i make a deal on buying a hp from 1 of our forumer here.on friday 7/4/06 during cod he stated the phone got 1% problem which the keypad is not functioning well.he at first claim tat there might be a dust under the keypad. so i agree to take the hp since i also tot its a minor problem.as after nego he agree to reduce only rm10 of the price.which he give to me rm650. so it cost now 640. so rm10 discount for the repairing. he give me a warranty of 3 days which end last monday. 2 days back.

the next day which is on saturday 8/7/06,i went to the service center to fix the problem.because the problem became more worse.for 10 trial of pressing maybe 1 only succesd. so at the center they claim its because of the faulty keypad board. and they estimate about rm150 for changing the board. so i sms the seller and say tat this is the problem.a faulty board.

the seller say he dunt know anything and he say tat it does not cover in the warranty he gave, and he also say tat is not his problem since i take the phone and know about the so call 1% problem. now its not only 1% since its a board problem and it coz me more than rm100 to fix it. i try to nego with him about the fixing price. i even willing offer him to pay 50-50 for the cost of fixing it. but the seller say he dunt want to pay anything. so i need advice on this. as i think im been cheat in a way.

i will tell the name of the forumer later.since if can i want to settle this outside and dunt want to make it an issue in lyt.

for me, as a buyer/seller he or she should know the responsibility of selling their stuff. they should take care of their customer.



unix11t.
member since 2003.

as advice by the mod and staff

this is the thread.
http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopic=269116&hl=xphone

seller : DFlo
buyer : unix11t

item : xphone 2
price : rm640 after rm10 discount for repair

problem : the problem getting worse, service center at times square say it was a
faulty board. cost of fixing it is rm150. change the boards.




> Personal Warranty Guideline in LYN Trading

I have seen alot of forummers being in trouble even if there is personal warranty. I have also been a victim of this as well because the term Personal Warranty seems to be misused in this forum. Anyway, i would like to create a guideline for personal warranty, as it what it does and what it means.

1. Personal warranty(PW) time is set by the seller. A usual warranty period is 1 week. Some maybe more, but it should be stated by the seller

2. The PW does not cover any physical abused items by the buyer within the period.

3. If within the PW period, the buyer found there is a problem with the item even if it was checked in the sellers place. The buyer still have the right to request a FULL refund. There is no such thing as refund part of the value payed by giving some excuses like, the selller go post office..petrol bla bla bla..becoz of that i only refund you 80%.

4. If the Seller doesn't want to refund and insist on sending to RMA, he can do so with the aggrement of the Buyer. The RMA number or any document that prove the item was RMA should be given to the Buyer immediately so that you can keep the Buyer's confidence. The Sellers have to absorb any RMA charges.

5. Shipped items may be prone to damages. This is covered in Sellers PW as well. If the item received is DOA or the package badly damaged until item is effected. The buyer still do have to right to get a FULL refund. The seller should ls liable to pack the item in a proper box before it was shipped.

This post has been edited by unix11t: Apr 12 2006, 07:39 PM

hmm...this is a tough case cause you knew about the keypad problem before buying the HP. He did told you about the problem but quoting it as "1%" is rather subjective. Also, no such things as fixing a HP cost only RM10. Even update firmware also cost more I think. You shouldn't have accepted the phone knowing that it has problems unless you are very sure you can fix it at certain price.

Eventhough it is under PW, but you already negotiated with the seller about this "1%" problem. Money has been deducted as well. It's your fault that you thought that this problem can be solved with RM10.

as this thing is already happened, one thing for sure is u can do nothing if the seller dun wan to negotiate at all..

as my advise, plz be careful when buying used stuffs from any internet forum.. not just lowyat.net. try to do COD if u can and make sure to check the item seriously. and if the seller said there is problem even minor problem, try to call any person u know that has knowledge in that area and asked how much should the repair for that item cost u.

and if u dun have any, maybe can try arrange cod at lowyat (for pc stuffs) or in this case at handphone shop so that u can straight away ask that shop bout the problem, in front the seller..

so the seller cant 'lepas tangan' for the problem since u still not bring the item back home..

this is just my advise, by the way it doesnt matter what precautions do we take, when doing any internet trade, u cant guarantee urself free from any risk.

cheers and good luck~!

1. If problem happends within 3 days of warranty , u can claim from him ( since he did not say wat covers for the warranty )

2. Another alternative if he could not come out with the amount of repair , u both can negotiate either 50-50 payment to be done (u happy i happy status)

3. He shouldn't say its 1% minor problem as this would mislead the buyer to buy it confidently. This consider lying.

Actually this case is very simple , just to see whether the seller want to solve for u or not~ if he wants to continue his business and taking care of his reputation, he should solve this matter with the buyer asap~

If im the seller , i would ask for your receipt of repair from nokia centre and i would have a " win win situation " then this case is rest~

i willing to send him the receipt. but tat only solve if he agree to have 50 50.

I think the problem is more than 1%. But since you already negotiate the 1% which amount to RM10, its a hard case here. But the seller should be more responsible and share the cost of fixing it. It might be the case that the seller already know that problem and wanna get rid of it as quick as possible.

there's no such thing as % when it comes to problem (or scratches.....or worn out......)



well as for this part - IMO it doesn't hold water IF the seller doesn't state any 'warranty coverage' in the first place. and also if there was no AGREEMENT before the deal.

seller, if you're reading this - for your name sake - just be kind enough to fork out 50% of the repair charges.

if you don't want, then just refund and bring back the phone. or something........ after all, when the goods you sell is faulty - you have to be responsible.

Do not do unto others as you expect they should do unto you.

This post has been edited by goldfries: Apr 13 2006, 08:24 AM

still no feedback by the seller................

For all of you guys' info, I'm the seller.

1. Yes, I did state that there's only 1% of a problem.
My defence: When we did the COD, he tested out the phone for nearly 2 hours (about 6pm to about 8pm). And what I knew about the problem, I told him.

2. No, I didn't know what exactly was the problem.
My defence: BUT I did tell him that it's the rubber thingy. (You see, when you press down on the navigation button, the two top buttons won't be responsive. But when you press up, everything's fine again.)

3. I don't know what unix11t's trying to do here.
SMS #1 (11:53am, 9/Apr/2006): Alo bro the hp ok with me.juz tat nw it always reset the clock n date.y is tis hapen?the cost of repair the keypad is RM150.yesterday i check at o2center.

SMS #x (7:53pm, 10/Apr/2006): I went to da shop already.they sat 4days.2day price quote n 2day repair.estimate rm150.change the board.hard push also cant at times.how.any place cheap repair.

If you look closely, in the first SMS, he stated repairing the keypad. Then, he stated change the board. You treating this as a game?

I told you everything I knew about the phone, I even discounted further for you to do the repairs, you took it, and you want me to pay you 50% for the repairs? Nice idea.

edit: Come on, trade enforcers. I want to hear your opinions on this.

Regards.

This post has been edited by DFlo: Apr 13 2006, 10:37 AM

For your information, I did tell the buyer on what exactly the problem is. He accepted it and when he asked for a discount, I gave him (nevermind that the phone was already selling on a cheap price.) He accepted it already. Done deal.

So now, you are trying to tell me that I should refund him or pay 50% of the repair charges because he doesn't like the phone after all and he feel that he shouldn't have bought it? Wow. Can I buy any of your faulty products then? Sell it to me cheap, and the next day I'll ask for either a full refund or a 50% on the repair charges.

Please do what you stated on your last line. No offence, brother. Thanks.

Regards.

Was about to PM you asking if you want my L7, but sigh, big let down eh?

Do you actually mean that by giving in and share the cost of the repairs I'll be responsible? Refer to the post above.

No offence, brother.

Regards.

This post has been edited by DFlo: Apr 13 2006, 10:39 AM

Let down? No I don't think so. Let's just see who's doing what.

Regards.

By the way, if I gone "MIA" later, I'll most probably be back in here by tonight.

DFlo, you haven't answered that part regarding what i quoted.

unix11t said the seller say he dunt know anything and he say tat it does not cover in the warranty he gave.
my POV well as for this part - IMO it doesn't hold water IF the seller doesn't state any 'warranty coverage' in the first place. and also if there was no AGREEMENT before the deal.

so i'd like to hear your defence on this part. try to provide more details on this 'coverage' thingy. did you tell the seller about the 'coverage' before-hand?

see, when i posted the above. i see it this way - the user accepted the problem as it is. but later it turned worse. IMO that's the purpose of personal warranty, to protect buyer (* conditions apply...)

it's like buying from a shop, sometimes use 3 days then only some thing kick up. how would you feel if the shop doesn't accept responsibility of the goods sold?

so now the phone got problem, you not willing to refund. not willing to help out a bit in repair - then what exactly does your personal warranty cover?

Alright goldfries, very simple. My warranty will cover whatever stuffs which do not act normal.
My definition of normal is: How the phone is acting when I'm using it.

For example, let's say 1 day unix11t is using the phone and suddenly the screen was blinking or if the whole keypad became non-responsive or if he couldn't call out or recieve calls, then I'll definitely do something about it.

But the key problem is clearly stated. If not clearly in my thread,I told him for about 2 hours when we did the COD. Isn't that enough? I did my part and he did his.

edit: What say you, goldfries?

This post has been edited by DFlo: Apr 13 2006, 11:00 AM

ok. thank you for your reply.

(please, take not that being a trade-enforcer DOES NOT mean that we are like 'oh-so-god-like' where our words have to be 100% perfect - and neither are we solution providers. we're just humans, trying to help out one another. ok?)

for me, i see it as such. though the key problem was stated, the condition at present was not what was stated as it had worsened. which in my book, falls under what you've mentioned earlier.

definitely the phone is not acting like how the phone is acting when I'm using it. cos that was the condition he agreed on.

ok la my POV done. some times when 2 parties at logger-heads - external views could help. all in all how to settle the matter is still between you and unix11t.

I understand, goldfries, I just want this to go on as transparent as I can.

Rule #1: The moderators are not here to resolve your disputes, neither are they here to help you out. This subforum is for you to resolve your disputes in an organised and easy to follow manner.

I deeply appreciate your help, goldfries.

And no I mean offence on anybody, I'm just defending myself.

Thanks.

Anyway, I'm going offline now. I'll be back.

seller : i think the best is that u take back the hp and refund ( for both good sake )

for alternative solution :-

dont wan to coz more trouble here~ if u keep on defending for urself it wont help u to solve this problem. Customer always right. If your keypad/board doesnt have problem , your customer wont grumble here n there.

You did stated 3 DAYS WARRANTY for your client and if the problem happends within 3 DAYS of your personal WARRANTY then u better quickly solve this for your client. Since your client so good that he willing to open his wallet and pay ( 50-50 ) on ur behalf ( to be honest the buyer doesnt require to pay 1 cent during your 3 DAYS personal warranty )

Please be responsible and sporting thanks~ just my 2 cents~

This is really a hard case to settle because both party also have their reasons. I think it's best that both party discuss this over and try to compromise a solution. This is because PW and terms & conditions was not discussed properly.

One question that this raise up is, does PW includes defects due to another defects that has been settled?

Example here would be, minor keypad problem which already been negotiated by both party and agreed to deduct RM10. Later, withing PW period, the defect got worse up to unbearable condition. Is this worse condition covered under PW?

This is yes and no. Really hard to decide. You need human intepretation to decide depending on circumstances.

NO when HDD got 1 bad sector then later 10 bad sectors crops up. Cause it is common that when 1 bad sector occur, a lot will follow.

For eg, YES when screen have 1 dead pixel. Later, 5 more dead pixels came up.

Yet, this is still very debatable. Because the dead pixel could be due to problems on display chip or the board which if someone knowledgable knows will say no warranty or something.

So, it really comes down to having good faith with the deal.

No offence bro, just wanna ask DFlo.

Where did you get the RM10 repair cost from? Which shop quoted you that price? Just send unix11t there.

If there's no quote from any shop and the RM10 repair cost is based on your own assumption, then it's your fault.

Customer always right?

I think we must clarify wat is the real problem here.
The seller already told the buyer the phone got SPECIFIC problem and he accepted it nicely. Its a mutual agreement between the two of them. If not why is he selling at such low price, RM640? He could have jack up the price.
The seller already tested kaw kaw for 2 hours, not enuf?
Lesson to be learn is cheap stuff no good, good stuff no cheap.
just my another 2 cents here. no offence bros

yup... im behind Dflo... coz I always practice D.O.A. Dead on Arrival... buyer has tested it kaw kaw and already agreed to take the phone AS-IS...

and who knows what happened to the phone...1 day or even 1 hour after the transaction??

i was thinking about this case just now when driving..........

now i'm having some 2nd thoughts on what i said "seller, if you're reading this - for your name sake - just be kind enough to fork out 50% of the repair charges. "

why the 2nd thoughts?

here's why - IF the goods suddenly turned BAD. then unix11t should infrom Dflo straightaway and decide on next best move.

it's NOT FAIR for Dflo to pay any part of the repair charges as he did not have any agreement regarding sending for repairs.




and that is why he's complaining lor, cos now the phone is not AS-IS in the agreed condition. it went worse........

now it the phone went worse - that's where the personal warranty comes in IMO, but apparently anyone could easily finger the buyer and ignore the PW - that would be very convenient.



that's why in the end the buyer and seller have to negotiate already lor.

i think in this situation there's not only 1 to be blamed. as a seller sure u wont accept refund coz u already let the buyer know the problem and let him test it kaw kaw..

as a buyer surely u felt cheated coz the problem is not like the problem u appear during the 2 hrs test..

so the best thing is both of u slow talk and try to find a mid way.. help each other.

As I say earlier, if failed to show the quotation for repair cost of RM10, then it's the seller fault. Can be accused as fraud.

If seller is right, then I can simply assume any repair cost and sell all my faulty things lor.

suiteng, the buyer said the following............

as after nego he agree to reduce only rm10 of the price.which he give to me rm650. so it cost now 640. so rm10 discount for the repairing.

in which part of the 1st post did he mention that the seller say that repair cost is RM 10? what as mentioned is that the seller GAVE DISCOUNT of RM 10 discount for repairing of the part - it's like him chipping in RM 10 for the repair like that.

get it?

I don't agree with you on this. The seller already told the buyer about this problem and the buyer AGREED to take the item with RM10 as the deduction for repair. Buyer's lack of knowledge in repair fee is not the seller's problem. Seller also banked on this lack of knowledge sold it to him (intentionally or unintentionally). As a seller, he also want to sell his product. He might not be 100% honest here but hey..find me one seller in lowyat plaza that is 100% honest.

Moreover, we are talking about 2nd hand products here. Don't compare it with buying new products. It's totally different.

End of the day, both side is at fault.

ok sorry for the late reply since i juz got back from class.




than whut the perpose of the seller giving PW. DOA only apply when u do postage.

in this case, what i telling is that the problem is getting worse.

for what reason i willing to 50 50 with the seller if i dunt like the phone.

first of all, the problem as stated is the keypad not responsive at times and have to 1 time press up and then ok,but now altho pushing up, the keypad also not responsive later have to push push few times and with luck it manage to press the button.. the seller say its the rubber thingy in this thread, but when i bring to the o2 center they say it is a board problem.

for example.. u buy a car,the seller say aircon not cold due to gas finish.then u go to workshop they check and it was a faulty compresser.

whut do u feel. as at first u take the seller word saying its only a gas problem. now its a hardware problem. which will cost u quite alot.

do u think the price tat i get is consider cheap? rm640 with problem.

when u do the math 640+150= 790. i can get xphone2m for tat price.

first the reason i get this phone is because we were there already. and i belive tat it was only a keypad problem which can settle easily at the center and wont cost much.
but suprisely the center say it a board problem.how sad.

I agree to repair the keypad not repair the board. if the problem is because of the rubber. i wont post thos thread and make an issue out if it.


IMO the best way to settle this is by 50 50 fixing the problem or if the seller want the hp back juz refund me. as for me, both party is fault since i get the phone and the seller didnt know the real problem with his phone. so its a win win situation for both me and the seller. he is a good person but by having this issue it will not be nice.

p/s: wanna share with u. when in 2004 i sold a grafic card to a forumer here. i do cod with him. 3 days PW. then on the third day the buyer msg me saying the card burn already. i understand its hard to refund back the money. but what i do is, i refund back as its my responsibility to refund him since the stuff i sold got problem withing the PW period.have to take care of our customer maa.. Now in my case im willing to part with the seller to 50 50 repair it.


the actual time i tested was 1 hour. the rest is talking bout other thing and looking at the motorola v3 the seller wanna sell it.

and i was there not even 2 hours.
i pay my parking ticket for 1 1/2 hour.

and bro im not looking to eat up ur money or make play games. its juz i dunt feel satisfy with the way u do your after sales. its juz show how profesional are u in dealing with this kind of problem.

think bout it.

This post has been edited by unix11t: Apr 13 2006, 07:49 PM

[quote=vladimir,Apr 13 2006, 12:00 PM]
seller : i think the best is that u take back the hp and refund ( for both good sake )

for alternative solution :-

dont wan to coz more trouble here~ if u keep on defending for urself it wont help u to solve this problem. Customer always right. If your keypad/board doesnt have problem , your customer wont grumble here n there.

You did stated 3 DAYS WARRANTY for your client and if the problem happends within 3 DAYS of your personal WARRANTY then u better quickly solve this for your client. Since your client so good that he willing to open his wallet and pay ( 50-50 ) on ur behalf ( to be honest the buyer doesnt require to pay 1 cent during your 3 DAYS personal warranty )

Please be responsible and sporting thanks~ just my 2 cents~

[/quote]
Thank you for your views, vladimir, they're deeply appreciated.

First of all, the sentence "Customer always right." is not quite true in this case.

Why am I saying this?
#1: I stated the problem.

#2: If it wasn't stated absolutely clearly, it would have been when we did the COD. For nearly two hours, don't tell me that the buyer can't realise what sort of problem it is and how big the risk is?

#3: I've already did the discount. For what? For my customer to do the repair. It's not fair if I sell a faulty second hand Nokia 6680 at RM1150, right?

#4: If customer is always right, why don't you sell me the things you want to sell, at a cheap price and I return to you the next day (or any other day inside the warranty period?) and ask for either a full refund or a 50% repair claim? I'd be good (according to your quote) right?

edit #1: What do you actually mean by "if u keep on defending for urself it wont help u to solve this problem"?

Are you trying to tell me: "Aiyah, no need to argue lah. Argue for what? He right la." ?

Please think before speaking/typing.

No offence, brother.

[quote=abubin,Apr 13 2006, 12:18 PM]
This is really a hard case to settle because both party also have their reasons. I think it's best that both party discuss this over and try to compromise a solution. This is because PW and terms & conditions was not discussed properly.

One question that this raise up is, does PW includes defects due to another defects that has been settled?

Example here would be, minor keypad problem which already been negotiated by both party and agreed to deduct RM10. Later, withing PW period, the defect got worse up to unbearable condition. Is this worse condition covered under PW?

This is yes and no. Really hard to decide. You need human intepretation to decide depending on circumstances.

NO when HDD got 1 bad sector then later 10 bad sectors crops up. Cause it is common that when 1 bad sector occur, a lot will follow.

For eg, YES when screen have 1 dead pixel. Later, 5 more dead pixels came up.

Yet, this is still very debatable. Because the dead pixel could be due to problems on display chip or the board which if someone knowledgable knows will say no warranty or something.

So, it really comes down to having good faith with the deal.

[/quote]
Thank you for your views, abubin, they're deeply appreciated.

[quote=suiteng,Apr 13 2006, 12:18 PM]
No offence bro, just wanna ask DFlo.

Where did you get the RM10 repair cost from? Which shop quoted you that price? Just send unix11t there.

If there's no quote from any shop and the RM10 repair cost is based on your own assumption, then it's your fault.

[/quote]
Thank you for your views, suiteng, they're deeply appreciated.

I did not state that I can get a repair at RM10 for anywhere.

My point: OK, since you (unix11t) 're prepared to do the repairs, and you really want that phone, I'll give you an extra discount of RM10.

No offence, brother/sister.

[quote=gary_cheah85,Apr 13 2006, 12:28 PM]
Customer always right?

I think we must clarify wat is the real problem here.
The seller already told the buyer the phone got SPECIFIC problem and he accepted it nicely. Its a mutual agreement between the two of them. If not why is he selling at such low price, RM640? He could have jack up the price.
The seller already tested kaw kaw for 2 hours, not enuf?
Lesson to be learn is cheap stuff no good, good stuff no cheap.
just my another 2 cents here. no offence bros

[/quote]
Thank you for your views, gary_cheah85, they're deeply appreciated.

[quote=fariq_azad,Apr 13 2006, 02:09 PM]
yup... im behind Dflo... coz I always practice D.O.A. Dead on Arrival... buyer has tested it kaw kaw and already agreed to take the phone AS-IS...

and who knows what happened to the phone...1 day or even 1 hour after the transaction??

[/quote]
Thank you for your views, fariq_azad, they're deeply appreciated.

Exactly, I won't even know how the phone was being handled.

[quote=goldfries,Apr 13 2006, 02:45 PM]
i was thinking about this case just now when driving..........

now i'm having some 2nd thoughts on what i said "seller, if you're reading this - for your name sake - just be kind enough to fork out 50% of the repair charges. "

why the 2nd thoughts?

here's why - IF the goods suddenly turned BAD. then unix11t should infrom Dflo straightaway and decide on next best move.

it's NOT FAIR for Dflo to pay any part of the repair charges as he did not have any agreement regarding sending for repairs.
and that is why he's complaining lor, cos now the phone is not AS-IS in the agreed condition. it went worse........

now it the phone went worse - that's where the personal warranty comes in IMO, but apparently anyone could easily finger the buyer and ignore the PW - that would be very convenient.
that's why in the end the buyer and seller have to negotiate already lor.

[/quote]
Thank you for your views, goldfries, they're deeply appreciated.

[quote=irenic,Apr 13 2006, 03:06 PM]
i think in this situation there's not only 1 to be blamed. as a seller sure u wont accept refund coz u already let the buyer know the problem and let him test it kaw kaw..

as a buyer surely u felt cheated coz the problem is not like the problem u appear during the 2 hrs test..

so the best thing is both of u slow talk and try to find a mid way.. help each other.

[/quote]
Thank you for your views, irenic, they're deeply appreciated.


[quote=suiteng,Apr 13 2006, 03:22 PM]
As I say earlier, if failed to show the quotation for repair cost of RM10, then it's the seller fault. Can be accused as fraud.

If seller is right, then I can simply assume any repair cost and sell all my faulty things lor.

[/quote]
Thank you for your views, suiteng, they're deeply appreciated.

I believe I've made myself clear on your previous post.

[quote=goldfries,Apr 13 2006, 03:26 PM]
suiteng, the buyer said the following............

as after nego he agree to reduce only rm10 of the price.which he give to me rm650. so it cost now 640. so rm10 discount for the repairing.

in which part of the 1st post did he mention that the seller say that repair cost is RM 10? what as mentioned is that the seller GAVE DISCOUNT of RM 10 discount for repairing of the part - it's like him chipping in RM 10 for the repair like that.

get it?

[/quote]
Thank you for the defence, goldfries, they're deeply appreciated.

[quote=abubin,Apr 13 2006, 03:29 PM]
I don't agree with you on this. The seller already told the buyer about this problem and the buyer AGREED to take the item with RM10 as the deduction for repair. Buyer's lack of knowledge in repair fee is not the seller's problem. Seller also banked on this lack of knowledge sold it to him (intentionally or unintentionally). As a seller, he also want to sell his product. He might not be 100% honest here but hey..find me one seller in lowyat plaza that is 100% honest.

Moreover, we are talking about 2nd hand products here. Don't compare it with buying new products. It's totally different.

End of the day, both side is at fault.

[/quote]
Thank you for your two cents, abubin, they're deeply appreciated.

Thank you for bringing up a good point here, abubin.

I admit, I don't really know the exact problem. But in my explanation during the COD, I did not say that it's 100% this or that problem. I use the term "might".

[quote=unix11t,Apr 13 2006, 03:57 PM]
ok sorry for the late reply since i juz got back from class.
than whut the perpose of the seller giving PW. DOA only apply when u do postage.

in this case, what i telling is that the problem is getting worse.

for what reason i willing to 50 50 with the seller if i dunt like the phone.

first of all, the problem as stated is the keypad not responsive at times and have to 1 time press up and then ok,but now altho pushing up, the keypad also not responsive later have to push push few times and with luck it manage to press the button.. the seller say its the rubber thingy in this thread, but when i bring to the o2 center they say it is a board problem.

for example.. u buy a car,the seller say aircon not cold due to gas finish.then u go to workshop they check and it was a faulty compresser.

whut do u feel. as at first u take the seller word saying its only a gas problem. now its a hardware problem. which will cost u quite alot.

do u think the price tat i get is consider cheap? rm640 with problem.

when u do the math 640+150= 790. i can get xphone2m for tat price.

first the reason i get this phone is because we were there already. and i belive tat it was only a keypad problem which can settle easily at the center and wont cost much.
but suprisely the center say it a board problem.how sad.

I agree to repair the keypad not repair the board. if the problem is because of the rubber. i wont post thos thread and make an issue out if it.
IMO the best way to settle this is by 50 50 fixing the problem or if the seller want the hp back juz refund me. as for me, both party is fault since i get the phone and the seller didnt know the real problem with his phone. so its a win win situation for both me and the seller. he is a good person but by having this issue it will not be nice.

p/s: wanna share with u. when in 2004 i sold a grafic card to a forumer here. i do cod with him. 3 days PW. then on the third day the buyer msg me saying the card burn already. i understand its hard to refund back the money. but what i do is, i refund back as its my responsibility to refund him since the stuff i sold got problem withing the PW period.have to take care of our customer maa.. Now in my case im willing to part with the seller to 50 50 repair it.
the actual time i tested was 1 hour. the rest is talking bout other thing and looking at the motorola v3 the seller wanna sell it.

and i was there not even 2 hours.
i pay my parking ticket for 1 1/2 hour.

and bro im not looking to eat up ur money or make play games. its juz i dunt feel satisfy with the way u do your after sales. its juz show how profesional are u in dealing with this kind of problem.

think bout it.

[/quote]
Alright, my purpose of my personal warranty is clearly stated in page 1.

You keep saying that you can get a new phone at RM790. But you should have known, that this phone is NOT at its personal best (100%). You should have did the maths at home. I'm here to sell. I explain whatever I know about the phone, and be as honest as I can. I don't want to sell the phone and go back worrying. I believe in what I do, I get it back.

You believe that it was a keypad problem. That was what I believed too. You're actually taking a risk, do you know that? As a faulty phone buyer, I know what risks are. It'll mean that what you think might not be the reality. Ask my faulty phone sellers, did I open up the phone and check each and every parts? (e.g. Oh no, lower the price because this I.C. is missing or whatever.)

I'm quite impressed by your concept of personal warranty. Your client bought the card, and on the third day it burnt and you refunded him back? I think that's very ridiculous but since you said that you did it, I'm impressed. But no, sorry, I don't practise this unfair personal warranty.

Please take note that I said near two hours at the very beginning.

And, talking about professionalism.

By the way, I'm going to upload two pictures regarding the SMS thing which I stated in page 1.

This post has been edited by DFlo: Apr 13 2006, 11:48 PM

At first keypad, and then board?

Which to trust?


Attached thumbnail(s)

And for those who haven't given their views and wish to do so, please feel free to drop in your ideas but I suggest you read and understand everything before posting to avoid giving out misleading information.

Thank you everyone.

This post has been edited by DFlo: Apr 14 2006, 12:01 AM

Alright i think we can help decide who's at fault with some simple questions :

1) Did the seller say "Oh the key is sometimes unresponsive because of the keypad, it's pretty cheap to repair" or did he say "I'm not sure what the problem is, but i think it's the keypad la, got dust or something"
Well of course i dont mean in those exact words but did he tell u that he knows its the keypad problem, or it's just his guess?

2) You tested the phone for 2 hours and was happy with the keypad. When u went home it suddenly got worst?
How do u think the seller made it such that it only lasted good for that period of time?

This post has been edited by KilJim: Apr 14 2006, 01:33 AM

Well, for answer #1, I told him it might be the keypad, since if you push the navigation key down for a few times, the two top buttons (below the screen) become non-responsive. BUT when you push up, it's becomes normal again. It's like the rubber or something gets displaced. Push it up, good to go again. I definitely did not give him a 100% answer.

For answer #2, only unix11t (the buyer) knows what was going on. I really can't understand.

This post has been edited by DFlo: Apr 14 2006, 02:02 AM

Signing off for now. Will be back later.

I think I'm behind Dflo in this since it has been clarified thoroughly.

Buying a faulty phone doesn't mean the seller award you with a "perfect phone" warranty.

ok let me make u under stand whut the problem.

when cod tat day. i tested the thing and it have the non responsive problem as the seller stated. than after taking the seller words which he say might be a dust or a rubber problem. i took the phone and ask for a discount due to the problem. the seller dunt want to give discount at the first place. than later he only wan to give discount for rm 10. i accept it and thinking that the problem is like stated by the seller.

when using the phone , the problem occur more rapidly and at times it cant event response.so i went to the service center to check it up and wanted to repair the problem. i was shocked at the service center as they say the problem is because of the board. not like stated by the seller which is the rubber or dust under it.

so now i know the problem is the board not the rubber thinggy or dust as claim by seller.

i didnt test the phone for the solid 2 hour.estimated 1 hour. i pay my parking ticket for 1 1/2 hour. how do i been there longer then 1 1/2 hour?




i tested it for the whole nite. and still tested it for the rest of the day(saturday before go to the service center at 6pm) the problem getting worse.maybe its not my luck the thing get worse. is not like when i went back,i simply make the phone worse. what is the point i go and do cod with the seller.travel so far juz to get a phone and spoil it. pay for the parking and went tru traffic and rain juz for it.

whut im saying is that, the goods tat the seller sold is getting worse. the problem is worse compare at the time he sells it to me. and the service center stated its was a faulty board. which is not stated by the seller when we do the deal. and i contact the seller and let him know the problem within the PW period.

if i know at the first place it was a faulty board. i would not buy the phone.i buy because the seller manage to convince me its was a dust problem or the rubber problem.

so may i ask u.

1.what the point of giving personal warranty?

2.whut actually do u cover in your PW? (the phone cant turn on then u cover?mayb tat time u say im making it cannot turn on)

3.Why dont u check the actual problem in the first place.(u make ppl confuse when they find out the real problem)

4.on what condition will you cover your PW???

5. what kind of ways will u cover your PW??(refund/repair)



by the way when u read this guideline PW inlowyat thread you will notice in sentect 3
http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopic=260354





i appreciated all the forumer comment. i try to solve this matter asap with the seller. if and only if the seller be more tolerate.

no point we comment so much already. everyone expressed their opinion.

IMO both of you have your points, i understand both sides but at this point it is difficult to actually say who's right and who's wrong.

up to both of you to negotiate something you can agree on.

for me - i see it that if personal warranty does not cover detriorated phone condition - what else does it cover?

ok laaa just a bit more from me...

Buying faulty phone = always risky
Agreed to buy faulty phone = accept the consequences
Faulty phone = BOTH dont know what the ACTUAL problem is...

so faulty phone = RM 640
err unfaulty second phone = RM 850 (lets just say) (I really dont know the market price for second Xphone2)

so if repair cost = RM 10 = 850 -640 -10 = buyer untung 200
so if repair cost = RM 60 = 850 -640 -60 = buyer untung 150
so if repair cost = RM 150 = 850 -640 -150 = buyer untung 60

err just a matter of getting a very very good deal for the phone or just a little good deal from it...

err can look at it this way ah?

respects to both parties

This post has been edited by fariq_azad: Apr 14 2006, 02:34 PM

dear fariq_azad,

its not a 6680. its a xphone2


i respect all of the comment that all of u gave. hope i and the seller can manage to get a solution on this.

hope can settle this soon.

Thank you for your views, blinky, they're deeply appreciated.

I'd like to make myself VERY clear again.

#1: I've already told you the problem.

#2: You assumed that the repair fees won't cost as much. If I knew it'd be RM150, I'll definitely tell you. No point making my name stink just because of not being honest in that.

#3: My personal warranty covers whatever that doesn't act normally when in your hands.
-My definition of normal here is whatever that happens when in my hands.
-For example, you use the phone halfway and the phone suddenly restarts.
Or, you use the phone halfway and buzzer emits unusual sounds.
Or, you use the phone halfway and the speaker doesn't work.
There's where my personal warranty for 3 days come into picture.

BUT you can't come to me when you use the phone halfway and the keypad suddenly becomes non-responsive. Why? Simply because both of us are very sure that this is already a problem.

Furthermore, you said that you wanted to fix it. Fine, I discount another RM10.

For your question #3, I think you should have checked it more thoroughly before you deal with me. For me, I won't trust any sellers. I just trust myself. Anyway, do you actually know that you are taking a risk at that time by assuring yourself that it's not that the repair costs won't be that expensive afterall?

I think that to go back to a seller for a product that had its condition deteriorated when it's condition isn't 100% to start with is just unreasonable.

It's like you buy a sick dog back to your home, and 3 days later, you found out that the treatment and medicine fees are blood-sucking, and you go back to the shop and demand for a full refund/50% share of the fees, citing the huge amount of money and its becoming even sicker?

Sorry, my English isn't good, but I do hope I've got my point across.

Thank you for your views, goldfries, they're deeply appreciated.

Anyway, I hope my explanation above will satisfy your question.

Thank you for your views, fariq_azad, they're deeply appreciated.

Anyway, just to clarify, I did not sell a Nokia 6680. I sold an O2 Xphone II.

Oops sorry for my mess this should be real post..

Buying faulty phone = always risky
Agreed to buy faulty phone = accept the consequences
Faulty phone = BOTH dont know what the ACTUAL problem is...

so faulty phone = RM 640
err unfaulty second phone = RM 800 (lets just say this is the usual second price for Xphone2)

so if repair cost = RM 10 = 800 -640 -10 = buyer untung 150
so if repair cost = RM 60 = 800 -640 -60 = buyer untung 100
so if repair cost = RM 150 = 800 -640 -150 = buyer untung 10

err just a matter of getting a very very good deal for the phone or just a little good deal from it...

err can look at it this way ah?

sorry for my mistake..

This post has been edited by fariq_azad: Apr 14 2006, 02:39 PM

DFlo's got a point there - the problem was there already and the buyer already had the intention of getting it fixed...........without knowing the price of the repair.

Thank you for your views, fariq_azad, they're deeply appreciated.

And no worries about the mistake, partly my fault for giving a misleading example.

Thank you for your views, goldfries, they're deeply appreciated.

Signing off for now. Will be back later.

Ah... now we got the full picture of what's happening here. Let's just leave it to the buyer-seller to settle. We have given enough views

well, since this thread is not officially closed i might want to add some things to the buyer.

1. O2 repair cost is NEVER cheap. Even to change my XDA II casing it cost me S$ 160 (yes, i asked in singapore).

2. Even if you tested it for 1 hour (instead of 2 hours as the seller claimed), you should have a very good picture about soon-to-be-your phone. I tried to re-read and understand the thread where DFlo made his offer and he said "Some dust inside I'd say" which shows his uncertainties.

3. The buyer have mentioned that it works 99% of the time and the problem occur only 1% of the time. I think during that 1 hour you should've pressed the troubled button for quite a numerous time and if you find that the figure 1% is exaggerated you should've settled it on the spot with the seller.

4. When he mentioned about personal warranty, you should've asked what things would this warranty covers. After all, it's not a manufacturer warranty came with a disclaimer and other legal notice. In another words, if you didn't ask anything about the coverage of the personal warranty, it's like giving him the privilege to set the warranty coverage whenever he wants it. And he's not lying to you since no matter how small the coverage is, it's still a personal warranty (you didn't ask right? fair enough?)

So in this case i'd say that i'm backing DFlo as the seller. For the buyer, i have nothing against you. It's just my opinion. And better be careful next time

it seem that there is nothing to nego anymore.

the seller will stick with his opinion. no more wasting my time here.

lesson that i learn is tat never to buy any faulty or so call 1% problem.

hope this thread does not offend anyone.

all the comment and the view from the forumer is appreciated.

thank you.

unix11t.