So both coins and bars are affected? Any lubang as in where to buy in sg?

This post has been edited by hey_there: Jan 25 2014, 01:50 AM

This means if buy before April 2015 (is it the month of GST implementation?), will save 6% GST.....

Current spot 20/oz, next time would be 21.2/oz..... better accumulate this year then.....

Has to smuggle in from SG then ????

How about paper silver / gold -- GST tax too?

why need to smuggle? i can cross the border oso....provided ur item is not valued > USD10k.....

i posted a link b4.. google goldsilvercentral .....the shop is in chinatown, singapore.....

Chill guys. It is not tomorrow GST takes place. It is more than a year to go. . and I am pretty sure, we silver trader will try the best to offer best value to all investors as we are in the same shoe as you. .

1st of all, I hope that livina2011 didn't delete his/her posts.
it's a public forum, and there's no right or wrong views/opinions.
As a matter of fact, any contra view he has is actually very valuable.

Of course, granted this is silver investment forum, so naturally... the people here mostly will be pro silver.

Before I post, I just like to clarify my position.
I've gone through the Mike Maloney, etc etc on the fiat money issues. And I AGREE on their point.

As an investor, I'm someone who believes in maximizing my returns, and I'll be buying in bulk(larger qty where possible), every % counts, and I'll be speaking from someone who buys in kilobars. PAMP, 999, 1kg is what I have in mind now.

However, I have some reservations... and hope to share with you guys, to get some ideas. Or to share with others who's in my same position too.

My point with Silver is, the spread is just too big. The buying price for the above is about 19% above spot price. The selling price about 4% below spot. For a net loss of 23% from the start. Why is this important? As an investor, if you can consistently gain 10% per annum, that's really a holy grail already and is very hard to achieve (this is my target for investments, consistent 10% gain per annum, compounded over the years) so, to start off at -23% i'll need it to rise 33% to gain 10%. USD 20 > 30 then..

I know there's a lot of coin collectors here, and again, I'm being the devil's advocate here, is coin collecting actually worth it? If buy a few OZ here n there at >50% premium each, not much point right? Im even hesitating at the 23% premium, why would you guys buy at 50% premium? Silver needs to rise 50% to USD 30 before you break even, if sell for numismatic values that's really a hard sell too, cause you can see most coins are made in very very large batches... it's not really very rare. Maybe out of 10 coins, you strike one that is 'popular'
Even then, unless you buy A LOT, the return's not gonna be noticeable. If you buy A LOT the 50% premiums really gonna eat into any profit you might gain with the lemon coins, not all coins' numismatic value gonna appreciate.

So, why not gold then? The spread is just 6% if buy in 100g, or ~12% in 50g. Yes, its abt 7, and 14k each for PAMP bars, but again as an investor, we need to buy in sufficient MOQ to maximize our value of purchase.

Also, gold don't oxidize, and it's much more freely liquidable too.

Counter argument to this is, silver have industrial uses, and is a more practical to gold.
Apparently, silver is even more rare than gold.

What I wanted to know is, what's you guys' exit strategy really? At -24% premiums, there's gonna be more investment that's worth it right?

Gold, less premium, more liquid, smaller sizes.
Silver or gold mines. Easily can gain 50-100 or even 300% in PM bull run. Less premium from trading, easy liquidity.
Paper gold banks saving accounts. Liquid, low premium, as long as you can convert to physical before banks crash...

Of course each has its pro n cons... but overall, buying silver only as an investment strategy is not the best choice it seems, maybe as a small part in a bigger investment portfolio?

Just sharing my views as someone who've been thinking abt this topic for a while.

This post has been edited by moongsilver: Jan 27 2014, 07:28 PM

I 100% agree on ur points. But the reason I buy silver is to prepare myself if downfall of fiat currencies do happen. For short term gain on fiat currency, I have share or many other investments which gain me more than silver. If currency do collapse one day, all my fiat money will become worthless. Some might argue that it won't happen. I would say it's the same thing as arguing whether does god exist or not. Just better prepare myself.

Why silver not gold? I'm not sure about others but to me, silver is more affordable right now. Guess Everyone is hoping to buy smth less valuable and sell them at more valuable prices.

There's no exit strategy for me at the moment as I'll be keeping it for doomsday of fiat currency.

https://www.buysilvermalaysia.com/shop/prod...-Mint-RCM-100o/

Was thinking of buying 5~10 units of tha 100oz Silver bars.
But now I think again, should I buy it in a lump sump, or cost averaging?

Hi hey_there, the problem with affordability is null actually. If you can't buy 1oz of gold, you can buy 1g of gold for example.

For example, right now I can buy 4k of silver (~~1.5 kilobar) or I can buy 4k of gold. Abt 1oz.

If both rise similarly in % as gold n silver are tracking each other, ur 4k of silver gain and my 4k of gold gain is gonna be the same when we sell n convert to PAPER, assume we convert it back la...
Problem is, you'll take a bigger loss due to the premium. (or less gain) vs gold.

Put it this way, u buy 4k silver, i buy 4k gold.
Both goes up 30%

But silver premium is 20-50% depending on u buying kilobar or coins... your profit = 30%-20% = 10% or loss if ur premium is 50%
If buy gold, due to lower premium 30%-10% = 20%

This is what's holding me back.. logically why buy silver?

Unless the expectation is silver will outperform gold.
Will silver outperform gold then? Since you're taking higher risk... from the higher premium.



This post has been edited by moongsilver: Jan 28 2014, 03:08 PM

Actually, when I approached my vendor and told him abt my intention of buying silver, he did say why the buy sell spread is so high.

Silver usage in jewelry is minimal.

If they buy back, they'll only buy collect, accumulate large enough qty and sell to industrial use.
The demand for silver is just not high enough and they can't easily sell back.

Also, silver will oxidize unless properly kept... so there's another layer to that.
Once the silver is oxidize, they cant sell to other investors too.. not bling bling already.

This post has been edited by moongsilver: Jan 28 2014, 03:09 PM

I agree with u. This is the main reason why ppl here buy silver rather than gold. The question now is will silver outperform gold? No one knows. It's totally up to the investor and what they believe.

The definition of prescribed precious metals as defined under the GST Regulations refers to:

I) Gold which contains at least 99.5% in purity
II) silver which contains at least 99.9% in purity
III) platinum which contains 99% in purity

Now I confuse with the letter shown above stated that all pm subject to gst

This post has been edited by Curious Guy: Jan 28 2014, 07:52 PM

Hi Moongsilver, ur opinions are very much appreciated. This is a forum for discussion, as long as it is a healthy exchange of ideas / opinions, you are most welcome here, do continue to contribute and challenge the assumptions..... We need different opinions in order to have better perspectives.....

My comments to investing silver (with higher spread) VS investing gold --- I'm convince that silver will outperform gold in medium to long term. Based on historical data (silver-gold ratio), based on demands of industrial applications, as well as Warren Buffet is buying silver instead of gold too.....

http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidmarotta/2...your-portfolio/

http://www.theweek.co.uk/prosper/56316/inv...lercoaster-ride

http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2013...-portfolio.aspx

Exit strategy? 5 - 10 years from now.... Everyone in Malaysia has to pay the high spread for silver at this moment as market is not efficient. It is mainly caused by delivery costs from oversea even we buy direct from the mints. So, I buy high, I sell high for now......

Oxidation on silver -- only impacting numismatic coins (collection purpose), it would not affect the resale value (intrinsic value of silver bars are still the same even if oxidation). Actually some investors who bought from secondary market preferred tarnished silver bar as it proves that it is REAL silver.

Other sifus inputs are most welcome --- again let's have this forum a healthy & productive one!

This post has been edited by XtraLeoGecko: Jan 28 2014, 10:42 PM

Hi Curious Guy, could you post the link / reference on the GST regulations you came across?

Thanks in advance.

Wah dropping to 19.5 !!!!!

Accumulated a little at 19.5, expect FED policy oredi priced in at this price. Shot up to 19.9 before current 19.70...

But now fallen below 19.5 But now, BSM out of stock pula?!

This post has been edited by XtraLeoGecko: Jan 30 2014, 07:04 PM

Guys, dropping further below 19/oz drastically, standby.....

Most of the sellers: BSM, SS, MERLIP ...... all out of stock