hi guys, this may seem like a stupid question, but does it damage the gear box or the engine parts etc when i stop the car by pressing on the brake while the gear is still on "D" for auto transmission cars?? I have the habit of switching to neutral gear whenever my car is not moving even when i'm waiting for the traffic light or car is not moving when i'm stuck in the traffic. but however my car is stolen and thus i'll be driving my dad's old '08 civic and he never switch to neutral gear whenever the car stops. will this damage any engine parts or gear box???

yup, surely, mostly the brake pad!

nope, no damage unless you let go of the brake pedal without noticing and crashing into the car infront.

the torque converter continues to spin but nothing is worn as only hydraulic fluid is being pumped around causing no wear

actually pushing to D and N often causes more damage as the clutch packs and valve body is used a lot more, having to switch constantly from D to N defeats te purpose of a auto gearbox.

just keep enough pressure on the brake pedal

thanks for the reply and info, i always thought this would damage the engine and maybe consuming more petrol when not switching to N gear while the car is not moving because before that i was driving an old saga and the car vibrates vigorously while car is not moving and still on D gear.

it can't consume any more than what the idle setting is allowing, if the engine mounting is broken it will also vibrate like hell

Your engine will be under stress without make it neutral..

It's ok. In D, the torque converter kept spinning fluid around the GB effectively cooling it down. In N, fluid will heat up.

err... It's the other way around la...

The fluid circulate as long as the engine is running ler... It's hotter in D

It consumes more cause the engine is having to push harder not to stall cause it is trying to move the car forward.

All auto transmission cars will disconnect the clutch/ torque convertor once it detects it is completely stopped and the brake is still pressed. Keep changing between n and d damages the gearbox faster than just pressing on the brake pedal.
I have friends driving same car where 1 will also change to n while waiting while the other just pressed on the brake. In the end the one who keeps changing to n need to change gearbox earlier.

I really didnt know that...

INM I heard CVT is not good if brake in Gear D....as well as DSG? True?

I believe quite so for CVT....since they are not EXACTLY conventional AT

But interesting topic though...since is related to good caring of the sensitive and 2nd most expensive component of the car after engine

All AT? CVT n DSG leh?

Serious? Wat car? locol or jdm or conti? tq

u sure that's not a typo error...

The torque converter is directly bolted to the engine flywheel, there is no such thing as disconnected, unless you're removing the engine / gearbox from the car.

Oh dear. I am one of those guys who always change to N whenever the car fully stops. If this damages the gearbox faster, then I might as well waste some fuel on D rather than spend thousands for a gearbox replacement later ...

Seen on jazz 08 and toyota altis. One should be cvt and the other is 4at.

U really mean both friends drive jazz and altis...n the one shift more D<->N GB kong earlier?

mebe the fren who shift more forgot to change GB oil

My 8.5yo City also No problem. I m a frequent shifter...

I read here:

http://www.topgear.com.ph/features/columns...uck-in-traffic#

Hi, Ferman!

I recently bought a Toyota Vios 1.5 equipped with a four-speed automatic transmission. I have a habit of shifting to neutral during stop-and-go traffic conditions and while waiting for the light to go green.

My question is: will this have a bad effect on my transmission? I feel like leaving the gear set to D during traffic consumes more fuel and might place additional stress on the brakes because it is trying to stop the car constantly. Is this true as well?

I used to drive a Lancer 1.6 equipped with CVT. I never really had a problem with the transmission despite doing the same thing. But I've read that CVT is different from a traditional automatic transmission, which the Vios has. I'm really wondering if this driving habit is good for my car or not.

Thank you very much for reading this letter.

Regards,

Dennis

Hi Dennis,

What you are doing is correct.

Quite a number of drivers, particularly the ones who picked up bad driving habits from other drivers who didn't know any better, often practice improper driving by not shifting to neutral when the car is not moving. While I would like to tell you that there is a good reason (under normal circumstances) for keeping it in D and stepping on the brakes at a stop, I can't. It's mostly born out of laziness and improper training.

As you have correctly surmised, the engine does consume more fuel and you do wear down your brake-system components more when you leave your transmission in D or Drive while the traffic light is red or when you’re idling and waiting.

With automatic transmissions, the engine is energizing or driving the transmission to move in the direction of the gear you've selected--forward or reverse. When you keep it in gear, you are telling your vehicle to move; when you're on the brakes, you're preventing motion. You're unnecessarily and slowly raising your automatic transmission fluid, wearing out your transmission clutches, and consuming more fuel because you're on the brakes to keep the car from inching forward. You're also unnecessarily wearing down and heating up your brake pads. By simply shifting to N or neutral there would be no need to apply the brakes with the amount of force required to resist forward motion.

If you notice all of the above result in unnecessary wear, all of which increase the cost of operating and maintaining your vehicle. It's also a very unsafe practice as if you happen to accidentally lift your foot off the brake, you will most likely get into an accident.

While we're on the subject of automatic transmissions, it is also a very bad habit to shift into P or Park when you're at a stoplight. Numerous drivers have adopted the practice as well and, quite frankly, it is also an accident waiting to happen apart from slowing damaging a different part of your transmission, which will eventually lead to the a different sort of automatic transmission failure.

It won't matter if your car has CVT or the conventional multi-speed automatic transmission. Shifting to neutral under most normal conditions is good practice.

Best regards,

Ferman Lao
Tech editor

Thanks. Pls contribute more links/reading material pls...I often googled for littlest shit, time to relax and let the young ppl google for me to read only Tx





This post has been edited by wayfeel: Dec 28 2013, 11:50 PM

Ok take that when you change to n. The ecu will tell the transmission to be disconnected, when you keep changing mode. The transmission will keep changing also, at the end it strains the ecu and the transmission, wears it out faster too right?
Which one more costly to replace? Brakes or transmission?

This post has been edited by DonMe: Dec 28 2013, 11:55 PM

Well I would do say it also depends on the atf used and the driving condition.

Usually, assuming they send to honta and toyoda SC in the first few years of their car ownership, then it safe to say the atf is the right kind to use....so left the driving condition...

then that said....ur friends, you should know their driving condition...however not everyone is 'capable' of 'hard driving'....if they r not near the rough ppl kind...the GB should durable for normal use....

Then again, I would probably trust in Ferman Lao....hehe

When kick down acceleartion, how about the brake pedal, still hold or let go? sry noob

guys.

i`ve a question

my car kinda shakes abit when i put on D and step on brake when waiting for the traffic light.

how to ease up the shakes eh?

new car do not shake at all when its in this situation

my car is 6 years old btw.

when is the lastime u change your GB oil, did you check what mileage d? there's one more that cause vibration but i dont rmb what d....after all resort done, then check your engine mounting last, usually not the case for 'normal car'

What car btw



This post has been edited by wayfeel: Dec 29 2013, 12:36 AM

hi.

thank you for your feedback.

i`ve changed my GB oil once last 15k km i think.

about engine mounting i think thats the problem

my car is honda accord 08.

One thing is when you guys decided to keep pressing on brake during a very long-stop.... Wasn't the shiny brake rear lamp is also shining at others' eye for a long period?

It's great that someone had posted to at least a link to an answer from the expert.

This post has been edited by davidlow7: Dec 29 2013, 03:08 AM

No choice ma... Doubt you will tell me you will tekan your gear in a start stop jam situation?

Ahem, no? DSG does disconnect when stopping, torque converters don't. At least those I drove. Not sure about CVT.

How can you wear out your brake pads when you are not moving? Say you put your hand on a table, and then pull it across the table. There is friction. Press down the hand and move with the same force... More friction. Press so hard that it can't move anymore... No friction. --> can't wear out. Only crawling with the brakes applied (but not to a full stop will wear out).

I usually disengage the gear while still rolling, and engage while rolling. I don't like the jerk when changing into D while standing (even with applied brakes). Getting to a full stop is also not that smooth with an auto gearbox. Not comfortable at all.

My next car will be manual again. There's no way I'll accept a car with automatic gearbox. So bloody troublesome, complicated and uncomfortable.

This post has been edited by kadajawi: Dec 29 2013, 11:25 AM

From what I know, DSG and CVT share the same concept which using clutch to connect to the engine shaft/flywheel. Car using CVT/DSG tends to rolling backwards (Unless there's 'Hill Assist' installed) even in a slight slope when in D mode while you release the brake. They are programmed to disengage the clutch when standstill and engage back when throttle applied. That's why these kind of transmission are also known as semi-auto.

In torque converter transmission, it use fluid as a connector (fluid coupling). However, in some auto transmission, there are ' lockup clutch'. This 'lockup clutch' will bypass the torque converter but only at highest gear. In standstill (D mode), the fluid still flows through the 'turbine' wheel. in a simple words, the transmission 'always connected' in D mode and that's why there are no delays when you hit the acceleration pedal.

For me, personally I will switch to N mode when car is stationary more than 1 minutes. Too much switching will sure deteriorate moving parts especially in stop and go bumper to bumper crawling traffic jam. For CVT/DSG, as they share the same concept, I think the best answer is here :

Punch Powertrain : Proton CVT

Just share my opinion.

Correction : Some CVTs do use torque converter instead of wet clutch.

This post has been edited by gjoey: Dec 29 2013, 02:28 PM

What I was saying is during a "long-stop"
Usually it is by waiting for the traffic light to turn green.....

doesn't matter what transmission, if they use torque converter which cvt uses, it's still oil that just circulating, it won't heat up anymore than usual operation as there is coolers that take care of that

Still hold lorrr, if let go u car moving aldy...

I prefer put N coz nowadays when stop start, everyone is busy typing/scrolling with their hp.
So if u forgot to brake or u accidentally lift up ur leg, u car will slowly hit front car while u're busy wassaping/fesbuking/twittering...

For traffic to turn green i will hand brake my car and leave it in D. For stop and go i will use brake. Constantly shifting N D N D is bad for engine mounting,CV joint, Valve body,1st gear clutch pack, lever cable and etc.

Ur 8.5 years old City using wat CVT fluid? Service at SC or outside?

BTW, who is that ferman lao?

I do "D" TO "N" all the time. Cuz in "D" car got sound.. Annoy the heck out of me... Especially when red traffic light and its showing "99"...

If my "D" gear no sound when idle with brake, I'll still put it in "D". (When I kick the air-cond off, the sound will be gone, then I still leave it in "D")

Conclusion, always do your shifting with leg fully pressed on brake, that will give your auto GB the least amount of stress, wear, tear... Every gear change will put at least some amount of wear or stress.

This post has been edited by Post-Je-Ape-Ape: Dec 29 2013, 05:25 PM

Just had the same question few weeks ago and asked my mechanic about it. He however suggested that if my car is in a complete stop for a long period of time it is better to switch to N even if your only stopping awhile.

I am driving a Waja 2003 AT model. When I feel the traffic light gona be green soon I just leave it in D otherwise if long stop I will switch to N. However I am still not sure if this is a good driving habit.

Any insight on this matter would be very helpful

This discussion will bring to a very long and many pages yet don't have concrete answer. There are always got 2 school of thought,the pro N and the Pro D .

Ferman lao is the author write teh article in the earliest link provided in this topic. myb page1

CVTF fluid since delivery. SC for all warranty period and another 1-2 years for that, the rest outside...

No GB juddering at standstill, D or N watsoever, touchwood

There's a simple solution.

Long stop put to N
short stop just put in D...

How long you decide la.. For me it's 30 seconds or so.

Can close thread.

it will consume more fuel if you in D and brake. Because the engine is constantly under load. Confirmed this with OBDII readout.

ermm.. torque converter is kept spinning, which means the fluid is constantly under stress, friction, motion, and therefore should heat up more than N.

i think is totally the otherway round. Most AT when in D, the clutch is always engaged even when brake is pressed. Its just that the torque converter allows enough slippage so that the engine won't stall. I said 'most AT car', because i know some car's gearbox is smarter and will disengage clutch during brake. the first car i experience has that effect is prius C (well i donno if the Snergy Drive system is considered a gearbox in any traditional sense...)

THISSS!! i also hate it when the guy infront me blast my face with his super bright led brake light in a 90 sec red light.

As for myself, i do switch to N during red light or any stops longer than 10-15 secs. i don't think my habit (10-15 secs stops) is considered as N D N D N D which maybe is no good also.

When service outside, wat CVTF u use? I wan service outside too, but not sure wat brand of CVTF to use.. Honda's gearbox too..

The Prius HSD doesn't have a clutch at all. It's very different from normal gearboxes, including CVT ones. Best is you watch a video on YouTube that explains it, there is one that takes the gearbox apart, does a great job at explaining it.

this.

close thread liao.

Ya me also lik tht. It balances both school of advocates...it abit logic

/klose tered

I used honda bottle CVTF GB oil...U can buy it at Honda SC n tak it to outside wokshop if U wan absolute surety

U bought from Honda SC too? How much? And how many liter?

car not moving=neutral
so, simple...when not moving, put to neutral.

why need to crack down ur head only to ASSUME there will be more damage
when oil not circulate, gear level switch, ECU working, connect disconnect bla bla bla
and ignoring expertise opinion...

when not moving, put to N for neutral..of course it is AUTO..but actually it was
AUTO to moving. not AUTO to stop...thats why it will drag you to move while stop in
D (drive) mode. It will put ur engine under unnecessary stress. Also, stop while in D (drive) sound stupid to me...it sound more logic if STOP=NEUTRAL...dont you get it?

only put in P (parking) if you are really PARKING...not stopping.

My dad use D all the way, when he reaches destination put to N

The gearbox never break down altho change atf oil every 40k km

Potong waja

Appreciate all of your replies here but my question is whether or not by doing so will damage the engine or gearbox, not asking whether should I put to N or just leave it at D while car is stopping.

I think most replies are quite relevant. To put your auto gearbox in D or N after the car stops at idle will determine if the engine and gearbox gets more stressed.

I'm old school and I put to N if I know it's going to be a long stop.

i stick by my stand, no, the gearbox and engine are not operating in abnormal condition hence no damage will occur

Leave a car on a flat road, shift the gear to D, forward gear engaged and the car will move forward. A car has 4 wheels, whenever being placed uphill or downhill, depends on the moving direction, it will move faster or slower. A car carries weight and has an engine. On the other hand, if we put our hand on a table, our hand does not have wheels, nor engine. So I disagree there is no friction. The friction applied by the brake pads offset the force vehicle moving forward, therefore it is not moving, under D gear.

I am amuse by some people who are so particular on taking care of their cars. My POW is that, car is a liability, and subject to wear and tear. On the roads, how many cars have you seen are >10 years, >15 years or even > 20 years. I believe most of these major parts, should last at least during the ownership of the vehicles. A car is designed in a way to wear out, therefore IMHO, it is good to know but no point argue over this. If it is something very crucial, it will be told and mentioned. Too bad if you do a search, there are 2 schools and no definite answer. To take care of transmission, it is not only D and N, the way the driver maneuver, maintenance, design and etc. have more influences.

This post has been edited by gold member: Dec 30 2013, 03:40 PM

Kinetic friction, ie: stopping a moving car, causes brake pad wear.

Static friction, ie: keeping a stopped car from moving, does not cause brake pad wear. Provided that the force pressing the brake pad against the brake rotor is stronger than the force trying to move the car.

Pizik teacher here!!

Thank you That was what I meant

1 dumb question , say a car is going up a slope and then downhill..would it be damaging shifting from D -> N while is coasting down the slope?

yes. and also dangerous

Get honda hybrid....then no need worry on putting into N gear at traffic junction
It will autostop...