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 Possible changes for balance test map - 12 August, Read: "None of these changes are final"

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TSEnTaroAdun23
post Aug 13 2013, 09:56 PM, updated 13y ago

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Since no one has made a topic on this yet:

Source: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/9628133352#1

QUOTE
We're looking to start testing more changes on a test map so we can better prepare to make tweaks if they’re needed in the future. Please understand: as always, we’re not proposing final changes with this balance test map. If and when we do decide to make any balance changes, we will definitely let you know.

1. Overseer speed buff (after upgrade)

TvZ feels quite balanced until the very late game when there are so many skirmishes and so many Widow Mines. We want to keep the really exciting gameplay while finding ways to help out Zerg in those specific battles. Having to micromanage your army in every engagement, morph new Banelings, manage 4-5 (or more) bases, and morph new Overseers can be a bit too much. So we’re going to test giving Overseers a speed buff after the speed upgrade is purchased, so that we keep the early- and mid-game the same while specifically helping out the Zerg in the later stages. They still wouldn't move as fast as say, Mutalisks, but perhaps late game TvZ goes more evenly if Overseers don't lag behind and get killed in most late engagements.

2. Combine mech ground and air upgrades

We don't think Terran is struggling, but do think mech in general has been weak throughout HotS. We tested this specific change a bit in the beta, and we have some idea of how much better mech will be, but a lot has changed since then, so we'd like to actually have players playtest it again.

Right now, it's looking like the only area where Terran might be weak is late game PvT, but it’s debateable. If so, this change would address that area, because upgrading Vikings that are really core in the matchup will also help with the Hellbat transition in the late game.

3. Vipers start with full energy

We’ve been discussing various options for the Zerg both internally and with top players and casters around the world, and we feel that this change might be a good place to start testing.

We don't know yet whether we want to increase the rate of Vipers’ spells, and thought it might be cool if Vipers come out of the box at full strength, so their first use has a much bigger impact. It’s possible that we can both increase the strength of Zerg in the late game and bring back a fun strategy that we’re seeing a bit less lately.

Again, please remember none of these changes are final. We're still constantly watching our ladder data and the highest level tournament games. As we all know, something that looks overpowered right now can change for top players in a matter of 1-2 weeks. We want to know as much as possible about how changes like these play out, so we’re ready when changes are needed.

Thank you!


Now my comments:

These possible changes come at the wake of Polt's 4-0 buttrape of Jaedong in the just-concluded WCS AM Season 2 Finals.

1. Overseer speed buff (after upgrade) - and/or a buff to sight radius would be nice. Nonetheless, a speed buff after upgrade would still be helpful against mass widow mines even in the mid-game.

2. Combine mech ground and air upgrades - reading the BNet comments, one user said "HELLO SKYTERRAN!". This would be a welcome dynamic to Terran. When the T goes Mech, he could transition to Air after investing a few resources towards Starports. I would be interesting to know what changes to the mineral/gas cost the balance team would make if the mech ground and air upgrades are finally combined. But personally, this is a huge Armory buff and I could only think that there should be a cost and duration increase.

3. Vipers start with full energy - one BNet comment said "so i can feedback them even sooner". Yep that's the drawback to this. However, the benefit of this buff is that, we shall see more Viper use, which means the player with better micro is rewarded more. TvZ will likely start to showcase ghosts for EMP

And finally, in case you forgot, let me read this important line to you again:

QUOTE
..please remember none of these changes are final..


Constructive input is welcome.
Quazacolt
post Aug 14 2013, 02:44 AM

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i just like to emphasize:
QUOTE
We don't think Terran is struggling,

SiewKaiz
post Aug 14 2013, 08:32 AM

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David kim butthurt no TvTvTvTvT
Ivan113
post Aug 14 2013, 10:43 AM

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Buff Zerg more!!
Increase ultralisk movement!
Increase drone movement!
Stimpack on drone! rclxm9.gif

on a serious note, I think Terran in late game is just too strong sad.gif how to stop MMM

This post has been edited by Ivan113: Aug 14 2013, 10:45 AM
coleman5951
post Aug 14 2013, 04:03 PM

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QUOTE(Ivan113 @ Aug 14 2013, 10:43 AM)
Buff Zerg more!!
Increase ultralisk movement!
Increase drone movement!
Stimpack on drone!  rclxm9.gif

on a serious note, I think Terran in late game is just too strong  sad.gif  how to stop MMM
*
ling bane muta and investor?
SiewKaiz
post Aug 14 2013, 04:10 PM

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any1 up for 2nite practise game? preferable pvt/pvz
Ivan113
post Aug 14 2013, 04:17 PM

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QUOTE(coleman5951 @ Aug 14 2013, 04:03 PM)
ling bane muta and investor?
*
they are pro at spreading, need too many banes to kill those marines marauder, by that time they spam units faster sad.gif I got my infestor sniped b4, muta against MMM? shocking.gif the only way I always win Terran is got Ultralisk at late game, biggrin.gif but normally I lose to terran becoz of their drops sad.gif
Quazacolt
post Aug 14 2013, 05:55 PM

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QUOTE(Ivan113 @ Aug 14 2013, 04:17 PM)
they are pro at spreading, need too many banes to kill those marines marauder, by that time they spam units faster  sad.gif I got my infestor sniped b4, muta against MMM?  shocking.gif the only way I always win Terran is got Ultralisk at late game,  biggrin.gif  but normally I lose to terran becoz of their drops  sad.gif
*
marauders rape ultras so hard it's not even funny lol

they drop, you got muta, which is usually more effective although a lot more costy which you can offset with superior zerg macro
firedamage
post Aug 21 2013, 01:33 PM

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Terran mechs are weak imo and i rarely use them coz they cost more and less effective than bio.

I think Blizzard shud add in goliath as thor is too big and expensive..

then i will use terran mech more often as goliath cost less and effective against air and ground.

This post has been edited by firedamage: Aug 21 2013, 01:34 PM
ravenfire
post Aug 21 2013, 02:30 PM

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Terran mech weak???? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Edit: terran mech already so strong.. no need for goliath >.>

This post has been edited by ravenfire: Aug 21 2013, 02:53 PM
firedamage
post Aug 21 2013, 02:55 PM

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This
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/9678948902
blink.gif
DuskBin.Marksman
post Aug 21 2013, 03:30 PM

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QUOTE(ravenfire @ Aug 21 2013, 02:30 PM)
Terran mech weak???? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Edit: terran mech already so strong.. no need for goliath >.>
*
Lol.......I doubt its that way. Most of Protoss arsenal could counter siege tanks / Thor (The backbone of the Mech army)

Chargelot takes reduced damage against tanks, Thor not cost efficient against zealots
Stalkers can be blinked offensively or defensively
Immortal is your anti armour DPS and tanker
Mass Colo can break through the tips of siege lines very efficiently
Mass Void ray eats armour very quickly
Phoenix lift tanks
Tempest long range poke u to death while also giving AA AOE vs Vikings
Archons also tank hard and do bonus damage to bio (Hellbats)

With Hellbat, Chargelot and Blink stalkers are negated a bunch. Blink Stalkers can still pay off by Hit and run tactics.

Mech is very difficult to play especially against skytoss on maps with a lot of dead airspace and etc imo.

This post has been edited by DuskBin.Marksman: Aug 21 2013, 03:31 PM
firedamage
post Aug 21 2013, 04:33 PM

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QUOTE(DuskBin.Marksman @ Aug 21 2013, 03:30 PM)
Lol.......I doubt its that way. Most of Protoss arsenal could counter siege tanks / Thor (The backbone of the Mech army)

Chargelot takes reduced damage against tanks, Thor not cost efficient against zealots
Stalkers can be blinked offensively or defensively
Immortal is your anti armour DPS and tanker
Mass Colo can break through the tips of siege lines very efficiently
Mass Void ray eats armour very quickly
Phoenix lift tanks
Tempest long range poke u to death while also giving AA AOE vs Vikings
Archons also tank hard and do bonus damage to bio (Hellbats)

With Hellbat, Chargelot and Blink stalkers are negated a bunch. Blink Stalkers can still pay off by Hit and run tactics.

Mech is very difficult to play especially against skytoss on maps with a lot of dead airspace and etc imo.
*
Yup, most of the time i play against protoss player i use MMM..
I wish Thor can be replaced by goliath or add goliath into terran mech..Thor is really expensive and it become an easy target since his size is big.

This post has been edited by firedamage: Aug 21 2013, 04:34 PM
ravenfire
post Aug 21 2013, 06:34 PM

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Mech is difficult to play but is by no means weak >.>
DuskBin.Marksman
post Aug 21 2013, 08:34 PM

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QUOTE(ravenfire @ Aug 21 2013, 06:34 PM)
Mech is difficult to play but is by no means weak >.>
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Weak is relative.

TvT, it does fine.

TvZ, it does arguably possible

TvP....it's painful. Very painful....especially when you die to too many ways possible.
WhySoSerious12
post Aug 21 2013, 08:41 PM

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QUOTE(ravenfire @ Aug 21 2013, 02:30 PM)
Terran mech weak???? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Edit: terran mech already so strong.. no need for goliath >.>
*
i think terran mech not really strong in competition game against other races, but in ladder match maybe is quite good for bronze - diamond or master quite good.

bcuz i watch b4 terran mech against zerg in wcs EU if i remember correctly, the terran use all mech in his challenger league against 2 zerg players oni manage win 1 out of 5 game, 0-2,1-2

mb is the zerg player was good.

and Flash as terran player also said bio or mech 100% bio is stronger against other races

here is the interview

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessag...pic_id=426074#1
TSEnTaroAdun23
post Aug 22 2013, 12:43 PM

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QUOTE(DuskBin.Marksman @ Aug 21 2013, 08:34 PM)
Weak is relative.

TvT, it does fine.

TvZ, it does arguably possible

TvP....it's painful. Very painful....especially when you die to too many ways possible.
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I agree with this.

TvT, Flash vs Innovation in Proleague just crossed my mind. After some mech, they teched to Viking/BC. Innovation won because of a lucky Widow Mine.

ZvT, if mech is unscouted, it's very difficult to play against, especially before Swarm Hosts and Broodlords. Zerg attacks from multiple directions is a must.

TvP, LOL. Pure Mech is auto-lose against Protoss. Mech just doesn't have enough range and DPS (and LAZERZ!!) to combat any type of Protoss attack.

 

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