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> Military Thread V8, Ops Daulat

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TSyinchet
post Apr 9 2013, 11:08 AM

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QUOTE(MrUbikeledek @ Apr 9 2013, 10:55 AM)
I heard (unconfirmed sos) that Mindef override the Navy in SGPA. The navy want Konsberg NSM and Raytheon ESSM, But mindef instead go for VL MICA and Exocet MM40 Block 3. can anyone konfirm this?
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not sure.
but heard there were some argument. I would choose Aster instead ESSM or mica.
Exocet will by 2020 what the point of getting these missile not sure when will the MBDA stop production though. laugh.gif

QUOTE(FlameReaper @ Apr 9 2013, 10:56 AM)
Oh boy, we're sooo rojaking the MKM airframe into a pseudo-European aircraft whistling.gif
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Mica and topsighti already being integrated. but we did not use it. laugh.gif
TSyinchet
post Apr 9 2013, 11:13 AM

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QUOTE(die_257 @ Apr 9 2013, 11:10 AM)
Wow, that is good news for 2nd batch of MKM. Bout the typhoon, gomen have decided on it? not rafale?
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after ge we know who win.

TSyinchet
post Apr 9 2013, 11:19 AM

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QUOTE(noavatar @ Apr 9 2013, 11:16 AM)
....so can our mat rempits....I mean pilots do the Pacak....aka the Cobra Maneuver...like this SU 35
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without a problem they even modified it bits.
some1 post the video on our pilot doing all kind crazy maneuver in LIMA13
TSyinchet
post Apr 9 2013, 11:24 AM

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QUOTE(keown83 @ Apr 9 2013, 11:21 AM)
the big question is; will TUDM proceed to 2nd batch MKM in the future???
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depend on which fella in charge in the government. laugh.gif
It is highly believe the government is very fond to go on to the 2nd batch.
TSyinchet
post Apr 10 2013, 01:14 AM

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QUOTE(kerolzarmyfanboy @ Apr 9 2013, 10:13 PM)
btw, do they have any jets on the HTMS Chakri..? last time i heard all their harrier grounded..
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unfortunate no.
I think they have convert it to LHD role. biggrin.gif
their harrier have been retire. biggrin.gif
TSyinchet
post Apr 10 2013, 04:37 PM

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QUOTE(zimhibikie @ Apr 10 2013, 11:05 AM)
still doesnt hide the fact that Mindef is the lubok for songlaping for BeEnd pepol...and with many ex-military officers joined PAS and PKR, sure ly they also got now many details on military procurements..
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I dun mind they critic these and that.
but plz research properly before doing so.
It mean nothing to me if they simply shoot the point without good facts supporting them.

in fact, I hoping them to come out with good argument.
for example in AV8
-Development of 12 variants were too expensive and too big for local defense industry.
-We get too little and too many variants were it effective procurement?

or other defense thing like.
-were we get good coastal radar coverage in the our vast coast lines.
-Why are we not focusing on MPA as our country have vast coast lines.

these is the kind of argument most of our military enthusiast want.
We want our national benefits from decent argument.
not some huhaa bs these and that. which Mr. Tony and the opposition were good about.

I know uncle zim hate BN.
but that does not warrant PR to BS around no?
Sadly both BN and PR were not able give me a full comprehensive defense policies for the nation.

This post has been edited by yinchet: Apr 10 2013, 04:46 PM
TSyinchet
post Apr 10 2013, 04:39 PM

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the tiger heli training in french is part of the Ec725 deals. that what I heard off lar.

QUOTE(patt_sue @ Apr 10 2013, 11:39 AM)
Attack Helicopters Soon?

SHAH ALAM: Based on the chatter I heard during LIMA, it appears that the Army is pushing hard for funds to start the Attack Helicopter programme.
If you remember the Army Day Interview posting, it was stated that the Attack Helo programme remained in the Army’s RMK10 wish list. They also confirmed that the Army Air Wing pilots continue to be send to France to train to fly on the Tiger attack helicopter.
I was told that the Lahad Datu intrusion was cited as an example for the need for attack helicopters but even the Defence Ministry’s officials were aware that up-armed A109LUHs were good enough for that kind of situation.

With the pilots refining their tactics on attack helos in France, one may surmise any RFI and RFP on the procurement will undoubtedly favour the Tiger, putting the other contenders, the Apache and T129 (Mangusta), at a disadvantage.
Of course any funding, if any, will now depend on which coalition get to form the government in GE13. To be updated.

source
marhalim abas
–Malaysian Defence
http://www.malaysiandefence.com/?p=3290
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TSyinchet
post Apr 10 2013, 05:03 PM

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Boeing to demo Super Hornet enhancements in summer

Boeing and the US Navy have confirmed plans to demonstrate the use of conformal fuel tanks, a weapons pod and radar cross-section enhancements on the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet late this summer.

"We're actually doing a demo project this year, in concert with Boeing, to look at the conformal fuel tanks and the weapons pod there and some further signature enhancement efforts," says Capt Frank Morley, the Naval Air Systems Command (NAVAIR) programme manager for the F/A-18E/F and EA-18G. "That's not a navy programme of record but the demo is something that's supported by OPNAV [Office of the Chief of Naval Operations] and certainly by the programme."

Although Boeing and Northrop Grumman are leading the project, the upgrades are applicable for future USN Super Hornet and EA-18G modernisation efforts, Morley says. The F/A-18E/F fleet is expected to be the mainstay of the naval air forces well into the 2030s.

The test programme for the Super Hornet upgrades will initially be conducted at Boeing's facilities in St Louis, Missouri, but will later move to NAS Patuxent River, Maryland, says Mike Gibbons, Boeing's vice-president for the F/A-18 and EA-18G programmes. Tests will be conducted on a USN-owned aircraft that will be leased back from the service by industry for the flight demonstrations, he says.

While Gibbons says that Boeing and Northrop Grumman are funding the demonstration project, he declines to say exactly how much money the industry team is investing in modernising the Super Hornet.

But industry is also investing in other improvements to the aircraft that are not going to be demonstrated during the flights tests later this year. The most significant of those developments are General Electric's enhanced F414 engines. In previous years, GE had touted versions of the F414 with either greater thrust or greater durability, but current developments are focused on combining both of these, Gibbons says.

"Significantly more thrust, which provides great acceleration improvements," Gibbons says. "In fact when accelerating from Mach 0.9 to Mach 1.4 - it takes, at various altitudes, a third of the time than it currently takes with that enhanced engine," he says. "Huge performance improvement."

But the same enhanced engine could be software modified to provide the same amount of power as the current F414 variants but with much greater durability and fuel economy.

Boeing's analysis shows that the USN could save $5 billion with the improved engines installed over the life of the Super Hornet fleet, Gibbons says.

If the USN were to adopt the enhanced engines, the new enhanced variant would fit into the existing F414 engines bays with no modifications needed. Gibbons adds that Boeing designed the Super Hornet's inlets to provide enough air for an uprated engine from the outset.

sosej

TSyinchet
post Apr 13 2013, 01:35 AM

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QUOTE(Quantum_thinking @ Apr 13 2013, 01:29 AM)
I'll be surprised if we get to build Rafale if we buy Rafale.  rolleyes.gif
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building some of the parts yes.
building a whole aircraft that a mission impossible with our budget. biggrin.gif
TSyinchet
post Apr 13 2013, 01:40 AM

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QUOTE(atreyuangel @ Apr 13 2013, 01:36 AM)
India got to built Rafale, with 100% tech transfer
but what India and HAL wants now is Dassault to responsible of 108 rafale built buy the HAL if anything goes wrong
and Dassault says no as all capability is already given to HAL and HAL will be the one who builts it!
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not 100% though.
Thales spectra were not included. laugh.gif
Dassault want to have more control in QC parts, which I think they dun have much confident with India capabilities. biggrin.gif
anything goes wrong there will affected dassault as well.
TSyinchet
post Apr 13 2013, 01:50 AM

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QUOTE(kerolzarmyfanboy @ Apr 13 2013, 01:43 AM)
between MPA, Patrol vessel or attack helos..which is more important to procure with our tight budget we're having now..? i quite agree with Marhalim said in his website about opposing the army's plan to push Mindef to buy Tiger helos..
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The last thing I would get would be tiger.
here the list I would get from top priority to the lowest.

1. MPA
2. CB90's
3. below 1000tonnage patrol vessel.
4. UAV
5. Coastal radar upgrade and adding more coastal radar.
6. AW109 with FLIR and gun pod.
7. more 4x4 APC like the S5 or Gurkha LAPV.
8. more utility heli
9. Attack helo

dun worry though we are getting outside the military budget to purchase thing we need for ESSCOM. that what I heard.
TSyinchet
post Apr 13 2013, 01:58 AM

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QUOTE(Quantum_thinking @ Apr 13 2013, 01:50 AM)
The French then have a big ass dilemma then.

If i am the guy supplying PC components, i usually assemble for my customer so that no stuff like "sorry i bent the processor pin in the motherboard, How ah?" (not covered by warranty) can happen to me as i am responsible for one to one exchange for most of the PC parts i supplied within 7 days.

So, I do feel that how the French are feeling over this especially they are not told about they have to be responsible for something that is not within their control.

BUT!!!

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

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I believe the deal will go through with some compromise from each sides.
perhaps some JV french with the india company.
If we able to seal the rafale deal 1st, I wont be surprise if we are supplying parts for india rafale. laugh.gif
TSyinchet
post Apr 13 2013, 02:00 AM

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QUOTE(atreyuangel @ Apr 13 2013, 01:54 AM)
according to the list you gave?
MPA (second hand for short term is good enough for now, new ones for long term)
Patrol Vessel then Helos!
the deal is delayed not derailed
the Sukhoi solution if all deal not go thru
this is not small business, so every clause and terms must be check thoroughly!
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India is using these issue as a reasons to buy more sukhoi 1st.
I doubt they having huge problem with the deal. laugh.gif
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post Apr 13 2013, 02:02 AM

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QUOTE(noavatar @ Apr 13 2013, 01:59 AM)
What Dassault said was simple, if HAL builds Rafale, don't expect the aircraft to be in same quality like the 18 aircrafts they buy directly from Dassault:
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what they are trying to said is India does not have the industry to support the tech transfer.
they were not able to fabricate certain electronic parts.
I doubt india have the capacity to made Rafale radar and thales spectra parts.
TSyinchet
post Apr 13 2013, 01:28 PM

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QUOTE(ayanami_tard @ Apr 13 2013, 09:44 AM)
what's CB90s for? scorpion replacement?

well, considering the APC prob has been solved, in term of priority

1-medium lift helos
2-AEW
3-MPA
4-OPV
5-SPH
6-MiG29/F-5 replacement

as for others, they can wait
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CB-90s is Navy boat rempit not the CV-90 you are thinking off laugh.gif
TSyinchet
post Apr 14 2013, 02:06 AM

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seem like they will going to upgrade bharat electronics factory. hmm.gif
india have to buy lots of new machine to upgrade their current electronic factory.
if done it right surely will give a huge technology jump in their electronic sector. good luck for them.
TSyinchet
post Apr 14 2013, 03:04 AM

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The big problem with india is they do not have the industry to support such project.
their electronic fabrication industry is just too small and the machine use to fabricate those electronic stuff is just too outdated.
can they even do a 60nm and below electronic fabrication is a big question there. it will be very expensive upgrade. also they need to train lots of engineer in these. that alone will take at least 5 years?

another issue is with the airframe fabrication machine needed to be upgraded.
I'm not sure what kind of machine they are using though but if they have the problem to get those measurement right that a huge problem.
those airbus, boeing spending billions of dollar in purchasing those high precision machine.
TSyinchet
post Apr 14 2013, 03:17 AM

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not just quality issue. India were not able to produce every part in the aircraft.
the reality have just give india a huge slap big times.
which is y French have highlight several time on the india industry capabilities is not good as they think to support such project.

QUOTE(noavatar @ Apr 14 2013, 03:07 AM)
Here's a better angle to understand the Rafale deal standoff:
Disagreement over quality issues of proposed Indian-manufactured Rafale jet fighters have halted final contract discussions with Dassault, the aircraft's French designer and maker.

Dassault has moved to distance itself from quality issues through a proposal to make the deal for 126 Rafale jets into two separate contracts, The Indian Express newspaper reported.

The tender was sent out in 2007. Dassault eventually beat rivals EADS with its Eurofighter Typhoon, Boeing with its F/A-18E/F Super Hornet, Lockheed Martin's F-16, the Russian-made MiG-35 and the Gripen from Swedish firm Saab.

The initial $20 billion contract was signed in January 2012.

The deal made Dassault the preferred supplier to manufacture the first 18 so-called fly-away aircraft powered by 2 SNECMA M88 engines at its plants in France.

Indian state-run Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd. is to produce on license at its works in India the remaining 108 medium multirole combat twin-engine, delta-wing Rafale jets.

But negotiations between the Indian government and Dassault are at a standstill because Dassault said it can't be held responsible for the 108 aircraft made by HAL, the Express reported.

To this end, Dassault wants two contracts signed.

Dassault said it will supply manufacturing kits and equipment to HAL on time but after which the contract with HAL will take over and Dassault will play no further role.

The Express said India's Ministry of Defense is pushing for Dassault to be solely responsible for the sale and delivery of all 126 aircraft.

Negotiations have been fraught for some time surrounding the exact role HAL is to play, including to what extent the Indian business was going to have exclusive supply chain responsibility in India, a Press Trust of India report said.

The government has insisted that HAL must have total responsibility for the Indian manufacture of the aircraft including supply chain function.

With negotiations bogged down it looks less likely that there will be additional Rafales added to the original 126-aircraft contract.

The PTI quoted a government source in January saying more Rafales could be added to the initial deal. The possibility was raised during a visit by Indian Foreign Minister Salman Khurshid to Paris, sources close to negotiations said.

There is an option for procurement of an additional 63 aircraft for which a separate contract would need to be signed," the source said.

Export sales and licensing agreements such as in India are essential for upgrading work on the already expensive Rafale, an analysis last month by Defense Industry Daily said.

The Rafale owes its existence to the French government's decision to not participate in the development of the EADS Typhoon aircraft. The Rafale is a lighter aircraft more suited than the Typhoon to aircraft carrier operations -- a requirement for France, the Defense Industry Daily report said.

But indigenous development has been expensive meaning exports are needed to make production economical as well helping finance research for upgrades if the aircraft is to remain a viable alternative to its rivals.

A report by Bloomberg financial news agency last month said Canada started talks in January about an order for the plane in the face of mounting costs for the Lockheed Martin Corp. F-35 Joint Strike Fighter.

The Bloomberg report said Dassault Chief Executive Officer Eric Trappier believes the odds of a Canadian deal are sufficiently good that the aircraft maker is willing to spend the money to undertake a sales campaign.

http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Dassault...andoff_999.html
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TSyinchet
post Apr 14 2013, 03:25 AM

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QUOTE(noavatar @ Apr 14 2013, 03:15 AM)
yinchet... I think the technical aspect is only part of the problem...the worst is the supply chain issues..custodian role...project intergration....in simple terms...various parties can't work in a coordinated way
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I dun think they can't work in a coordinate way.
they did well in the mki.
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post Apr 14 2013, 03:43 AM

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QUOTE(noavatar @ Apr 14 2013, 03:32 AM)
Let's look n read between the lines:

1.  Dassault has moved to distance itself from quality issues through a proposal to make the deal for 126 Rafale jets into two separate contracts,

2.  Dassault said it will supply manufacturing kits and equipment to HAL on time but after which the contract with HAL will take over and Dassault will play no further role.

3.  Negotiations have been surrounding the exact role HAL is to play, including to what extent the Indian business was going to have exclusive supply chain responsibility in India

So in effect Dessault say...have it your own way...I'm not gonna be responsible...you guys go sort out who makes what....who gets which piece of the cake...how many pieces of the cake you want to dish out
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"exact role HAL is to play" and "to what extent HAL to have in supply chain responsibility in India". so in short what is the HAL role and how much control HAL have in the supply chain.
the third point is more likely toward HAL.
the 2nd point more toward to the manufacturing kits of airframe, engine, cockpit and radar.

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