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 xbox360 or wait for ps3 ?

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chtan
post Apr 5 2006, 03:06 PM

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Actually, Sony has made a very bold decission by employing the cell processor rather than the more conventional general purpose processor. Cell is good and fast for processing continuous data stream but lacking on branching capability will definitely hurt since gaming data is full of branching logic.
http://www.majornelson.com/2005/05/20/xbox...s3-part-1-of-4/
http://techreport.com/etc/2005q2/xbox360-gpu/index.x?pg=1
http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/617/617951p1.html
http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/617/617951p1.html
http://arstechnica.com/articles/paedia/cpu...360-1.ars?28280
http://ps3forums.com/viewtopic.php?p=41078#41078
raptor_cZn
post Apr 6 2006, 08:24 PM

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I would say wait for the PS3
the xbox360 isnt that great in terms of graphics compared to the PS3
and eventhough the PS3 might abit pricy and the release date delayed..
the PS3 will come with nifty features such as Linux OS running on the HDD which will allow you to carry out tasks similar to that of a multimedia PC.
The PS3 also uses Blu-ray which can contain more data that equates to better programmed games with higher quality of graphics and sound where else the xbox360 still uses plain DVD which is ageing considering that next-gen DVD media will be out very soon.
chtan
post Apr 7 2006, 03:15 PM

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Considering the typical game for PS2 and PC now a day is around 4~5G so i don't see that there is a urge to move towards Blu-ray yet. This will unnecessarily blown up the development cost and price. And PS2 will be a lousy PC if it try to be cause of it's cell based architecture. Graphically wise, Xbox360's GPU has 48 piplines compare to PS3's not more than 24 pipelines. In case you don't know the recently demo from Sony is a big lie, which is only a CG not the actual game screen.
The usage of cell can be better or worse depends on whether the developer wants to take a much longer time to optimise the code or shorten the development cycle and hence reduce the cost and risk.
prazole
post Apr 7 2006, 03:37 PM

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QUOTE(raptor_cZn @ Apr 6 2006, 08:24 PM)
I would say wait for the PS3
the xbox360 isnt that great in terms of graphics compared to the PS3
and eventhough the PS3 might abit pricy and the release date delayed..
the PS3 will come with nifty features such as Linux OS running on the HDD which will allow you to carry out tasks similar to that of a multimedia PC.
The PS3 also uses Blu-ray which can contain more data that equates to better programmed games with higher quality of graphics and sound where else the xbox360 still uses plain DVD which is ageing considering that next-gen DVD media will be out very soon.
*
u cant seriously compare 360 and ps3 graphic..
on what basis? PS3 Demos?

at least the 360 is "out" already.. and u can confirm that the graphics are not some DEMOs..
shinchan^^
post Apr 7 2006, 03:39 PM

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cannot compared

diff machine doh.gif doh.gif doh.gif

judge-the
post Apr 8 2006, 07:44 AM

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QUOTE(raptor_cZn @ Apr 6 2006, 08:24 PM)
I would say wait for the PS3
the xbox360 isnt that great in terms of graphics compared to the PS3
and eventhough the PS3 might abit pricy and the release date delayed..
the PS3 will come with nifty features such as Linux OS running on the HDD which will allow you to carry out tasks similar to that of a multimedia PC.
The PS3 also uses Blu-ray which can contain more data that equates to better programmed games with higher quality of graphics and sound where else the xbox360 still uses plain DVD which is ageing considering that next-gen DVD media will be out very soon.
*
good lah you already see the future in next-gen console gaming industry! things that not release yet already can compared with those up and running in the market.
welwitchia
post Apr 8 2006, 11:05 AM

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Sorry I can't resists the urge to reply..
Why is having Linux OS a nifty feature? Cause u have features of a multimedia PC? I thought we have always been watching videos and mp3s on our Windows OS PCs.

And..more data = better programmed games? That's a first.
QUOTE(raptor_cZn @ Apr 6 2006, 08:24 PM)
the PS3 will come with nifty features such as Linux OS running on the HDD which will allow you to carry out tasks similar to that of a multimedia PC.
The PS3 also uses Blu-ray which can contain more data that equates to better programmed games with higher quality of graphics and sound where else the xbox360 still uses plain DVD which is ageing considering that next-gen DVD media will be out very soon.
*
Zerol
post Apr 8 2006, 12:51 PM

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QUOTE(welwitchia @ Apr 8 2006, 11:05 AM)
Sorry I can't resists the urge to reply..
Why is having Linux OS a nifty feature? Cause u have features of a multimedia PC? I thought we have always been watching videos and mp3s on our Windows OS PCs.

And..more data = better programmed games? That's a first.
*
I think mostly with having a OS the possibilities are endless, I think third parties will mostly exploit it the most, but that is yet to be seen. If it's that good think of what programs and features you can implant it with. Just my opinion.
Mgsrulz
post Apr 8 2006, 05:37 PM

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QUOTE(chtan @ Apr 7 2006, 03:15 PM)
Considering the typical game for PS2 and PC now a day is around 4~5G so i don't see that there is a urge to move towards Blu-ray yet. This will unnecessarily blown up the development cost and price. And PS2 will be a lousy PC if it try to be cause of it's cell based architecture.
*
what are you talking about? rclxub.gif
if even the ps2/xbox games use up 4-5 GB,what more the next gen?

dont you know that tecmo complained of insufficient space while developing DOA4? smile.gif
and thats only a fighting game... sweat.gif

ofcourse having a bigger medium is better,as they(the developers) can put in more data.(whether that prolongs the game or not is a different case,though happy.gif )

QUOTE
Graphically wise, Xbox360's GPU has 48 piplines compare to PS3's not more than 24 pipelines. In case you don't know the recently demo from Sony is a big lie, which is only a CG not the actual game screen.
The usage of cell can be better or worse depends on whether the developer wants to take a much longer time to optimise the code or shorten the development cycle and hence reduce the cost and risk.
no,they arent all lies..
Konami (specifically Hideo Kojima) have/has yet to show something that he CANNOT do!
take a look at the MGS series.
all the scenes/fights/explosions/etc he showed during E3,TGS,etc,are all in the game.
graphically the same...and in some instances,the actual game is even better!

no game(with the exception of GRAW) has made me drool over the 360's graphics...
PGR3,doa4,etc all look like a xbox game,more than anything else... sweat.gif

This post has been edited by Mgsrulz: Apr 8 2006, 05:38 PM
welwitchia
post Apr 9 2006, 02:10 AM

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Really? Can u provide a URL that'll substantiate u'r statement?
QUOTE(Mgsrulz @ Apr 8 2006, 05:37 PM)
dont you know that tecmo complained of insufficient space while developing DOA4? smile.gif
and thats only a fighting game... sweat.gif
*
Mgsrulz
post Apr 9 2006, 02:42 AM

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QUOTE(welwitchia @ Apr 9 2006, 02:10 AM)
Really? Can u provide a URL that'll substantiate u'r statement?
*
i thought this was a known problem?
anyway,here is a little something for you to read..
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «





heres another one:
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


and another:
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «



just as examples,dont think i need to show anymore,you get the picture... tongue.gif


EDIT:
incase you think the DOA4 problem was just made up by a fanboy,i just found the news on team ninja's chief's concerns... here it is:

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


believe it now? tongue.gif

This post has been edited by Mgsrulz: Apr 9 2006, 02:51 AM
Furious Han
post Apr 9 2006, 03:53 AM

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i don't see the big problem with the disc space issue... 1 dual layer dvd not enough, swap dvd lar... like the good old days... tongue.gif

in the end its all a matter of cost... how much will a blu ray disc cost? does anyone know? 50gigs is all well and good but i think gamers can handle a little dvd swapping right?

with this whole blu-ray and region free games for the ps3... i highly doubt we can see affordable USD40 ori games like the 360.

so yeah, will blu ray solve developer's resource woes? maybe... but i dun see it as a reason to not own a 360.. this is hardly an issue here.

PS. only games which have lots of HD pre-rendered movies take up lots of space.. take note that huge games like Oblivion can still fit snugly into a dual-layer dvd

This post has been edited by Furious Han: Apr 9 2006, 03:55 AM
Mgsrulz
post Apr 9 2006, 04:05 AM

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QUOTE(Furious Han @ Apr 9 2006, 03:53 AM)
i don't see the big problem with the disc space issue... 1 dual layer dvd not enough, swap dvd lar... like the good old days... tongue.gif


*
i dont know bout you,but if they can prevent that from happening again,i am all for it.
swapping discs is a pain in the butt...especially if you have more than 2 discs...

QUOTE
in the end its all a matter of cost... how much will a blu ray disc cost? does anyone know? 50gigs is all well and good but i think gamers can handle a little dvd swapping right?
once in a while,sure...but not EVERY GAME! rclxub.gif laugh.gif

QUOTE
with this whole blu-ray and region free games for the ps3... i highly doubt we can see affordable USD40 ori games like the 360.
i heard the shops in msia selling the games at RM300-500...nvr heard of RM200 games before... sweat.gif or has the price already gone down?or are you talking of buying through online shops?(not everyone has a credit card,you know? laugh.gif )

QUOTE
so yeah, will blu ray solve developer's resource woes? maybe... but i dun see it as a reason to not own a 360.. this is hardly an issue here.
the 360 and ps3 arent the same as the revolution.
these two machines are built with gfx in mind...
and the current crop of games available on the 360 dont impress me...(again,besides GRAW)

QUOTE
PS. only games which have lots of HD pre-rendered movies take up lots of space..

and isnt HD one of the factors to go next gen? huh.gif

QUOTE
take note that huge games like Oblivion can still fit snugly into a dual-layer dvd

funny how a huge game like that can fit in a dual layer disc,while DOA4 struggles on a single layer(i assume their using single layer) laugh.gif
Furious Han
post Apr 9 2006, 04:17 AM

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QUOTE
i dont know bout you,but if they can prevent that from happening again,i am all for it.
swapping discs is a pain in the butt...especially if you have more than 2 discs...

once in a while,sure...but not EVERY GAME! rclxub.gif  laugh.gif
i think maybe until the day we see games with more than 1 dvd, i think its somewhat pointless to argue about this... we'll have another go at this when the time comes biggrin.gif

QUOTE
i heard the shops in msia selling the games at RM300-500...nvr heard of RM200 games before... sweat.gif or has the price already gone down?or are you talking of buying through online shops?(not everyone has a credit card,you know? laugh.gif )


lol... wat are u kidding me? RM300-500? i think the guy at the shop was having some fun with you tongue.gif

even when the 360 was first released, the most expensive games were around RM250... when or where u saw i dunno lah..

now? i'm not only talkin about online, most shop are sellin it for around RM160... consult with our frendly neighbourhood Djinn if u think i'm jokin tongue.gif

RM300-500... doh.gif

QUOTE
the 360 and ps3 arent the same as the revolution.
these two machines are built with gfx in mind...
and the current crop of games available on the 360 dont impress me...(again,besides GRAW)


cant really argue you if u refuse to see it... maybe u'll sing a different tune when kojima releases MGS for the 360? biggrin.gif

QUOTE
and isnt HD one of the factors to go next gen? huh.gif
funny how a huge game like that can fit in a dual layer disc,while DOA4 struggles on a single layer(i assume their using single layer) laugh.gif


next gen in-game HD graphics? yes please...

loads of massive cg movies? err ok... but i wont complain if they're left out...

i'm guessin its a time factor with the DOA 4 team, along with the compression technology used...
welwitchia
post Apr 9 2006, 10:02 AM

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Hmm, I'm certainly surprised to hear that a DL-DVD isn't enough to make a game..but that's because they wanted to fill it with HD video. If a 40min 720P DivX file takes up about 1.4Gb, i don't see why a DL DVD can't be enough.

Oh, BTW, most 360 games costs about RM160-180 now.
Mgsrulz
post Apr 9 2006, 10:49 AM

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QUOTE(Furious Han @ Apr 9 2006, 04:17 AM)
i think maybe until the day we see games with more than 1 dvd, i think its somewhat pointless to argue about this... we'll have another go at this when the time comes

*
biggrin.gif alright...

QUOTE
lol... wat are u kidding me? RM300-500? i think the guy at the shop was having some fun with you tongue.gif

even when the 360 was first released, the most expensive games were around RM250... when or where u saw i dunno lah..

now? i'm not only talkin about online, most shop are sellin it for around RM160... consult with our frendly neighbourhood Djinn if u think i'm jokin tongue.gif

RM300-500...  doh.gif
i've never actually seen a game in shops... blush.gif
just read around...and was shocked to hear them say rm500... shocking.gif laugh.gif
rm160 sounds like a normal ps2/xbox priced game... thumbup.gif shocking,as well... laugh.gif laugh.gif

QUOTE
cant really argue you if u refuse to see it... maybe u'll sing a different tune when kojima releases MGS for the 360?  biggrin.gif
well,he says it IS possible..
but seeing how the max space for the dvd is 17 gb,and his team's relatively minimal experience on m$ console,(comparing mgs2 substance xbox and ps2,the ps2 version is supposedly better... rclxub.gif ) it would surely use at least 2 dvds... sweat.gif
then you'll have two dvds to swap! laugh.gif laugh.gif

QUOTE
next gen in-game HD graphics? yes please...

loads of massive cg movies? err ok... but i wont complain if they're left out...

i'm guessin its a time factor with the DOA 4 team, along with the compression technology used...

yeah,guess so..
perhaps given more time they could've done more to compress the game,but no worries,it is out already.. laugh.gif

QUOTE(welwitchia @ Apr 9 2006, 10:02 AM)
Hmm, I'm certainly surprised to hear that a DL-DVD isn't enough to make a game..but that's because they wanted to fill it with HD video. If a 40min 720P DivX file takes up about 1.4Gb, i don't see why a DL DVD can't be enough.

*
i actually havent read the article about the head of team ninja i posted.. (i only read a statement of it in a mag) and its crazy to think a video can take 2gb... sweat.gif sweat.gif

a question for xbox 360 users..
for all the updates/patches/etc,how long does it take to download?(knowing streamyx dry.gif )
is it fast or slow?
nothing reaches 1/2 gb,does it? sweat.gif
xxboxx
post Apr 9 2006, 10:50 AM

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QUOTE
"The screen resolution for Xbox 360 games will be in high definition, so the pre-rendered movies are going to be pretty large," said Itagaki. "If we encoded the Dead or Alive 4 trailer from E3 in high definition in a quality acceptable to us, it will easily be about 2GB." This would leave around 7BG for game data, but for games relying on pre-rendered scenes to tell and develop the story, multiple DVDs may be required. Itagaki added how shocked he and his team were when they were told the Xbox 360 would use DVDs.
2GB, ya, if you compress it with divx/mpeg2/xvid. try it with wmv-hd or h.264 and you'll see how small the filesize can be.

pre-render cutscene are a thing of the past. even on ps2 and xbox1 some developer has stopped using it and rely only with in-game cutscene. with xb360 and ps3 powerful processing capabilities, the need for pre-render become almost to zero. and pre-render also to be blamed for false advertising the actual graphic quality for the game. if not mistaken advertisment with pre-render was banned in europe because false advertising.
judge-the
post Apr 9 2006, 11:39 AM

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QUOTE(Mgsrulz @ Apr 9 2006, 10:49 AM)
biggrin.gif alright...
i've never actually seen a game in shops... blush.gif
just read around...and was shocked to hear them say rm500... shocking.gif  laugh.gif
rm160 sounds like a normal ps2/xbox priced game... thumbup.gif shocking,as well... laugh.gif  laugh.gif
well,he says it IS possible..
but seeing how the max space for the dvd is 17 gb,and his team's relatively minimal experience on m$ console,(comparing mgs2 substance xbox and ps2,the ps2 version is supposedly better... rclxub.gif ) it would surely use at least 2 dvds... sweat.gif
then you'll have two dvds to swap! laugh.gif  laugh.gif
yeah,guess so..
perhaps given more time they could've done more to compress the game,but no worries,it is out already.. laugh.gif
i actually havent read the article about the head of team  ninja i posted.. (i only read a statement of it in a mag) and its crazy to think a video can take 2gb... sweat.gif  sweat.gif

a question for xbox 360 users..
for all the updates/patches/etc,how long does it take to download?(knowing streamyx dry.gif )
is it fast or slow?
nothing reaches 1/2 gb,does it? sweat.gif
*
updates will noramlly take around 5-30mins it depends on the traffic i think. my fastest update was about 5mins and the longest it was around 15mins smile.gif
Mgsrulz
post Apr 9 2006, 11:41 AM

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QUOTE(judge-the @ Apr 9 2006, 11:39 AM)
updates will noramlly take around 5-30mins it depends on the traffic i think. my fastest update was about 5mins and the longest it was around 15mins smile.gif
*
shocking.gif shocking.gif shocking.gif
so fast?

how big is/are the file(s)? huh.gif
Furious Han
post Apr 9 2006, 12:06 PM

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QUOTE(Mgsrulz @ Apr 9 2006, 11:41 AM)
shocking.gif  shocking.gif  shocking.gif
so fast?

how big is/are the file(s)? huh.gif
*
not that big i think... most of the updates we cant see the size of the files...

only certain files, like the kameo co-op pack for example... around 27MB

speed oso depends on time of the day u download... for me at least biggrin.gif

early morning and late night is very good... afternoon and evening tak payah harap doh.gif

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