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 Car Care and Detailing [V3], LYN Automotive Detailing Thread

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jchue73
post May 28 2014, 07:15 PM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ May 28 2014, 06:39 PM)
well! hassle is one thing, having a running tap means you're wasting a lot of water. and with the recent selangor water BS, it helps to be a weeee bit more conservative, no?
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Yes, great that you brought it up. When the taps are dry, I don't wash the car. If I was doing ONR, I would seriously consider 2 or 3 bucket method with grid guards. But like some old school people here, I am one of those that don't subscribe to the ONR idea. Anyway, that's another topic for discussion. biggrin.gif

You should see how little the power washer uses water when it cleans so much more efficiently. The nett effect is I wash the car in a shorter time and hence use even lesser water. At times, I skip the soaping step and conserve water further actually because I don't have to rinse soap off the car.

You may think I use a lot of water by having to wash the cloths and mits everynow and then but have a go at washing your microfibre cloths / mits with a power washer and see how fast and how easy you get to wash them with so much less water used.

QUOTE(Quazacolt @ May 28 2014, 06:39 PM)
the idea is that grit guard suspends dirt beneath so it won't get back into your sponge/mitt.
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So you can be certain that all dirt suspended in the water will remain at the bottom only?

QUOTE(Quazacolt @ May 28 2014, 06:39 PM)
if you're ocd enough, can employ multi layer grit guards/multi bucket or pail with multi layer grit guards
i personally am doing a 2 bucket system with 4 grit guard (previously only 1, which i think is enough already, just adding my ocd level)
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Yes, stacking a few grid guards is a great idea but as mentioned earlier, I don't like that same dirty water is still used for washing and rinsing the cloths and mits.

QUOTE(Quazacolt @ May 28 2014, 06:39 PM)
well for starters without soap would potentially induce more maring/issue since you're washing without lubrication.
i only did that once with my youtube demo (which i linked before here), but that's also because i am forfeiting the current wax, and going with a ULW top up + trying out sonax BSD, so the surface condition wasn't a top priority at that moment.
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Hmmm, firstly even with soap, I don't wash like like a Bangla. For times when I wash without soap, I rely on the power washer to blast the panel surface thoroughly. I even minimise contact of the panel surface when drying up the car by blow drying. smile.gif I subscribe to the idea that less contact with the cloth on the panel surface = less marring. thumbup.gif
jchue73
post May 29 2014, 12:27 AM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ May 28 2014, 07:21 PM)
FYI: i don't go with ONR too, and i have a karcher power washer laugh.gif

and i am certain that dirt is suspended beneath because during the the first few rinse when the bucket/water is still clear enough, you can see the dirt sink and no matter how you stir with the grit guards blocking the dirt just stay beneath

AFTER you're done and when you're pouring out the water, you'll realize how dirty the the water is but surprisingly it never get back on your mitts
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You really believe it does not get back to the mitts, do you? smile.gif Some dirt you can see but most you cannot with the naked eye.

In order to achieve this optimally, you'd probably need to frequently change the water in the bucket. wink.gif

QUOTE(Quazacolt @ May 28 2014, 07:41 PM)
i have answered, and if you're not convinced, google will help answer:
https://www.google.com.my/search?q=how+does..._sm=93&ie=UTF-8
"how does grit guard work"

http://www.gritguard.com/faqs/
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/produc...html#post236193

and a video test!

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The video test is a little flawed. It assumes all dirt are huge and heavy. The ones that causes swirls and marring are always the smaller lighter particles.

Anyway it's easy to just spew out Google searchers. The ironic thing is that in those searchers, there's pros but also cons about using grit guards. So there you go. It's not bullet proof solution. First hand experience and logic also tells that it's good to have if you choose to wash the way people usually wash their cars.

QUOTE(scoutfai @ May 28 2014, 09:05 PM)
@jchue73
I have no pressure washer (not yet, will be soon). But even if I have one I will still use grit guard whenever I need to use bucket to wash (if that needs arise, not 100% sure it will arise or not after got the PW).
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I rarely dilute soap in the bucket or have a bucket with fresh water. If I did, it would probably be for the wheels. Nowadays, I don't wash my wheels with soap unless it's oily or really necessary which they are not 90% of the time.

QUOTE(scoutfai @ May 28 2014, 09:05 PM)
I do think the grit guard works. Do I have proof? No. But so far my experience haven tell me the otherwise, or it has not disappoint me yet.

Do I think that it prevents 100% any dirt from getting up again?
Definitely no, as soon as one creates a vortex spiral it probably will suck up with the flow (at least I believe that way). But having said that, nothing in this world is foolproof (at least not in the detailing world) and there is always a procedure that yield better assurance than the others.
In this case if logic already tell us vortex could bring back the dirt up, then simply do not spin the water in the bucket (with grit guard) like a 5 years old kid, then solve the issue, even not 100%, bring it to the maximum assurance one can achieve with the current technology and resources.
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Good advise. But how do you rinse your mitts without any causing any motion to the water in the pail? biggrin.gif

Yeah it's good when dirt particles are relatively huge and heavy which they will easily sink and settle down but you cannot say the same for those minute ones that causes swirls. You would need to wait for like 15 to 30 minutes for those minute dirt to settle down (maybe more?) and carefully wash and dip your mitt so as not to cause any disturbance to the water in the pail so that the dirt does not get agitated in the water. Don't think that's remotely possible. hmm.gif

QUOTE(scoutfai @ May 28 2014, 09:05 PM)
I do think that there are other washing methods that can give swirl free result without the use of grit guard. One way being your way, after all the purpose of grit guard is to prevent particles from sticking back onto the mitt, this objective is achievable by other means.
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Yup.

QUOTE(scoutfai @ May 28 2014, 09:05 PM)
Nevertheless, I think given the cost and level of safety assurance it can give, I still think grit guard is a very cost effective way. It is especially useful to those without convenient access to free flow water source like apartment, though I do not live in apartment.
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Agreed.

QUOTE(scoutfai @ May 28 2014, 09:05 PM)
PW using the method you mention, would requires the frequent stop and go of the pump, no matter how tough a machine is designed to, a machine used in a stop and go manners will always not last as long as a machine which used in a continuous operating manner. Of course if the life span is reduced to say, 5 years only, but user already throw it away at 3rd year then completely no need to worry about this.
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Yes. Wear and tear and not to mention electricity too. Oh well, we do anything to wash our car. tongue.gif When it comes to bathing, it's just with our plain hands like somebody mentioned. blush.gif

QUOTE(scoutfai @ May 28 2014, 09:05 PM)
One of the forum member here taught me the PW uses less water, forgotten is it you  laugh.gif  I buy this idea. which is why i will get one  icon_rolleyes.gif 
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I believe sifu Krismas confirmed this actually. I was initially not sure.

QUOTE(scoutfai @ May 28 2014, 09:05 PM)
Another reason is of course bro @KrisMas selling cheap so I see no harm getting more 
I think after I got the PW, I most likely will blow the mitt with PW like you suggested, then I still dip in to grit guard pail LOL.
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laugh.gif Yeah, I'm guilty for buying a lot of stuff too because it's cheap but at the end of the day I find some are really useful while others I can do without.
jchue73
post May 29 2014, 02:05 AM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ May 29 2014, 02:00 AM)
in a perfect world you'd probably have industrial grade PW's and ready buckets of filtered water with/without grit guards and high pressure blowers  fitted throughout the entire room so you never even have to dry and risk marring etc.

but hey, i don't live in a perfect world so that's that. smile.gif
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Hey, by your definition, I don't live in a perfect world either. icon_rolleyes.gif

I don't have industrial grade power washer
I don't have buckets of filtered water
I don't have grid guards ohmy.gif
I don't have high pressure blowers fitted in an entire room
jchue73
post May 29 2014, 03:06 PM

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QUOTE(scoutfai @ May 29 2014, 07:59 AM)
How you manage to keep your daily driver wheel so clean 90% of the time?
So usually you just wash with plain water on the wheel?
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Yup. I try and constantly keep the car clean. I wash them on a weekly basis. It helps that both cars are parked indoors at home and indoors at work too.

But then I notice that the wheels on the SUV are damn dirty and dusty always. Don't know why. Lucky no tar deposits but more so brake dust. Lots of it. sad.gif I did put some old wax on the wheels before but I think no more liao.

My other car is much older and brake dust is very little. Wheel design also easier to clean unlike the SUV which take time to clean inside out.

If the tyre dressing is still ok, I will just briefly spray water on it If I see that there's no more tire dressing, I'll wash it with soap or or degrease it.

I used to use Meguiar's Super Degreaser D108 at 10:1 dilution on the wheels but I think it's a little bit too much for weekly wash. I tried out just with plain water and it cleans just as good. For times if I need something stronger, it'll just use car shampoo but that's it. I also blow dry the wheels when I'm done.

QUOTE(scoutfai @ May 29 2014, 07:59 AM)
I am sure you have look into great detail on the safety level of different washing method base on your obsessiveness  biggrin.gif . But I think we can always find another person who looks thing into even greater detail and obsessive level and begin questioning "How do you sure that by blowing the mitt with PW there will be no grit at all in the mitt?"
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Yes, interesting that you brought up safety level. You need to take precaution on your eyes, hands and feet when using a power washer. I kena many times when the skin on my toes or hand would just be ripped off when I accidentally sprayed on them.

QUOTE(KrisMas @ May 29 2014, 12:38 PM)
Guys, forget about the washing already. With or without the grit guard, proper washing methods/techniques can minimize wash-induced marring...any method would do...there's no RIGHT or WRONG here...just personal preferences.

The grit guard does work for me, but it's just ONE OUT OF THE MANY items that can be use to REDUCE the risks....that's all. Once you get the washing method right, DON'T FORGET that other thing that is even riskier than washing - DRYING. That is the time when the paint surface is semi-wet/semi-dry with ZERO lubrication other than the water (or whatever left of it) itself.
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Agreed. Just sharing my method. That's all.

QUOTE(iamsobloodysick @ May 29 2014, 01:48 PM)
grit guard - i own one but i dont feel anything so special

washing shampoo - i'm using Zaino, Dodo Juice, Modesta, Willson, Zymol, Polish Angel

washing sponge - Dodo juice supernatural, Zaino lambswool wash mitt

drying towel - Duragloss Plush MicroFiber Drying Towel, cobra guzzler HD waffle weave, cobra guzzler waffler weave
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I'm actually more interested in the picture you posted. biggrin.gif
jchue73
post May 30 2014, 02:39 PM

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QUOTE(iamsobloodysick @ May 30 2014, 08:50 AM)
The application of sealant is 3hours after the glass coating.

Best time to apply glass coat is 10-11am on a dry day and sealant is later afternoon.

Sunday is recommended.

The finishing is like hard candy, The shine is insane.

Glass coat molecule is smaller than sealant and so sealant has to be applied at outer layer and it acts as weather shields to the inner coating.

Now my car after a heavy downpour, the car shine again as the rain flushes the dust away.

Good preps of paintwork is strongly required.
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You mention about applying an additional sealant on top of the glass coat?

I did not see or read anything about a sealant after applying the glass coat on Hikari website. They only talk about the conditioner which should be applied every 3 to 4 months to increased protection and water rejection.
jchue73
post May 30 2014, 05:29 PM

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QUOTE(iamsobloodysick @ May 30 2014, 04:57 PM)
conditioner = sealant / polymer
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Ok. I suspected as much. biggrin.gif
jchue73
post Jun 23 2014, 09:28 AM

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QUOTE(scoutfai @ Jun 22 2014, 12:47 AM)
New toy arrive!

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

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Congrats. Definitely good buy with the promo and free stuff. The extra power and the 9m hose extension is the reason I got this model. No free gift for me that time when I got mine. I had to buy the accessories myself. Incidentally I used my CIMB points worth RM 1k to redeem something from Senq for the wifey. laugh.gif

Anyway, it does not end there. When I replaced the stock dirt blaster to the DB 160 because stuck, I bought a few accessories along the way like the rotating brush and the telescopic spray lance to help wash my windows. sweat.gif

user posted image

user posted image

Wah so many questions... sweat.gif

QUOTE(scoutfai @ Jun 22 2014, 12:47 AM)
@jchue73 since you got the same machine I wish to ask some questions as a 1st time user:

(a) The top holder for hand-spray gun, it does not seem to be nicely design to fit perfectly to the spray gun lance or the spray gun handle. I mean I expect it to slide down from top smoothly, and same when want to take out, but the reality is I have to brute force insert it down and take it up. Are yours the same?
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Well, it's a little tight and I think it's meant to be that way. How else can you ensure that the lance is secured properly in that position when you want to move the pressure washer around?

QUOTE(scoutfai @ Jun 22 2014, 12:47 AM)
(b) After the trigger on the spray gun handle is pulled completely, it has about 1second lag before the machine starts to pump out pressurized water jet. It is not like the normal garden hose nozzle where the moment we pull on the trigger the water jet out instantly. Are yours the same?
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Yes, 1 or 2 second delay. The pump does not work the moment you press the trigger. Sort of turbo lag. laugh.gif

QUOTE(scoutfai @ Jun 22 2014, 12:47 AM)
(c ) During installation of the dosage regulator for detergent, there are two transparent tube to be inserted into the plastic, grey color hose fittings (two hose fittings on the machine). But there is no instruction on which tube insert into which hose fitting. Is it doesn't matter?
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I need to look at it again. Never realised there were two tubes.

QUOTE(scoutfai @ Jun 22 2014, 12:47 AM)
(d) Come with the machine is a bottle of detergent, with a special cap/locking lid. It is to be used to have soap output in the water jet. I removed the lid (as instructed) and insert the detergent reservoir with opening facing down into the detergent connection, and adjust the dosage regulator (the dial in front) to Max. Then I press on the spray gun handle with the spray lance at Max position. I do not observe any soap/foam water on the ground I sprayed on. Then I turn the spray lance to Mix position, the water is just flowing out like normal garden hose strength (no strong jet effect at all), I can now see very little foam on the ground. I knew now detergent is mixed in the water output. But then is this means that in between Min and Max position of the spray lance, despite the dosage regulator for detergent (the dial in front) has been turn to Max position, there is still no detergent will be mixed at all in the output. The Mix position on the spray lance is the only setting to have detergent output?
That is very slow water flowing rate at the Mix position, kind of disappointed. I was expecting between Min and Max spray lance position, I also has soup output, but in Mix I have normal garden hose flowing rate only. I wonder did I do anything wrong or this is the intended design feature.
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What you observed is the same as what I observed too. I rarely used the detergent mixer and only found it out when I was cleaning the windows with the telescopic mount. Soap comes out maximum at minimum setting on lance and max setting on the machine. And that too does not work properly because of the extra load due to the length of the telescopic mount. I had to prime the soap to come out and then put on the telescopic mount to get the soap up there in the windows.

QUOTE(scoutfai @ Jun 22 2014, 12:47 AM)
(e) In picture 2, the brush accessory. When I connect this to the spray gun handle, the water output is actually just normal flow rate of garden hose, no jet. If the spray lance is removed and left only the spray gun handle, the speed of water flow of spray gun handle alone is the same speed of water flow I got from the brush accessory. I am not sure you have this accessory or not but if you do, is this normal?
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I don't have this accessory but I have the rotating brush which has the same amount of water you observed. Very normal water flow.

QUOTE(scoutfai @ Jun 22 2014, 12:47 AM)
Kind of lengthy sorry for the trouble. Appreciate if you can feedback some of your experience with me.
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No problem. You are actually the first other K5700 owner I came across actually.


QUOTE(scoutfai @ Jun 22 2014, 12:47 AM)
And yes you are right, once the spray lance is removed with only the spray gun handle connected to the machine, the water output is so little. Use pressure washer definitely use much lesser water than normal garden hose.
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Yes, thanks for confirming.

QUOTE(scoutfai @ Jun 22 2014, 12:47 AM)
Edit:
Ok I think question (b) you can ignore because I found the following video and I believe mine is behaving normally.
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

I think the video also partially answer my question (a) because after I watch it, if you notice the guy does not install the bottom holder for spray lance gun, this enable him to insert the spray gun a bit lower and have the top holder holding more of the middle part of the spay gun handle. And notice he does not pull it out or insert from top to bottom, just straight away take it from front. I tried mine without the spray lance (because I installed the bottom piece) and with just the spray handle alone the top holder can let it slide in (top to bottom) smoother. Nevertheless I still wish to hear your personal experience on my question (a).
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Took a few reads to really understand your last question. Yes, I notice the guy in the video did not install the plastic mount at the bottom of the pressure washer that is suppose to support the lance at the tip when you lock the lance in position. Sometimes this plastic piece comes out and I don't like it because the lance is not held properly in place especially when you use the wheels to move the pressure washer from one place to another.

Anyway, I just snap the lance into the holder and take it off from the side clamp. No issues.

QUOTE(scoutfai @ Jun 22 2014, 11:01 AM)
Thanks  tongue.gif
I have a some credit card points to use up and I stumble upon this machine in the fair, so I think this is the most worthy redemption I can get.
I knew you have one too dont jelly  rclxms.gif

But this beast is dangerous too, I accidentally spray the dirt buster on my leg and I feel like 100 rotan beating on my toes. So painful. I am going to blast the mouse sneaking into my house with this  cool2.gif
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Yes, many times the dirt blaster has rip off the skin from my hands and legs. cry.gif
jchue73
post Jun 25 2014, 05:57 PM

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QUOTE(scoutfai @ Jun 23 2014, 01:11 PM)
Thanks bro jchue73 for your patience and detail reply.  notworthy.gif  I appreciate very much for your input.
hey the two pictures you posted I am unable to see it. Can check is the link correct?
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Still cannot see? Those are pics from Karcher's website. Here's some I took;

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


QUOTE(scoutfai @ Jun 23 2014, 01:11 PM)
Oh the default dirt blaster comes with the machine can be stuck? Do you have any word of advice on what preventive measure to take to avoid it becoming stuck? When I shake the dirt blaster lance I can hear some kind of ball inside.
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I also don't know why it could have happened. My mains are filtered and not possible with debris contamination. But apparently over time that's a common problem. Not so expensive to buy the dirt blaster. A little over RM 100 if I'm not wrong.

QUOTE(scoutfai @ Jun 23 2014, 01:11 PM)
What do you mean by this procedure? Do you mean you have to prepare a bucket of soap water yourself first then let the machine feed on this bucket of soap water? (the user manual says this model can suck water from a tank).
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I take out the connection to the telescopic lance and just run the machine (at free flowing low pressure). Then the soap comes out. Once it comes out, I stop and plug it in back to the telescopic lance.

So I guess Karcher's reply does make sense that the soap works in low pressure mode.

QUOTE(scoutfai @ Jun 23 2014, 01:11 PM)
thumbup.gif  It is a good machine, I tried yesterday on a full car wash and I am satisfy with the performance. But skill has to change a bit. My first spray not only wet my own car, but also my neighbor car  laugh.gif
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LOL

QUOTE(scoutfai @ Jun 23 2014, 01:11 PM)
I tried the foam lance that comes in the free gift and it is by far the most fun of the entire PW user experience. I only wish I can control the jet strength with the foam lance but unfortunately it is fix for foam lance. Wonder why.
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I don't have Karcher's foam lance. I bought one from ebay. I like it a lot. Foam spray is nice but the spary distance is still limited but acceptable.

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


QUOTE(thom_chai @ Jun 23 2014, 02:40 PM)
@scoutfai Congrats on the purchase! It's every man's wet dream... jk biggrin.gif

Anyway, is the machine suitable for prolonged usage like more than 2 hours non stop cleaning the house compound?
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The max I've tried is 1 hour plus straight washing my pond. By that time, your hands will be sore from having to press on the trigger. sweat.gif

I use my power washer every week. In total, I accumulate roughly about 2 hours of usage every week.

QUOTE(scoutfai @ Jun 25 2014, 07:26 AM)
@jchue73

Got reply from Karcher Asia Malaysia.

1) The dosage regulator for detergent hoses have no specific rule on which hose fittings to insert to. So it is completely arbitrarily and will not affect the performance of the machine.

2) The detergent mixing function will only performed when the lance is at low pressure mode. Hence when user turn the Vario Power spray lance to MIN or MIX (which is a even lower MIN), then only soap will output.

3) Same goes to foam lance, which is the reason why it has no Vario Power feature like the spray lance, because in order to let foam lance produce foam, the water jet must be in low pressure mode, so by default the foam lance is already made into low pressure output opening.
(So I guess it pretty much same like foam gun principle, too much pressure not much soap output)
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Nice. thumbup.gif Thanks for posting. I also did not know the answers to your questions. Good to know that Karcher does respond to questions.

One tip which I think is worth mentioning is to change the plastic nozzle on the power washer to a brass one.

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


Broke the plastic one when I was shifting the power washer when it knocked into something.

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

jchue73
post Jun 26 2014, 09:23 AM

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QUOTE(scoutfai @ Jun 26 2014, 08:03 AM)
I can see the pictures already. Nice accessories you have there.
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Needed them because I have to wash my house windows on the 2nd floor.

QUOTE(scoutfai @ Jun 26 2014, 08:03 AM)
Wouldn't this means you will have to repeat this procedure over and over again whenever the soap has finish blast off the wall?
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Yes. sweat.gif But I only use the soap dispenser when I wash the outside windows (not very often) with the telescopic lance.

QUOTE(scoutfai @ Jun 26 2014, 08:03 AM)
I have seen this kind of 3rd party foam cannon before. It has larger detergent container.
My question, what is the function of the dial at the top of the bottle?
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Most of the time my solution is less than half the bottle. Around 1/3 of it only. The dial is to regulate how much air goes in (how much foam gets produced). You can also change the flow pattern and how much flow goes out by twisting the front nozzle.

QUOTE(scoutfai @ Jun 26 2014, 08:03 AM)
Thanks for the reminder and advice on the plastic nozzle. I did read some user review comment on ebay and amazon before on this particular pressure washer model and some of them did complaint about the supplied plastic nozzle breaking apart like yours. I take you advice and have it changed ASAP.  wink.gif
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Well, you don't have to change it ASAP. It's nice to have a brass replacement handy because if the plastic one breaks, you cannot do work and the power washer cannot function. Lucky I have a spare which I took from one of my garden taps.
jchue73
post Jul 3 2014, 01:12 AM

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QUOTE(scoutfai @ Jun 27 2014, 10:26 PM)
Ok bro I help you email Karcher Malaysia and here is the feedback.
The K5.700 is designed for home use and recommended continuously nonstop operating duration is about 1hrs.
For continuously nonstop (emphasize here, nonstop, mean the trigger never let go) longer than 1hr, they recommend the light industrial use pressure washer model HD7/11-4C.

user posted image

Although it looks giant in size, but the max pressure is only 110 bar. It is electric motor. I think the strength is lies in its durability for long term usage, because it uses crankshaft pump to pressurize the water, which is a much more durable design by nature. Another being the flow rate. K5.700 is only maximum 460 L/h, this one maximum is 700L/h.

Remark that not recommended does not mean cannot. Like what @jchue73 has tried himself, 2hrs continuously no issue. it is just means that it is not the original design intention.
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OMG. Why did Karcher recommend such a huge machine? They could have recommended the HD 5/11 C, HD 5/12 C or HD 6/15 C. Less bulky and the design looks more like the K5.700.

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


QUOTE(thom_chai @ Jun 29 2014, 03:36 PM)
Hey bro, thanks so much for the valuable info! HD7/11-4C is a little too hardcore for household usage I suppose haha.

Still prefer the look of the K 5.700. Not too big, just nice smile.gif
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Take a look at the HD 5/11 C, HD 5/12 C or HD 6/15 C. Note that they are for commercial use and therefore built better than the consumer ones and much heavier too.

Also, they operate using hydraulic oil which you have to check from time to time.
jchue73
post Jul 25 2014, 05:31 PM

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QUOTE(scoutfai @ Jul 25 2014, 12:41 PM)
Do you use some kind of filter that able to turn hard water to soft water?
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If you are really looking to get soft water cheap and easy , you can go to aquarium shop and get a water conditioner. Pour according to the label into a large bucket of water. Pour more also does not hurt.

user posted image

RM 70++ if I'm not wrong for the big 2L bottle on the right. Expensive but very effective for my pond.

I use it to neutralise chlorine, chloramine and undesirable metals for the tap water before it goes into the pond. It creates very soft water. Can easily make bubbles without soap.

But no, I don't use it for car washing / detailing. Don't need to create suds because I rarely use soap to begin with. biggrin.gif

Anyway, something from Japan came into my post box today. rclxm9.gif Hope can do something during the long weekend.
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post Jul 26 2014, 08:09 AM

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QUOTE(scoutfai @ Jul 25 2014, 11:27 PM)
This one very fast finish consume leh. Do not think cost effective enough for long run. But thanks for the idea.  smile.gif
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Well, tell it to koi keepers. We rely on this stuff like this from week to week and it's the only way to get the correct water quality.

QUOTE(scoutfai @ Jul 25 2014, 11:27 PM)
But i curious, from video once such chemical pour into the water, there is white precipitation formed and settle down at the bottom. How you want to remove this residue?
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Residue? No residue from what I use.

QUOTE(scoutfai @ Jul 25 2014, 11:27 PM)
You are a rare person who can wash the car without soup. I doubt you got drive the car out or not.
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From time to time, I do still use soap. But when I can, I'll avoid. Go with the feel.

QUOTE(scoutfai @ Jul 25 2014, 11:27 PM)
Share some pics what poison you bought for yourself.
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