Guy~ pls advise, which 1 shud i get, the price is jus about 4k different

-Toyota Vios 2006 G-spec ( 120km +/-)
-Proton Saga SV

Why and why not u choose vios / saga



This post has been edited by ItsWL: Jul 21 2013, 01:18 PM

Saga new, Vios not. Similar cars. Running costs for the Vios will be higher.

saga headlamp already win

viosTRD

Vios

120K KM
i would say saga SV if price only different 4k

get the saga pls, and worry free. at least for first 3-5 yrs if u service regularly.

the vios is quite beaten up at 120k mileage. wont even consider this at all.

Godlike vios if u want to show off

"Poor losers get saga sv" if u want peace of mind

a typical toyota car can run up to 150k-200k km without overhaul

and i havent seen a car that can run as good as new on the road after overhaul

if you plan to use the car for at least 10 years, just ignore the vios

overhaul and good as new?
look for maddriver
at least got warranty from him.
https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...91&hl=maddriver

SV and make sure service in SC during warranty period.

I'll go Vios used, make sure it is accident free and the wiring is not altered. 120,00km, no problem. Even if you send the Vios to Toyota SC for full engine overhaul, it will only cost RM4k at most. FC wise is king, city driving can get 12km/L when others are at 9-10km/L. Toyota conventional gearbox would only get little slippage after breaching way over 200,000km or 230,000km depends on how well the owner treat the car. Still can engage all the gears without issue, hassle free.

I won't buy Saga because of its old tech engine, still using timing belt I assume and probably without VVT. Gearbox if CVT, that is even wanted to avoid at all cost. Not sure whether local gearbox overhaul shops can fix that today. I've seen how City and Sylphy owners have to buy new rather than fix when theirs had the steel belt dislocated previously. Maintenance for CVT also higher, have to pay RM400+ at 60,000km service interval. Not cool.

This post has been edited by jayraptor: Jul 21 2013, 10:26 PM

1st time buyer = Saga SV
Experience user = Vios 2006 G but running cost will be higher. More headache to maintain a 7 years old car.

No brainer its the saga. My friend just like you bought the old vios. The problem occur slowly because you cant see what had happened to the car in the past. So far the serious problem he encountered is the brake master pump. A car around that mileage is just like time bomb, you just wont know which parts are giving out soon.

Saga CVT uses the same engine block as a normal Campro, but the cams and piston are different from the older Saga BLM. This is to redistribute the torque across the RPM range. You are right it does not have VVT.

Whats wrong with timing belt? The Fiesta Duratec TiVCT also use timing belt. Fark, it doesnt even have independent ignition coil!

CVT oil change at 60k km for RM400, 4AT oil change every 20k km for around RM150. You tell me which is cheaper. A well maintained CVT can last quite long, Proton has tested the Belgium made CVT for up to 250k km, so it is largely reliable. The true weakness of CVT is that it is sensitive to heat and even though the Saga is fitted with a CVTF cooler, you should not subject it to high torque load for prolonged periods of time. This is true for any CVT aplication.

As for the Vios, I assume it is the old gen Vios as my house has the very last batch of the NCP42 model bought in 2007, done around 90k km. Maintained according to schedule it is a damn reliable workhorse, but even so some parts have already been replaced eg. Valve seal, wheel bearings, driveshaft, engine mounting is due for a replacement, and lately there have been weird noises from the engine bay which we still have not identify the source.

If the car is well taken care of it can last quite some time I figure, if the TS knows where to find an honest mechanic to service it then he is good to go. But the caveat is the car must be found in good condition to begin with.

This post has been edited by dares: Jul 22 2013, 12:31 AM

myvi(os) still running in excellent condition despite 180k clocked since 2007. this 1.5G is the last batch before the dugong came out. people said high maintenance after warranty expired, but the truth is the opposite. im in the peace of mind in regards of maintaining this car. the exterior design also better than the dugongs. plus the FC is incredible too!

maybe its my luck for not getting the lemon one but my vios is too reliable that i cant find any faults to replace it.

Saga SV, Vios first gen too old.

damn that means kenot lesing banyak lorh

Do you mean P1 Saga 4AT ATF fluid change at 20,000km interval? That is truly unacceptable. Toyota gearbox, they stated oil change at 100,000km while many uncles don't even bother to change and the gearbox still in 1 piece after 200,000km.

As long as it's CVT and no valve timing, I would avoid. Valve timing is compulsory nowadays and must have dual VVT for newer cars. Without VVT is like no fuel injection back in 90's end up high on FC. Today's cars are much heavier than back then and VVT especially dual is the answer to overcome size + weight problem without compromising FC.

Later tech, it will be compulsory for GDI + Turbocharged.

My wira 96' sohc no vvti running with fuel injection, only the cons is dun have lancer gt rear 50kg metal bar

The Vios at home changed every 40k km as per the schedule given by the SC's SA. Forgot the price, but it was not less than RM200.

Anyway, the lack of VVT is somewhat mitigated by a variable intake manifold aka the IAFM. Not as efficient as VVT, but it helps nonetheless. My FLX SE's FC was not much worse than my Fiesta's (keyword here is NOT MUCH WORSE, but still not as good), partly because the Saga was running on CVT. Bear in mind Ford brought many new tech to bear, including twin variable cam timing (intake and exhaust) as well as dual-clutch. Not to forget, I paid a lot more for the Ford as well.

You can always theorize how stepped transmissions is cheaper to maintain and how VVT is superior than everything. But you have to drive and maintain the car to see if those theories hold water in reality.

Like I said, in terms of refinement, comfort and FC the Vios still owns the Saga CVT. You just have to get a one in prime condition, otherwise if you get a problematic unit with parts at the end of their operational lifetime, you might as well get the Proton - at least warranty is free.

Out of topic, just FYI, Preve's CFE Campro comes with VVT.

This post has been edited by dares: Jul 23 2013, 02:26 PM

Variable air intake doesn't help reduce FC that much as seen in some earlier generation Conti, US & Koreans made when they have not able to develop proper VVT in early 2000s. Toyota SC got greedy and set short interval to cheat owners? People don't change ATF fluid that short interval for conventional AT, at least 100,000km onwards only.

Saga FLX
Engine 1332cc with VIS but no VVT
output 94ps@5750rpm
torque 120Nm@4000rpm
kerb weight - 1055kg lo-spec / 1065kg hi-spec
CVT gearbox
0-100km/h 14.5s

Fiesta 1.6 AT
Engine 1596cc dual VVT + VIS
output 122ps@6300rpm
torque 152Nm@4050rpm (website showing 148Nm ??)
kerb weight 1153kg hatchback / 1171kg sedan
6AT - strong & bigger gears 3.917 1st gear
0-100km/h forgot whether 9.9s or 9.7s

Saga relies on smaller engine & lighter weight for FC. Saga FC can't even beat Myvi 1.3VVT. How sure are you that Saga can beat Fiesta in city FC? Fiesta is 1 of the few B-segment (budget <100k) so far that could challenge Vios in real city driving. Preve Campro VVT is belt driven which is less effective like older generation Korean made when they first came up with VVT, all belt driven. Only Sonata NF Theta engine & later i30/Forte Gamma engine equipped with timing chain have proper FC comparable to Toyota.

This post has been edited by jayraptor: Jul 24 2013, 11:50 PM

I didn't say Saga FC can beat Fiesta, I said the difference is not huge, but Fiesta still runs more economically. Also, the Saga I was comparing to was the FLX SE 1.6l, not the 1.3l.

I sold my Saga FLX SE 1.6 at 14k km, my Fiesta is around 13k km at the moment, and I do keep track of my FC during my ownership of both cars. Like I said, we can go on and on about paper figures all year long, but in my personal experience as owner of both cars, I can't say the difference is really that significant. Once you have learnt how to drive the CVT (For example, I monitor my instant fuel consumption to train my footwork), the Saga can be quite economical as well. Most complaints about the high FC with the FLX stems from owners driving the CVT like a regular 4AT.

do not mislead ppl pls gayraptor. who says ppl dont change ATF earlier than 100k mileage? in fact most service booklets recommend customer to service at 50 or 60k intervals. if ppl's auto gearbox got prob you gonna compensate for what you said here in misleading the public?

and pls dont make ppl laugh on your jokes, will ya? timing chain or timing belt driven engine will not determine the FC of the engine lar. lol!

You think Toyota so kind and generous to give timing chain? FYI, timing chain cost more expensive to produce and that chain alone cause Toyota to lose out millions out of 60k timing belt replacement income. They have no choice but to give timing chain as the VVT could only operate well with timing chain.

Toyota is known as reliable & durable, some uncle doesn't even bother to change ATF and their old Toyota gearbox still in 1 piece. FYI, conventional gearbox is mechanical and the ATF fluid is there to serve as lubricant. CVT gearbox ATF not only as lubricant but to allow the movable face to operate well.

CVT is made as more gears alternative when they could not produce 5AT with larger gears at that time. Today, gearbox manufacturers have no problem coming up with 6AT, 7AT and the latest 10AT gearbox with much larger gears than the Manual transmission counterpart.

Probably your self made turbocharged engine have to service everything early as the air intake & exhaust part pressure doesn't comply and inefficient choking the engine. Breath in too much air and can't fart out the air well causing excessive pressure trapped inside and more carbon buildup. Have to clean everything often therefore your maintenance cost go skyrocket.

There is no joke here, only you and those who could not accept reality and facts said so to prevent the knowledge from spreading. It's an unethical strategy called make facts look like made up with you bunch outnumbering that comment.

Ohhhh timing chain improve FC!

omfg! what bullshit are you spewing out there now? it just show how much of an idiot and moron you are! LOL! with this post, it already good enough to prove you know nutz about cars and trying to act smart or a pro here. totally misleading forumers and the public with misguided information! if those mention above is consider as information to begin with.

This post has been edited by Gouki: Jul 25 2013, 01:14 AM

No wonder my ex5 so.good fc, running.with.timing chain

i didnt know timing chain can improve FC? only timing chain can make VVTi and VTEC to work? what happen to those timing belt engines in the 90s that can rev high on vvti and vtec? i didnt know CVT has "faces" to operate well.
and CVT is made as more gears alternative? hahahahaha
and the latest 10AT gearbox with much larger gears than the Manual transmission counterpart?

and this really made my day

"Probably your self made turbocharged engine have to service everything early as the air intake & exhaust part pressure doesn't comply and inefficient choking the engine. Breath in too much air and can't fart out the air well causing excessive pressure trapped inside and more carbon buildup. Have to clean everything often therefore your maintenance cost go skyrocket.

There is no joke here, only you and those who could not accept reality and facts said so to prevent the knowledge from spreading. It's an unethical strategy called make facts look like made up with you bunch outnumbering that comment."

hahahahahahaha.

ppl says u listen la..
CVT with ATF oil u know! Its professional okay!
I says I fill in cap buruh he says kenot

U dun try to spread lies la.. Ppl wan tell fact

Seriously im interested in the part too much air goes in cannot come out ... Lol lol lol

MAN He is Good in these stuff man!!
. Pressure build up cannot release I bet gone case d... Lolz.. But he can build a system where pressure can be trap ! KReS in turbo

yea, damn good theory i tell u. its quantum physics that we could not comprehend. lol.

TS since you have add in the list of 2006 dugong then why not dugong?

Better feature & better show off & better magnet chick & Toyota 4AT more reliable & better FC also & more dugong power to ride...

Saga SV for budget only, even my 10 yrs sentra quality & NVH still better than saga or myvi.

I dun really agree with this..

U need to take consideration of how long the TS plan to use the car? Did he budget of much for maintenance?

2006 vios is 7years old today. No matter T or H or N.. There is so call Tear and Wear.. And 7 years car u need to do quite a lot replacement for old parts d. As for a new ride, it might not be better build than T H or N, but its cover in warranty. And if TS were meant to drive 2-3 years an change the ride.. Im sure new car here is more worthit. Not to mention the skyrocket dugung used price.. But by the time the TS wanted to sell it off (2-3 years ) it would be 10years old and the price will suddenly dip due to unable to loan from bank

Juz my 20 cent.

expert said that vios more 100k km will be more fuel efficiency

Warranty cover is not so big issue..
Like the most expansive parts on gearbox?
4AT can last longer than CVT after pass 5 yrs who guarranty it?

Did u actually read what I wrote?

after 7 years, even the strongest gearbox in the world would fail if its never taken care by the previous owner properly. thats why kenny said, "wear & tear"! a lot things need to take into consideration. mileage of the car, how the car is driven, where it is driven, and how it is serviced. if u have cash to spare for wear & tear maintenance, then you can go ahead and get a used car. else stick with new cars with warranty to cover your ass if anything goes wrong.

Nightstalker1993, look at this post.

This post has been edited by Gouki: Jul 25 2013, 08:23 AM

In the first place, once you bought the use car, if that car is purely accident free..
So why you too worried?

For example on my 2003 sentra and clocks over 150k Mileage already.

What I did.. Change the engine oil, 4AT oil, suspension that so... Still can last another 10 yrs.

Make sure you do interval 5k Km for serving & maintenance, what is the faulty parts and change on next serving.

These car also like human, didn't take bath and sleep or change cloths, even new born baby also will faulty.

I wonder where TS find the Vios so cheap, because the 2007 Vios NCP42 in my home is valued at RM45-50k.

Buying a 6 year old car at that price really isn't the best way to spend your money.

U know there are expert who suggest ATF in CVT..
Accident free doesnt means the car well maintain. Some ppl service late this and that, sludge will build up.

Okay.

That is the option for choose new & used.

i just heard from my colleague that ATF is changed every 100k
he might got the information from this fella....
if one going to drive the car 20k km per year the ATF going to last him 5 years
for me i have no confident that the ATF remain unchange in my GB for 5 years

for me i going to change it around 30-40k interval



This post has been edited by edison1437: Jul 25 2013, 08:47 AM

But seriously no matter how well its being maintain.. An aging car vs a new one with warranty.. New one would be a better choice I would says. Cover by warranty.. And I think when this kind of question arise , 2nd hand vs budget new.. To me the TS is quite tight on budget already.. And he is looking for a transportation.. So a cheaper one is a better choice.. Since he so budget d.. He might not really like the ride, so in few years he will change the car d..OR if dun.. Local car parts is always cheaper than japanese .. So its also cheaper to make the car MOVEable.. Notice I said moveable... Coz no matter what car parts will fallapart.. My aunts old bmw is worse than my previous old proton.

Sure or not?
From I know, 4AT Gb in recond set only cost less than 5k all in, if really unlucky.

How bout new saga SV CVT?
Over 10k right? If after warranty or unlucky.

your case is pure luck. not all used car is problem free. as the name suggest "used" car, so its used. every parts in a car has its designed lifetime somehow. although the jap could be less problem compare to the conti rides, but they will still have the chances to fail due to wear & tear. every mechanical parts that move will fail sooner or later due to wear and tear. bushings, engine mounting, absorbers, driveshafts, water pump, oil pump, fuel pump, valve springs, valve, valve retainers, camshafts, piston, piston ring, conrod, crankshaft bearing, gearbox, clutch, flywheel, brake pump, power steering pump, steering rack and etc. all this moving parts will sooner to fail. old car means old car bro.

This post has been edited by Gouki: Jul 25 2013, 10:11 AM

If you have own more than 10 yrs old ride until now, you sure appreciated of old car vs new car today.

For me I am to be the hobby as sentra N16 now.
If you feel free and join me here : https://www.facebook.com/groups/344926425626409/

U are comparing recon against new! Try go toyota ask for new vios Gb see how much
Saga is new, cover by warranty
Vios 7 years, can guarantee wont fail in 3 years?

I will never buy a 2nd hand car with mileage more than 100k.

Have to agree with Gouki.

Bro u cant apply ur theory to all.. not everyone knows about car. Espcially old one that need more attention. I use to have a 14 years old proton. Yes 14. Other than some wearing parts.. its awesome.. coz i know the car and i know what to do with it. But for someone whom will ask which car to choose (does not have much ideas about car) a new one would for sure less headache. Heck my frens aging civic and sentra also did lots of replacement parts for the tear and wear

thats why, only nutcase will recommend ppl to change ATF at 100k or more. most common gearboxes do not has ATF filter like the engine did. the earlier u change your ATF, the better. heck, i changed my ATF every 10 or 20k on my previous ride. coz it's ATF was cheap.

5k, thats coz its recond unit bro. try ask for the new gearbox in Toyota SC and you will either cry or laugh for insanity. lol. but even 5k is expensive for a recond unit. i believe for any new car after the 5 years warranty, its only used 5 years compare to a 2006 vios. its already 7 years now, and he buys one and use another 5 years, it will be 12 years. so its all about individual preference and financial ability to maintain a car. if u can afford and has some cash to spare for a used car, by all means go ahead and get the car u can dream off. else, just stick with new car with warranty.

reality and dream are two diff thing bro. just like how i am a big fan of the legendary supra, skyline, mr2, ae86 and etc. but all this old car has a price to pay if u wanna own one now. 1st u must have the knowledge about cars, 2nd is the extra cash to spare to regularly do the preventive maintenance. if not it would be a hassle to only fix the car when u drive it till breakdown. thats why, for most noob that is fresh graduate and looking for their 1st car to buy. best go for new one, unless otherwise as i mentioned above.

This post has been edited by Gouki: Jul 25 2013, 10:26 AM

Like a member of the inspira gang whom use to own and fd3s.. now driving er34 with rb26dett. Keep poison me get my dream ride fd3s.. i told him even i can buy cash .. the car will be my daily cash wash and polishing model.. lolzzz

the nissan either rb25 or rb26, they are pretty tough and bullet proof engine. as for the rx7, diff case. to own a rx7, u must have another 13b engine as spare in your storeroom. lol. it only can be your 3rd or 4th ride at home. mind my word, not even as 2nd ride. due to msian hot weather, that rotary apex seal wears off pretty quickly here. lol.

ofcoz like you said earlier better
but when i go to see my "under-tree" ah beng workshop at 20k interval gear oil change he said i siao that y i change it at 30k

wah people owned ER34 also interest with PRC smell

rx8 also same bro?

if u drive normally like a sane person, then 30 or 40k should be fine. as for my previous ride, i trash it pretty hard, so the 90bux for 3L ATF every 10k is no big deal, rather than a brand new gearbox. lol.

yup .. he told me that .. infact he did have a spare 13B in his store when he got his ride .. lolz ...
and my inspira is on his rx7 ori allu wheels ...

its just a crappy satria
i bought it a very cheap price about 13k for 2005 auto last year
going to change it to manual auto is fucuking serow

damn .. apa sal u so many ride .. lolz

er... all potong leh
protong banana my dad's
protong satria 1 my bro 1 mine
protong inspalia mine
protong waja my bro zzzzz
i can kolek proton liao

but my gf diff case liao like you FIL got mini altis and abanza

This post has been edited by edison1437: Jul 25 2013, 10:49 AM

slightly better than the rx7 due to two things, genesis 13b rotary, its a more refine motor from mazda but cant hide the fact it is still rotary, another point is its NA, so less stress on the rotary, but it still need more care and attention and wears off faster than ordinary engine do. and this rotary engines really guzzle quite some engine oil. expecting 1L for every 2-5k mileage depends on the engine condition. i still see many rx7 and rx8 visiting this famous rotary workshop in usj1. lol

eh, rx7 rims nice meh?

haha, my previous ride's auto has paddle shifters, not cheap to replace.

better than ori rims ... but its 6kg ++ each ..

this is still 1 of my dream car.but looking at the cost of maintenance, i can say this car is not for me but now i see at mudah got many ppl selling off this car around 80k-90k. wonder why.

i tot u using wira lins?

hahaha, there is reason why is cheap, buying one is easy, maintaining one is the big prob. lol.
i love the rx7, especially in Amemiya spec and look. but too bad, not the time yet. lol. even got money, no time to lepak at workshop all the time for the car. lol.

what's wrong with proton?

Instead of I seeing Proton breakdown at the roadside, I see more other brand breakdown at the road side. Currently I owned 17 years 4g13 satria and 4 months iafm+ cvt preve. Still running happily

Back to the main topic, I strongly recommend you get the new saga instead of old vios...keyword for you " problem free' meaning, no need to folk out money for repairing at least in the next 3 years

Second hand car higher interests and no promotions too.

well, sad to say, new cars from proton and perodua have the almost same interest region offered compare to used japanese by this bank loan. 3%+

You can get as low as 2.7% for local cars. anything above 3% for local new cars is unreasonable dy

You actually don't know that valve timing works best with timing belt? That shows your lack of knowledge. If you lack the knowledge, go find out rather than blast blindly just because of your own personal reason out of hatred.

Timing chain does not improve FC. However, valve timing such as Toyota VVTi, Hyundai/Kia CVVT, Ford Ti-VCT, Mazda SVT do and they required timing chain to operate at optimum level.

Honda original VTEC is meant for high end hi-rev use, not meant for FC by the way. The way it works different from Toyota hydraulic VVT that was adopted by many carmakers today. Only the i-VTEC onwards, it was made for FC + hi-end performance.

This post has been edited by jayraptor: Jul 26 2013, 10:10 PM

So replying to your own red comments in your posts, pls make up your mind. you are full of contradiction yourself. So VVT best work with timing belt or chain now? do not put words in my mouth. it is you who cant even make up your mind if VVT best work with belt or chain. u said chain, then u replied me again say belt? so who is the noob now? blind hatred? hatred of what? i never say a word in my previous comments i hate anything. its all your own assumptions and fantasies! LOL!

Not i said, you did.

with this paragraph in blue, just proved how "smart" you are. Just a tip for you, most VVT and VVL are activated by hydraulics.

This post has been edited by Gouki: Jul 29 2013, 12:13 PM

If your car has VVT, example if it is Camry 2.0G '09.
1998cc with 1st generation VVT (low to mid end support only)
output 147ps@6000rpm
torque 190Nm@4000rpm
kerb weight 1450kg
city FC - 8.8km/L

If you had the intake VVT actuator removed and tune it to same tuning as above, the Camry will have the FC deteriorated to just 6-7km/L for tuning to that high plus with that weight. FYI, without VVT, the 2.0L could only tune to between 176-180Nm to get 9km/L with kerb weight of 1370kg. With 1450kg even tuned to 180Nm would experience serious underpowered and end up fuel guzzling as you need to rev harder. You think VVT for what? It's not just a name.

2nd generation full time VVT intake only could get hi-rev capability. With dual VVT, they could save FC, go hi-rev and even tune up higher to 165ps which is impossible without additional support or risk engine blown.

hahahaha, you never fail to amuse me!
i wonder how you get all your facts from that. your own holy assumptions and fantasies again?
i know what is all this variable valve timing. stop assuming everyone know nothing and as if you know everything. pathetic lah you. you cant rebut my prev post and now come with another new bullshit.

this paragraph just proved you are flawed. stop acting like you know it all. go learn up more on vvti and dual vvti before you start babbling like a lunatic again.

Do you own a car with VVT in the first place? If no, then what makes you qualify to talk crap here? If you only owned that old dinosaur Skyline GTR or old Subaru Impreza, that don't have VVT, only old wastegate turbocharger that draw in as much air and burn as much fuel as possible to get the extra power. If you are stuck at 90's tech, don't condemn new tech such as
VVT, GDI, etc without knowing what purpose they serve.

Seems like you are the 1 assuming here. If your car has VVT, kindly get video shoot of you removing it and throw it into fire furnace melting them to destruction. Then you'll find how fuel guzzling your car is to maintain at the same output/torque while with VVT.

This post has been edited by jayraptor: Aug 2 2013, 10:40 PM

nightstalker1993 <- wannabe spotted

Gouki Are correct...
even i noobs and newbies at FnF sections.... and
who say oldies GTR R34 and Subaru can't remapping the ECU?
just u spend a bit at ECU and some "piggy" and etc etc etc
then can runs like a boss, u cannot mah... rite?

inb4 learning to mods the cars..

and stop bullshiting your UN-KNOWLEDGED STUFF!
read your post..... gonna come outside and slap u

omg, u actually reply him? i already give up feeding him more trolls. lol. waste my energy to reply him lar. not worthy. lol. anyone who read his post will know he is crap.

actually i also quite dulan his stupid post also...
eum sek ban sek... ptui...

Anyway... end of his topics... nub ass of the jay... call him come cheras versus me lo

This post has been edited by mudkipryan94: Aug 9 2013, 02:24 PM

don't feed the trolls....

Save ur energy for something else please..
I offer him go halfcut shop in kepong which have a lancer GT there. I offer to pay for the anti roll bar and let him weight summore he also dare not come.. Keyboard warrior only..

he wanna play w my keypad skill?
oh why he never saw my typing speed can fast like G6 u know
just a 2In didi la... lazy...

indeed
he just a noobs...
anyway... i newbies and learner at FnF thank for pencerahan...