I assume normal 15A is not enough?

Are those 4mm cable capable of 20A?

Please advise I am not exactly sure...

What is hobs watt rating?

4mm² can handle 20amps no problem.

one is 4100 and another one 4500.. two hobs.. one for dry n one for wet

Not all hobs have the same requirements. Some have batteries and do not need a power outlet, others need a plug point.

Best is to decide on a hob and purchase it prior to doing your electrical wiring or based on existing availability.

Had a friend who thought all hobs were done the same and did not communicate to his interior designer which hob he bought. Ended up having to pull wiring as his required a plug point. Needless to say he wasn't very happy with the final result. LOL!

This post has been edited by adrianjc: Nov 17 2013, 08:36 PM

I have a 4 zone cooking hob (haven't install yet), the nominal power on it is 6000W

so 6000W/230V = about 25 or 26amp if I calculate right.

in this case, you need to read the specs of the electric hob, not just the advantage of the hob you are looking at.
Always ask the salesperson questions if you are really keen to get that hob, it will be easier to tell the electrician.

This post has been edited by S'aimer: Nov 17 2013, 11:23 PM

There is thsi "IEE wiring regulation 2001", usually follow by UK, and most commonwealth.

If I recall, 4mm cable, is 25Amps, and with ambient temperature of 35c, we need to multiply the temperature correction factor of 0.94. So is about 23.5Amps.

Below updated guide, is a very good reference for "thos" claim as profession wireman, please refer.

http://www.rsb.gov.ae/uploads/ElecWiringRegs2007Rev01.pdf Page 155.

You need minimal 4mm

What kind of hob that suck such a high power? Restaurant use?

And you need sparate set of wire and mcb for each. No sharing for your 2 hob.

lol, which restaurant uses electric hob? Usually is gas hobs for restaurants and the only electric hobs are those 1 zone portable electric induction hob for steamboat and that alone won't consume that much power.

Its a teka vitroceramic hob with 4 zones.

Induction hobs with 4 zones have connection rating of 7200W/32AMP, apparently induction hobs consume more power than vitroceramic hobs based on comparisons of the W/AMP rate for induction and vitroceramic types and this would be only if u cook on all 4 zones simultaneously like gas hobs. Just read the technical specs and you can do the comparisons.

Can you show me where is the consume/comparison tehnical spec? I go in the website. But only state roughly spec. Even the pdf brochure.

7.2kw is killing. Unless over hundred bill everymth is kacang putih.

may i know is it check power comsuption? If 4600W share power means 2300W each side 20amp enough?

This post has been edited by petlu28: Nov 19 2013, 10:14 AM

Don't get what you mean.

My Hob if both side if ON maximum need 4600W. So if i cabling 20amp enough or not?

why would you want electric hob? They start slow, consumes a lot of energy. I have a Fish and Paykel that I don't use. I use a single induction hob instead which is great -it heats up fast and cheap to operate and doesn't heat up your whole house.
If I can do again, I would totally scrap electric hob, install ikea two/four induction cooker.
Just that I can no longer use my favourite aluminium Happy Call Pan which I miss dearly. I heard there is an induction hob os some sort that can be used with all pans. That's the one to go for!
Happy Pan is great and so is induction hob. Between the two, I have to choose induction hob with heavy heart.

Ozak:

For teka, http://www.teka.com/products/index/10#!prettyPhoto

choose the induction and vitroceramic hob (1 each) and compare them, the list will come out after you click on compare products.

Look for the maximum connection rating(W) in the electrical connection section. you can see whats the maximum rating for induction, vitroceramic. In the technical specs manual by teka, u need to look for the nominal power (W) listed, not the power rate per zone.

However, I can give another example of vitroceramic and induction hob in another website.

http://www.mayer.sg/index.php/products/hob...ic-641-b-detail (Induction Hob)
http://www.mayer.sg/index.php/products/hob...c-641-db-detail (Vitroceramic Hob)

The induction hob states overall power of 7200W while the vitroceramic hob states 6600W

Atisha:

I've been using a 2 zone electric hob for a long time and I don't cook everyday, maybe 2-3 times a week and my electricity usage is pretty moderate for 2 pax (The bill never even exceeds 200 per month) If its for a family of 4 or 5 and need to cook 3-4 times a week, then the electricity bill may be about 400-500 per month on rough estimation? Induction hob have higher electrical power rating and the start up is slower than vitroceramic. Also, its safer than using gas because if you have old people living with you and they sometimes forget to turn off the gas, it can be a potential fire hazard in the long run.

BTW i thought induction and vitroceramic hobs fall under electric hob classification?

This post has been edited by S'aimer: Nov 19 2013, 01:10 PM

Induction with such watt are very powerful. Not sure if you have use induction before. I use a hob version, and now the external. I also use vitroceramic before. If both set at 1000watt, I finish cooking the same instant noodle on induction cooker, and the water on vitroceramic cooker only start boiling. Vitroceramic need time to heat the utensile, if cooking and transfer heat via radiant. Induction heats up almost instantaneously.

Vitroceramic can use many more difference utensile, Induction utensile are growing. I even see now clay pot for induction.

This post has been edited by weikee: Nov 19 2013, 02:04 PM

My Bosch induction hob requires 32A However this true if you enable the power boost function and all 3 zones which one do not do.

I have decided to use a 4mm wire with 20A switches.

Weikee: I've been using a vitroceramic hob mostly so cooking time is not slow for me if i set to the max heat on my hob. Induction on the other hand is more child friendly as it will not heat anything else other than induction based cookware which is a plus point and the minus point is induction hobs are more expensive than vitroceramic hobs. So my rationale is if both types uses electricity, then the cost factor is either a minus or plus point in my decision in choosing which hob type. In this aspect, there is no prize given to why I use vitroceramic the 2nd time round again.

However I have not cooked on an induction hob except for the ones used for steamboat outside I guess? The heat up time is almost similar though that's why I have the impression induction hob has a slightly slower cooking time but I am not really sure about the heat time 100%


This post has been edited by S'aimer: Nov 19 2013, 02:44 PM

Because the steamboat restaurant are using low power induction. Imagine all running 1000Watt, and the number of pots can go up to 100, and imagine everyone switch on and use, that is about 100,000 Watt. That shop can blow up. I seen one on the table with the watt rating, about 150watt only.

Is already study made by US gov Induction is 12% more saving compare to non induction electric hob.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induction_cooking

[According to the U.S. Department of Energy, the efficiency of energy transfer for an induction cooker is 84%, versus 74% for a smooth-top non-induction electrical unit, for an approximate 12% saving in energy for the same amount of heat transfer.]

That site doesn't tell me the save/efficiency or anything compare to induction. Which 1 boiling a water is faster using same power. Or the watt change to amount of joule (energy).

7.2kw or 6.6kw is consider high for me. If base on calculation bill running at 7.2kw alternate cooking for 1hr is already RM36/mth. (0.334sen)

If talk about your usage bill for 2person is consider high. That is RM100 perperson. My average usage for 2person is RM75. I m using induction cooker.

Ozak: That is including the usage of other electrical appliances. i.e; computer, fan, tv, microwave oven with convection function. I only mention that the electricity bill does not exceed 200 per month for 2 pax usage but never mention the actual bill figure.

On average, it is about 140-150 per month to be more precise and no change in the figures monthly either with either -/+ few dollars. I need to see how my new electricity bill will be like with my new hob and everything included when my new place is done with renovation.

Weikee:that's new to me. Usually I see energy efficient stickers on fridge,ovens and air cons but i've not really seen one that says an induction or vitroceramic hob is energy efficient unless my eyes have been looking elsewhere in the household appliance dept.

If I can remember, I never pay a bill over RM140. My bill hovering around RM65-RM75 for over 6yrs now. Yesterday get my bill RM40.80. Is the lowest in 6yrs. (It actually overcharge me in anggaran.) I m have all the appliances too. Even a server running 7/11.

I learn to buy electrical appliances that is save energy. Saving is always in my mind.

The efficiency is induction vs. Hotplate/vitro. They did many test. Electric hob is never energy saving, induction are more efficient when transfer/convert electric to heat.

Hotplate/Vitro is an indirect type of heat transfer. So some heat lost and efficiency is lower. They is also heat waste when you lift up your cooking ware and didn't switch OFF.

Induction is a direct heat transfer using your cooking ware. So no heat waste. Once you lift up your cooking ware, the hob is switch off and the conducting is off. That save the electricity somemore.

The main waste of heat is between the hob surface and the contact surface of the cooking ware. Another is the material that is not a good heat conductor. Example like claypot.

That is why a non direct heat transfer hob like hotplate, ceramic, infra etc never energy saving as good as induction.

Next year will be probably TNB increase the tariff rate. TNB can't bear anymore the subsidy of energy. Good luck for those looking for high power sucking hob. --> https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopic=3032372&hl=TNB

OMG tarrif rate increase next year What's next other than the changes to be implemented in 2014?

True vitroceramic is not that energy efficient compared to induction in the varying ways as Ozak has pointed out but however appliances are never truly turned off unless the plug is off itself.

Ultimately, its up to us to conserve electricity on our own properly.

12 years car to be scrap:)

What I mean turn OFF is for example, when you want to temporary lift up the cooking ware to do something. Than putting back to continue cook. This is very common practice in cooking. And you won't turn the hob OFF just because for a while only. But even a minute not to turn OFF a blazing at 3000watt of heat will cost you.

But for induction, once you lift up the cooking ware, the induction is OFF. That only left few watt to standby. Once you put back the cooking ware, the induction is continue. Without touching a single button.

Completely switch OFF is a good practice for any HOB.

I know what you mean That's why I agreed with you that vitroceramic is not energy saving in the same ways as induction is, ozak Just pointing out that conservation of electricity is up to us entirely.

Regardless of the pros & cons of the hob type, it's still a matter of preference, cost factors.

So to weikee and the others, for hobs 6000-7000W range, a 4mm wiring is prefered? I was thinking about the rewiring part as my hob will need 25AMP socket, then the closest would be 30AMP since the other AMP socket would be 20AMP but would it be an overload on the whole electricity load if I pull additional line? Please give advise as I am totally clueless in this?

You need 4mm or bigger. And a 45A 250V connection Unit. Not an ordinary socket. The hob wire is direct connect into the switch connector.

Example --> Schneider ZENcelo 45A DP Switch and 13A Switched Socket

For 7000 watt use 6mm or 4mm ring circuit. Only 4mm are running at threshold.

Ozak, if I'm looking at pieno switches, then do i look out for this?

E82T15D45N
45A 250V Double Pole Switch with Neon + 13A Switched Socket with Neon

Weikee and Ozak, would it be better if I used 6mm than 4mm for 6000W use? I intend to have the main kitchen in the new back extension at my place so there's no wiring at the backyard for now except in the original kitchen space which will be converted into a dining area.

Bigger the better. 6mm is good

Yup. That is the 1.

If you completely make new extension and wiring, It is best to use 1 10mm wiring to the kitchen. Put a DB box at the kitchen. Than distribute what ever 3pin socket or switch you want.

Rather tarik many many wire to the kitchen.

BTW you running 3phase right? If not you already drawing 60% of the single phase capacity.

Thank you weikee and ozak for advice. most appreciated.

weikee, house is not on 3 phase wiring as the house is an old house, should be on single phase I think? I wish tnb give discount on the 3 phase wiring cos I'm on a tight shoestring budget and can't afford to burst my set budget for reno alone

ozak, just to ask, if the back extension wall is already up but yet to do wiring, then does the wiring need to be concealed within the wall? The electrician has yet to come in because If my understanding goes like this from my dad, the electrician is not from my area. I'm not usually around to supervise the works so my dad does the supervision daily.



This post has been edited by S'aimer: Nov 20 2013, 08:30 PM

Great idea . Great idea applause

Why get such high power hob if you have tight budget? 6000watt is like 1/2 the single phase load. If you have few Ac switch on and water heater running + this hob isin max ppower. Your main fuse sure blow.

According to sales guy, the overall or maximum power of the hob is 6000W which means using all 4 cooking zones at the same time. However each zone has different power rate for heating. For eg, Heating Element 4Rings: 2 Rings Ø180mm 1.8kW, 2 Rings Ø145mm 1.2kW. That is my understanding that I may not necessarily utilize all 4 zones at the same time for cooking everyday either so the usage is not going to be 6000W if I'm only utilizing 2 cooking zones at a time? I seldom see people utilize all 4 rings on a gas hob as usually they would utilize min 2 rings when it comes to wok frying etc.

This post has been edited by S'aimer: Nov 20 2013, 11:39 PM

Hi Ozak, please advise how to add another DB box at kitchen? Is it possible? Cost?

Thanks

I believe you like to concealed the wiring rather expose it with trunking. The contractor just need to chisel the wall for the trunking.

This 1 you need to ask the electrician.

Of course it is possible to have another DB box in kitchen or anywhere.

For the cost, you have to do the calculation. Many wire running to the kitchen vs 1bigger wire + DB cost.

This post has been edited by ozak: Nov 21 2013, 11:56 AM

If you don't use 4 all the time, why buy 4 zone. Buy 3 or 2 zones better. There are hob that are wider even with 2 zones.

Like I mentioned before, cost, ergonomic design, brand are some of the factors in my purchasing decision.

Eg; a 2 zone hob is around 1k++ to 2k+ price range depending on the brand but the zones are spaced too closely for some types and cooking is harder with cookware side by side. I have 1 such type at my current place now. You seldom would see any people selling 2 zone hobs doing a demo on both zones at the same time?

For those with wider spacing. the cost is somewhere between 2.5k to 3k+ range. Same for induction hobs except the price is higher.

In any case, I already purchased my hob and I'd like to think my purchase is a decent buy for the selling price and the ergonomic design.


This post has been edited by S'aimer: Nov 21 2013, 12:18 PM

If the cost not much diff, I would rather choose to hav another DB box at kitchen, no need to hack...

Possible cheaper too. If the wire cost is different a lot. It is left the workmanship cost.

So, means that there will be one thicker wire run from the original DB box to the new DB box?
Or, else where shld the input for the new DB box? FYI, my house is using underground cables by TNB...

You need two thick wires for live and neutral, one earth, and use 4mm for earth to reduce the resistance.

weikee,

then, the 4mm wire sufficient for kitchen usage?

i am planning to hav:
1) one induction hob (2600W max)
2) Fridge
3) Microwave oven (small scale like 17 lt)
4) Electric oven (small scale also)
5) Exhaust fan, lighting (T5 x 2)
6) Washing machine.
7) Rice cooker
8) Slow cooker

Only one pair of 4mm, nope, better use at least 3 direct from fuse box, minimal 2.5mm is sufficient. Hob to be independent, the rest can evenly share out. Light & exhaust fan (unless you using industrial exhaust fan) are from another light mcb, not from the socket.

I was told by the electrician that a 2.5mm cable is sufficient up to 20amp while 4mm cable is up to 25amp..

A search on the Internet does say so: http://www.diynot.com/pages/el/el004.php

Should I go just for 2.5mm standard? He is charging RM 180 for 2.5mm and RM 380 for 4mm... I need to pull 3 of such wirings...

any good wireman/electrician that is good in service with good pricing around PJ area?

4mm rm380 is really cut throat, i think your wireman is trying to discourage you to use the 4mm.

most wireman hardly carry 4mm i guess. anyway cost of 2.5mm per meter length material is around rm1.80-2.00 while 4.0mm is rm3.2-3.5.

generally in concealed environment 2.5mm is rated for 15A and 4.00m is 25A.

says now I ask the electrician to use 4mm cable for both my hobs... As these two are adjacent, one in wet and one in dry... How do I know if he really pulls 2 wires to it?

Testing by using circuit breaker?

Yes, and hope he also pull two neutral.

One neutral for each hob? How do I know if he pulls 2?

Anyway, one MCB is for one set of wiring of which all connected devices are wired to this set of wire?

You won't know, have to trust him.

Yes, one MCB for one set, if you trip your MCB and 5 power socket got no power, that mean one MCB are loop to 5 power points.

Hi Weikee, btw, what do you mean by pulling two neutral actually? Are you saying one hob/oven point require two wires to the neutral point?

Every independent point need independent Live and Neutral. Ground can be share.

Then you two neutral points mean what? For both my hob?

I got another guy to quote.

He will use 4mm cable for live and neutral, while the earth is 2.5mm... Is this ok? Each point will be pull from DB and has one independent MCB.

Are you saying this neutral to be shared between the 2 hobs?

Neutral cannot be share, all have to be tap from the DB box.