What? Because of piracy issues? What the hell this have to do with releasing Xbox 360 in Malaysia. Or is it punishment?

Microsoft Malaysia ... wake t.f up! What is your purpose here anyway? Symbol of unfairness and hatred? That might well be the case if Xbox 360 and Xbox Life is not properly relased and supported here by the end of this year.

Otherwise Microsoft Malaysia better just pack their wares, move out and never to show your dongle here forever. We can buy your Windows XP and Microsoft Office from retailer. We don't care much about that. I am fine with my Linux and Open Office.

Yet, a lot of us do care about getting Xbox 360 and be supported on the proper chanel. Comeon, it is expensive piece of hardware. What? Buy from our friend in SG and then cross our finger?

Malaysian Market is not important for Microsoft? Well then, I rest my case. Just pack your thing and get t.f out.

BOOOOOO!!!!

*** Yeah I am a bit schizo paranoid today, where is my pill.

more like ranting than anything useful to it
where's the master chief 0wn3d?

if i were microsoft i also dun wan sell @ malaysia la

msia ppl poor one ... afford buy the console also not afford buy games...
they might be losing money selling in msia...

good to see your fighting spirit there! maybe you should try CC this mesg to msoft malaysia.

Dude, don't take it personal, it's all about the money. Business is still business, if they can't justify the move of importing a whole new range of products into a country, they just won't do it. Nobody wants to get involved in a money-losing business.
Honestly, not much ppl will spend so much money in console gaming nowadays while ahem version games are all over the place. This is not Singaproe, where the government has a tight control in this issue, M$ is fully aware that the Singaporean government is protecting their interest. Malaysia? We all know the very best of our own government.
So in the future, I think they will come in, when the price is stable and ahem games are not so rampant. For example, look at the psp, nobody can effectively crack the tough nut yet. So in return, you can see Sony Malaysia officially supporting it and the retailers can make money by selling original games. If everybody can download games from internet (like the n-gage), nobody will support it, we all know what happen to n-gage.
M$ will come in some day. But not in the near future probably.

We are world number 1/2 in piracy...feeling proud? Hell ya!!!! WOoooo!! Weeee!!!!! Rock & roll babeyy~!

Microsoft software business still working here because of business opportunity, alot of company goto buy it.
Xb360 however...no. The market only limited to the few hardcore malaysian.(not to mention malaysia is basically a Sony land)
If you want microsoft launch xb360 in malaysia, start buying one and show them there is a market here.
So, what's the point of F word here, use your energy on spreading the word will be more useful. Say, write article for the star? Kidnap the microsoft ceo's son? Just maybe....you can hijack a plane and crash into microsoft office.
That, might change their mind.


Now...master chief hump you. You like it?


btw...i don't like linux, from a leisure user point of view.

This post has been edited by PrivateJohn: May 19 2006, 03:08 PM

Yo! PrivateJohn. Yes you. Come here. Lets talk it all civil and rational without resorting to violent like virtual humping. Like a man? Or like a Moderator and Newbie?

Write bad thing about Microsoft and you lock the topic! What is next man? Moderate me for trying to get some sense into a Moderator?

Dear Malaysian,

Think about this. Everytime you plonk RM 1.5 K for an Xbox 360, you are buying unofficial, unsupported product within Malaysia. When you sign up for Xbox Life using US zip code or SG address you are signing up (and paying) for unsupported service. They might as well terminate your service on the ground that you are using fake information anyway.

And not to say that a lot of us are in a very confuse state. Don't believe me? Just look at the thread being posted and count how many people here that is confuse on the following issues

1. Xbox 360 availability. Where to buy it? What is the price? Oh is it SG or MY price? Is it premium or core? Uh uh! where to go when my freaking box blow! What to do! Help me get support for my RM 1.5K paper weight!!!

2. How to use Live? How to register, there is no Malaysia in it? Is it OK to use US zipcode? What happen if MS send promotional thing to the false adress? It is not working how to get help? HELP!!!!!

Oh! and some good soul here has been helping this people, which is good. But what is the RM 1.5K for? And still people are confused. Very very confused. Not every Malaysian come to LYN forum and read about every post here. So they are even more confused. This is bad image for Microsoft. And they don't even care?

Back to you Private John



This is a chicken and egg situation. If it is not officially supported here, then non hard core gamer and Malaysian Sonny supporter will not jump into Xbox 360 wagon. so round and round we go in this chicken egg situation. That is the market is not being developed and then you say Microsoft do not release here because the market is not strong? Develop the market and believe me it will be a strong market.



Again, chicken & egg condition. I buy Xbox (original) though. Microsoft did not translate this action as good "market"? So countering your argument. Buying an Xbox 360 will not show that there is market here. Doing so will just burn you to the end of days. It means that you will have to use unsupported console, unsupported life service and be confuse. Looks what happen to Malaysia Xbox owner.

But it is not so bad actually. I can live with it for Xbox because the online service is not that important and xbox don't need that much support. That is what so sweat about Xbox. How about 360? Now that will be different because it is a confusing product that will require some amount of support and Life Service to function. Correct me if I'm wrong.



The f word (hey I don't even capitalize it in my previous post) is just to spice things up. I don't imply that the 'f' is profanity. And yet you take it as such? Damn, your imagination is good!

I am spreading the word here in LYN. We Malaysia Bolehman always accept things without complaining and being critical. Even though we gonna suffer here and there we will take it as it come and be happy. No need to express ourself right? Oh! and in certain environment being too expressive means you are going to be moderated right? So it is easier to be Malaysia Bolehman, continue to accept shit left and right and yet still smiling! (I swear I am gonna write a piece of satire about Bolehman one of this days, that's gonna be fun).

Peace to all human and Bill Gates. Please officially release Xbox 360 and Live here in Malaysia by the end of this year.

Yours sincerely,
Haris

As someone who works for MS on a contractual basis... I would just like to point out that there are many reasons as to why the 360 is not officially launched here... I admit that although piracy is a factor it is not the only factor. Things like appointing a reliable distro, existing internet infrastructure and broadband penetration rates, % of Malaysian gamers that play online, the total market size of Malaysian gamers and spending habits of Malaysian gamers have also been taken into account.... after running all those numbers it doesn't seem viable due to all the costs involved in a&p, logistics, legal framework, manpower blah blah blah... so live with it...

and if you're asking what credentials i have for all the stuff above, I handled the SG launch.... have a nice day...

This post has been edited by yoroi: May 19 2006, 07:08 PM

u handled the SG launch

hmm holiday plaza JB is nombor 1 most wanted for piracy in the US

didn't you know? thats why i was called the orang dalam

Yes...you come in to xbox land. Must do one humping. It's the way of life...for a xbox'rai. Sorry, it's da culture....must respect my ancestor.

I lock it not because it's bad thing, because i don't see what's the point. It has been discussed thousand times. We have been whining since the xbox 1 age together with t-rex & other Dinosaur.
You think we don't want microsoft to launch xb360 here because of _____?? What's the blank? No...we are not mentally retarded (nope..not yet) We are malaysia most elite Microsoft whore and you think we don't care??!?!

We want it to be official here but the truth is : *boot up microsoft excel and show the slides*

1. we are world top pirated king, after china.
2. our country on the world map is like your pimple that big only.
3. sony ownz malaysia.
4. why microsoft need to spend all the resources on malaysia when they have a bigger problem to face, trying to penetrate the japanese market?
5. our awesome broadband availability
6. too many aqua & gay.

See that? Xbox 1 is not official here (all import version) and heck, the market is laughable + everybody mod & play pirated version only. What's da use?


Probably we malaysian are tooooo bolehman that always talk only, that's why microsoft don't even bother to launch the damn thing here.
If you want that to happen, talk the talk, walk the talk...erm, whatever that cool sentence people always use.

So...act now!! Go buy one now, connect to xblive then your gamer moto put 'I am a MALAYSIAN' Get involve in the forum, any xbox activity more~ Play xbox live with singaporean, american or eskimos...when they thought you are from china, you say I AM MALAYSIAN!
Keep talking in this forum and god forbit, only Britney Spear will know you are typing.

Ok..since you wana discuss. I will merge this with your previous thread, i will reopen.
Now...let me hump you one more time.


World peace....

PS : not very important but...

If you wana know where and what machine/games to buy, go here. It's handle by pspboy.
If you wana know how to connect to live, all the xb360 10101010 technical stuff, go here.
If you wana know where is all the malaysian xblive gamers, go here
If you wana buy 2nd hand or trade xb360 stuff, go here
If you wana talk nonsense, go here
If you wana hang out with malaysia coolest xblive idol, go here
If you wana date a hot chix, pm me..i am hawt.

This post has been edited by PrivateJohn: May 19 2006, 07:26 PM

now this is why we love (ewww) our bro PJ...handling his job like a usual mod but being a funny fart at the same time

It really surprised me to see FFX offcially released for Indonesian market. Where is Malaysia with its tallest building, can't people see it? i don't even know, being covered by haze i guess. Even for Sony, releasing "J" stuff for their PS2 in our market wont make any difference either.

To Haris, no offense but i think you should save up enough money and migrate to Singapore. I am very frustated with the current situation as much as you do, but i can't say anything about it, maybe it's my karma for being born in this such country. But then again hey, i get to watch porn stuff till i can't masturbate anymore with Streamyx.

So cheers

You gay?

well mr. haris, this time your sentence is more constructive. unlike first, more like ranting, which the kopitiam is more suitable place for it.

well many people have their view why MS didn't launch here. but the main reason i believe when MS consider how many people going to buy the console? how many people going to keep buying the games? to enter malaysia, they will need to spend millions for license, agents, advertisment, promotions, etc. and seeing malaysia market, i'm sure they penetration won't be profitable. and our currency was so low also doesn't help.

just look at sony, the reason they selling ps2 here was because now they got their own retail store, so putting the ps2 there was only to fill the empty shelf. have you ever see any ps2 advertisment in tv?

NO.I mean why would i be g...OH the post.oh.

Never mind...just express your feeling. It's legal over here.

im still not gay.

Mr. Threadstarter.. RAnt rant rant..
Yoroi... Err.. Memory serves me right, I have a t-shirt with you rite..?
PJ... Errr.. Nothing
PSP_boy...You Brokeback..?

you have a tshirt (i think ladies one though.... the same tees that those chix wore at the launch...relax relax brudder new one... not used...and some pencils)

Hm my guess is that as a stopgap solution is that for Microsoft Singapore to recognize Malaysia as part of the Singapore market.. i mean, logistically we're just a stones throw (or a minister's shout) away and i suppose having the local Microsoft office to commit a small room + a small team to handle items shipped in from Singapore wouldn' hurt. With that, we can all enjoy standard price on official hardware + software.

But then again i'm an art director. what do i know about business/economics

I don't call Sony Malaysia 'supporting' the Malaysian market. What is it that we got from Sony Malaysia? They know they don't need to support that many consoles since everyone mods them and thus voids their warranty, they didn't even go through the trouble to make english games available here!

If you think it's possible for MS Malaysia to just say "Yeah, let's sell the 360 here. RIGHT NOW!" then I'd guess you have no idea the amount of work involved that is required like Yoroi mentioned.

you can't just simple distribute the consoles like what our game shops are doing right now, there must be proper tech support channels created, head count for regional support, convincing distributors to take stock of games and consoles. The whole network must be established before a proper product can be sold and supported here.

Gamers like us don't need to call product support when we can't seem to get 480P working on our TV, but there are plenty of people out do who do!

And why is it then no one complained when Sony took it's own sweet time to 'support' the local market?

did M$ properly or really launch windows xp here?
will they do that for x360?
i guess the hype only comes out in the local game/IT magazine...
but the coverage for it just for the sake of introducing it to the local market...
it doesnt state where and how to get x360...
some more, x360 is all about XBLive...
as newer games will be released, x360 will need to be updated...
hence, how many malaysians r on broadband?
let me rephrase that, how many malaysians use internet at home?
ppl in rural areas dont have broadband, not so rural also got no broadband, why should they buy x360?
and previuosly even some places in kl also very hard to get streamyx...
even xbox 1, klang valley and johor selling xbox at rm600...other places prolly be at least RM 700, pirated games very limited due to low demand, 1 disc can cost up to RM 8 per game and maybe even more....
why should they buy x360 when it cost more at those places and games cost 1 month of kitchen expences?
thats why the ps2 very succesful here, anywhere you go, prices mostly the same or more or less different...
so, why should M$ launch x360 here when the numbers are extremely fugly to them?
they still make money from M$ Office and Windows XP, can they do that with x360?
i guess not....
just my 2 cents...

Yes, MS properly launched WinXP here.

Local game IT magazine coverage on 360? Well let's think about it.. all coverage on games locally are really errr... we all know that there's no real way to get the PS2 games which they're reviewing here right?

read what the forumers have out down.... these are not empty rants... so read them carefully before you brush them off...

that's my point...the x360 was covered in GamerAxis and Max IT,can't remember when, but nothing much...thats it...no fun, not hype enough....
and more over, most consoles games that ppl buy r pirated ones...pirated xbox games r more expensive than the ps2's....
to get the reviewed games, go for ori...

prolly can suggest M$ Malaysia like this....
no need official launch,official announcement saying that Malaysians can buy x360 locally from them, like buying Dell PC..order console + game, send to customer's home, setup game console and XBLive(if got broadband)....
any prob, call M$ center, techie come check....thats it...can what like that...
my thoughts only...

aiyoo no worry lah now at KL got distibutor (Ingram Micro) carry Asian XBOX 360

any problem just send back to them

i agree wif u guy microsoft du want to launch 360 in malaysia bcoz here market is very little and another problem is the piracy issue ..... just my 2 cents like me also a poor guy can affort console but not game another thing actually the game is cheap bcoz of the tax make the game very expensive

This post has been edited by cuoreboy: May 20 2006, 04:56 AM

Sheesh...i thought i have found my true.....sigh....

Where is the thread starter? Don't tell me he really go kidnap bill gates son.

OMFG! pJ coming out of the closet!

well normally after people finish ranting they will dissapear.

Nope, have you read the newspapers today? An aeroplane is hijacked and heading toward M$ office...

bro, if you're not going online, not going to connect to XBLive then its ok like that....
might also say buy from Djinn, TNL and also Imbi Mario or any retailers sells x360 here..

the other thing the thread starter stressed here also regarding registering for the XBLive account....
All x360 users in Malaysia now are registered under other countries addresses...
not their home address, maybe got home address but postcode and area is not Malaysia...

kaboom... kaboom... kabooooooomish... no more M$ oofice.
sorry ah no hard feelings.

My very personal point of view here; for me, purchasing original games is very depending on the salary range in a country, like in US and UK, you can easily earn up to USD 2k and games cost are around USD 50+-. Even in Singapore, I dun think is hard for you to find a job that earn you 2k SGD a month and yet, games there are around 60-70 SGD. Finally, please look at our own country, if you earn 2k, RM 150++ for a game and RM 1.5K for 360 please, there gone your salary. So I don't think Malaysian dunwan to support originals, we are not at the level yet that we can afford orginals. And finally, Microshaft realize this far more than we do, let's hope for the best !!!

I agree with the previous post. very priveliged (cant spell) few can afford to buy original games. Only since price for xbox 360 games (and console) drop can i afford such things " Hopefully MS can be kind and give us real games for the price of ahem games gaming bliss

You'll see that happen when you can see a rainbow in the middle of the night...

It'll never happen. Imagine a US$50 360 game. That US$50 is distributed to so many people:

1) The retailer's profit margin
2) The distributor's profit margin
3) The creator's royalty
4) The parent console's royalty (MS, Sony)
5) The material costs (CD, box)

Unless you can persuade any of the above to stop taking profit

just like me everyday said no money no money~ beli ToTo kena Magnum

gamers who know the psp well,would know that there are downloadable games for it,as well...

the reason the ngage failed,imo,was because of the
1)lame graphics
2)bad design
3)hardly any support
4)online via gprs
5)no camera(if there was a cam,it would make for some interesting games)
6)lack of titles
7)the hardware was dated from the get go...(even the GBA was better..at least eventhough it wasnt full blown 3d,it didnt pretend to be a 3d handheld console )

yoroi bro! xbox360 launching in india soon..

Despite what you may think, India is more technologically advanced than us. India is the main exporter of IT experts in the world......let's not forget that a lot of US, UK, Australian companies outsource their IT functions to Indians/Indian companies.

But yeah, even though we have our community here, we are only a small group who actually are willing to shell out RM160++ for a game, whereas the rest of the gaming population in Malaysia are only willing to pay RM5 per game...

the india launch is old news... just look around how many people are actually purchasing microsoft gaming products here?

xbox 360 will be launched in Malaysia in the next 12-18 months.

The launch has been delayed due to logistical issues at the beginning including xbox live testing from Malaysia current broadband environment.

The other matter to rectify is the distributors / retailers that needs to be setup to handle the sale, support and marketing. Anybody distributing or retailing xbox 360 in Malaysia are grey imports. There is no official support per se.

FYI for every xbox 360 sold you need FIVE games to break even.

For the enthusiast and early adopters you can get it from grey imports and what not and they will send the unit back to Singapore / HK for claim and what not.

Even the games have reached our shores at RM$180 or something like that from local distributors.

The launch will just put Malaysia on the xbox live map and official support.

does that mean i dont have to use my uncle address (USA)

This post has been edited by |Keantan|: May 31 2006, 03:33 PM

And you heard this from where?

Link please. Word of mouth from "my uncle/friend/girlfriend's neighbour" does not count.

Please don't give people false hope with postings like this, unless you have some proof that is.

what bro string, marauderz and mobi said.....

This post has been edited by duke_hunt: May 31 2006, 05:07 PM

I work for Microsoft. There is no link per se but I am high enough internally to know the planning into FY08. (Fiscal Year 08). Microsoft fiscal year starts from 1st July till 30th June. Hope this clarifies your curiousity and animosity.

So if what you're saying is true, i hope your organization can offer a registration of some sort to acknowledge that we early-adopters to be recognized as legal owners of the 360, so we can enjoy what the late-embracers will be getting? i'm not talking warranty but in terms of tech support and servicing, even for a sum of fee.. because i'd rather have a microsoft-certified technician tinkering with my pride and joy instead of some 15 year old back-alley hack with a solderer, numsayin?

My fren called MS Malaysia to enq bout the 360 being sold here and how to go bout game licensing as he is interested in opening up a X360 cafe. The Rep from MS told him that they are not planing to bring the X360 here as MS MY dont have a console division here. He also added that its vry unlikely that MS will set up shop here to sell console. When asked bout the game licensing, the Rep said that the business owner will have to take the risk as X360 is not oficially sold here. Support and legality issues have to sendiri tanggung he said.

Maybe the dude who picked up the phone is not as high up as Mr huikb here

^ Could be.. Guess maybe only upper managment know bout that eh..

I guess we just have to wait and see. It would be really awesome if what huikb said is true

Yeah, but why the sudden change of heart? I never see MS as being receptive of any of our plight here, why the sudden change now? Did we , the current Malaysian Xbox 360 community here, somehow struck a chord with someone higher up? Did you do something, huikb?

No animosity intended towards you, huikb. It is just that it has been a terribly long journey, and our journey as a community was never chronicled or acknowledged, even though we support MS wholeheartedly with our purchases. So you'd understand why the wariness and disbeliefs.

I could pass the same Q to the guys at Xbox.com, but i doubt anyone there would dig up anything about a little corner on Earth called Malaysia, and the possiblity of 360 launching here.

whats the legality? from MY gov or MS?

As we all know, MY goverment dont take IP and Piracy as a biggie, they are pushing this and that campaign and checks on company and business only because the big software guns are making a hella fuss and gives our country a bad image if the goverment dont take action to counter the claims.
So when this big guns come in with BSA, the KPDNHEP ear pain oredi.. kena komplain here n there, so barula the officer all jalan go enforcement.. legistator start to open up their law books and make laws, and then you have anti-piracy campaign.

So as to the issue of legality, you gotta be straight with MS.

Officially it is not supported as it is not launched.
Whether MS will give retrospect warranty or otherwise to units bought before the launch date I cannot answer. I am one of those owners as well. Though I work for MS I still have to send my machine for warranty in Singapore just like everybody else.

I have replied to Marauderz on the matter as well and they are several people in MS (Senior people) including myself who wants to see xbox 360 launched officially. They have already formed the Entertainment and Devices division (the guy is sitting outside my room). The change of heart comes from MS Malaysia and not WW. We are fighting a long battle since xbox launched in 2001. The battle is not over yet.

Rest assured I will invite the early adopters and users of xbox 360 from this forum to the launch event for the support. Don bother calling the call center (1-800 number) and sending an email to xbox.com as they are not right position to make the decision to launch or not to launch. The right people sit way higher than me. (like Corp VP and above).

So have a heart and let's wait. The fight continues.

The other way you can support is to call 1-800-88-6295 and ask when is xbox 360 available in Malaysia. I will be monitoring all calls on inquiry for xbox 360 interest. I have asked our call center to track all xbox 360 calls.

Xbox 360: Finish the Fight!

I hope this is for REAL, and i am desperately wanting to see the light at the end of the tunnel.

This post has been edited by stringfellow: Jun 2 2006, 11:25 AM

Yes String.. don't we all.. don't we all?

sure ah can call and ask that question... so eveyone let's just do it!

Dude.. they can't do much about it if you just call and ask when it's available lar.. don't traumatized the support staff with calls like that lar.

dont worry lah i'll be very nice. if i call tmnut then different story lah sure the tmnut customer care ppl have nightmare for 3 nights!

The last time I called one of Telekom's customer care, they had to send the customer care ppl for counseling and therapy.

We'll support you.

Guys! I am back. I read all the post. Thanks for the support and some kutuk kutuk also.

We all here to discuss! We have discuss this issue and the outcome looks somewhat bright!



Yo! PrivateJohn, you see all the good things that come out of my rant! Good thing also that you reopen this thread.

This is for you privateJohn. I hope you enjoy it!

http://privatejohn.justgotowned.com

Eh! take this as my response to your humping.

Thanks to huikb. You restore my faith in MS Malaysia.

Everyone, please forgive me for my earlier rant . I don't really mean it. However, at the same time I feel that this issue deserve public attention. And by doing so MS, either officially or unofficially, will give public the much deserved response.

BTW, 2008 is long way to go! In the mean time let see whether WII or PS3 will be officially supported here sooner than that.


Cheers for all!

Lets go have a WII WII

yay...happy ending. *happy tree friends* tune....

So...go buy a xb360 now. Enough talking.

btw...you.....very free on da own3d thing eh?

Heh heh heh ... imagine 2 weeks I go under just to create that owned thing. I put all my hatred in to it!

There is even one good picture of you, PrivateJohn just being !NGAP! by jawz. MUAHAHAHAHAHA <--- evil laugh!

Heh just kidding man... You can try this :

put_any_thing_here.justgotowned.com

U got it? Ok good! Just don't put my name there

hihi...before we talk abt launch.....any chances we can select Malaysia under locale?

Judge...stop post ur picture here again

Erm, we can expect his snap shot here soon...

As far as im concerned, Ingram Micro is one of the microsoft authorized OEM distributor. But the issue here is that: Do they actually have the authority to distribute it in Malaysia ? And watsoeva carry out the waranty for maintenance ?

To poster (cuoreboy): Plz tell me more bout this.
To our lyn MS insider (huikb): Plz clarify things regarding this matter.
Thx in advance. Im doin a market research on this product for my coursework.

Malaysian Xbox 360 FTW!

As far as Malaysia is concern xbox 360 is not launched yet therefore any distributor are buying it parralel from Singapore.

Ingram Micro is one of Microsoft authorized OEM Disti in Malaysia but not for xbox 360. They could be buying from their Ingram Micro Singapore who could be a xbox 360 reseller.

That said they "might" have the capability for maintenance but for warranty purposes you still need to send back to Singapore.

Hope this clarifies everybody question in mind.

Just to back huikb here....Im in MS as well, and what he says can be taken as very reliable

good 1...by then i can set m'sia as my locale instead south africa....LOL

lol.. south africa. yeah.. would be nice to have a Malaysia.



Well, to make things look/feel a wee bit better, FY08 begins mid-year of 2007 like what huikb said.

PS3 and Wii.. will be inetresting.

With the price PS3 is selling at. They better have some kind of support

Thx for ur reply. Really appreciate em.
The guy i quoted said he only spot the ingram hologram sticker and therefore, made a wild assumption stating that it all started from there.

Dun tell me dat ingram oso dun hav a gaming division like u guyz ...lmao.
Okie, thx again.

thanks to huikb for sharing out such valuable info. you can't get more creditable source of info from anybody else here other than him.

it's good to know that MS has not deserted us on xbox 360 as what they did on the first xbox. but i just afraid by the time they launch it in their next fiscal year (if it's really being materialized), PS3 would have been out, which is still a more favourable hit amongst asian markets. not to mention by that time xbox 360 would have passed more than 30% of its lifetime.

personally... when any company is not showing any enthusiasm to market their product to me, i would not bother to support it as well...