Hi,

Anyone here using Mazda MPS..?? Thinking of getting one, need to know if its worth getting a Mazda MPS.

Any particular Mazda showroom having the MPS for Demo...


Thanks a bunch

Rgds
Les

If u're okay with the torque steer, by all means go go go!

i read that mazda has no testdrive for this car. have to buy straight

the torque steer is present but not as bad with the current technology already.

besides, the mps with bose sound system is a very value for money Hothatch. 0-100 6.x sec.

its competitor is the VW Gti R around RM280k if not wrong.

If you're really interested I can arrange a Mazda MPS test drive unit. However, it'll only be available around next Thursday , Friday or Saturday.

how much MPS now?
thanks

^ around RM 178 -180k i believe OTR

u can ask kcng....oh wait....he trashed it

RM179,912.30 OTR with insurance.

However, there's additional RM15,000 discount if you book it in Dec 2012. I'm unsure if this additional discount will last till End Jan 2013.

i am also looking at the car, but the 20k given discount by mazda is 2011 built rite?

i dont mean to be cynical but if can afford a rm180k car, why save the rm15k for one year late made. better get the newer year made and can sell off higher than rm15k

UNLESS, you intend to keep the car for, say, >5yrs then , of course take advantage of it. I believe after 5-6th years, the bulk of the dep already taken up de

gdluck and do take picture and post it here ok! How long waiting period?

My friend had test driven it and he said handling not good and way too much torque steer. The engine overpowers the chassis.
I also read the comparison article between MPS vs FD2R vs Megane RS and the MPS despite the cheapest price still end up being the lowest score due to handling.

the torque steer can be reduced / eliminated by lowering the car.the stock handling is not that bad if you know how the car behave. this car is Golf/Scirocco killer, had a Golf Gti having a hard time with overheated DSG trying to catch up with the Mazda MPS

Straight line of course it will trash the Golf GTI, it has bigger engine and a lot more power. But yeah, people have their own preferences. Better test drive then decide.

seriously? 15k discount only? some dealers even offered up to 30k discount man....

Grats to you if you were given that offer.

This post has been edited by lucifal: Dec 14 2012, 11:13 PM

30k?

if i were in the market for a 180k.

without a doubt, i'd scoop that mps for 150k is a steal , regardless 1 year late made...

150k for a new MPS is ....

damn, i want one now if i cant afford even sub 160k car lol

20K discount for these 2 ads found in mudah.

http://www.mudah.my/Mazda+Mazda3+MPS+M+-18656921.htm
http://www.mudah.my/Mazda+3+MPS+2+2+M+turb...1309.htm?last=1

How come the Mazda MPS has torque steer while other similar powered cars like the Golf GTI don't have torque steer?

VW gti is not as power as Mazda MPS. MPS eats the gti for breakfast.

the VW Golf R is competitor for Mazda MPS and teh Golf R is an All wheel drive

There was also the Alfa Romeo 147 GTA Autodelta. 328 hp out of a 3.7l V6, or 400 hp if you bought the supercharged version. And yes, front wheel drive. According to Clarkson it handled quite well. Though I'm not quite sure if he meant the "regular" version or the supercharged one.

The VW Golf W12 (Bentley Continental GT engine IIRC in a mid engined Golf V) was also supposed to be rather ok, though that one was AWD.

My relative got tis mps.15k discount when bought at sep.i test drove d car.the 1st gear dunno got limit of torque to release or wat,u onli wil feel strong pulling power start from 2nd gear.d handling is acceptable,but lose to megane..i speed to 190 easily,but wil feel body cant stand it d powerful engine,wil feel a bit difficult control after 190.my relative oso comment same issue.v went test drive megane,d pulling power is lose to mps,but high speed stability for megane is good,i can speed to 220 and stil feel d car under control.anyway,its worth get mps since is value for money for performance.i think after change suspension and install bar,d handling wil be better.

Not necessarily just because of the power I think. FD2R even if you tuned it to make as much or even more power than the MPS, the steering is still very steady. My friend's FD2R for example, dynoed around 260HP already but the steering is still very straight when you whack it hard! FD2R & Golf GTI are just superior FWD car compared to the MPS.

so the MPS power really more than what it can take huh. myb truly need an aftermarket upgrades lol

so if u and your relative ,to choose again, which one will he & u will buy?

but i believe megane is about rm270-280k right?

for such price, its a no brainer that MPS is the one for rm 170k. that's 100k alot to improve the MPS and I like MPS design all the way. Megane is more exotic or exquitsite. MPS OTR so f***ing nice.

I don't mean to be cynical, but high speed feeling of stability is quite subjective ,no? if normal car can do 180 also, im sure MPS can do 200 & more, np. but im not sure if RS cup is AWD or FWD like MPS?

if we talk about RS cup, myb can talk about the Focus RS also (or is it ST?) lol


myb also due to the transmission?
VW is just amazing with what they can do.
they just simply done everything in the right way.
cept for the DSG durability lol in china , the DSG pain is massive that the gomen pass a bill to 'force' VW to cover 1 year warranty for their gb . Sumfin' like that, dont rmb exactly what



This post has been edited by wayfeel: Dec 15 2012, 09:36 PM

The Megane is selling at around rm230K.

I wouldn't say stability is subjective. Some cars are just really more stable and give a lot more confidence at high speeds. Of course as to how fast one can say a car is stable or not is a bit subjective depending on skills and balls, but if at the same speed one car is more stable than the other it's not really subjective but more due to the way the car is designed & setup.

overly hard suspension quickly wears out the fun of the car

i read somewhere the RS cup about rm270k ,myb my bad. *update* ya, is rm230k lol

If 200 over....whats the reason of not getting the Golf over the megane. the Gti is luxurious and performance enough, without the torq steer

although each time i see an golf gti, yea la, it never fail to impress me , nice la, admiration la, ooh lala

but it just not like when see an MPS...

mybe cuz my blood is JDM

beside mps>megane cuz 4drs hehe



This post has been edited by wayfeel: Dec 15 2012, 09:59 PM

test drive one the other day ( thinking of upgrading my diesel 400nm 180bhp plant to the mps) and here's what i thought;

1) Great discount for 2012 model ( no brainer coz its end of the year anyway) - 15k
2) first and 2nd gear pulling power kinda suck compared to my 400nm FF car
3) the shocks are too hard and every door panel was rattling ( i fing hate rattling)
4) third gear onwards - it was all smiles. Very quick to reach 200kmh but the problem is the first and 2nd gear is a little hard to control. the car jumps lane easily ( prolly due to the FF layout)
5) torque steer is not that crazy
6) Took the ss19 corner ( from subang parade to guthrie highway) and it was obvious the car was not made to handle corners. understeer was very obvious.

All that being said - the car is a fine piece of engineering for 170k out of a showroom. value for money performance. shame the cornering was not tweaked further

For me,stability and handling is important than power.if i affordable,i wil choose megane..d ride feeling is different..if car power but handling not gd,i oso dun have confident to speed fast.

One reason is the Megane is still available in manual! It also has more power than Golf GTI and surely faster for time attack. In fact if I remember correctly it's currently the quickest FWD car around Nurburgring. Some also like the look which is a bit more different.

quicker by a shave...rly not that material to me...for sure i didnt buy a car cuz it is quicker by a sec

but yea i agree on the stability and handling if that's strictly what you're looking for.
MPS just more on raw power. Megane is the right car for tracking. but for me, i'd spend on aftrmarket upgrades with the 70k difference

Im biased coz i just prefer the MPS styling. Cuz im just not that hardcore. Im more of a performance car that can be driven everyday.

sthg lik the Golf gti which excel in. still the best all rounder hothatch.

I mean, with the Gti, u can fetch your girlfriend to ballroom, clubbing and still looks classy & blends well in line with the others lik skylines, evo, typeRs

Balik kampung or attend parties also looks upclass & not the riceboy image, but a sporty executive sorta, it just looks more mature .
fetch your parents comfortably at the back. your future in laws also most probably have good impression of you at first met with the Gti.
even suitable to go to pasar mlm & racetrack. or even tesco, or ikea no problem with space.

Bring the megane to any of these, ppl gonna think u just come back from sepang track. just dont forget to bring the helmet as well for a full show anyway or droning in-laws at the back complaining. but it sure look exotic OTR and not sure about rear room. this car surely for weekend car better or track just make sure you have other car for daily use which i think the MPS or Gti r more comfortable for.

End of the day, just make sure wht it use for.



This post has been edited by wayfeel: Dec 16 2012, 02:51 AM

A good 3 car to compare of similiar performance would be :

Mazda 3 MPS - RM170k
Ford Focus ST - RM208k
Volkswagon Golf R - RM270k

They are all around 250HP, but Mazda has higher engine displacement at 2.3L, while the Volks and Ford is both at 2.0L. All very sporty car, my suggestion is to press the SA to give you a test drive and also do some google of these car.

No it does not. On paper it looks impressive but no in real live. I had a turbocharged front wheel drive and you can't put 380nm of torque on the front wheels on the road and when compared to the turbo 4wd I have now, it is a world of difference. Without the fancy DSG, it is very difficult to get consistent 0-100 times too. This was proven when they compared the GTi with normal gearbox and DSG.

Overall it will be slightly faster (only by miliseconds.. can't consider that as eating the GTi for breakfast) but with so much torque on the front wheels, it is not easy to drive.

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Added on December 17, 2012, 9:33 amWe all know FD2R is the torqueless wonder.. that is why you don't have torque steer. It is not called 'Torque' steer for nothing.

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Added on December 17, 2012, 9:39 amTorque steer has nothing to do with the suspension and no amount of lowering of the car will reduce torque steer. Again, it is not called 'torque' steer if it had anything to do with the suspension.

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Added on December 17, 2012, 9:43 amWhy is point 4 and 5 contradictory? You said it jumps lane on point 4 and probably due to FF layout.. hello.. that my friend.. is torque steer and yet on point 5 you said that torque steer is not that crazy? Well, jumping 1 lane due to torque steer is bad enough.. do you need it to jump 2 lanes before you consider it as bad torque steer?

This post has been edited by sleepwalker: Dec 17 2012, 09:43 AM

i hope mine ends with MPS ...

For those who wanna have a look and perhaps thinking of getting one, we will have 1 Test drive unit at our place starting tomorrow 11am till Thursday.

So what makes the MPS to suffer from torque steer while VW Golf R doesn't?

One of the reason is MPS is a FWD, while Golf R is AWD.

AWD allows the excessive torque generated by engine distributed to rear wheel, while FWD can't, the front wheel had to endure all the excessive torque generated by engine.

I tot the Golf R was FWD. Is there any FWD car with similar power to the MPS but do not suffer from torque steer? If yes, why don't it suffer from torque steer?

The Golf GTi is FWD.. Golf R is AWD. That the reason why they don't make cars with so much power to the front wheels due to torque steer. The only way to overcome it is to put less power on the front wheels or change the drive train to RWD or AWD. Any car with so much torque will suffer from torque steer.

megane rs250 which offer a far more engaging drive than the mps its worth paying the price difference
although rs250 had 250hp and 340nm of torque on ff drivetrain, it does not suffer from excessive torque steer like mps.
i trashed the car in the corner and while i was ready for sudden nose action, car is surprisingly very composed. guess the mechanical lsd on rs250 is
so effective i could drive it as hard as my fr ride on sharp corner!
steering feedback during high speed lane change is great. and a peek underneath settled my question.
the steering axis on rs250 is independent. no ball joints or tie rod link to the suspension system.
rs250 is one hell of a ride it never feels like a' rear torsion beam' equipped car!

I believe the Focus ST has similiar system, they call it torque vectoring.

I would get a grey import Subaru 2.5 STI which has >300hp >400nm costing around rm170-220k, depending on dealer.

Yeap but in essence its a smarty TC s/w.

Don't need that much horsie. 250hp and 340nM of torque is good enough for me, the roadtax jump from 2.0L to 2.5L is insane, RM380 vs RM880.

yeah but can't find good version 9 unregs anymore

If I am not wrong, once Mazda depletes the MPS stock, they will stop bringing in the MPS due to low demand here in Malaysia.

Renault has a track day this Sunday 23rd Dec. They may have taxi ride available in the Megane. If you're interested, give them a call to ask. A professional driver will take you for a 2 or 3 lap spin and you can get a good idea of what the car can do.

They also have a year end offer with good trade in values so don't strike the Megane off the list if you're considering a similar type of car.

yes. torque vectoring control.
i have not test drive the focus st yet but a friend who drove it oversea feedback : focus st is not as engaging as the rs250.

Could i have d number?

http://www.renault.com.my/contact/dealerlocatorService.html

Try the PJ branch.

Sure they are provide the free taxi ride?i test d car at pj branch last month

I don't know whether they have it for this track day but you can ask them.

I got a customer want to let it go for Rm13xk.
Mileage 2xk only.White colour,free accident.Also 2011 year made.
Reason to sell is hardly use as working oversea.

Interested may PM me.TQ

nice price

bare in mind, oversea model and malaysia model may not exactly be the same, a few buttons or functions may not be included, this may affect its actual performance but first of all, make sure the driver can drive it, not everybody is the same in the sense of driving or whatsoever, the car itself may not be the one at fault.
therefore test drive if can or put more trust in the car you want, and not so much on the people selling it

first of all, i've driven the mazda 3 mps.
imho.. mazda 3 mps may be too powerful specially during first gear and second gear time frame but once you get use to it, you'll learn to fully utilize or learn to control it, think of it as a beast to be tamed..steering wheel isn't light to me, it's just nice for control, slightly heavy but i like it, not sure about other people..
for the looks, aggressive and great to look at, the velocity red colour is hotstuff and celestial blue is special to see on the road

mazda 3 mps may still be coming perhaps at a low production rate or upon booking, it has always been like that here in malaysia..

This post has been edited by Jinster: Dec 19 2012, 01:12 PM

Mps 1st gear not so impressive.2nd gear juz can feel d power..i wonder why evo 3 torque is less than mps,but i feel my fren putra which use stock engine 3 is much powerful than mps

Not really torqueless lah. My friend's car has pretty good torque especially after 6000 rpm and pulls hard even with 5 people on board.

haha bro...
Torqueless wonder is the nick name given to honda vtec engines ler...
lol

how. or why.
is it cuz without the force induction feeling also the vtec can puuuuuuuuuulllllllllllllllllllll is it lol

and his passenger might think, '

kesian honda, need to tekan until 6000rpm. VW 2000rpm already pull hard dy '

and the engine roar....

is it turbo?

I believe pulling to 6000 is a different kind of fun. not as direct as you think.

Well Honda's Type R engines are always like that and designed to be like that anyway, small engines making big max power at the top range.
You want big grunt down low, tough to beat big displacement engines.

lack of bottom end but very good high end horsepower....

also usually reserved for engine with more HP figures then torque....

That is why it is called a torqueless wonder.. esp when max torque is right next to max power.. which is right next to the redline.

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Added on December 20, 2012, 12:29 amDo you actually know anything about vtec? It has no usable torque. By the time the usable torque aka your 'pull' feeling comes in, it is already almost redline and you have to change gear. That is why vtec engines gets the torqueless wonder title.

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Added on December 20, 2012, 12:32 amThat title started all the way from the B16 and B18 days.. it's a great engine.... but it feels like one huge turbo lag while waiting for the torque to come in.,. aka the engine also gets another nickname.. the Vtec-Lag.. but torqueless wonder still sounds the best.

This post has been edited by sleepwalker: Dec 20 2012, 12:32 AM

FD2R max torque is around 6000rpm while max power around 8500 and redline is 9000rpm, so still got around 3000rpm in between.

Yes.. at only a 215nm and will begin to drop as you trying to hit max power before shifting. And due to the close ratio gearbox, you practically shift straight into your max torque and then start losing torque again.. rinse and repeat.. and hence.. still torqueless wonder.

The 3000 rpm in between will see you having less than 200nm of torque.

So would the Honda NSX engine still be considered a torqueless wonder? I assume it should also be the case if it also has a close ratio gearbox.

Honda C32B.
206kW at 7300 rpm and 304Nm at 5300 rpm.

Just curious.

How can it be torqueless when it has 304nm of torque? Do you all actually understand why we call it a torqueless wonder? You might not unless you have driven one and when i say drive, I don't mean test drive the car on a straight road trying to do the century dash. The car works great if you are trying to gun the fastest quarter mile or century dash as you don't feel the lack of torque. Drive it like an everyday car in urban traffic or drive it up Genting and you will understand why we call it the torqueless wonder.

It is less apparent in the FD2R and the term originally coined for the B16s and B18s where the slightly less displacement made it a handicap in the torque curve aka usable torque regions.

The C32B engine is 3.2 liters and large displacement means large amount of torque. You don't call that torqueless wonder. A large displacement engine also means a lot of usable torque at lower RPM. That is the opposite of the smaller engine capacity of the other Type Rs.

This post has been edited by sleepwalker: Dec 20 2012, 08:50 AM

putra so light

nice name

haha....i know the feeling, its like potong stim moment unless drag racing after toll plaza

Not really, just for the B series Type-R mostly.
C32B, FB20, K20A got bigger cc so naturally also higher torque.
L series engines are designed to bring all the torque in during pickup, e.g. L15A for the Jazz & City has 128 N·m (94 lb·ft) @ 2700 rpm

Understood. I get the picture now, there is very little usable bottom end torque.

The family actually did own a B16 EH9 sedan some 17 odd years ago, and from what I remember driving it, it had a fantastic rev and nice roar on the highway. I remember driving it along federal highway midnight, what a rush!

i think lotus 907 was the original torqueless wonder

I just like the vtec gradual pull for the natural feeling & cornering rather than FI kick. Vtec is more than enough zoom zoom in the city for me & I prefer to rev, makes the driving less boring than kick coming in so early around 2000 likdat...I not hardcore enough to want so much torque in the city & not enough skill for so much torque.



This post has been edited by wayfeel: Dec 20 2012, 11:14 PM

maybe you can go try peugeot 1.6 turbo or vw 1.4tsi / 2.0gti.

you might like it

I don't have to try. I know I will like them

it's just that...I've i$$ue, you know what I mean

the 1.4tsi & 2l gti is about 130k & 220k OTR respectively if I'm not mistaken. What d point of trying but can't own?

Vtec cars r way ahead cheaper not to mention lower maintenance though provide decent performance and fun ,performance value over cost, nonetheless not thrilling as turbo does, u know u cant have everything so life's is full of compromises

Dude.. do you think we turbo drivers drive at 2000rpm while we are zoom zoom zooming around the city? No, we drive like the VTEC drivers do, rpm to the redline across the gears. We don't drive at 2000 rpm to feel the kick.. we drive at 6000-7000 rpm to feel the kick too. What I'm saying is that we have the best of both worlds where you can have a lazy drive all the way up Genting on 1 gear or zoom around urban traffic without the need to shift gears and when the time comes to put the pedal to the metal, we still have the oomph to do it.

We can choose a boring drive or a vtec drive whenever we want. Don't think that we are boring drivers who do not shift gear. BTW, the VTEC Gradual pull you mention.. is like saying the grapes are sour but I like it.. you know what I mean? VTEC drivers have a harder time on the corners.. and as much as I hate to use Initial D for any references, there is one point in the series they got right... the part about VTEC running out of RPM on long corners. If you don't shift gear, you will hit redline mid corner and if you do shift gears, you lose time and power. It is not so easy to drive a VTEC fast as some people think.

For turbo cars, many also not yet spooling up until you hit 3500rpm. Some using big turbos to achieve very high max power actually becomes much slower in low-mid rpm since the boost only comes effective on higher rpm. So some turbos also like VTEC but with much more kick.

sounds like...."my wife is ugly but doesn't matter all i care is i can have sex for free"

i tried the pug 1.6t, can't compare to even the 1.4tsi

.....and doing it wrongly will just over power and understeer into the wall

thats why we have VGT, twin turbo and twincharger technology for

When you say many, were you just referring to Japanese turbos.. 10 years ago? Comparing the guys who mod big turbo is also like those guys modding their vtec for high power to the point where their max torque, hp and redline falls within 1000rpm zone. Turbos nowadays are more subtle and no more big fat laggy turbos pre year 2000 days.

We can't run away from turbo-lag and spooling times but our turbo-lag is definitely way shorter than VTEC lag... I have nothing against the vtec boys. Had lots of fun with them last time but I just want to make the point that it is not as easy to drive as most people think. It is also not that fun to drive. Blasting down a straight road demon shifting every gear inside VTEC zone is fun. Driving it daily outside of vtec is no that fun.

This post has been edited by sleepwalker: Dec 21 2012, 12:49 PM

when comes to this... sleepwalker is sifu
and i miss my 4g93t, personally i dont think it has very bad lag.. considering everything is factory setup.
overtake car by just flooring the accelerator without shifting

my friends satria with 4g93t got beaten pretty bad by a passat 1.8 at kesas, sprint start after both paid toll.
thats why now i bring him to the darkside liao, he no more thinking manual turbo 2 doors.....4 door dsg turbo's can be fun and do family duties

want a torqy NA car have a drive in an L series engine jazz/city....its damn fun to have max torque below 2000rpm

I miss my 4G93T too but since I sold it to my mech, I still get to see it every time I visit my mech. However, I can say that I don't miss the torque steer and scrubbed front wheels.

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Added on December 21, 2012, 2:47 pmLike VTECs, it's not easy to drive the 4G93T with all the power going to the front wheels. Most can't even beat 1.8NA putras when they spin their front wheels on first, second and third gears. With the Passat's 0-100km/h, a 4G93T should be more than 1-2 seconds faster on the century dash provided you get the power down properly. Anybody who can't get the 4G93T to the century dash in under 7 seconds should practice more launches.

Beaten by a car that does 0-100km/h in 8.5 seconds.. that must have been a bad day for the driver of the 4G93T. A nicely modded NA 1.8 Putra/Wira could have beaten that Passat.

This post has been edited by sleepwalker: Dec 21 2012, 02:48 PM

mother said there would be days like these

i dont have many race experience, usually drive slow slow and overtake snail car only.
but, there is one time i cant catch up with golf gti. 4th gear pick up, same same.. when i shift to fifth.. he slowly going away, and when i reach 180km.. im 'cut off' jor.. kekeke

and u were racing with what machine... m3mps?

wira 4g93t versus golf gti

I also dont hv many race experience but sometime do feel racy for spirited driving esp those like to tiong ppl so close or those very linsi 4wd like tiong the small car in front then I'm to play abit

when overtook them , usually pull away far far ledi ...except got twice, it was a navara and a waja, it was two different occasions...they were behind me at 175-180kmph at max 1 car length or half. I was on a 1.5l honda city. them got balls doing 180 there cuz kk road easy to outrun others cuz kk ppl rarely high speed due to the highway only 2 lanes...and not level as in flat, so, very dangerous...the road condition not nice and quality like kl

these days hardly do more than 140 or 160. just too many cars now so not really got chance for a clear speeding....n highway condition really not good especially when they added the what u call that yellow strips of mini bumps...Wtf ...

I've driven in kl before and some highways in peninsular...I dont quite rmb those h/ways names though.
got once long time edi, forgot where I went but is interstate h/way, it's quite hilly & long , 3 lanes like that. I chasing to see 2 cars racing each other, a 3s & a c class I think....my city ran out of breathe at 160-170...difficult to exceed 170 like that cuz hilly. those 2 cars just consistently pull away lik 190 lik that...



This post has been edited by wayfeel: Dec 21 2012, 08:42 PM

Adoi... why were you already in fifth gear before you even touch your speedcut? MK6 GTi? Coz the MK5 GTi would have run out of breath before you do unless they have modded kau kau. At least our 4G93T can hold boost all the way to redline whereas the MK5 boost drops at high RPM. Even with our stock TD04 turbines, I could hold above 1 bar boost all the way to redline without it dropping.

Well not really 10 yrs. Evos and STIs still need over 3000rpm to spool, right? Of course already got much improvements but like you said, you still need to expect the lag and spooling time and not to mislead that all turbos can kick already from 2000rpm. And the bigger the turbo for more max power, the more apparent the lag and spooling become despite the technology.

I also have nothing against turbo cars cause in fact I'll take any Evo any day anytime over any VTEC cars, cuz I agree with you that turbo lag is less than VTEC lag while still giving more power in the end. But still need to admire Honda for introducing and taking the design approach of still sticking to NA with relatively small engines in order to achieve high power. It's like trying to emulate F1 engines, small but able to rev so high to get the power.

Aiya, we're already diverting some else topic. Maybe should revert back to the MPS.

This post has been edited by 6UE5T: Dec 21 2012, 09:04 PM

Ask me for the 18k rebate.

abang mazda only 18k ke?

Kita boleh masuk 'bincang'.

abang mazda no.1

this topic has been really informative ! love it.

me myself prefer torque all the way!

my 206 does the job over most stock cars

but i had zero chance with a scirocco blasting the shit out of me at LDP especially while i was running on crappy tires.

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Added on December 24, 2012, 11:56 amwhat car bro

This post has been edited by Ridt_Henshin: Dec 24 2012, 11:56 AM

206gti

really love it bro... for a 1025kg car, 190nm torque really does the job for malaysian roads