Hi guys,
I'm a bit confused about where to go for Engineering course. I've just finished my Pre-University called SAM (South Australian Matriculation) in Taylor's College.

The 2 universities mentioned in the title, in my opinion, are the best choices for me due to various external factors such as transport, accommodations and pricing. But I don't have any seniors whom I can refer to.

So I want to ask, are the standards of both universities different?


[In my knowledge]
1. I know that University of Nottingham provide UK degree whereas Monash University provide Australian degree.
2. I also know that in Nottingham, it takes 4 years to reach Masters whereas in Monash, it takes 6 years to reach.

(I do need some corrections if there is any. )

[From what I heard and saw]
1. Monash University standard is higher than in University of Nottingham.
2. Monash University provide more difficult coursework compared to University of Nottingham.
3. Degree in UK (Nottingham) gets better professional recognition than degree in Australia. (from a forum post Honours vs Non-Honours )
4. In The Star newspaper published on 30/1/2013, D-SETARA results were released and it shows that Monash University has a better tier than University of Nottingham in Engineering. (Source from NST)


#4 made me worry the most because it's graded by the MQA representatives.

So any comparisons and comments about that?

This post has been edited by knightzhenry: Jan 30 2013, 02:47 PM

1. Monash University standard is higher than in University of Nottingham. debatable

2. Monash University provide more difficult coursework compared to University of Nottingham.
subjective. I bet people from Monash said that. Some say Nottingham, due to early specialisation, 1st yr stuff is done in Monash's 2nd year.

3. Degree in UK (Nottingham) gets better professional recognition than degree in Australia. (from a forum post Honours vs Non-Honours ) debatable

4. In The Star newspaper published on 30/1/2013, D-SETARA results were released and it shows that Monash University has a better tier than University of Nottingham in Engineering. (Source from NST)
The rating is only a guide, not to be taken seriously. What matters more is the recognition by the Malaysia Board of Engineers. Both are equally recognized.


Both are reputable unis.
The more important consideration are the location and study environment, which do you prefer?

If you say location wise or personal preference and convenience, I would say Monash University.

Well, thank you and thank goodness about #4. And yes, both universities are recognized by the Board of Engineers Malaysia. I'm just afraid that the ratings would jeopardize the quality of education in the universities.

So the education quality of both universities for Engineering are debatable I guess?
and also, I heard from some sources that the number of years to completing Masters in Nottingham is shorter than Monash, is that true?

the masters in nottingham is not a real research masters.... all 4 year courses in the UK has a 'master' degree to it. if you want to get registered by BOE malaysia you have to do 4 years.. same like Australia.. just that the title would be a bachelor's degree..

So the duration of the degree is the same but the title from both UK (Nottingham) and Australia (Monash) would be different?

yes. different. but it is viewed as the same. in the malaysian context it doesn't really matter.

Recent intakes have indicated that more students prefer Nottingham than Monash as far as business courses are concerned.

One of the reasons could be recent exam results showed that some subjects have failure rate of up to 40%.

Some prefer quality but when too many fail, new students prefer alternative places where chances of passing are perceived to be easier. Resitting any paper is not cheap. It can be all dollars and cents.

Hmmm okay. So how about the research thing? I found out that there is a design or research project that is needed in the 4th year to graduate as 'Masters' degree.

If there is, then if we were to complete the research project for that course in Nottingham, we would get the UK 'Masters' degree title?

And let's say in Monash, after doing the same thing for the 5th and 6th year, you can get the Australian 'Masters' degree title?


(Sorry , suddenly jumped to degree comparison but supposed to focus on quality of education, but since tehtmc mentioned that both unis are reputable, the quality would not be different I suppose. )

So you're saying in Business course, many would prefer Nottingham as an access to pass easier whereas Monash would have a higher failure rate because of the education quality of the university?

It may just be a one off thing.

yes you would get an MEng title. But it is not equivalent to a 1.5-2 years post graduate Masters program. You don't do the same thing in Monash. Once you graduate from your degree you can opt do an honours year. If you get first class or so you can jump right into PhD or continue Masters.

So the difference there would be,

Australian (Monash) degree : Completion after 4 years -> titled as "Degree" holder.
UK (Nottingham) degree : Completion after 4 years -> titled as "MEng" holder.

Is that right?

For Post-Graduate, both degrees would undertake 1.5 to 2 years of post-grad course to obtain PhD or Masters?

Yes you are right. However in terms on employment in Malaysia, both are viewed as equal. Some even just do 3 years in engineering in UK (and you graduate with a BEng degree) because they are not bothered with getting registered with BEM. Post graduate is another story though.

There could be a simpler explanation for that, for business courses at least. If I'm not mistaken, Nottingham Malaysia's entry requirements are typically BBB for A-levels or an ATAR of 86 for SAM. Meanwhile Monash Sunway's entry requirements are CDD for A-levels or an ATAR of 70 for SAM.

This is a huge difference and I would assume that the students marginally meeting the entry requirements for Monash would account for the majority of these subject failures. But it is true, failure rates are high although the papers may not be the hardest ever written. I would not know how Nottingham compares based on depth or difficulty though.

lol i hv friends who failed alvls (3Us) and took a foundation course in nottingham then proceeded to degree. talk about quality

May I know which campus did you do your Sam in? I'm also a Sam student from taylors college.. Currently registered to monash for business already

The minimum requirements in the university websites are just that....even some very good schools are not following theirs.

Just found out Imperial College is not following its high requirement of at least a*aaa/a*a*a in engineering for foreign students.

Depending on which engineering field. Biomedical engineering could be easier.

Thanks,it is true. Some eng courses are as low as aab for BEng in IC.

Notice no more Eng Jan/Feb entry for Nott malaysia although accounting is still available.

So no matter what, doing 4 years for both degrees would be accounted as equal level in terms of employment in Malaysia? I mean, no terms and conditions for that matter right?

Hmmm.. Just Googled some facts and got confused with this.
Some people who stopped at BEng degree, would they have the same title as the Australian 'Bachelor' holders then? and would that actually confuse the employers if they faced this situation?

Well, Nottingham Malaysia, from what I heard, has a higher standard of education since it's based on UK education. Is it true that it's requirement for courses like Business is high because of that?
Maybe the failure rate in Monash would be the drawback on why the requirement in Monash for Business course is quite low?

Woah , well done to your friends~

Taylor's College. Hmmm.. Yeah, most of my friends are registered in Monash Business course already. Maybe you could meet my friends there.

Yeah, the intake for Eng is on September now to accommodate other students after A-Levels. Heard from one of the lecturers during The Star Edu Fair.

I remember driving to Nottingham Msia is like driving miles and miles away. It's so deep inside.

Practically, Monash might be a better choice unless you are staying somewhere near Semenyih.

sorry i might sound bias, i declare i am the TS of the monash thread, a monash alumni and currently doing post grad at another aus uni

2. nott's master is an undergrad one where else mon's master is a post grad one just like other parts of the world..

1. standard of what? students? staff? campus? facilities? if u talk about ranking then marginally mon is higher
2. i had not been through nott's curriculum or any of its courses but i can say their grads are top notch too, just like those from monash
3. well, in general yes, UK's top tier schools are better than aus.. but nott is not a top tier.. it is 2nd tier in UK, monash is 1st tier in aus

i would say any of these schools are great by msian standards, easily the top 2 colleges.. if u ask me, it is depending on what you want.. a school in the city or in the outskirts...

during my time in terms of students, monash have more chinese speaking rural msians, petronas n jpa scholars, indonesians and those from the indian subcontinent... where else notts have more english only speaking msians from cities and africans... no matter where all these students are, they are excellent in general

for monash, the honors year is for business students.. for engineering whether or not you receive honors is depending on your final project and results.. most of the time they would see your results only because most people do well in their final project

i heard they upgraded the highway... it is very deep with palm plantations everywhere... my friend killed some1 in a road accident driving back to notts..

This post has been edited by alaskanbunny: Feb 4 2013, 09:00 PM

Yes its Bachelors. that's why some people say its cheaper to study in the UK than Australia because you only need 3 years if you don't give a damn about BEM registration.

Haha. the entry requirement may be low but the high failure rate is due to the high standards. just ask any monash business student. its easy to enter to course, but hard to graduate from it.

Haha, being a university from the UK does not automatically mean it has a higher standard of education.

I feel that the failure rate is not the drawback but rather, the consequence of the low entry requirements set by Monash, possible to attract more students. However, it does mean that there is still a sort of quality control within the course where students who under-perform will still be failed; the low entry requirements simply offer an opportunity to prove yourself. Then again, only the toughest subjects would have such failure rates.

Hey bro, I had this dilemma when I was choosing whether to go to Nottingham or Monash Uni.
At the end, I pick Monash over Nottingham due to campus location and scholarship. (Monash USED to have Merit Scholarship in the form of 50% and 100% tuition fees waiver)
Both universities are good, so either way, you will be fine.

Australian BEng and UK BEng is different in the sense that BEM does recognize UK BEng as it is a 3 years course.
You will not be able to obtain IR status with it, you will have to go for MEng.
Work wise, employers will still employ someone with a UK BEng.

The response colour-coded, thanks bro~

Haha true true. 3 years of undergrad courses would be cheaper for some of us around in Malaysia.

Haha, well that's what I heard from most people and from the comparison with SAM (Australian) and A-Levels (UK)~ So it's not true that UK has higher education standard than Australia?~

Hmm.. So the subjects involved in the course are the ones who caused failures among students and not the overall course?~

Well if you asked me to choose Monash due to location (because I stayed near Damansara), then you can say it's quite late for me to start now? Unless I would wait until July for it. But I would choose Monash in any way due to convenience.
I got 93 ATAR and in scholarship-wise, I don't think I could get any entrance scholarship from either Monash University or Nottingham University. Unless if I'm very lucky to get one from some corporate scholarships.

Those are comparisons between SAM, a 1-year pre-u course and A-levels, a 2-year pre-u course (which is usually taken at an accelerated 1.5 years in colleges here). Inevitably, the A-level syllabus beats SAM in depth, they are simply different courses. Does that translate to a higher standard of undergraduate degrees? Not necessarily. However, I did realise that those who previously sat for A-levels appeared to have an easier transition to the basic first year subjects.

Some subjects are naturally tougher so they have failure rates of 30+%. My point was that the lax entry requirements would make these failure rates seem unnaturally high. As you have an ATAR of 90+, this should not be a major concern...

monash strategy, let u enter but if u cant cope, they would gladly kick u out and say bye bye with ur $$$

entry req. is only a guide.. if more ppl than the quota for the year, they would choose d better students.. so d minimum entry req. is no longer valid.. for the last few years after my graduation, the entry into monash seems to have grown until they start turning students away even after they meet the min req.

this is where MUFY will guarantee you a place if u meet their minimum req.

if u talk about 2 decades ago, yes.. UK is better.. but now more asians are in aus raising d standards and more refugees in UK lowering its standard...

i would say it is both, some course are tougher but there are students getting great grads.. so those that fail are those that didnt work hard enough lor

damansara? jaya? ... i stayed in ss2, going to uni was a great experience.. speeding all d way along d ldp ^^

for engineering, those that took a-lvls will be more relaxed in math and physics/chemistry... unless in SAM u took math b or chem b, 1st year is going to be tough...

i am working with nottingham grads +-2 years my age also... they are great ppl, definitely up to standard... so if u ask me, i would say choose basing on the environment u like

Are you sure about that? I know friends who have studied in both unis say that the density of chinese speaking students and jpa scholars is higher than monash. You'll notice that immediately when you enter Notts; 95% of chinese students converse mandarin here.

UK routes:

BEng-->Meng--> more suitable for working
BEng--> Msc---->Ideal if you want to go to Phd

Both of them need four years.


Lets take a look at the Australian ones:

Aus route:

BEng (4 years)+ Msc---> 5 years more or less before you start your Phd
Beng (4 years)------>you don't have to take masters since you already fulfill BEM's requirement of four years.

Obviously, which is the quicker route if you want to go for academia? If you score a solid firsts in the UK Beng, you can omit your msc and start your phd straight, but obviously on a case by case basis.


To be honest, the Meng Vs Msc thing should only matter if you intend to do academia. MEng, is a professional masters for practitioners. Msc, is a research masters.

Notts first year engineering is harder than Monash. This is because what you cover in Australian unis for the first year already has been done in A-levels, which takes 2 years. SAM students do not cover as much material as A lvl students. However, beyond the first year, I'm not sure.

This post has been edited by Cottoncandyclouds: Feb 7 2013, 01:37 AM

are you sure about this?

i don't wanna make general assumptions or anythg but if compared to curtin, yes

sry i should had mentioned... that was observation during my time, times might had changed... i think there's lack of space at monash so maybe they dont take in gov scholars anymore...

i dont quite agree on the highlighted part but i wont dwell further on that

yes, i must agree with you regarding the first year portion..

curtin is a 2nd tier school in aus... only group of 8 is 1st tier in aus... those trying to transfer credit from a 2nd tier school in aus wont be able to have a full transfer to any group of 8 uni in aus

in general uk schools are better than aus schools.. no doubt, in nearly every aspect... but if u were to compare a 2nd tier uk school with a tier 1 aus school... i think the tier 1 aus school would b better

Which candidate will be selected by employers:

1]3rd class hons from Oxford

2]upper 2nd class hons from Nottingham or

3]1st class hons from Curtin

that really depends on what type of company... but ultimately your personality that matters a lot.

the one with the best interview

So going to 2nd tier universities but graduating with good results still stand a good chance .

On the other hand going to good universities but only managed very average results may be disappointed.

for big mncs, they would prefer 1) or 2), for local SMEs they would take the one which demands the lowest pay..

1st or 2nd tier is ok, not 3rd tier..

in msia, some top tier unis also produce below par grads...

Curtin is 3rd tier ?

Many Malaysians are studying there and graduated from there as well.

Joey Yap,feng shui master is one.

If TS is still hanging around, here's my insights about the MEng/MSc, BEng and all those sort of thing.

If you intend to spend least time (and cost) and don't care about accreditation (which is admittedly not really practised in our industry), 3-years BEng is extremely effective to get to work fast with a good degree - not that anything you learn in the degree will be extremely useful to your work.

Why care about MEng then? Because it adds another year of content, mainly high-level modules exclusive to MSc students and make it into 4 years in length to meet the requirement for 4-years accreditation across the globe now. Is it an MSc? Nope, it's not - it's not meant to produce researcher, but rather an engineer, an accredited one.

MEng vs MSc, what's the difference? The modules taken are mostly the same (at least in Nottingham - Malaysia or UK) but MEng undertake an extra group project which aims to train student in handling and managing projects as it is the case in the industry (PR talk la, but actually YMMV). MEng also makes a 3-month industrial placement compulsory. On one hand it is said to prepare you better for industry but I would say it's just trying to meeting the additional requirement for accreditation only.
MSc, meanwhile, apart from those taught modules similar to MEng (except for one or two that aims to prepare you for research), it has a summer research project, which is individual and worth 1/3 of your mark.

Note though, MSc is a taught/coursework postgraduate Master's. Entirely different thing if you talk about research postgraduate.

For the Australian side, they offer 4 years BEng which is standard case, as you see it offered in Malaysia, Singapore etc. as well. At first glance, you may think 4-year Aus BEng and 4-year UK MEng are the same - but yes ONLY about accreditation. Academic wise, you could see the 1st year of Australian degree usually covers general stuff, where 1st year of UK degree pushes specialised content already. That might explain why UK could afford graduating BEng with 3-years time but took 4-years for Australia. And there doesn't seem to be problems for UK BEng graduates in looking for jobs in Malaysia. And since the additional taught modules for the extra year in MEng are actually being conducted for MSc students as well, I suppose you can say MEng is a notch higher than BEng (Aus or UK). Unless somebody will want to say MSc's modules are of undergrad quality (seriously, anyone?).

So, while MEng is an undergrad Master's, it's certainly more than an undergrad Bachelor, not to mention a slightly more handsome starting pay you have as well (comparing Nott's BEng and MEng. I have no figures for other unis to verify.)

EDIT: And if the D-Setara makes sense, please choose between Monash or UTAR as Nottingham is a tier lower already.

This post has been edited by tanjinjack: Feb 10 2013, 01:44 PM

Tier lower meh jack? I thought still retain

D-SETARA for teaching, SETARA for research. To me, all bullshits.

Chiu like ranking for liberal college and research u in the states.

Its kinda like saying swarthmore college is better than harvard o.o

Why you reply me at facebook then reply me here? Bodohbear

That's very thorough but you're right in terms of facts.

Yeah. 4 years is only good for the requirement to be known as an engineer in Malaysia.
But you said 3 years BEng is good enough to get a job as an engineer in Malaysia? Maybe I misread. Sorry.

and MEng is classified as Undergraduate while MSc is Postgraduate?
If Yes, is there a choice whether you could do MSc? Because I only know that you have a choice to be in BEng or move up to MEng.

Sorry, just read it.


But I appreciate your detailed insights though. It can be sort-of my reference for this.

This post has been edited by knightzhenry: Feb 11 2013, 10:08 PM

3-year BEng is enough. My friends have no trouble looking for job. It's a degree of engineering after all. But without any approved further studies and exam taking, you will not be able to proceed to working towards the chartered engineer status, i.e. Ir. That is pretty crucial for civil engineering but much less so for other field.
To proceed to PhD studies, a 3-year BEng could be sufficient as well although you'll probably need a First Class and show strong potential to succeed the tasks and workload of a PhD student.

Usually, you are required to make your decision to pursue MEng/BEng by the end of your 2nd year. The content for the 3rd year will be different and thus there's no way back after that. However, if you go the BEng route, upon your graduation, you can register yourself into the MSc course. On the other hand, while technically you can still do an MSc after your MEng, but it doesn't make any sense unless it's of a different stream or is extremely specialised.

Which uni has got a higher proportion of international students and at which uni is the use of English more prevalent?