Anyone there from SPL switch to SQ?

How's the changing stage?

I feel weird weird on RnB, Hip-Hop songs..which the base we like reduce alot.

Trying to get into the SQ world. Any advise?

My current ICE can see on signature, thinking to take off 2 amp n crossover, replace with Audison 6ch amp. Is that a wise choice?

Does my woofer good for SQ setting? Currently using vented, told the installer build me seal box d...still make vented..what la...

That is my comment ...correct me if i wrong

1st change your 4ch amp,
take out the rear speaker (may interupt front driver sound),
change woofer & the amp which push woofer (ur woofer SPL woofer may very hard)

1 question:
ur front comp is 3 ways ?

if budget permits
change ur 4ch prokick amp
ditch ur rear comps (or change it to power up by HU)
get an active crossover with bandpass (run actively)
change to sealed ( budget style: cover up ur vent)

ditch the rear component... they kill the front staging... and your woofer box make it sealed... if it is built according to the sealed enclosure size... then get a towel rolled them and stuff it on the hole to seal them... then you save your money on the box...

just tune your front comp to be more forward.as for the back comp, tune it down. the back comp is to help the front end. as for the sub. tune it down. say around 100hz. if u got multiple subs. just try use 1

Yes my Front comp is 3 ways.


Reason on changing amp?
I have a sealed box ready, it was using for SPL setting previously. It occupy my whole boot, can't even reach spare tire. The box won't fix now. By just cover up the vent will the measurement correct? As I know seal box n vent box meassurement are different.


The current tuning is major on front, rear comp tune very low. I just using single sub, would try the 100hz setting.

reason to change the 4ch prokick - simple.
prokick doesn't give good SQ
high distortion, signal ratio is low, "dirty" sounded

as for sealed box..normally sealed box is smaller...
vented one are normally 1.5cu^ft above

as i said...ditch the rear comp
or make it power up by HU...in SQ setup...
rear comps are just for the ambience
not the sound

and normally the sub are tune low
lower than 100hz depends on the sub's capability

Agree with driftmeister, SPL amp no matter how you tune it... The sound hard to be clean & clear...
SQ sound is clean & clear, you can hear the vocal & musical clearly.
If not why prokick amp so cheap le...?!

If the rear speaker still same loud as or more loud front speaker, it maybe become noise at front. So disable it or direct connect to HU or use lower the rear spekear volume.

Prokick amp famous of delivering big amount of power ( tarak clean ).. good for SPL.. strictly not for Sq.. changing amp might get u closer to SQ world..

Seem like whole ICE is changing...
No pain no gain, SQ world here I coming in~
This weekend gonna ditch the rear comp, re-tune everything.
Still can't get my cash note dry, when can I get new amp.

Do let me know if u wanna sell off ur amp or woofer..

mind to elaborate more about the 'tarak clean' thingy? even the SQ series Prokick with burr Brown chip also tarak clean?

Gee, I live in Penang island leh. Sure I gonna sell them, 1 of my fren is booking on it, until his new car arrive like 2 more month. Well if he change his mind later sure I'll open in forum.

Ya, please elaborate more so me this noob can learn.

dun fool by the BB chip in prokick
BB also comes with entry level and high levels
the component they uses is the lowest quality ones

Ya... When you open up the amp...U will know what kind of component use inside Prokick...
If you know electronic, u will know what is the difference between prokick amp with Helix, TRU.... lo..also why the price prokick so cheap..

*sob* Got fool at the first place.

So izzit a wise choice to invest Audison amp for SQ? Since I have Hertz comp set.

depends on ur budget

This post has been edited by driftmeister: Aug 22 2006, 07:21 PM

lets put budget to below RM 4k.

YEs.. Tarak clean..

hehe, got a ques here, how to define a clean amp or dirty amp? wonder any1 who really tested it with machine to see the freq produced between 2 diff category amp......

Other than using a device to test out the graphical chart. I find is a debatable topic for clean and dirty. Well, everyone have own defination of clean and dirty. Is a individual hearing isn't it?

So maybe can more explain on it, or compare them?

clean or dirty? i think it is more to can you audit the difference or not... i can't... so to me every amp with-in the same price range and power sounds more or less the same...

and i thought someone ever correct me tht the difference between SQ and SPL only involves how loud is the low sub-bass...

cheers...

Hrmm...with the same range of amp, is about the same, but if the combine with diff component set, I can tell the different.

Different betweer SQ and SPL are not just on the sub-bass pressure level.

I still tent to combine those 2 but it won't work.

Haiya.. Clean or dirty.. I also using cheapo audio system... Can listen can edi.. You think i really go hardcore testing meh?
this fella said wan swap from SPL to SQ.. i just saying the Prokick not suitable for SQ.. Cheerz

For me, clean mean I can listen the music & vocal separatly & clearly without interuption...
Dirty mean sound noisy... Moslty SPL, I can't hear vocal clearly

Corect me if I am wrong.

This is what I do. Fine tune the sound of front comp set to more SQ clearity. Well, to me still ok, can diff vocal and back ground music. And myself don't like high trible sound. Sub-Woofer, tune up to 55dB with seal box. Can imagine how's the output?

your front component is runing active or passive? as far as i know prokick active crossover only can go 2/3 way... if you are running passive then you can't tune much on your front component except for the EQ... those frequency point cannot do much to it...

why not like this... try to run 2 way active... like this better and easier to tune... well if you are not really tht hardcore... then dun change anything on your setup...

cheers...

Yeah lor.. Same lar.. Woofer dun so loud.. if all bass only .. better get vibrator ..

Woofer need to be solid and can come to front seat..hehe
Maybe boardtune can help...

The only problem i having now is rear seats over bass liao coz i turn louder as front seats not enuff power.. no balance..

i think the problem is just tuning, with the helps from experienced installers im confident the current system can sounds great if tuned towards SQ
why change things when a little finetuning can solve the problem?
just visit any SQ-knowledgeable shops in your area & ask them to tune the system

--------------------------

any amps can sound clean if set below audible distortion level
human cannot hear distortion anything below 1% for sinewaves & even 3% for musics
cheap amps, expensive amps all be be SQ amps as long as it play below 1% THD
only thing is cheap amps usually overrated in terms of power ratings

------------------------

sub SQ is usually related to box design
a chapalang sub can sounds great if mated with a properly designed box based on the sub TS parameters
is your box custom-made for your sub? or a universal box?

whats your crossover settings? your highpass? lowpass?

Even how you final tune the existing amp, it only help a bit only.
If you need tune as SQ amp... I can say it really hard..!

i think u made a big mistake by going for a 3way system with your current setup .....u should have gone for 2 way .....
in a car environment in order to get a good 3 way u need a lot of EQ adjustment for your mid as a mid require an enclosure and most of the time d installation of mid in car couldnt give u d enclosure u need .....most of the time, its highly recommended that to play 3way in full active system ....

i think the easier way is to ditch your back speaker ....then change to a good HU ....if u wan to go for SQ the u should go for a pioneer 8650,9650 or p80r (if u still wanan stick to pioneer lar).....use the active crossover in these players n play semi active with your passive crossover.....the EQ in these players should be enough to control your system ....try these first before u change your amp .....your system sound very bad now is cos of a wrong setup for SQ .....i have heard of a Prokick setup that sound quite good.....a good HU with a very well balance setup could make an amp shine even if the amp is lousy .....

This post has been edited by Fusion: Aug 29 2006, 11:09 PM

Somehow, to use the 3 Pioneers you mentioned to run bi-amp is not really a good idea after i'm played with one of my cars as i was initially planning on going bi-amp via the 8650 as well, BUT, the lowest choice for highpass for the front/tweeter RCAs is at a very high 1.6kHz(if not mistaken, can't remember now) as the lowest setting, the P80 only got slightly better but still above 1kHz, so far i only find that Alpine has the capability to go below 1kHz for the front/tweeter highpass

yupe.....d 8650 n 9650 can only go down to 1.6k but u could try using d the mid and midbass together .....u can use the passive internal crosspoint for the mid and midbass and use the tweeter as the active......but this way your mid and midbass have to quite close together ....it good for mid which is at kick panel ........the lowpass filter for the mid bass range from 1.6k to 16k....

Hmm..I duwan 3 way system but my installer recommend me inorder for the staging to come up. (I guess that guys wanna save job) Now, mid at door, vocal n tweeter on top of dashboard. When I look at it, is like I also can be installer liao..whole vocal speaker put on dashboard, no need tune also get staging d, am I rite?

I really noob in technical, how I determine active crossover and semi active? Or any website reference I can go read.

Ok decided change HU before amp.

Edit: So the 3 way position ok?

This post has been edited by DeReturner: Aug 30 2006, 12:54 PM

3 way is even more complicated in terms of angling, tuning

Gee, abit too technical for me to understand.

I know HU pre-out is important. Need 3 RCA output to get better tuning, am I right?
Does output Voltage on HU important too? My installer told me my HU Voltage insufficient (currently 2V). I found that pioneer 9650 n 8650 both out 6.5V and Alpine mostly all 4V. I personaly like pioneer, as it not so choosy on CD.


Been having problem on positioning my speaker. Even till now I can't get my bass to front.

bass to front is done through the tunings mostly... easier way would be overlapping the sub frequency with the front mid frequency... and also the phase control...

3 way is a harder setup than 2way anyday... thts why i recommend you to use only 2way full active setup for a start earlier... then as you learn switch to 3way setup later...

the pre-out voltage for me i think 4v is enough... as when we are listening to music we dun use up to 4v... will jus use slightly around 2v... unless when the bass comes in hard and loud then it will use till 4v or more...but believe me this is very rare case... you can check with a multimeter to confirm this(i hav check one numerous HU thts why i am sure about it...) but contrary believe is tht bigger voltage rating is better...

as for the HU... 3 pair of RCA out doesn't mean tht it is easier to do the tuning... i have a pioneer 5750 with 3 pairs but i only use one pairs as i use the alpine 701 only allows me to use one pair of them... and i tune everything from the 701... but of cuz the 701 has 4 pairs of RCA...

so my advise is plan ahead... if you really think you really wan to run 3 way active later... then dun get HU with built in 2/3 way active crossover... get a 3/4way ones... or optionally get one HU without any crossover and and get an external crossover with 2 channel bandpass...

and as for the tweets crossover point till 1.6khz and 1khz... tht is because the HU only can go for 2/3way active... so no point for it to put the tweeter Hz till as low as 500hz... as i never encountered a twweter tht can go tht low... even 1khz i never come across... so basically its pretty useless for them to put it till so low...

and one more thing to add... it will never be perfect in ICE... but its using the most optimum point... ie. your sub... sometimes you will jus need to feed them with 100Hz in order to get an upfront bass... but 100 Hz is not low sub frequency... but who cares when they sound good...

but then i am not pro like some... correct me if i am wrong...

cheers...

This post has been edited by craziechild: Aug 30 2006, 06:41 PM

3 way need to align the tweeter & mid positioning & also tuning...!
This is the most hard way to do it..maybe need cut the dashboard or door or kickboard...

yupe ....like they say ...3 way is d hardest to setup ....semi active is when d player can support only 2 way system ....

in a 3 way speaker ....it consist of
2 tweeter
2 mid (the smaller speaker)
2 midbass

example .....for a HU that support 2 way active system ...there will be 3 pair of output from the HU .....1 pair is for d tweeter , 1 pair is for the midbass and 1 pair is for d subwoofer.....there is 2 different ways of playing semi active ......

first one is to use the tweeter output to drive the tweeter and the mid in this way u can control the high pass of the mid .....the crossover point of the mid and the tweeter will be determine by the original crossover......then the midbass will be controled from the midbass out from your HU

the second way is to use the midbass output to drive the mid and the midbass together ....this way the tweeter will be fully active.......

if u wanan run 3way full active then u have to either change your HU to a better HU or get a processor such as d Alpine 700,701 or the 900.....

This post has been edited by Fusion: Aug 30 2006, 08:40 PM

there is e xover like Trutech F2 tht has 2 channle of bandpass which you can use for 3way setup...

as for processor... the 900 is not really a choice as it only can be used with the DVI-9990... other than tht its pretty much a useless thing...

cheers...

H900 can be use as standalone proc

the one which need to pair with 9990 is H990

thanks for correcting me...

cheers...

Gee.. I can't get it right.

For my ICE, my HU only have 1 RCA pre-out. Which goes in Active crossover, then to amps. Should be this way right?

In order to full active, what should I do or device to get? What option I have?

Getting a processor can it split out more RCA output? HU -> processor -> Active crossover, this way?

Really burning up my time on recall the knowledge.

to get active for 2 ways

HU-> active crossover-> amps 5/6 channel -> speakers/subs

Currently I have 2 amps, 2ch n 4ch. 2 ch use for Sub. 4ch using for front n rear. Anytime I can ditch rear speaker, doesn't matter to me.

So to get Full active 3 way I lack of RCA preout right?

3 way external crossover ?

the only crossover that can go 3 way that i can recall is TRU F2
but this is real rare species

but u can forget bout preout cos u HU->Crossover only need 1 pair of RCA

but u're using 1 x 2ch and 1 x4ch
u can only go front 2 way

eh? he can go 3 way le...he said he can ditch out the rear spk...then he can go active for the 4ch and sub remain 2ch


This post has been edited by howiechoo: Sep 7 2006, 08:01 PM

or u mean 3 way comp set?

So conclude that is Active crossover unable to support. 2way to front, then would it be a waste to have a 3 way comp set?

Yes howiechoo.

Hm... actually there's another crossover that can go 3-way, just that it's lack of exposure, the AudioControl 4XS can actually do 4-way front stage + subwoofer, total 5-pairs of output

GRexer,
4-way front stage? I don't get it. Eventualy I feel is getting more complicated. The crossover support 5-way out mean can go to more channel rite?

4XS isn't normal analog crossover i reckon?
using chip?
play wit it once and screw up the whole setting

This post has been edited by driftmeister: Sep 9 2006, 10:39 AM

Yeah... it's analog and chip based, a bit of a troublesome when doing the tuning, but at least, i'll know the accurate point of crossover Maybe i'm juz always trying to be perfect, which i'm not

I now have 2 setups in 2 different cars, one fully digital so to speak, and the other is fully analog

Gee, I'll prefer simple method. As for myself not good in tuning, can say I don't even know about tuning. I just duwan to waste the 3way comp set, as newly installed.