Guys,
I have a question here.

- In theory, fat people doesn't have much muscle, thin people also doesn't have much muscle.
- So, they need to build muscle and slowly throw away the fat.

My question is, is it ok for fat people to take mass gainer and build muscle before they cut down their fat?

Thanks.

"inb4, I'm not fat."

This post has been edited by pakdamek: May 28 2013, 01:52 PM

u totally no need mass gainer to build muscle...

i have the same problem, i do weight what i get is getting thinner and slimer
but no muscle and lean look just get slim each time, now look like thin with 0 muscle

answer for you is:

ok how i gain more muscle instead reverse thin

im from 88 > 60 now

but i want muscle

This post has been edited by takkicom: May 28 2013, 03:01 PM

read the stickies JEEEZ =.=

hw long hv u been training?

For TS, fat people have a lot of bodyfat (~duh) so if somehow they choose to bulk, they'll get much much bigger and possibly fatter. So, it will better for them to cut first, probably to 15%~ish bf then start to bulk.

6 mth cardio 6 mth on weight

holy cow, cardio for 6 month! i can feel bored in 6 days for merely cardio..

eating habit problem i guess?

i follow the men health routine for daily workout need

cardio getting slim down faster, yea possible anything goes wrong

So 6 whole months you did cardio then followed by 6 whole months of weight lifting?

Some people always said

"I do weight lifthing"
"Aku main besi"

But end up stuck in pair of 10kg dumbells in the gym......hurmm i started fat, and still fat...but i gain lots muscle by pumping heaving weight....nak besar kena main besar bro ^ ^

weekly did is
mon chest
tues cardio
wed biceps
thus cardio
fri chest
sat leg
sun cardio/rest

i did increase weight

i know my problem adi, cause my gymate ask me do i have amnesia?
i told them yes, i have long term amnesia, that why i can gain muscle


This post has been edited by takkicom: Jun 3 2013, 12:06 PM

delts/back/triceps?

mate say do these 1st until ok just do other part i follow them
maybe my table also mess up

needless to say, you're doing it wrong. read the stickies.

thx ok i will change my schedule

cannot brain this

I able to slim down by cut off some oily foods, eat less during dinner...

Why don't you try this. Eat whatever you have for dinner during lunch and whatever you eat during lunch for dinner. Tell me if you still able to slim down

I cut down some foods at dinner, mostly just fruits + cereal + hot milk then wait few more hrs then go to bed..
But I am big eater during lunch time

Wrong answer.

Cutting is never needed to gain mass.

Fat people should not cut unless they have some desire to go from fat to skinny fat.

This dinner is ~100% carbs. That's a bad "weightloss" dinner and a very good "keep me skinny fat" dinner.

How about two hard boiled eggs, a glass of milk and 200-300 grams (two servings) of broccoli, carrots or spinach for dinner.

The one you've quoted is not an answer but merely my opinion. TBH, when a person is an obese fat, what is the best improvement that they wish they want to see? Bigger body or slimmer one?

By working out and packing more muscle, they'll will become bigger and is that a good thing for them?

Well like I said, it is my opinion, not a definitive answer

This post has been edited by alien9: Jun 10 2013, 02:45 PM

Yes, this is a good thing and yes this is a definitive answer.

If they work out and pack more muscle they burn more calories than doing stupid cutting as well as plain cardio and slower rate of fat loss. of course, this doesn't mean follow a powerlifting training style.

Actually, this has been proven a lot on shows like "Biggest Loser".

Fat people should focus on doing circuit training or super sets.

Workout =/= building muscle. You need to have calorie surplus + workout to gain mass.

Circuit training, supersets will not give you muscle mass if you don't accompany them with calorie surplus. Those workout are meant to increase their metabolism through increase in EPOC.

And does cutting = cardio for you? I'm cutting but I ain't doing jackshit cardio.

This post has been edited by alien9: Jun 10 2013, 04:00 PM

Nope, that's a broad generalization and bro-science.

Fat people can indeed build muscle on below maintenance as they have plenty of fats to fuel their burn as well as to break down for recovery. Not to mention beginner gains can DEFINITELY be made on crappy diets as long as someone is working hard enough in the gym. The person just needs to eat sufficient protein to ensure a steady supply of muscle-building nutrients.

Yes cutting should involve cardio - since you already mentioned no or very little weight training. Or else what, they should eat below maintenance and wait an eternity for the fat to come off?

No offence, but if your avatar is current, it looks like you sure could use some cardio as well.

Since when do I said anything about cutting doesn't need to do weight training?

Below is my post that you said is totally wrong.

This post addressing TS post that do fat people need to bulk first or cutting first and I merely give my opinion about the size of the fat people if they are thinking of bulking instead of cutting. I never discussed about cutting that doesn't need weight training or do full cardio or eating in calorie deficit whatsoever.

Fat people doesn't need to bulk especially beginners because as you said they use their fat to build muscle (if weight training involved) and the beginners advantage. If that so, why do they need to bulk?

When did I say they need to bulk?

They don't need to cut either. That's a sure fire way to fail. Cutting is hard - even for advanced bodybuilders, never mind fat people that are just beginning to learn how to eat properly and starting working out. They need a good, filling diet if they are going to work hard in the gym and keep their mind of the sweets and mcdonalds. You ever cut before while still working out hard? Physically draining and tiring, can't imagine what it will be like for a beginner, with serious DOMS and body aches as well.......and not enough nutrition to recover properly.

They need to do a proper recomp - which will give them the best results. Eat right, at or just sliiiiightly below maintenance and push hard in the gym.

Also, fat people, their body weight and leverage allows them to ramp up to heavier weights - much smarter than doing a cut and then only focus on strength.

So if you don't cut, then you do what?

Thanks for your idea! Last few weeks was consuming carrots + meat balls continuously.
Think need to revise my dinner menu again and cut off meats even more @ dinner..

Recomp.

Simple. Eat till full but clean up diet - no fast food and no sweets (or replace sweets with diet coke).

Work out as hard as you can in the gym - make sure increase the weights every week. Stay away from stupid programs like Starting Strength.

????

Profit.

Very bad idea.

You should take some meat - or at least some protein: whey, eggs, etc.

Cut off carbo. No cereals. No potatoes. Less fruits (or none).

Lots of green veg. Romaine Lettuce, Celery, Kai Lan, Spinach.

If really craving buy one box cherry tomatoes.

I do eat eggs, fruits like oranges everyday, why would you suggest me to take less fruit? Can let me know?
Cherry tomatoes? Oh my favorite.

Just to be clear here. What exactly do you do different when cutting?

Read up on insulin sensitivity. Supersets and circuits for beginners? Why? Please don't say they burn the most cals. What's the point of not restricting calories when you burn them off afterwards? Why didn't you suggest cardio? Why is starting strength bad?

Where's your pic?

So with this advice, obese people can lose weight?

1. I guess you missed the point that obese people are getting fat because of their lust. Eat clean but till full? Worse advice ever to an obese guy Have you been fat before?
2. Doesn't matter how clean you are eating but if you eat until you exceed your TDEE, that would be calorie surplus and calorie surplus leads to....
3. If you are going to deflect point no. 3 with the 'eat till full but clean', refer to point no. 1

Calorie-restrictive diet.
Caloric counting
Fad diets like keto or paleo (admittedly paleo is not really a "fad" and can work but may be hard to maintain in KL)

1) Supersets and circuit training are great for beginners as they allow maximum volume of work for the lowered strength of a new trainee.
2) Starting strength is the dumbest program known to man. Want to look better nekkid? The answer: definitely not squat 3x a week and gain lots of imbalances (no back work? LOL. No hamstring work? LOL)
3) No pics. There are people who know me IRL on the forum so I want to ensure my privacy - however, I train at darklight's gym (when I'm in KL, fly around a bit) and have met him in person. You're welcome to send me a PM to meet up too - to vouch if I really know about training or just talk crap on the Net.

Fruit has lots of fructose, which is a sugar. It is not conducive for weight loss.

This post has been edited by joeblows: Jun 13 2013, 10:55 AM

1) Yes I have. The whole gamut. Skinny in high school. Fat as fvck in Uni. Then now mesomorph look.
If I show you my drivers license then you can see how fat I was. Double chin and everything.

2) Eat until full =/= caloric surplus.
Also, your TDEE is increasing steadily = more work load in the gym, more muscle mass, more caloric expenditure.

In the end - caloric surplus on Day 1 doesnt mean (and probably won't be) caloric surplus on Day 60 or Day 120.

Furthermore if one eats CLEAN its very hard to overeat. On the other hand if one cuts calories, undisciplined people will be very tempted to binge eat sweets after a certain period.

3) Refer to point no. 1.

If I eat every single night before sleep, not good for health ?