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 Silver Investment Discussion, An alternative to Gold....

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TSXtraLeoGecko
post Nov 4 2013, 03:24 PM, updated 6y ago

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Dear all, noticed recently the Silver Investment Corner thread has gone missing.... I believe there are silver investors around here who would like to always share their findings & opinions on this interesting subject.... so let's get started! rclxms.gif
TSXtraLeoGecko
post Nov 4 2013, 03:26 PM

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Anyone has first hand buying experience from Nubex?

http://www.nubex.com.my/index.php

Thanks in advance for sharing notworthy.gif
TSXtraLeoGecko
post Nov 4 2013, 06:03 PM

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The spread of paper silver is quite huge comparing to paper gold.... therefore on paper for short term to medium term, paper gold is more favorable to trade....

However, how if we comparing the spread of physical gold VS physical silver?

TSXtraLeoGecko
post Nov 4 2013, 08:40 PM

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QUOTE(yrh0413 @ Nov 4 2013, 08:00 PM)
personally I started with silver, then converted all my silver maples to gold bullions and never look back.

that was when I am almost half way through my monster box (250oz).

No doubt the premiums for silver is HUGE, even in Singapore where I bought most of my metals from.
For silver maples alone, the premium is 14.37%... that means I need to sit and wait till my maples appreciate above 14% to breakeven.
In Malaysia silver premiums are even higher (over 20%) which makes it "worthless" to invest in physical silver.

In contrast, 1oz gold maple's premium is only 3.8%. 
XtraLeoGecko, the reason why silver's premium is on the high side is because local market do not have much demand and not many dealers bringing them in at large quantities. If you look at APMEX their silver prices are much more reasonable and their 100oz silver bars have similar premiums as 1oz gold bullion. I will only re-consider holding physical silver if the premiums drop to the same level as gold.
*
Thanks for this important sharing, really appreciate... This allow us to view physical silver investment in local context and also review the way moving forward... notworthy.gif

This post has been edited by XtraLeoGecko: Nov 4 2013, 08:46 PM
TSXtraLeoGecko
post Nov 4 2013, 09:31 PM

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Did some calculation:
4th Nov 21:18

Kitco 21.8 USD/oz
Silver spot as on BSM 70.7 RM/oz
Currency rate as on BSM 3.243 RM/USD
Maybank currency 3.137 TT (RM/USD)

10oz
Scottsdale 242.25 USD
Converted to RM based on Maybank TT rate 759.82 RM
Does not consider courier fees

Selling price
BSM 812.53 RM
Difference = +52.71 RM (compare to ordering of 1x10oz from Scottsdale directly)

Note: does not consider the shipping fees rclxub.gif

So.... if we are located at US or near to a place whereby silver mint are available... perhaps we do not need to pay such a big premium due to transportation + middle man costs..... blink.gif

Conclusion: Perhaps looks for reputable LOCAL mint ?! Is there any icon_question.gif
TSXtraLeoGecko
post Nov 4 2013, 09:37 PM

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SUISSE Mint - is this local mint?
TSXtraLeoGecko
post Nov 4 2013, 09:51 PM

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QUOTE(yrh0413 @ Nov 4 2013, 09:48 PM)
XtraLeoGecko, do take some time to think hard on this:

1. What is your exit strategy? Even if you have a large stack of silver bullion who will you sell them to? It is just like stacking palladium or platinum, yes you can easily find 1-ouncers but who will take them off your hands when you want to sell them? Don't forget transportation is a major problem if you have large quantities of silver.

2. Precious metals in physical form, will incur higher premiums when you buy in small denominations. Personally I think for silver 100oz should be the "right" balance on premiums vs price. 10oz silver bars definitely has very high premiums (12.3% in Singapore).

I personally know some metal dealers in Singapore... take Perth Mint as an example. Master dealers order their stuff from Perth Mint at spot + small premium... say 1 ton of silver. Smaller dealers get their stock from this Master dealer at a mark-up (the Master dealer still needs to eat right?). Small dealers then sell to other smaller dealers, or sell direct to consumers with even higher markups. Due to floating spot price the premiums tend to be quite high as the dealers need to hedge for any price fluctuations. In the end consumers like you and me end up paying 15-25% premium above spot.

If you look at large dealers like APMEX, they have the capacity and customer base to move their stock very quickly thus they can pass the savings to consumers. It is not about whether you stay next to the Mint or not... even if you stay next to US Mint you can't just walk in and get your silver eagles over the counter.
*
Ya, you nail the point -- it is always the exit strategy which worries me.... still not able to find a reasonable way for selling.....
TSXtraLeoGecko
post Nov 5 2013, 12:06 PM

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Hi all sifus,
I add in more comparison to see how much spread if i buy it over local seller (e.g. BSM) Vs from manufacturer (Scottsdale):

4th Nov 21:18

Kitco 21.8 USD/oz
Silver spot as on BSM 70.7 RM/oz
Currency rate as on BSM 3.243 RM/USD
Maybank currency 3.137 TT (RM/USD)

10oz
Scottsdale USD 242.25 RM 759.82 (Maybank TT)
Spot price USD 218 RM 683.757
% over spread (Scottsdale Vs Spot) 111%

BSM (RM/10oz), with delivery 812.53
% over spread (BSM Vs Spot) 119%
% over manufacturer (BSM Vs Scottsdale) 107%

It looks different now..... rclxub.gif rclxub.gif

Note: Not consider the courier price from Scottsdale to KL (which is quite significant)...

Summary:
Looks like Scottsdale has a 11% over spot;
BSM has a 7% over Scottsdale (not consider delivery cost if buy direct from Scottsdale);
BSM has 19% over spot
So, holding physical silver at this moment in Malaysia is relatively expensive.... would this cost be more favorable in future? I think this is the key to evaluate is it worth continue invest in physical silver..... blink.gif

This post has been edited by XtraLeoGecko: Nov 5 2013, 12:10 PM
TSXtraLeoGecko
post Nov 5 2013, 12:13 PM

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Dear all,
I am very happy and gratitude to all who has constructively shared facts and experience in this subject rclxms.gif ... and hope all continue to do so and discussed professionally and remove all the negative "chi shakehead.gif "....

notworthy.gif notworthy.gif notworthy.gif
TSXtraLeoGecko
post Nov 5 2013, 02:06 PM

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QUOTE(hey_there @ Nov 5 2013, 01:22 PM)
Yea, 5g gold is also in my wish list. Hehe. But as for now, I will only allocate <200/month for PM investment. Maybe I'll stop buying silver for 2 months and buy the 5g gold instead. I'm ok with the premiums as I expect to keep it for long for 10-20 years. My only concern is who to sell to? But think positively, u won't know what ppl's perception on silver after 10-20 years. The gold silver ratio is 1:60 now and if it is 1:20 (don't ask me why 20, just simply pick a number  tongue.gif ) ppl might hoard silver like gold too. If it really happens, it'll be easier to sell silver then.
*
I have similar thought. ... would trade paper gold but hold physical silver. .... as silver has more upside than gold in my investment horizon of 5-20 years. ... merely a diversification tool to hedge against inflation n paper money. ....
TSXtraLeoGecko
post Nov 5 2013, 06:08 PM

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QUOTE(hey_there @ Nov 5 2013, 04:33 PM)
I might want to stop paper gold and go for physical gold instead. The spreads are too wide for me. I will buy more to lower down my average cost and sell all either at break even price or small profit. Gonna buy 5g or 10g gold...  tongue.gif
*
Is it easier to sell for physical gold with better margin comparing to paper gold?

CIMB is having a selling/buying diff of ~4.3%. What are the reliable channel to sell for physical gold?
TSXtraLeoGecko
post Nov 6 2013, 08:14 PM

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QUOTE(hey_there @ Nov 6 2013, 06:00 PM)
maybe some of us might wanna buy 100oz from US dealer and sell it at lower premium over spot price. that might trigger a huge competitive price to local dealer and everyone starts selling closer to spot to be able to survive. or maybe we get 10 ppl to buy 10/oz each from international dealer. but do we trust each other?
*
Count me in ya....

Setup a company to import then split... just need to identify a few regular silver investor as director. . So blood won't b sucked by vampire....
TSXtraLeoGecko
post Nov 7 2013, 09:34 PM

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QUOTE(hey_there @ Nov 7 2013, 12:01 AM)
Do u mean the 1st method - import the silver and sell like any other local dealer or 2nd method - we share the 100oz and split the cost evenly?  biggrin.gif

There's no way I'm gonna sell u evenly with 1st method. Cos I gotta spend my time and pay my money first together the stocks. I have to earn smth. Just like any local dealers aka vampires.. Hehhe drool.gif
*
cry.gif cry.gif Ai...yo... so many vampires... becoming World War Z doh.gif

But seriously, 50 - 60 oz oredi >USD1,500.... can buy directly oredi.... Find some trustworthy kaki and can start importing direct....

The problem is more on what is the courier fees (or they actually send through sea freight?) from Mints / APMEX / etc... to KL?

Does it worth the hassle if we are accumulating slowly.....
TSXtraLeoGecko
post Nov 8 2013, 06:50 PM

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QUOTE(hey_there @ Nov 7 2013, 11:12 PM)
Want to become kaki or not? We share the 100oz la. With XtraLeoGecko.
*
Ya...ya... let's work out detail procedures, wait till spot hit 20/oz then we sapu 100oz together. ....
TSXtraLeoGecko
post Nov 8 2013, 11:10 PM

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Wah approaching 20/oz.... can shopping liao....
TSXtraLeoGecko
post Nov 8 2013, 11:19 PM

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Hi Seng_Kiat,
I keep all my receipt for each purchase whether from SS or BSM -- just like old generation who keep gold jewelry receipt which would be useful when sell back.... Is this practice really make sense?

Also, if we keep silver bar in original laminate or normal capsul, how long does it keep well without tarnish / milkspot issues?

Also, is it OK to keep all this bar inside sealable zip-lock bag?
TSXtraLeoGecko
post Nov 9 2013, 10:26 AM

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QUOTE(hey_there @ Nov 9 2013, 01:05 AM)
I tot u did quite a lot to prevent milk spot. Seems like it's unpreventable..
*
Just a stupid question: if collection coins or bars are subject to milk sports n tarnish over long periods of time. .... collection items would lost a bit value due to this unpreventable defects due to domestic storage conditions. ... does it make it higher risk to invest in collection items?
TSXtraLeoGecko
post Nov 10 2013, 08:42 PM

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Hi Seng_Kiat, wat coin do u recommend for buyer who want mainly for investment instead of collection? Which series n wat promotional u hv?

Remember ya, Lowyat forumer special discount. ..
TSXtraLeoGecko
post Nov 13 2013, 06:49 AM

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Yeh! USD20.7/oz now. ......
TSXtraLeoGecko
post Nov 13 2013, 07:27 PM

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QUOTE(hey_there @ Nov 13 2013, 02:43 PM)
i buy every month and i've bought this month's silver already. in fact, i bought on monday when the price was at 21.xx/oz. now, it's 20.xx/oz. can save about 0.90 per oz if i buy today instead. but nvm la.... it's still cheaper than what i paid for in august... biggrin.gif
*
If u buy today then next month no need to buy loh.... save 0.90/oz some more..... tongue.gif

Looking at latest news n trends, I think price will still down..... then will buy bit more..... drool.gif

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