Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Bump Topic Topic Closed RSS Feed
6 Pages « < 3 4 5 6 >Bottom

Outline · [ Standard ] · Linear+

 Honda Jazz 1.5 CKD, Official thread!

views
     
butthead
post Feb 26 2014, 09:22 PM

On my way
****
Senior Member
593 posts

Joined: Feb 2005
From: Highland, Texas
QUOTE(spectrex123 @ Feb 26 2014, 06:08 PM)
I just receive the notification letter that my installment start on the 17th march. I havent receive the car yet.
*
Better check with bank leh... not a problem to pay early la... but sked got hanky panky business going on behind only...
butthead
post Feb 28 2014, 12:06 PM

On my way
****
Senior Member
593 posts

Joined: Feb 2005
From: Highland, Texas
QUOTE(awongck @ Feb 28 2014, 11:38 AM)
Got my car yesterday guys. So far seems to be a quick zippy car, loving it smile.gif

Quick question, do we still need to break in the engine? I asked my SA and he said its not needed for fuel injected cars but for my 05 city i still kept it under 100km/h until the first 1K mileage.

Any advice?
*
if you are in no hurry... run in your engine properly lor... keep revs low for the first 1k... if you can, keep it tat way until 5k loh... better be safe than sorry ma.. it doesn't hurt to do it irregardless of what they say...
butthead
post Feb 28 2014, 05:00 PM

On my way
****
Senior Member
593 posts

Joined: Feb 2005
From: Highland, Texas
QUOTE(ReVolVolution @ Feb 28 2014, 03:37 PM)
there are always 2 school of thoughts.

1. to rev it like you stole the car
2. to keep the rev below 3k rpm

either way, it depends on which one you believe. tongue.gif

for me, I'd go for 2!
*
steal car must rev one meh??? so noisy... after people mar know...

i think a better example would be rev it like you are being chased by loan sharks with parang trying to chop you into 18 pieces...

This post has been edited by butthead: Feb 28 2014, 05:09 PM
butthead
post Feb 28 2014, 10:48 PM

On my way
****
Senior Member
593 posts

Joined: Feb 2005
From: Highland, Texas
QUOTE(Eithanius @ Feb 28 2014, 05:59 PM)
Well, my SA told me today when I go collect my car, before first service, try not to speed above 100kph...

I've driven 46km today, somehow I'm not used to the 5-speeder... I can hardly rev the engine to 3k rpm for pickup... But the car does feel a bit steadier in the sense that there are times I breached the 100kph mark, doesn't really feel fast...

I have to agree with farghmee when he says MyVi gear shift is smoother, my sister's MyVi is torquey, but at the expense of high rev...

[attachmentid=3872651]

One of the first pics...
*
100kph is useless if you plant the throttle into the floor mat in the gears leading to that speed... 100kph in 5th is only around 2150revs...

if you hardly see it rise above 3000 revs.. that means you most likely did not open more than 25% throttle... i remember even around 20% throttle it will shift around 2~2.5k revs....

i don't think the myvi's shift is what you actually call smoother... it is just that the 5 speeder shifts up and down a lot more actively making you feel that the autobox is like a bit jerky... sometimes, it is tough because when i expect it to kick down 1 gear, it doesn't.... sometimes i wish it would stay in that gear and then it kicks down due to the gradient sensor sensing it is going up an incline... sometimes you wish it will hold that gear longer and then it decides to shift up and then you depress the throttle to get the car to accelerate up to speed faster to compensate and it decides to drop a gear for you and the car surges forward a little faster than you want... it's pretty much got a mind of it's own...

if you drive one of those VW 7 speed DSG's, you will feel it is even more annoying especially in traffic..
butthead
post Feb 28 2014, 10:50 PM

On my way
****
Senior Member
593 posts

Joined: Feb 2005
From: Highland, Texas
QUOTE(awongck @ Feb 28 2014, 06:20 PM)
Lets just monitor it for now but I agree gear change seems to be a bit rough but I hope it becomes less noticeable as time goes on

Same here about 40KM so far, 80 when I head back home. Most likely will keep it under 100 or 3K RPM till after 1K like Butthead suggests
*
nah... it doesn't happen..

i even went as far as asking for a drain of the ATF and change it during the 2nd service to see if it's better but end up it's the same.... i used back Honda's DW1 ATF as they did not allow me to use the redline ATF that i brought along...
butthead
post Mar 1 2014, 10:02 PM

On my way
****
Senior Member
593 posts

Joined: Feb 2005
From: Highland, Texas
QUOTE(croomaniac @ Mar 1 2014, 07:02 PM)
talk about RPM, i wonder how many of you had tried to 'open' up your i-vtec?

or, what do you feel when the i-vtec is open up?

or, do you actually know how to i-vtec-ing your car?

icon_rolleyes.gif
*
Ivtec is variable valve timing la.. the cam timing is adjusted as you drive based on the throttle inputs... in terms of the valve lift it is based on the vtec point set in the ecu... you dont "open" it by choice... you jus need to floor it and once it gets to that point then the cam profiles will switch and you get a slight surge...
butthead
post Mar 2 2014, 03:27 PM

On my way
****
Senior Member
593 posts

Joined: Feb 2005
From: Highland, Texas
QUOTE(croomaniac @ Mar 2 2014, 09:35 AM)
thats what i thought as well.. but i think that this vtec thing will not just open up like that.. you'll have to ram your rpm to get the feel of it..

example 1:
You want to overtake a slow car.
You are in D.
Press throttle.
You managed to overtake the car.
Speedometer now: maybe 90/100 kmh
You feel slight edge.
But it was actually your car downshift the gear.
Then gear up again up to gear 5.
RPM is about 2.5 to 3

Question: Does the vtec kicks in?
Answer: I don't think so. Every auto car will actually behave the same. (correct me if i'm wrong)

example 2:
You want to overtake a slow car.
You are in D.
You downshift the gear to D3 manually.
Press the throttle.
RPM is up to 5 or more.
Speedometer now: Maybe 120kmh or more.
Then only you put to D.
Overtaking is easybeezy. Maybe you had just felt that 120PS.

Question: Does the vtec kicks in?
Answer: Hell yeah. Actually, i think the vtec kicks in at about 4.5 to 5. You can feel the famous 'vtec pull', but not that much. The gears and all are not meant for tracks or racing.

Well, that are based on my q&a with my 'Honda' friend. He owned a DC5. I've never been in his DC5 to feel the vtech kick in thing but my other friend had his. From his argument, normal D will not actually put your car to the fullest of its capability. To feel the vtec is actually to drive your Auto car, Manually. According to him as well, his sister's Civic FD vtec kicks in at around the same RPM. You can actually start from standstill using 1, then only change to 2 (anytime you like) after you felt the vtech urge, then D3 then only D after you 'satisfied'..

Pressing D will not open vtech meh? Yes, it will, eventually.. but your vtec is opened at gear 5 lah kot.. how bout other gears?  hmm.gif

As there are many readings (here and fb) saying that this car (read: engine) is underpowered.. well, what can i say? I can say that it is not underpowered, it was actually a case where you don't know yet how to drive (read: use) it.. to gain 100kmh quick is not that hard. You can do it in D3 mode je. I didn't do my own timing as yet, but records shown it took about 8 seconds to gain 100kmh? But you'll have to use the 'Manual' for this vtec thing to assist you.

If this vtec thing is in every gear in D mode, you'll surely visit the fuel pump regularly boss.. So, think twice before happily open your vtec everytime

Tried that, done that.  cool2.gif
*
i don't know where you are going to with this...

in terms of the vtec cam kick feel of the b16b, b18c, k20ar.... i can tell you it's not there whatever you do... the l15a7 is built to be a consumer engine... not an outright performance engine... else, it won't be outputting only a measly 120ps for a 1.5l...even the b16b 1.6lit had in excess of 160 horse on tap which is just a notch above 100 horse per liter...so, if you expect the feel of the performance engines...you'll be in for some heavy disappointments...

and the VTEC will engage in all the gears and not 5th alone... if you plant your pedal into the carpet from standstill... every gear will shift up around 6.5k revs.. it depends on your throttle inputs as i said before... this L series engine gives you the feel of a slight surge when the VTEC engages and not the feel of a kick like from it's big brothers... you just feel the power keeps going on rather smoothly rather than tapering off until it upshifts...even if it only engages in 5th, it's a bit rather pointless as you say it will be around 4.5 to 5k revs which means the car is most likely traveling above 160kph already and acceleration at that point upwards is dang slow.. i doubt you can feel anything at all... if there is anything to be felt at all... it's during the first and 2nd gear pulls.. even 3rd feels a bit weak already...

so, if it's a throttle problem... it is the same as any car.. if you floor a vios or a city / jazz all the time... it is going to be the same outcome which means more visits to your friendly local drinking hole...
butthead
post Mar 2 2014, 03:33 PM

On my way
****
Senior Member
593 posts

Joined: Feb 2005
From: Highland, Texas
QUOTE(tinybee @ Mar 1 2014, 11:44 PM)
Will it scream though?
*
depends on what you are expecting...

but, i'll have to say no to that...it's loud.. but it's nowhere near what you expect most probably...
butthead
post Mar 2 2014, 03:38 PM

On my way
****
Senior Member
593 posts

Joined: Feb 2005
From: Highland, Texas
QUOTE(Eterman @ Mar 2 2014, 10:57 AM)
some articles i read on net states that jazz engine's ivtec doesn't have vtc, almost similar to previous vtec engine? so which ivtec engines have vtc ?
*
if there is no VTC on i-vtec... why call it intelligent-vtec in the first place...

the timing control is the essential part of a revolution which is why Honda decided to have a new name for it instead of their older VTEC naming....the variable valve timing is there to help optimize flow into the combustion at lower rev ranges to maximize power output at all rev ranges where the design of VTEC did not really take care of...
butthead
post Mar 2 2014, 09:40 PM

On my way
****
Senior Member
593 posts

Joined: Feb 2005
From: Highland, Texas
QUOTE(Eterman @ Mar 2 2014, 05:25 PM)
i read it from here http://asia.vtec.net/Reviews/4GCityPrev/index.htm . Although it is honda city, the engine is the same L15A i-vtec.

a paragraph excerpts :

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


so, L-series and R-series doesn't have VTC.  hmm.gif

not sure how true it is though, maybe someone can shed some light on this.
*
yes, my bad on that... i forgotten that single cam design cannot possibly incorporate variable valve timing technology into it as the single camshaft is responsible for handling both the intake and exhaust valves which means the L and R series used on the new CRV, and City with sohc design does not have vtc functionalities you are right on that one...

on the K series however they do incorporate VTEC with VTC together as the K series engines are usually DOHC.. it is only whether the VTC exists in only the exhaust side or on both the intake and exhaust side...

i think this better addresses what you saw
http://asia.vtec.net/Engines/R18A/

KN Wong didn't write up much on the L15A7.. but in theory it's all based on the single cam limitation on VTC... they could find ways to make VTEC available on both intake and exhaust through some ingenious rocker arm designs....but i think VTC is a much more complicated problem to solve...

This post has been edited by butthead: Mar 2 2014, 09:42 PM
butthead
post Mar 2 2014, 10:00 PM

On my way
****
Senior Member
593 posts

Joined: Feb 2005
From: Highland, Texas
QUOTE(croomaniac @ Mar 2 2014, 09:09 PM)
I'm coming from this:



2012 Honda Fit Manual i-VTEC Highway Pull

And i've tried pedal to the metal from D, it'll actually shift at about 3.5k rpm max.. Well, its are all maybe and this vtec thing is very new to me though.. still gathering inputs..
*
all autoboxes will kickdown when

1) the kickdown switch is activated, it's usually a physical switch at the very end of the pedal throw that is activated when the pedal is planted down firmly
2) a preset amount of throttle input is detected

with the current Honda's that run DBW throttles... i am not that sure if there is anymore kickdown switches to tell the TCU to kickdown a couple of gears to accelerate but rather use throttle input levels to tell the TCU to downshift for higher acceleration rate...it has nothing to do with the VTEC functions....and that is which what your video shows... you get it whether you are in an autoboxed nissan, toyota or suzuki for that matter...

as for why your flat out run shifts at 3.5k max... beats me... i have never seen one that has such a low shift point with WOT...



here is where i think you can get a good feel of how an on cam / cam activation will sound like... this is easier to identify because the driver accelerated in a higher gear where the rev climbs slower compared to 1st and 2nd gear pulls and you can identify the change in sound more easily...you can hear a slight change of sound when the revs climbs past 5.6k ~ 5.8k revs and the cam profile switches...

if you are looking for this sort of feel in a normal VTEC made for general family cars.. i gotta be frank with you that you should just give up and forget about it or deal with the massive dissapointments... it doesn't give you this sort of sound or feel...
butthead
post Mar 3 2014, 09:59 AM

On my way
****
Senior Member
593 posts

Joined: Feb 2005
From: Highland, Texas
QUOTE(farghmee @ Mar 3 2014, 09:44 AM)
for me, it's the feeling of gear-changing that is jerking, not of gear-hunting.
i would rate the gear-changing jerkiness is lesser that of auto gen2 1.6L HL, but higher than that of auto myvi 1.3L premium.
*
i've driven the myvi before... at different conditions the shift quality differs... at it's worst... i do feel that the myvi is more or less the same as the jazz...

when i posted that statement... i did not meant to refer to gear hunting issue specifically but rather if you take into account of how the TCU on the jazz behaves and the availability of it's ratios compared to the myvi... the way the TCU tries to upshift whenever possible especially at low speed low throttle condition causes the occupants to feel a certain jerkiness to it when it upshifts...and it doesn't help that while costing in the highest gear possible under light loads that it drops a gear or two in some instances when more throttle is fed...

if you run the car with more throttle and get it to shift at a higher point... the jerkiness is not felt that much... although it's a matter of fine tuning how it shifts... but this is no Lexus by all means... so, it's not really something to niggle on for a sub 80k car...

on the myvi... it only has 4 ratios to go around meaning the shifts have to be spread more sparsely and shift point are generally a little more higher...
butthead
post Mar 3 2014, 10:58 AM

On my way
****
Senior Member
593 posts

Joined: Feb 2005
From: Highland, Texas
QUOTE(farghmee @ Mar 3 2014, 10:32 AM)
ok, i got it..or perhaps u can correct me:

our auto jazz has 5gears, while auto myvi has 4gears.

say to achieve 0 to 40km/h in normal manner,
jazz may shift 2gears, while myvi only 1gear.
the jerkiness in jazz is due to these 2gears.

is my understanding right?
*
partly...

for what i have driven before... i do feel the myvi drags a gear for a tad more longer.. if it shifts at lower revs it might have the same issues....

on another note, not quite directly related... i mean that the frequency of the box slugging in between gears makes you feel it more frequently.. maybe that impairs your perception on how the box shifts...
butthead
post Mar 3 2014, 04:21 PM

On my way
****
Senior Member
593 posts

Joined: Feb 2005
From: Highland, Texas
QUOTE(awongck @ Mar 3 2014, 04:01 PM)
Yup totally agree with you, after 4 days of driving my baby seems that the gear change is not as smooth as my CVT City. Kinda miss the smooth gear transition sad.gif

But the car overall is a great drive, good on corners and quite stable. Guess will have to force myself to get used to the gear changes.

Heard from my SA that the new Jazz will come with CVT, oh well too bad.
*
CVT has no gears... in fact... it has infinite gears hence you feel a seamless rubber band like feeling to it as it doesn't shift physically between gear to gear like normal manual, DSG or torque converter autoboxes does....

it does have it's good and bad however like all other things... and you can't just change it with normal ATF like what most of the first gen jazz and city owners did outside of honda SC and then had their CVT box wrecked because of negligence..
butthead
post Mar 3 2014, 05:09 PM

On my way
****
Senior Member
593 posts

Joined: Feb 2005
From: Highland, Texas
better be safe than sorry....
butthead
post Mar 4 2014, 09:29 AM

On my way
****
Senior Member
593 posts

Joined: Feb 2005
From: Highland, Texas
QUOTE(farghmee @ Mar 4 2014, 09:18 AM)
that was KL-PJ peak hour crawling jam  blush.gif

maybe u can try a hybrid then..
*
Hybrid might do 5.5l~7l/100km depending on how bad the crawl is.... you just might have to endure being in a sauna though if the day happens to be very hard... else, the FC is just as bad if you keep it in "S"....
butthead
post Mar 5 2014, 08:20 PM

On my way
****
Senior Member
593 posts

Joined: Feb 2005
From: Highland, Texas
QUOTE(farghmee @ Mar 5 2014, 06:21 PM)
1stime click enuf bro.

Sharing is Caring  rclxms.gif
*
maciam the singaporeans... goyang goyang goyang.... pump somemore.. then goyang somemore.. then pump somemore...dun see the petrol overflow out they won't be satisfied..
butthead
post Mar 5 2014, 08:26 PM

On my way
****
Senior Member
593 posts

Joined: Feb 2005
From: Highland, Texas
QUOTE(iceviper @ Mar 5 2014, 07:13 PM)
Hi, just need some advice, shall I choose jazz p or hybrid? Hard to choose.
*
either one is also OK...

price wise, i won't talk about it...

generally, hybrid will save petrol in most conditions but you have to deal with the engine start stop system shutting the air cond compressor down when your engine stops as your car comes to a halt...on long jams.. you might start feeling the air cond not doing it's job as the compressor stopped for too long... and if you find ways to override the start stop functions.. you don't save as much fuel...

then there is the question of replacing the batteries sometime down the road as the battery like any other rechargeable batteries will start deteriorating and lose charge capacity after years of usage...

hybrid also gives you a 3 year free service (parts and labor) compared to petrol's first 3 service only...feature wise, not much difference except a cooler box in passenger side (not very sure with ckd model), paddle shift, digital aircond and i think nothing else...

petrol variation is the most straight forward at the expense of petrol consumption compared to the hybrid... it also gains a rear disc brake (i doubt it does much for many people, but cosmetically it looks nicer), more bootspace, a spare wheel.. and i think that is practically it....and oh yeah.. a whole 15k cheaper if no discounts is taken into considerations...

This post has been edited by butthead: Mar 5 2014, 08:31 PM
butthead
post Mar 6 2014, 12:44 PM

On my way
****
Senior Member
593 posts

Joined: Feb 2005
From: Highland, Texas
QUOTE(awongck @ Mar 6 2014, 12:33 PM)
Lol, confirm not Singkie style bro, I'm from JB so I dont really like em (but thats another story)

Usually after click then I pump a little bit more. Like yesterday after click was RM68 for full tank then pump RM2 more for even amount

My range indicator says can hit 650KM but I think its unlikely, if can hit 500KM then I'm happy enough
*
my RM40 can't even hit 200km, usually only manage between 170~180km... stuck in constant jam... 10K to office takes 30mins type of jam...

but if your range indicator shows 650k after rolling a few KMs.. then it's a good sign... i pump RM40 after rolling a few K... terus show me less than 250KM...
butthead
post Mar 6 2014, 12:45 PM

On my way
****
Senior Member
593 posts

Joined: Feb 2005
From: Highland, Texas
QUOTE(supersound @ Mar 6 2014, 12:42 PM)
Jazz CKD are quite pathetic compare to Myvi 1.3. Power delivery very poor. But FC not bad.
*
hah... FC not bad?

6 Pages « < 3 4 5 6 >Top
Topic ClosedOptions
 

Change to:
| Lo-Fi Version
0.0618sec    0.29    7 queries    GZIP Disabled
Time is now: 11th December 2025 - 09:43 PM