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 Fundsupermart.com v6, Manage your own unit trust portfolio

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wongmunkeong
post Jun 14 2014, 11:57 AM

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QUOTE(RO Player @ Jun 14 2014, 10:24 AM)
Another sarcasm, thinking he is the predator & uncle/aunties is the prey. Comparing UT equivalent of GoldQuest, Geneva Gold, Scratch & Win. Yes, some ppl are gullible but ask yourself, have you been in that position b4?

No? Many times, but your inner conscience say, "i am smarter than before and before that". "I am not that stupid, to buy that"

blah blah blah snipped
*
Learn to understand that U are not the recipient of the intended sarcasm.
Y U so butthurt when Xuzen no butthurt?
sigh..

And if you're so intelligent, U would have understood that i was talking about the BS by agents & marketing on distribution being lies, like the lies about "returns" from GoldQuest, Geneva, etc.

Damn.. some inferiority complex ARE justified..

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Jun 14 2014, 11:59 AM
wongmunkeong
post Jun 14 2014, 12:03 PM

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QUOTE(RO Player @ Jun 14 2014, 11:59 AM)
i didnt butthurt at all, just to educate yourself and others...the reality of life.  icon_rolleyes.gif
*
Ah.. so now U are my self proclaimed educator?
laugh.gif rich..
thank U ar.. but i dont take BS well
come with facts and figures - not benda halus & invisible stuff versions of reality pls

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Jun 14 2014, 12:04 PM
wongmunkeong
post Jun 16 2014, 07:06 PM

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QUOTE(nothingz @ Jun 16 2014, 05:30 PM)
You bolded the word 'more often' means you can't be 100% sure that you can earn more by using a lump sum approach. Some more the word long term is too vague, at accounting POV, it is 5 years and above, it can be 50 years either.

I do agree that DCA is a conservative approach. To a certain extend, the above article is correct but not 100% true since you may invest at peak price today, the next day stock market crashed and cannot come back to the same level even after 5 years.  The lump sum approach may have got you in deep trouble
*
i think most of the research stats are based on longer term than 5 years - 10s of years or rolling 20 to 30 years.
"Knowing" that equities goes up in time, IF one has say $100K, the stats are for the lump sum investment instead of breaking it up to do DCA for RETURNS purposes.

DCA in above situation is more for psychological acceptance / "staying power" (ie. not run helter skelter).

However, in normal terms where we dont have $100K lump sum every year or three, then DCA, VCA or value hunting makes more sense coz if we just hold and time, bila nak masuk?

http://www.investopedia.com/articles/stocks/07/dca-fight.asp
...
DCA Vs. Lump-Sum Investing
Both lump-sum investing and DCA have their appropriate time and place. The research shows that lump-sum investing pays off about 66% of the time, which is a long way from all the time. It certainly makes sense to look carefully at the current market conditions. If you hit that bad 33% in lumpy style, you can lose a lot of money.

On the other hand, many DCA users fail to monitor their investments after they start. The mere fact that you are investing in small pieces does not mean that you don't need to rebalance your portfolio, watch for changes in fund managers or in the economic environment, etc. So part of the problem is not DCA itself, but the fact that other investment issues still have to be taken care of. Indeed, one broker refers to the "no-brainer DCA", the equivalent of Smyth's "blind DCA".

Conclusions
DCA does not provide any real kind of guaranteed return and/or risk reduction. And it certainly does not work well in all market situations. Furthermore, research in the area indicates that lump-sum investing tends to perform better over the longer term.

Nonetheless, DCA is far less nerve-wracking than a lump-sum investment, and if there is a major bear market around the corner, it can really pay off. In some situations, it is an ideal way of controlling both risk and stress.

You can also treat DCA as just one of the strategies that you use in your overall portfolio (in other words, it makes sense to use it as a form of diversification), but as with those other strategies, you still need to monitor, manage and rebalance your DCA investments. (Read more about diversification and balance in Risk And Diversification and Rebalance Your Portfolio To Stay On Track.)

Finally, regular investing is a lot better than no investing at all. If the choice is between putting away $50 a month or treating yourself to an extra night on the town, it is clear which option will see you through your old age.
...

http://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Dollar_cost_averaging
...
When you are ready to invest money, a common question is whether you should invest it as a lump sum or Dollar Cost Average (DCA) by splitting your investment across several payments. The answer depends on your psychology.

In most cases, you are moving your money from cash (or the equivalent, a low-yielding money market) to some mix of stocks and bonds. The expected value of both stocks and bonds are higher than cash. However, their volatility is higher as well. The risk is that just after making your investment, the market could crash, causing you to feel bad that you invested when you did.

Of course, according to Bogleheads Investment Philosophy, you should only be investing in the first place into a diversified asset allocation. Also, you should only be holding volatile funds like stocks and bonds if your investing horizon is long enough to ride out their volatility.

For a completely rational investor, lump sum investing will always produce a higher expected return, because it immediately moves your funds from asset classes with lower expected returns to ones with higher expected returns. Note that higher expected returns do not guarantee that your actual returns will be higher. According to an investopedia article, [6] studies indicate that lump sum investing has produced higher returns 66% of the time.

Some investors have the goal, not of maximizing their expected returns, but of minimizing their potential regret. For those investors, dollar cost averaging is superior because it reduces the chances of investing just prior to a market drop. If you instead decide to invest 1/6th of the money each month for 6 months, you will reduce the chance of buying just before a crash. Instead, as the price fluctuates each month, you will buy more shares when the price is low and less when it is high.

Many new investors are more interested in minimizing their potential regret, and it's important that an ill-timed market drop not scare them off from investing in the future. Many experienced investors are more interested in maximizing their expected returns. You can also decide to split the difference, where you invest half immediately and the other half over 6 or so months.
...
wongmunkeong
post Jun 16 2014, 08:38 PM

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QUOTE(j.passing.by @ Jun 16 2014, 08:30 PM)
"However, in normal terms where we dont have $100K lump sum every year or three, then DCA, VCA or value hunting makes more sense coz if we just hold and time, bila nak masuk?"

"Nonetheless, DCA is far less nerve-wracking than a lump-sum investment, and if there is a major bear market around the corner, it can really pay off. In some situations, it is an ideal way of controlling both risk and stress."

Agreed with above. But investing yearly, whether it is 10k or 100k, can also be considered DCA if we do it 20-30 years.

And if I read it correctly as in the last part of the post (http://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Dollar_cost_averaging), lump sum investing is defined as a one-short, once-in-a-lifetime entire investment immediately.

This would means EPF withdrawal at age 50 or 55 for most of us. Might be too late to teach old dogs new tricks... investing is also an emotional game, and even though the market will turn around when there is a down turn, and even when all the financial experts advised against selling, new investors at that age (and at any age too) will tend to pull out...
*
U got a point there - laugh.gif like that 10 years once also DCA lar.
eh - but then ar, in 10 years time, the lump sum will most probably be more than the lump sum now leh, thus DCA meh? brows.gif
wongmunkeong
post Jun 21 2014, 12:00 PM

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QUOTE(kkk8787 @ Jun 21 2014, 08:42 AM)
1 year after joining.. do u think this is acceptable return?
*
bro - U didnt even share when U bought into each
or DCA
or what,
how lar just looking @ the screenshot to make judgement?

akin to asking mechanic about car condition
WITHOUT bringing the actual car (details),
but bringing a photo of the car. doh.gif
wongmunkeong
post Jul 4 2014, 01:09 PM

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QUOTE(Pink Spider @ Jul 4 2014, 11:40 AM)
My guess:

DJ/SP500 continues uptrend > investors will shun it, cos limited upside, move to Asia e.g. HK
DJ/SP500 drops > whole world crash together

So, what is your bet? biggrin.gif
*
now if U can put numbers to it and a deadline, U can sell a Call or Put Option on DJ (dunno what) or S&P500 (SPX) smile.gif

eg. Selling a naked Call
i bet that...
S&P 500 will NOT hit 2080
by end of 3rd week of July 2014 (ie Fri opening)
for $0.30 premium per unit (3 contracts *100 units)

OR
eg. Selling a naked Put
i bet that..
S&P 500 will not hit 1830
by end of 3rd week of July 2014 (ie Fri opening)
for $0.40 premium per unit (2 contracts *100 units)

heheh - bet lar by systemizing and sell time / probabilities tongue.gif

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Jul 4 2014, 01:10 PM
wongmunkeong
post Jul 4 2014, 01:17 PM

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QUOTE(Pink Spider @ Jul 4 2014, 01:12 PM)
Betting on market sweat.gif

I'd rather go dark tinted internet cafes and try my luck tongue.gif
*
ah.. young grasshopper.. the statistics of probability can be with U with Index options..
unlike against U in dark tinted cafes or casinos brows.gif

similar with investing - we are dealing with probabilities as GOOD biz equities statistically goes up if measured long term (tens of years).

ohm... laugh.gif
wongmunkeong
post Jul 4 2014, 04:42 PM

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QUOTE(kimyee73 @ Jul 4 2014, 04:15 PM)
Wah, your options buying power must be huge that they let you sell naked  thumbup.gif
*
small contracts only lar bro sweat.gif
anyhow, main thrust of the post is leveraging on statistical probabilities for investing or trading smile.gif
wongmunkeong
post Jul 5 2014, 11:46 PM

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QUOTE(tcchuin @ Jul 5 2014, 11:20 PM)
lol if one isn't even willing to discuss, then why are you even on a forum?
I'm willing to learn and to clear my misconceptions if I'm wrong.
I'm not even arguing.
oh well, whatever.
good luck.
*
some folks think that mutual funds = stocks,
not understanding mutual funds' NAV is a pure mathematical value of it's underlying assets (stocks, cash, debt instruments, etc) LESS charges (eg. yearly mgt fee minused daily from the value).

thus, logically - whether a fund's NAV down or up, it doesn't necessarily mean value or over value, unlike stocks - eg dividend paying stocks, which the Dividend Yield increases as the price goes down a lot (assuming dividend paid out is similar to last).

anyhow, to each his own reality & POV lar - i'm just stating statistical facts, not "feel" yar notworthy.gif
wongmunkeong
post Jul 6 2014, 05:19 PM

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QUOTE(yklooi @ Jul 6 2014, 04:45 PM)
ooops cannot attach excel file..."Upload failed. You are not permitted to upload a file with that file extension."
wondering why?
*
ZIP the file first then upload
OR
screenshot the related cells and upload.
heheh - learned this when i started trying to share Excels earlier smile.gif
wongmunkeong
post Jul 10 2014, 11:29 AM

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QUOTE(kimyee73 @ Jul 10 2014, 09:25 AM)
Wait till you experience the drop like 2008  sweat.gif
*
heheh - every trader or investor thinks they are experts in a bull market until kaka happens.

30 to 40%+/- wiped out (paper loss or not, still leaves one's stomach in a knot) end 2008, early 2009
no matter which part of the world yr fund is in.

80%+/- wiped out if funds/stocks were in Asia 1997-98

fun numbers sweat.gif

wongmunkeong
post Jul 10 2014, 11:09 PM

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QUOTE(wodenus @ Jul 10 2014, 10:45 PM)
Talk about fun numbers... KLCI was at 400... 400 points from the bottom lol smile.gif
*
heheh - 400?
lowest in 1998 was 200+ leh - it hit me square on my forehead, IMPRINTED laugh.gif
wongmunkeong
post Jul 10 2014, 11:28 PM

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QUOTE(wodenus @ Jul 10 2014, 11:12 PM)
LOL omg really.. that close to bottom smile.gif
*
yup... good lesson buying in at around 400-500 in mid-ish 2008.

The above is for the next wise-guy that says
"BUY BUY BUY - drop so low liao, cannot drop anymore"
or "SELL SELL SELL - already so high cannot fly liao",
please note that the the market may stay crazed for longer than U are liquid or yr sanity tongue.gif
wongmunkeong
post Jul 12 2014, 09:53 AM

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QUOTE(Pink Spider @ Jul 12 2014, 09:43 AM)
FSM and most analysts are now neutral or even underweight on US and Europe, everyone sees value on Asia ex Japan instead.

Do u still have room to increase Asia ex Japan exposure? My portfolio equity portion is currently about 34% exposed to US+Europe+Japan. I think I still have room to rotate...maybe reduce to 30%.

But my funds...if I top up

Eastspring Invesments GEM - very volatile fund, but quite rewarding
any or both of my Hwang funds - I would expose too much to Malaysia, currently at 10% sweat.gif

On hindsight, should have bought CIMB Asia Pac Dynamic Income...to increase exposure to China/HK AND Australia...currently I have ZERO on Kangarooland doh.gif
*
Rooland seems to be locked-step with CentreHorn <Chung Kok in Canto tongue.gif>
was in the dumps earlier 6 mths+
know coz was tracking coz i bought SG listed Roo ETF then myself + sis
wongmunkeong
post Jul 12 2014, 01:04 PM

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QUOTE(Pink Spider @ Jul 12 2014, 09:56 AM)
Rooland equities good for pure yield play lor...in Asia Pac region theirs have one of the highest divvy yields (ignoring forex movements). Currently none of my funds have exposure to Rooland sad.gif

So, wongseafood, what u reckon should we do? Just hold on and do nothing? I've not been topping up on my UTs for some time already...on the contrary been selling some useless funds (yea, its THAT AmDynamite) and moving money to REITs, CMMT and UOAREIT for yield play...yeah, cold hard cash rules biggrin.gif
*
i reckon? there are still value (low PE markets and low PE counters) in the world's markets.
Last month - did PG, WMT, TGT and IBM - big names that were hit by a truck/train and was down but their dividend has been steadily paid out AND increasing for the past 20 to 40 years+.

Thus, bottom line - while saving and having cash BUT dunno what to buy, seek and ye shall find laugh.gif
May not be the normal funds U use to DCA or VCA in if U think those are in markets or equities that are too rich now.
Have a plan - tweak the plan towards the same targets - many roads to Rome tongue.gif
No plan, no targets = haphazard approach OR when kaka hits the fan, fall apart - the exact same time when one should be going on a shopping spree.

Funny that those who thinks Indonesia is good.. shd have gone in when kaka hit the fan earlier in 2013 - when it fell like a stone 20%+ within 2 to 3 mths. Now up liao.. er.. go in?

"Chasing returns" is the biggest cardinal sin in fund investing IMHO - it's unlike stocks/options where buy higher, sell higher is do-able as it is just one counter. Trading mutual funds... bwhahah rich..
Funds = many MANY counters, like ETFs. Probability of buying high and selling higher like single stocks in Tesla and FB is low.

Just thinking out loud yar - no gospel truths. notworthy.gif

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Jul 12 2014, 01:04 PM
wongmunkeong
post Jul 14 2014, 10:46 AM

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QUOTE(xuzen @ Jul 14 2014, 10:38 AM)
You call her Ms Esther Teo, I call her Essie  wub.gif ...

Xuzen
*
and yr wife, Susan(?), will just twist ye ear without calling U tongue.gif
wongmunkeong
post Jul 15 2014, 12:49 PM

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QUOTE(jutamind @ Jul 15 2014, 11:05 AM)
i mean your portfolio as a whole, not just UT
*
Jutamind - just sharing ar my own tracking.

Net worth: all in (real assets VS liabilities) EXCEPT for cars, bikes, TVs, etc (fake assets)

Investment portfolio: Net worth LESS home, buffer & "daily operations cash", etc
ie. only value of businesses, trades, investments, cash & bonds for these, EPF (coz i use EPF for stocks/mutual funds)

Buffer + "daily operations cash": $ specifically NO TOUCH UNLESS BREAK GLASS FOR EMERGENCIES + daily/monthly cash flow (ie. cash equivalent +bond funds NOT for investments)

Then of course, track ratios such as:
Debt/Equity
Acid Test
ROE 12mths moving average
past year's ROE comparisons + yearly savings from man-at-work + yearly investment returns

With the above data monthly & yearly, i can then surmise whether i'm hitting my KPIs / goals, changes needed to whatever, overspending, personal inflation rate, etc.

Just a thought notworthy.gif
wongmunkeong
post Jul 15 2014, 06:07 PM

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QUOTE(jutamind @ Jul 15 2014, 03:53 PM)
thanks for the info.

if u have investment properties, that goes into net worth but not investment portfolio?
*
eh? for me, investment properties goes both into net worth AND investment portfolio
anything that is generating $ or traded (buy/sell) to make $ goes into investment portfolio
heck - i'm tracking my FiT solar thinggy too in my investment portfolio.

my investment property was in in my investment portfolio based on cost price +3%pa inflation only, until sold.
personally, i take a "pessimistic accounting" until proven otherwise - after sold, of course i take the cash at full value in my investment portfolio brows.gif

may not be right /wrong yar - just my personal logical categorisation sweat.gif

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Jul 15 2014, 06:10 PM
wongmunkeong
post Jul 15 2014, 06:13 PM

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QUOTE(woonsc @ Jul 15 2014, 03:38 PM)
well said.. need to hang around here to understand more from you guys biggrin.gif  tongue.gif
*
hang around to understand is one thing
learn to make opinions and decisions is another

U need to have yr own stance / methods as no one's trading or investing (2 different animals by themselves) methods and reasoning is the same.
Some may be similar BUT overall - including asset allocation or cut loss/not and stuff, will 99% never be exactly the same.

Not having a stance / view of yr own = U will panic or be swayed easily by others' logic or worse, fear/greed.

Just a thought notworthy.gif
wongmunkeong
post Jul 16 2014, 05:09 PM

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QUOTE(j.passing.by @ Jul 16 2014, 04:08 PM)
Maybe others can offer better opinions; as for me, I don't believe in investing in UT for the short term. I've even posted (in another thread) that my personal definition for long-term is 'forever'.  smile.gif

Be careful on using property as part of investment portfolio. If it is your "home", it could even be considered as expenses - not an asset. And as mentioned, IMO, property as an investment is passe.

We could do a long list of pros and cons on property vs. UT.

If some real estate expert can show the expected returns by investing into properties, some UT expert can also match the returns by using UT.

Personally for me, the important criteria would the legwork and research to do, the liquidity of the investment, and the volume of the investment per purchase.

With UT:
Legwork and research - I can do it from my desk.
Liquidity - I can sell anytime I want, and received the money within a week.
Volume - I can make a purchase with any amount I have with me, no matter how little I have, and I don't even need to make any loan to complete the purchase.

There's another option to your specify situation (which I hate to provide one-to-one advice as we have to make a whole lot of assumptions on whatever bits of personal information which were not provided): Maintain the fixed-price UT and use new savings to invest into the new funds.
*
add some salt & pepper:
Looking forward after i'm dead, properties "hard" to divide VS financial assets.
eg.
Placing more than 1 name in the transfer of ownership may cause big fights between the beneficiaries
OR someone may get stuck when others don't bother coming back from AU, UK, etc to sign-off
OR cost more yearly to "put in trust & manage" long term if kids are too young and/or i don't want to destroy them with $1M+ inheritance on lump sum.

Seen quite a bit of the above happening to friends & acquaintances - may not be happening for everyone lar.
Thus, if other investments can do as well WITHOUT the focused amount + leverage on just a few assets, why not (my personal thinking lar - not TRUTH for all).
Not against properties - just not focused only on them, i'm game if i find one of value heheh.
Asset allocation.. ohm... ohm.. laugh.gif

end of salt & pepper notworthy.gif (and if any forumers remember that pop duo, hey same gen!)

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