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 Silver Investment Discussion, An alternative to Gold....

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TSXtraLeoGecko
post Feb 11 2014, 08:46 PM

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QUOTE(sylar111 @ Feb 11 2014, 07:14 PM)
Anyone knows how I can invest in silver or gold through EPF?
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Cannot-lah.... ah jib koh not allowed shakehead.gif
taurusbull
post Feb 11 2014, 09:02 PM

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QUOTE(royalben @ Feb 11 2014, 05:09 PM)
Dear Sifu,

Hope you guys can give some advice on liquidity of silver.
I am going for 1oz silver coins, but there many different type of coins, examples are, Scottsdale, Maple leaf, American Eagle, Chinese Panda.
Which of these are the most liquid base on your experience ?
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Please refer to the expert advice.
http://the-moneychanger.com/answers/ten_co...gold_and_silver

Buy Silver Round - Have coin features, no tax, low premium and many designs.

Liquidity is based on the lowest price you are willing to let go for the silver content, and not the designs when you want to sell them fast. If you have the time and patience, and if you are lucky to have a willing buyer for your type of bullion designs, just maybe you may not loose on the premium you paid for your higher premium coins.

This post has been edited by taurusbull: Feb 11 2014, 09:06 PM
TSXtraLeoGecko
post Feb 11 2014, 09:22 PM

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QUOTE(XtraLeoGecko @ Feb 10 2014, 01:47 PM)
I read this in Chinese Daily (Sin Chew) a column written by tax consultant. ... if I follow the decision tree, purchase silver bar directly from overseas should not attract GST..... rclxub.gif

Any GST experts here?
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Sorry ya... Forgot to attach the decision tree diagram earlier... kindly find the attached and comment.... Pls note this is from the weekly columnist of finance section of Sin Chew Daily... author is a director of a tax consultancy firm...
Attached Image
taurusbull
post Feb 11 2014, 09:24 PM

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SUSsylar111
post Feb 11 2014, 09:31 PM

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QUOTE(XtraLeoGecko @ Feb 11 2014, 08:46 PM)
Cannot-lah.... ah jib koh not allowed shakehead.gif
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Stupid. So that guy prefer me to invest in Mutual Funds and can go down anytime. Great.
Maybe putting your money over here would be safe.
PUBLIC AGGRESSIVE GROWTH FUND (Open For EPF and Cash)
taurusbull
post Feb 11 2014, 09:44 PM

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QUOTE(XtraLeoGecko @ Feb 11 2014, 09:22 PM)
Sorry ya... Forgot to attach the decision tree diagram earlier... kindly find the attached and comment.... Pls note this is from the weekly columnist of finance section of Sin Chew Daily... author is a director of a tax consultancy firm...
Attached Image
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Your version is based on interpretation of "consultant" from Government documents, and interpretation of layman on the derivative understanding of "consultant".

My version is based on the clauses 4 and 5 of the Custom GST "Draft" guide for Import, official government document. The premise is based on gold and silver will have GST based on the Custom reply letter to a vendor enquiry earlier.

You can click the link for attached custom document.
http://gst.customs.gov.my/en/rg/SiteAssets..._pdf/Import.pdf

You can have immediate answer. Since many buyers bought their silver from Singapore dealers, ask Singapore dealers whether they need to pay GST when they imported their ASE, Maples, Philharmonic and Panda before October 2012, when GST is still applicable to silver bullion.

This post has been edited by taurusbull: Feb 11 2014, 10:00 PM
hey_there
post Feb 12 2014, 12:36 AM

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QUOTE(sylar111 @ Feb 11 2014, 09:31 PM)
Stupid. So that guy prefer me to invest in Mutual Funds and can go down anytime. Great.
Maybe putting your money over here would be safe.
PUBLIC AGGRESSIVE GROWTH FUND (Open For EPF and Cash)
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Basically he just wants u to keep ur money in EPF and do not withdraw for the rest of ur working life.
GoldChan
post Feb 12 2014, 12:08 PM

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QUOTE(taurusbull @ Feb 11 2014, 10:07 AM)
FYI

If all imported goods are GST exempted, GST will collect less revenue tax than Sales and Service Tax. Our Malaysian government is desperate for money to lower the annual budget deficit, your assumption is not likely but impossible.

When GST is launch, only Sales and Service Tax will be replaced. Certain level of Import Tax will remain, yet to be disclosed.
http://gst.customs.gov.my/en/rg/SiteAssets..._pdf/Import.pdf
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just hope that the current 10% + 5% become 6%. Then business is bearable.
However for the 0% ===> 6% business may become unbearable.

Is it a one time off payment when we import like singapore ? or when I sell to customer I must also charge GST?

TSXtraLeoGecko
post Feb 12 2014, 08:47 PM

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QUOTE(GoldChan @ Feb 12 2014, 12:08 PM)
just hope that the current 10% + 5% become 6%. Then business is bearable.
However for the 0% ===> 6% business may become unbearable.

Is it a one time off payment when we import like singapore ? or when I sell to customer I must also charge GST?
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The below is more specific....

http://gst.customs.gov.my/en/rg/SiteAssets...er%20Scheme.pdf

But really need people who is well verse in tax to interpret correctly... rclxub.gif
taurusbull
post Feb 13 2014, 12:31 AM

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QUOTE(GoldChan @ Feb 12 2014, 12:08 PM)
just hope that the current 10% + 5% become 6%. Then business is bearable.
However for the 0% ===> 6% business may become unbearable.

Is it a one time off payment when we import like singapore ? or when I sell to customer I must also charge GST?
*
For Silver coins, the current taxes are 10% Sales Tax + 5% Import Tax.
We knows that GST is a replacement of Sales Tax and Service Tax, meaning the 10% Sales Tax is now replace with 6% GST. The remaining Import Tax of 5%, at this moment I can't answer you, but most likely it will remain unless there is a special provision.

For all other PM bullion (other than Silver Coins), previously doesn't incurred Sales and Import Tax, will have to pay 6% GST by April 2015.

Given the above scenario, the Silver Coin will incurred at least 4% lesser tax (10% Sales Tax - 6% GST), while all other PM bullion (Gold bullion and Silver Rounds/Bars) will incurred additional 6% GST.

GST is a consumption tax, meaning the GST tax will repeat everytime there is a legal sales transaction. GST (Good and Service Tax) is also known as VAT (Value Added Tax), and tax is actually based on the net Value Added by each stage in the production or distribution chain.

Example: Distributor imported an item that cost RM100, and he has to pay 6% GST that amounted to RM6. He sell to a retailer at RM110 and charged 6% GST on the sales amounted to RM6.60. The Output Tax of the sales is RM6.60, and Input Tax of the sales is RM6.00. The Net GST payable to Government by the Distributor/Importer is (Output Tax - Input Tax) = RM0.60. The retailer then sell the good to an investor at RM120 and charge 6%x RM120= RM7.20 GST. The net GST payable to Government by the retailer is Output Tax - Input Tax= RM7.20 - RM6.60 = RM1.00.

If you are a legal business entity, and if you falls under the categories that you are require by law to register with Custom for a license to collect GST, only then you are allow to collect GST on Custom behalf, compute the net GST (Output Tax - Input Tax) and paying to Custom.

I will leave you to interpret the impact of GST on importer, retailer and investor (end-user).
taurusbull
post Feb 13 2014, 12:46 AM

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QUOTE(XtraLeoGecko @ Feb 12 2014, 08:47 PM)
The below is more specific....

http://gst.customs.gov.my/en/rg/SiteAssets...er%20Scheme.pdf

But really need people who is well verse in tax to interpret correctly... rclxub.gif
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If you are in jewellery industry, and you are an importer importing unfinished raw material in Gold and Silver, and manufacture them into final end product of jewelleries, then your attached Custom draft document will be relevant. The document described the process of deferring GST payment upon importing raw material, reporting on GST upon production time and account them as Input Tax, Charge 6% GST to your customer as Output Tax, file and pay net GST (Output Tax - Input Tax) to custom. It applies to jewellers like Poh Kong, Wah Chan, Tomei and Habib.

We are importing finished gold and silver bullion, therefore the document you attached is irrelevant. The relevant Custom document is as per my earlier attachment.
http://gst.customs.gov.my/en/rg/SiteAssets..._pdf/Import.pdf

This post has been edited by taurusbull: Feb 13 2014, 12:53 AM
shahjaafar
post Feb 13 2014, 06:08 AM

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It seems lots of people are selling their silver today... Just to share, I had picked up 5 x 1oz 2014 Perth Lunar Horse for Rm 100 a piece. Also 15 x 1oz Silver Bars (Silvertowne, Morgan, APMEX and Sunshine) for RM 71 a piece. Also 8 x 1oz Fiji Taku, 7 x 1oz ASE, 8 x 1oz Maples and other 1oz rounds for RM 78 a piece. That's the haul.

Just wondering why the big sell off???
hey_there
post Feb 13 2014, 12:24 PM

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QUOTE(shahjaafar @ Feb 13 2014, 06:08 AM)
It seems lots of people are selling their silver today... Just to share, I had picked up 5 x 1oz 2014 Perth Lunar Horse for Rm 100 a piece.  Also 15 x 1oz Silver Bars (Silvertowne, Morgan, APMEX and Sunshine) for RM 71 a piece.  Also 8 x 1oz Fiji Taku, 7 x 1oz ASE, 8 x 1oz Maples and other 1oz rounds for RM 78 a piece.  That's the haul. 

Just wondering why the big sell off???
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Wow.. Where did u find those sellers?
shahjaafar
post Feb 13 2014, 01:25 PM

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QUOTE(hey_there @ Feb 13 2014, 12:24 PM)
Wow.. Where did u find those sellers?
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on the various facebook silver pages and internet... I saw lots of 1/2 oz lunar coins between RM 50 - RM 65 per coin... Interesting stuff... rclxub.gif
TSXtraLeoGecko
post Feb 13 2014, 10:05 PM

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QUOTE(shahjaafar @ Feb 13 2014, 01:25 PM)
on the various facebook silver pages and internet... I saw lots of 1/2 oz lunar coins between RM 50 - RM 65 per coin... Interesting stuff...  rclxub.gif
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Good, good... I oso want to join the group and sapu the lelong silver... drool.gif
hey_there
post Feb 14 2014, 12:09 AM

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QUOTE(XtraLeoGecko @ Feb 13 2014, 10:05 PM)
Good, good... I oso want to join the group and sapu the lelong silver... drool.gif
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Yea me too
hey_there
post Feb 14 2014, 05:46 PM

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y is silver rounds more expensive than bars? is it becoz of higher tax impose on rounds than silver?
TSXtraLeoGecko
post Feb 14 2014, 08:32 PM

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Guys, read this link.... be tripple careful when buy from secondary market. ... many fake items in circulation. ...

http://www.aliexpress.com/store/434131
soonming
post Feb 14 2014, 08:35 PM

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QUOTE(XtraLeoGecko @ Feb 14 2014, 08:32 PM)
Guys, read this link.... be tripple careful when buy from secondary market. ... many fake items in circulation. ...

What is meant by secondary market?
Buy from someone else other than dealer?
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/434131
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TSXtraLeoGecko
post Feb 14 2014, 08:51 PM

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Approaching 21/oz mad.gif

Should hv buy more earlier

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