hi, i've been lifting for 8 months.
I am 182 cm, use to be 63kg but gained to 72(currently).
i am taking mass gain throughout the period. on and off.
my target weight is 78. so should i bulk till 80 then cut? or lean gain till 78kg.
btw im the skinny type. ectomorph
please advice.
thanks

Ectomorph, mesomoprh, ecto-meso doesn't have any significant impact on how you should be dieting.

Sure, you are skinny previously and obviously you are happy that you've gained 9kg but how much from that 9 kg is fat and how much is muscle?

I have a cousin who aimed for 80kg bodyweight since he is skinny. Yes, he does managed to get to that weight but all of them are fat. That is not a good body to have.

Right now the only question that you need to ask is that, do you have enough muscle? Does all that 9 kg is all fat? Because if it is all fat, then if you enter the cutting phase, you'll lose all that 9 kg.

ok understood. i probably need to check on that.
does that mean lean bulk will be a better way?

This post has been edited by kennyy90: Dec 24 2012, 11:57 AM

JUST BULK. Clean bulk, dirty bulk. They'll both put on muscles. Since you're an ectomorph you won't have trouble cutting. Just bulk.

That depends on you. One way is not better than the other if planned and executed properly.

People opt for lean bulk if they do not want to deal with cutting later which generally involves a period of time where they have to dedicate many hours of cardio and strict calorie deficits. Also, if they dislike the physical look of added body fat they are probably better off lean bulking as the mental strength and discipline to continue despite not being 'ripped' can be too hard for some people.

However, gains are slower and alot of patience is needed to lean bulk.

With plain traditional bulking, gains are quicker and strength gains can be significant in comparison. Thats generally the appeal. Not to mention, many enjoy the added calorie surplus you eat at when bulking (Doublecheese burger with extra cheese and fries on the side? Yes please!!).

However, like I said earlier, you have to cut later which can be alot of work depending on how quickly you want to get ripped. And a cut diet has to be on point to minimise muscle loss.

You have to decide for yourself which is better because your the one who has to put in the time work and effort.

alright. i guess i have to plan properly then. thanks for the advice guys

there is actually a simple formula for idea weight:

height in cm - 100 = idea weight (with bf% < 10%, for male)

which means that u can actually bulk to >85kg, before cutting back, since u are quite tall.

good luck.

thanks for the tip. that will take me another year i guess.

My take on the matter is you should always bulk slowly. Meaning consume a surplus of calories but keep them only 10-30% above maintenance levels. I see no point in gaining a load of body fat from binge bulking and having to start cutting way too soon which will likely result in loss of muscle mass, especially so for a natural trainee. Bodybuilding is a marathon, not a sprint.

Have you measure your body fat percentage?

I would continue bulk slowly as Dan suggested..keep an eye on the scale..measure the body fat percentage. There are many online..

You want to be choose a range you are comfortable with...usually 10-18% bodyfat.. consume a surplus until you hit 18% or higher. Once you hit 19% you know its time to slow down on the bulk...eat cleaner and maintain the calories until you lower bodyfat go back to 15% or lower..

but if you are real ectomorph..cutting shouldnt be a problem to u. you already know what to do for cutting without even thinking about it. eating should be the main concern..

This post has been edited by myvi5949: Dec 24 2012, 08:02 PM

hi kenny,
no it will not take that long. just eat 5000-6000 calories a day and don't worry about bf% for 2-3 months.
you will be in the sweet spot where u will see all ur lift numbers going up 100-200 lbs at the minimal (squat, deadlift, press, bench).
what u will gain is probably 60% muscle and 40% fat.
http://startingstrength.com/index.php/site...ct#.UNjrv28p98E

after u hit 85-90kg only then u cut.

cuttting is easy anyway, it is the gaining muscle and strength part that is difficult.

http://startingstrength.com/index.php/site/steel_odyssey
http://www.basbarbell.com/

If Kenny had a 2500 kcal TDEE, his optimal calorie intake should be at 3000 kcal (max at 20% increase. Going further than that will cause a lot of accumulated bodyfat. Yeah, don't worry about the bf? What if he managed to gain 10 kg and 7kg of that is fat? When he is in cutting phase, all that 7kg will lose and he'll back at his original weight + a little bit of muscle mass he can save from cutting phase.

And NO. Extreme calorie intake will only lead to fat increase. Muscle mass and calorie intake has diminishing effect.

5000-6000 calories??? It is hell alot of food to put in mouth.... I think quite misleading already..

5k-6k calories....

i guess its time for me to check my body stats. before i make my decisions

This post has been edited by kennyy90: Dec 25 2012, 01:05 PM

hi alien,
1. first of all, kenny is massively underweight to begin with. he gotta add some weight fast. 5000-6000 calories/day is perfectly achievable, real life wise or medically speaking, and had been documented pretty well. if the calories surplus is just 300-500 calories/day, it will probably takes him 3-5 years (didn't do the math) to get to his end destination.
2. if kenny can lift big while ingesting 5000-6000 calories/day, it will put enough stress on his body and force his body to grow some serious muscle quick. 60%/40% muscle/fat growth is perfectly achievable.
3. cutting is the easy part. even using ur worst-cast number where 7kg out of the 10kg weight increase is fat. it is easy to get rid of that 7kg, but do u have any idea how hard it is to add 3kg of lean muscle? u see a lot of people in the gym everywehre, doing abs, bicep curl and other fancy shits day-in-day-out, without the slightest increase of muscle all the time, all the time.

read the novice effect article by mark rippetoe. the transformation is simply amazing!

paulthebug

Nope. Even with beginner gains, the most muscle they can get naturally is 30 lbs for within a 3-5 years of training (Quoted from Will Brink).

Even with Kenny's underweight problem, consuming 100% extra calorie intake wouldn't make him gain more muscle faster. You know there is diminishing effect on calorie with muscle. So, why bother eating a lot when 7 kg out of 10 kg is fat mass and will be lost during cutting phase? Why don't he take it slow?

Sure, eating a lot of food can make you lift heavy weight but that is not the only factor that can increase your lifting poundage. So, by your logic, by eating 5000-6000 kcal a day, one can easily increase his compound lift by 100-200 lbs minimal within how long? How about form? How about periodization? How about rest period? How about max effort, dynamic effort, speed work? How about genetic? How about human mechanical? That doesn't count?

Bodybuilding is a marathon, not a sprint.

This post has been edited by alien9: Dec 25 2012, 04:08 PM

hi alien,

wow wow wow... so much questions... why worry so much bro?
just go out eat big and lift big. in 2 months time, if it is not working, what's there to lose? at most some 10kg of fat, which can be dealt with easily.
but if it's working, the decomposition can be finished within 6 months (3-4 months of muscle gain + strength increase, and 2 months of cutting).
life is short.

paulthebug

p/s: bro alien, please do not think that i dismiss all ur questions arrogantly. to answer each and everyone of your questions, i suppose, is beyond the scope of this thread. i think the answers can be found in:
http://www.amazon.com/Starting-Strength-3r...s=mark+rippetoe
and
http://www.amazon.com/Practical-Programmin...s=mark+rippetoe
i bought this two books back in 09, i think.

chill guys, i'm sure there isnt a perfect method in bulking, i probably need to find out which one can my body adapt to the best.

Sure, there isn't the perfect method but some method is much better than other. WHy don't you google or find out about clean bulk (my method) vs dirty bulk vs extreme dirty bulk (there isn't none but when you consume 100% extra calorie than you should just to bulk, i guess that would considered extreme).

Few bodybuilders who have their own VLOG for example Marc Lobliner (Ex-Ceo/Owner of Scivation), Chris Jones (PoG), Layne Norton PhD, Matt Ogus advocate clean bulk for their bulking phase. These people need to increase their muscle mass for competition.

Sure, you aren't going to compete anytime soon. Heck, you just want to gain weight am I right? But do you want to turn from skinny -> skinny fat -> fat? Avoid dirty bulk by all means.

bro, u must be an academic in real life, so knowledgeable...
simpleton like me only know simple things, like for skinny fat newbie,
whatever u eat & drink (be it nasi lemak, ramli burger, mee goreng, boneless chicken breast, what have you), double it;
whatever u lift, at least triple it.

eat like a badass, train like a badass...

again, what is there to lose if it doesn't work? just 2 months...

merry christmas and happy new year.