarding vignetting. If I stack just two filters, will it be ok? I am thinking, if I buy a bigger size filter, say my lens is 67mm but I bought a 77mm filter instead (by using step down ring), will that solve the vignetting issue?
2. When stacking NDs, is there a difference between square and circular filters? Is this the very same issue of vignetting, therefore using square filters can get better results simply because they are usually much larger than lens filter thread and also the distance between filters are closer?
3. I think it's best to get variable ND filter, it's cheap and flexible. However, from many reviews, the very end of the filter are totally unusable as heavy X factor and vignetting will come in. I guess those popular 2-8 stops can only give me less than 7 stops. However, I really wish to have the flexibility of having different level of ND. So I really wish to achieve it by stacking filters, say to get a 0.9ND (3 stops), a 1.8ND (6 stops) and a 3.0ND (10 stops), then I have the flexibility of 3, 6, 9, 10, 13, 16 stops ND by just stacking two filters. Do you think this is a good idea? As if the above theory (by using a larger size filter to overcome vignetting issue of stacking filters).
4. Regarding color cast issue. Since I'm not using it to shoot long exposure still image that LCD can't see a thing and sensor can't detect much, but shooting video that actually LCD and sensor can see a normal image, the camera's auto WB should work just fine right? Or worst case I just custom WB it after putting on the filter. So if this is correct, then I don't have to worry about color cast issue on filter selection right? I just need to look for filter that is sharp and high contrast. If this is the case, I think B+W and Heliopan (according to the review I posted above) should be best mid price range choice. And among these two, B+W is cheaper, so that become the best choice.
Please advice. Thank you very much!
This post has been edited by yok70: Aug 19 2014, 01:07 AM