Dear all,

I am on a crossroad in between choosing a postgraduate studies (masters) in either
a) coursework
b) by research

A little bit about me:
- do not have a family yet
- full-time working in a university (lecturing and tutoring) - a total of 22 hours per week
- if I were to take Master by Research- I do not have to pay as I will be taking it from my uni (in return, I have to be bonded with my uni)
- if I were to take Master by Coursework- I have to pay at least RM20k (uni not funding any coursework degree)

I have been reading around this forum, and I've seen forumers stating that postgraduate by research holds lot of uncertainties.

I am very new in research as I've not done any research before even in my undergraduate.

What's your advise?

Should I go for masters by research or coursework?

People have told me to listen to my heart and what I really wanted. And the reason I am here is because, there's just so many things in my mind, that I can't decide properly.

This post has been edited by mycolumn: Aug 28 2013, 04:54 PM

Go for research if you intended to do phd after master..


Gomen got scholarship for both research and coursework, myBrain 15..pay only tuition fees..

If I do not have intention for PhD after master, should I still go for research?

An old post I made regarding this topic:

https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...post&p=60779762

This post has been edited by jonoave: Aug 28 2013, 09:22 PM

thanks

Master by research have no fix time frame on when you can graduate, it depend on the outcome of the research and also depend whether the examiners accept your research outcome or not. You have to give quite a numbers of presentations to your examiner to assess your research outcome and finally you have to pass your thesis/dissertation.


Dangers of master by research:

- Fail to obtain proper research outcome due to poor supervisor or poor facilities of the university.

- Unable to pass presentation due to lack of presentation skills of the candidate or unprofessional examiner who have no experience on that field (very common, therefore candidate need to have good presentation skill to avoid misunderstood).

- Fail to maintain a good relationship with the supervisor (or bad supervisor that impossible to communicate), and finally stop study. Change supervisor is also possible but may need to start everything all over again.

is it possible for coursework postgraduate's student to obtain PhD ?

It is possible to go from Master (taught course) into Phd (research).

Or do you mean is there Phd by taught course? I am not sure but I have yet to hear it being available in Malaysia.



In regards to TS's question,

If you want to get your master quick and do not intend to further into PhD, I strongly suggest taught course.

Benefits: save time (just follow syllabus) and still able to further into Phd.

Cons 1: No exposure to the research environment which is crucial for academic career especially when you plan to further into PhD.

Cons 2: You need to pay more compared to by research. However,if you can afford it, this sum is worth every penny as master by research has a lot of uncertainties. Better be safe than sorry.

I'm a bit annoyed with the general obsession to take the shortest time. Doing things faster isn't necessarily better.

A Master's degree is a Master's degree.

Applying for PhD requires Masters, or some places might accept a first-class bachelors.
In PhD, you need to come upt with a doctoral thesis, which is like your final-year project in Bsc. Did you jump into your Bsc with your final-year project straightaway? No right?

You will spend the initial months or even first year mostly learning and bit of trial and error. If you obtained a Master's degree by coursework, then the learning curve is even bigger as you lack even more research skills and background. This is espeically true in the scientific field.

if social science, then maybe a Master by coursework or research doesn't make a big difference.

As far as I know, there is no such thing as PhD by courswork. A requirment for receiving a PhD is to produce a doctoral thesis, i.e. a research project.

Sure you can take courses, but those are just complimentary for your research project or other skills.

Because of that, I'd say you'd be better off doing Master by Coursework

If you do a Master by Research, you will face a lot of hardships and sleepless nights.

One can always learn research methods and research skills by writing academic papers, not necessarily by doing a Master by Research.

Before you extrapolate from the wisdom of crowds in this forum, could you tell us what real reasons you choose to get a Master's degree are?

(1) For the pursuit of knowledge
(2) For the prerequisite to becoming a college professor
(3) For future professional opportunities
(4) For fear of “the real world”
(5) For an ego boost

or what else?

If TS just wants a quick Master degree to advance a career outside academia, then yes.

But if he/she intends to pursue PhD or a research career, I disagree with your opinion. Making the leap into research at PhD level is quite difficult without a research background, and even more so as TS don't have research background even at degree level.

Sue he/she can learn by himself, but then he'll also spend more time at the initial stage just learning. So while he might save time at the Master coursework level, he will still have to spend more time at PhD level to figure things out.

I personally went for MSc by coursework due to time factor. Took me 1 1/2 years to complete it. Whereas for research I think it requires min of 2 years. I've seen some of my friends extended their master research up to 4 years. Dislike such uncertainties. I was in the teaching line as well btw.

And I do intend to pursue my PhD. In fact, I left my full time job and went for it last year-but it didn't worked out due to some issues with my supervisor.

For social sciences, Master by coursework or research gap is quite different too. For those going from master by coursework to PhD, they do lack research skills in terms of methodologies, theoretical frameworks and etc. hmm

yea, actually i have thought about this alot. It's either MSc by coursework or research. About the time factor, I am lecturing full time, so by coursework or by research time to complete will almost be the same for me. But the only thing is that, there are plenty of uncertainties when it comes to research like for example: enrolment form getting delayed, candidacy delayed, the whole paper work process delayed (based on experience from other post graduate students from my university), and that is why I am a little reluctant.

and about supervisors, those who can work well with supervisors are really very blessed. My research with my previous supervisor did not work out well too. Finally, the research came to a dead end. And now, I have another new supervisor. And he is quite hard to handle too. The pressure is literally building up. He loves to say "You do not have a choice!!" And this is the 2nd reason I do not want to start pursuing master.

the real reasons that motivates me to pursue a master's degree is to earn the degree for personal satisfaction, career advancement, and ensure the continuous survival in the academic place. And somewhere in between all that, for the pursuit of knowledge too.

ego boost is not my thing lols, so yeah, those are the reasons.

Thanks jonoave, your posts are insightful. Yes, I would love to advance my career in academia, and has always been reminded by my dean, if you wanna be in academia, universities worldwide are competitive, hence knowing how to do research is alot better.

The thing is, I think I'm lack of determination, perseverance, commitment....since I am having problem of juggling between my full time job and studying.

This post has been edited by mycolumn: Aug 30 2013, 10:40 PM

If you want to pursue on academia, one thing you can consider is the fast-track Masters to PhD, i.e. Masters (1 year) then PhD.

This kind of program usually revolves around the same project, so you can cut down on the learning time in PhD since you already spend some time in Masters. This is different than the regular kind where the Masters and PhD is usually separate programs and unless you're lucky to get the same supervisor where you might get to continue the same project.

I've not seen this kind of Master programs being offered in local unis, but they're quite popular in UK. But of course, I'm not sure how heavy this kind of fast-track Masters program is, and whether it is possible to do it on a part-time basis.

Edit: Also to add a bit more, some unis (like UKM) offers a chance to convert your Masters to PhD. Before the end of the third semester, you can apply to convert. Then you will need to do a presentation before a panel, and what extra additions/research you will carry out to qualify it as "PhD level research". As well as your current progress and grades by the third sem (you'll need 3.5 at least IIRC).

The goodside is you can save time. The downside is that if you mess up, there is no going back and you cannot downgrade it back to Masters to get a Masters degree since you're now enrolled in a PhD program.

This post has been edited by jonoave: Aug 30 2013, 11:04 PM

(1) What kind of determination is that determination?

(2) What kind of perseverance is that perseverance?

(3) What kind of commitment is that commitment?

Are your motivations working well to counter your lacking of determination, perseverance, commitment?

I feel so sorry for you. Could you tell your story a bit more for us? Perhaps there is something we [the wisdom of crowds] can cooperate to find the way forward. With our cognitive diversity, we will encourage a greater exchange of ideas. Just keep your past supervisor's name anonymous!

no need..dont waste your time and money..unless you are interested to become academician...the values between research and coursewrok are significantly different

the key of getting success in postgraduate is your supervisor,,therefore, chose supervisor wisely..make sure there is not conflict of interest..

another thing is money and do not necessary the equipment..most supervisor has research grant to support..if no equipment in uni..u may use the money to rent equip from industry or other uni

Hi TS, I've been reading lots of response from fellow forummers and would like to contribute relevant insights:

You're offered by doing Masters by research
my question -
1) how many years will you bond to uni?
2)you're in science or social science field?

It would be great fund by uni as you do not have to worry about financial. As a student masters by research (me), I've seen and learnt from my friends that you have to:
1)follow the time frame -
each semester has standard or indicator to achieve, make yourself follow the timeline.

2)independence study -
you do what you wanna do, total freedom.

3)sleepless night? -
I think degree life used to made my day turned upside down and turned me into living owl lol.

4) extend your study issue -
if you don't follow the timeline or your own schedule, well, you'll know where you'll end up at. Make a gant chart of your own study and always stick to it.

5) make your supervisor as your bestfriend-
you'll be treated as a friend or a guest-alike when you have a good manner towards uni staff and lecturer. Always be thoughtful, like wish your supervisor's on special days like CNY, holiday or birthday.

It's actually not that hard to do a proposal or to complete a theses, you'll be learning a lot stuff and have great in-depth of your research problem. You'll not learning if you never commit mistakes. Mistakes make you mature over time. You'll spend your time reading more facts and reliable sources of figures and so forth.
The beauty of research is, you only do one thing at one time.

You know that by conducting research, you actually will contribute a great insight to improve societies' lives. To measure your research or keep on track with research, always try to publish the progress of your work. It could be from your LR (publish as content analysis paper), from pilot study etc.

As long as you're on track of time doing your research, it's OK.
If you ask me why I vote for research mode, my answer : suka hati saya mau tulis apa dalam research saya la! itu saya punya hasil!!!!!!! leulz

As for coursework - you'll have to pay the fees from your pocket. hm.
You'll able to grad on time, just follow the syllabus. And, complete a dissertation.
Like degree, but higher passing marks and strict marking scheme lol.

What I meant was is it possible to continue my study to PhD (research) if I'm a postgraduate master by thought course..

If you read my replies carefully, I already said you can: "A masters' degree is a master's degree, though the learning curve will be even bigger for you".

One more things to note: most universities/groups will favour students who have some research background. Most applications for graduate studies require students to fill in a "research skills/experience section". This could be something to consider depending on your uni of choice.

Yes. It is possible.

In Malaysia, are large corporations expected to give something back to their communities in the form of charitable projects?

Since CSR is your area of study and research, has CSR become an important consideration for managers at all levels in Malaysia?

long story short..."blackmail"

Hi, to answer your questions:

I will be bonded to my uni for 3 years maximum. And I'm in the social sciences field. It's good to know that your relationship with your supervisor is good. My main supervisor is chasing his own KPI and dun care about my research well-being. Luckily, my co-supervisor is really understanding

Yups, CSR has become one of the significant factor for investors to make an investment decision. If a company did not care about the impact of its operations on the society and environment, this will affect the corporate reputation. Also, CSR now is more like a PR tool used by companies to show that they care for us, the society (giving scholarships, treating employees nicely, produce good quality products, keep the environment clean and plenty more).

but if you say for managers of all levels...then I'm not too sure. According to some research, government-linked companies will do more CSR than private companies. So, these managers still will have different priorities.

to answer your first question:
not only large corporations are expected to give something back to the communities, even small corporations are also encouraged to do so. Recently, Bursa Malaysia stated that it is mandatory for all listed companies to report their CSR activities. Charitable projects or not, it is up to the company. CSR has alot of branches (community, environment, human resource, etc) so some company might be good at one, and the other company might be good at another.

This post has been edited by mycolumn: Sep 2 2013, 10:17 PM

haha...hmmm

1) determination to do my research everyday, to keep on reading and reading, collecting data. Can't afford to take time so loosely anymore.

2) persevere like for e.g. wrote a paper, send in for review, it came back with alot of comments and corrections. Especially from supervisor, then have to keep on rewriting, re-researching,

or another is, when my working/teaching hours is really over the roof, like this semester, i still also have to find time to do my readings though I'm tired as zzzz. I've been standing all day long in classes for lectures and tutorials, and when I got back home, I still have to look at my laptop and start reading and typing

3) commitment....I can't afford to quit it halfway right? So, I have to be committed till the end.

Well, TS, based on your replies, I think you've made up your mind.

You prefer to do Masters by coursework.

So, does your financial is an issue?


BTW, bond with uni for 3 years is quite a short period.

Oh no la. I've made up my mind to do Masters by research. I've actually done my proposal and submitted it. And I've also already enrolled. I will be starting everything this December.

But one thing though, I really want to ask this to many people, but I'm afraid of asking the wrong person in my uni. How do you handle your supervisor? This is the very real reason behind why I'm afraid to take Masters by research.

Based on your reply, you said "If you ask me why I vote for research mode, my answer : suka hati saya mau tulis apa dalam research saya la! itu saya punya hasil!!!!!!! leulz "

I used to think like this bah Leah. Suka hati I wanna collect my data la. All my data are available in annual reports, bagi I use secondary data collection la. Tak perlu susah susah apply ethics, interview, survey...(buang masa). And my supervisor 2 agreed with me.


But now I got 2 different supervisors.

Supervisor 1 (not from my area): told me to do things that are out of my hand. And very possibly, my research will be dragged and delayed due to this method.

Supervisor 2 (the one who provided me with the ideas for my topic, has PhD in the area I'm researching on):- told me that it is not needed to do things that my Supervisor 1 said. And has told me to stick with secondary data collection.


And for myself, for my data collection, I really would prefer what my supervisor 2 told me to do.

I memang tak pandai wanna handle my supervisor 1. So any advise?

Between the two, who is your main supervisor?

I know one of my colleague who has problems with his main supervisor. His research plans were well accepted by co-supervisors and other lecturers but not his main supervisor. His main supervisor wants the research to be in his(sv) direction.. While he defended his work, the relationship seemed somewhat strained. It is really a dilemma.

This post has been edited by alanchong88: Sep 3 2013, 10:41 PM

(1) Know your Supervisor’s work ethic
--------------------------------------------
Are they good at getting things accomplished, or are they procrastinators? Check out their offices too. Are they messy with cluttered desks, or are they organized? If any of your supervisors have papers scattered all over the desk and floor, your dissertation proposal will soon be one of the scattered papers mixed in with the rest. Waiting months for your supervisor to read your manuscripts and provide feedback just so you can revise and submit them for publication is another example of how not to get your PhD.

(2) Find out what your Supervisor’s philosophy is
--------------------------------------------
This may be the most important thing you find out about your supervisor, as it can make or break your working relationship. Here are some questions you should ask:

• How do you see your role as an supervisor?
• How much control do you keep, and how much do you give to your students?
• Do you micromanage your students or do you leave them alone to do their own work?
• Where do you stand on authorship for publications?
• How do you measure your students’ success?
• How much time do you devote to giving feedback?
• Do you set deadlines for your students and for yourself?

Ask your supervisor to go to lunch and get as many answers to the above questions as you can. This meeting will also give you the opportunity to catch a glimpse of his or her personality.

Last word: It's wise not to become attached to your supervisor. If your supervisor does not cooperate and this lack of cooperation delays your progress or retards your professional development, you have the right to move forward by seeking help from other faculty members and even choosing a different supervisor. One of the the best way to learn about your supervisor is to talk to some of the said supervisor’s current doctoral students.

Supervisor 1 is my main supervisor. My co-supervisor (supervisor 2) agrees to my research method, my colleagues too. Only my main sv has different opinion as my main sv wants my research method to be according to his/her direction. Thats why kinda difficult.

As leah says above, "this is my research, i do whatever i can". In my case, it is not that easy as there are 2 differing views from my supervisory team. And also, im afraid the relationship will turn sour...so i just kept quiet about it.

I used to have diff/contradict ideas between 2 supervisors.
How I handle it:
1) If possible, set meeting with both supervisors at same time and same place.
2) If not, ask supervisor 1 to give his/her feedback and opinion to supervisor 2.
3) Supervisor 2 seems flexible, maybe he/she can persuade or talk to supervisor 1.
4) Usually, supervisor 2 provides good materials / readings/ideas. Use these strength to build your LR and write ups.
5)So, regarding method, you may refer to supervisor 1. HOWEVER, if supervisor 1 wants it to be his/her way, seek assistance/opinion from postgrad lecturers regarding your research (but this one must keep to your own only. If report to supervisor 1, confirm kena marah lol)
6) If you think your method is better, provide the significance and gantt chart to your supervisor 1 for consideration (if you insist to keep with your time frame)
7) If your supervisor 1 memang keras kepala kaw-kaw, then, just follow her way................ but, make use of your own method too if it seems possible.

8) Don't argue with supervisor 1, always sounds persuasive. If she/he talks, just follow and jot it down. Jadi lah anak murid yang baik.

9) Do your homework. Regarding your research, lets say you found 10 LR/journal - write down their
a) authors
b) empirical setting
c) method/sample size
d)research focus
e) results
Please refer to this link regarding LR comparison I've mention just now. (the picture's too big)



10) good luck in "negotiation" with super saiyan 1. lol

This post has been edited by leah235: Sep 4 2013, 10:41 AM

leah235's approach might work well in your case. Apart from this, be a happy student just like Him and apply Richard Koch's 80/20 Principle in your research. By the way, you have been saying about the issue has something to do with your main supervisor's direction. What kind of direction is that direction? The reason I ask that is that in order to survive the unthinkable in doctorate, I will need to understand your situation whether it is People Problem or Problem People.

Supervisor 1 has no background in whatsoever that I am doing. Susah la
Every night I cannot sleep thinking of this?
Should I terminate Supervisor 1 from my thesis?

My direction:
1) Prepare for candidacy
2) Collect data and analyse
3) Write thesis and submit
4) Graduate!

Main Supervisor direction:
1) Write ISI papers (pushing for 3 ISI papers published per year)
2) Ask me to attend workshops on behalf of him/her because he/she could not attend it. However, he/she needs the notes but cannot stay in the seminar for long. So, I have to be there to jot down notes for him/her. These workshops and seminars has nothing to do with me.
3) He/she loves to say "You do not have a choice." Even my own boss doesn't say this to me. zzz
4) I only want to enrol for Masters by Research. He/she wants me to enrol for PhD. (Note: I do not have any background on researching at all. Researching/thesis writing is not covered in undergraduate level).

I cannot sleep every night because of this.
First, he/she is my main supervisor. I must listen is it? Dun I have a choice?

OK, I read it all.

TS, your supervisor is a male or female?
Maybe you can talk to SV that you can publish conference paper/proceeding paper.....and if you get lucky, you'll get to publish into ISI.

Have you talk about your concern to the main SV? Like how you share in LYN?
IMO, just follow for one semester first.
But, if you have discussed with SV and still not working, you shall seek assistance from Head of Postgrad / whoever incharge in student-SV relationship.

internal -> mediator -> external

Sure you do not want to cause any bad things in doing your research, right?



This post has been edited by leah235: Sep 9 2013, 09:16 PM

My main supervisor is male.

I have talk to him about this before, but all he has to say is "We will talk about this later". And the later never comes.

Since I do not want to wait about his "later", I wrote an email to him about my concerns. But until today, I received no replies whatsoever from him.

Well, you may do inquiry and report to person in charge. Of course, you wouldn't want to jeopardise your study.

im waiting for him to come back and talk to me about his. I dun want to jeopardize my studies too, but if i dun take control of my own study, then he will.

that's the spirit.

alright. Finally, decision have been made. He is no longer my supervisor.

OK, Set!

Yea, thanks.