the worst thing that u'd have to learn during practical training to me is client management. haih... mati ooo... if u cant manage ur client, they'll take the job away. then ur boss will come and kick ur ass!

may i comment?

why did u orientate the plan in such a way? usually we have north point pointing straight up, so we have weird orientations of the building, or the building pointing straight up (or perpendicular), with weird northpoint orientation. but never without both.

u should include the fence in the plan. i think it carries certain importance in determining the area of the masjid. u've managed to include this in section and elev, i dont see why not in plan.

and the last drawing is definitely isometric, not axonometric.

on practical trainings:

yes, big firms wont offer u more experience. they offer u bigger allowances and big name, but wont do much interms of providing what u need to fulfill ur practical training requirements. opting for smaller firms will allow u more experience especially in dealing with clients, suppliers and builders.

my work experience is relatively small, as i'm more involved in academia nowadays. i used to work with arkitek karya budi (KL) as well as zaini dubus richez (KL) back when it was just starting up. good experience from these two offices. btw, ZDR still have that guys-only policy i think hahaha. such a gay club

carrielyn, u can refer to ur thread in the education forum. i've replied quite extensively there. however, on work related issue, here's what i can say here:

being a female architect in design world is quite challenging, but not uncommon. women are as independent as men are nowadays, and they basically can do whatever men does, no doubt. but in the design world, emotion runs high all the time. u will find urself at the receiving end of insulting barks more often than not. lots of viscious people out there who are egoistic and self-centered and will not accept the slightest error.

architects crave for perfection. working for such people is not very healthy for ur heart or emotional well-being. especially when u're juggling between husband, house-stuff, children and what not. i'm not trying to put u off here, but take it as an advise. be prepared for what u're getting urself into.

he loves to fire up departmental meetings or any other academic discussions with political connotations, especially when i'm around, since he knows my strong ties to some political people

first, u need to differentiate between practical training (year out) and working during vacation/holidays. practical training is a requirement for architecture to allow students to have a taste of what's out there, as well as applying all theories that they've learned into practise with supervision from professional architects. practical training is actually syllabus based, and u are required to produce a report of the training (which comes with a log book).

working part time during the holidays is basically ur choice. the experience gained is to add to ur own knowledge and will not be assessed in anyway. it's also a method used by some students to "book" a place to work after they graduate.



firms love to take practical trainees. it reminds most of them of their school years. it also gives them a fresh kid to bully (coz they cant bully their own employee). these kids will join the office, get a load of stuff dumped on their shoulders and expected to perform. some do, some dont. those who do will get offered to work in the firm after they graduate.

my friend even secured a permanent job while training because the partners were so impressed with his abilities. he had his final year goyang kaki bcoz he's being paid RM1600 a month (which is a lot for a student).



so back to ur question: it's up to u. if the course do not require practical training, then it's a matter of choice.



congratulations to UIA by the way.

i dunno about UM, but UTM have already started taking international students. the courses are conducted 100% in english, while exams, assignments, reports and theses are conducted in the language preferred by the students (malay by default).

that would be LUCT. they ALWAYS have international students.

it depends. if u have an uncle or a friend of ur parents would be great. usually architects prefer not to take the "uninitiated" (term we give to those who never studied design) unless they can get something out of it. my father's friend used to gila2 show me everything about architecture (after my SPM), but i found out eventually he was trying to get a project out of my dad lol.

anyways, for the uninitiated, most u'll do is help to colour drawings (if they still do things manually). one that i did was colouring blueprints. i hated it. blueprints smell like piss! and somebody has to do it!

but here's the thing: u need to be able to READ drawings. not look at them. but READ. i know, it's hard to explain, but architects READ drawings. ur ability to pick this skill up (since u're not initiated) will tremendously boost urself in the eyes of the people in the office.

that's almost correct. "reading" a drawing is just like what it means: reading the meaning of symbols.

drawings have symbols, language, style as well as the message that it delivers. so anyone keen on doing architecture must venture into this new language. what does a small circle with a horizontal bar and the letter W 16 written in it mean? what is the difference between 0.3mm line and a 0.5mm line?

that kinda stuff. u'll learn the "language" on the fly when u start ur first year. good luck!

UTM's degree is currently recognized as RIBA part 2 equivalent (since 1980s i think). students applying overseas (UK, US, commonwealth) for work or continuing studies usually do not have any problems once the degree is referred to RIBA. although having actual RIBA recognition is a great bonus especially when applying to other countries.

UTM is currently conducted in 100% english, as we already have international students. no point having it in BM+english environment. however, UTM also believes in delivering the message in the fastest and most efficient way available. so if BM+english delivers it, we use it!

i cant speak for NUS, but yes.

for degrees nowadays is about RM1100 per semester. u might need to add accommodations to that, between RM300 - RM700 depending on ur type of accommodation. justin can elaborate this further. i'm not quite sure on the numbers.

i've PMed u. feel free to cut and paste it here.

yup, that's why everybody's applying to local universities, coz the government already paid 80% of ur actual fees. just so u know, non-citizens (overseas students) are paying almost the full amount. that's why their fees are much higher than local students. doesnt mean the govmnt is charging extra to them.

UiTM everywhere is almost always in BM. however, architecture is an exception. it is preferred that it is taught in english due to terminalogies and expressions that is better communicated in that language. last time when i went to visit UiTM shah alam, a lot of the students are able to communicate in english. although i'm not sure if its part of the curriculum, or the students themselves are already able to.

u see, architecture didnt go through the language shift rigorously as other fields in the 70s. so most of the terms and expressions are still in english. we tend to rojak everything together in order to deliver the message in the fastest way possible.


get a PC with a good graphics card, huge ram, fast and reliable harddisk, and preferrable those dual core chips. if u could afford the equivalent spec on a laptop, then get a laptop. and for god's sake atleast use original windows! lol...

last i checked LAM still hasnt recognized twinning programmes. although BArch in univ melbourne is certified with PAM part 2, that actually refers to students doing fulltime in melbourne. spend some time to call LAM and PAM to confirm about this. for LAM & PAM, it's not just the end product that is important, the journey itself is just as important as well.

however, if LAM and PAM gives the green light, i'd say good luck and all the best!

ahhh right. sorry i didnt notice the 'diploma' part. basically what LAM says is it does recognize (for any PAM qualifications) if any SINGLE certificate (for this instance, a degree) that allows a student to transfer credits in between two schools. in ur case, it's a diploma+degree. so that's fine.

congratulations again. u're on ur way to become an architect

architecture usually costs u quite substantial amount of money to study, not just for fees, but also for tools for work and also presentation stuff. but most of all, it will cost u ur sleep, and more often than not, your sanity.

the core of architecture is design. design is not just art, it is rationalization, understanding, logic, perception and problem solving all rolled into one. u will learn everything with design as a core: building structure & construction technology, architectural history & style, social behaviour, environmental aspects, theory, conservation, services and virtually everything to do with buildings.

but it doesnt stop there. students will also need to learn to manage a project and become a leader, business skills, practice, law and regulations as well as the training himself the designerly ways of knowing.



currently in malaysia, there are roughly 1700 practicing Professional Architects (with part 3) in malaysia. i can say there are less than that number in firms, due to most practice having more than 2 principle architects.

there are roughly 1500 Architects currently registered with lembaga akitek malaysia (LAM) holding part 2 qualifications with degrees from all over the world. however, to my understanding, only a small percentage of part 2 holders actually registers with LAM. if i'd use my batch as an estimate, i'd say 1500 is only about 40% of part 2 holders in malaysia. but then again, not all part 2 holders are working in the architecture field.

some have shifted to other fields like arts, film making, acting or other arts related businesses. u'd have to understand that in order for ANY project to proceed, one must seek a part 3 Professional Architect, not part 2. hence to this day, the ratio of architects to general public in malaysia is about 1:16,000. oversupply? not really.

i. there are 3 parts of "assessments" every semester. design crit/presentation/portfolio, written assignments and written exam (the usual). the ratio is mostly 50:30:20, and some may go into extreme as 65:20:15. whatever it is, design takes the bigger chunk of architectural education. and there is no equivalent of design subjects in ANY subjects when u're in school. pendidikan seni doesnt come close.

ii. nope. however, u need to be fluent in communicating ur ideas visually. u see, architects are selling stuff that is not even in production yet. they've ideas in their heads, so they need to convey that idea in any way they can. the traditional (and fastest) way is to draw. nowadays, u can use 3D softwares or even video walkthroughs. some architects can even talk their clients into buying the project. whichever ur way, u must be good at it.

iii. this can take very long to describe. but i'll simplify for u.

NONE. loved every bits of it.

iv. as i've mentioned before in (i.), there is nothing in school that could be compared to architecture learning. it's a whole new thing. but dont worry, the architectural curriculum is set to teach a person who knows ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about architecture. so even if u know a bit of it, it would be enough.

mine?

SPM > Diploma UTM (3 years) > Bachelor Hons UTM (3 Years) > MSc Virtual Environments UCL (1 year) > PhD in Architecture Education (current)

usually people stop at bachelor/degree, coz u can already practice then. some of my friends even took masters, coz it gives them the extra edge both in wage, post, and more importantly, that image ur portray to ur clients. i currently teach, but practicing part-time/freelancing as well.

Lembaga Akitek Malaysia is the official government body governing the architecture profession in Malaysia. as u understand, architecture is protected profession under msian law, and LAM is the body incharge. in order to practice, u need a license. to get a license, u need to register with LAM with an accredited degree. if u do not hold an accredited degree, it means u CAN NOT PRACTICE in malaysia. period.

that's how important it is. people may still employ u, but they will be liable if anything happens. for example, u wanted to build a house, and employ a non-licensed architect. u pay him RM70k for fees. he sends construction workers. suddenly accident happened, a worker died. he ran away. YOU will be liable for the whole thing.

this also applies at any point in the future. for example, if a child fell from a poorly design balcony from ur shopping complex, YOU will be liable, not the non-licensed architect.

u get the point.



so what if u study a non-accredited degree?

well, simple enough. while studying, KEEP ALL design drawings u have, assignments, exam papers. EVERYTHING. after u graduate, apply job and become either architect's assistant or technical assistant for awhile. gain experience for awhile. after u're confident enough, contact pertubuhan akitek malaysia (PAM), sort of akitek's club in league with LAM, who will organize an examination and interview to assess ur skills.

if u pass, they will grant u part 1. then apply immediately for part 2. sit another exam. (sometimes u can do both at the same time). so u will still be able to practice, after acquiring ur part 2.



remember, under malaysian law (as well as most countries in the world), no one without Part 2 qualifications can call themselves as architects. there is another level which is Part 3. architects holding Part 3 qualifications are called Professional Architect, and carries the title Ar. infront of their name. for example Ar. Abu bin Ali. now that carries a lot of weight, a dream of all architects.

go back n draw/sketch something for me:

"imagine ur future office. a room of ur own. what would it be like? would u like a huge plasma tv filling up a wall? a good view from ur windows? or how about a sexy secretary serving u coffee every hour?"

draw that, and put it here. i was part of the interview committee for UTM's architectural students admission. if u really wanna try, lets assume u're an applicant and i'm interviewing u. lets role-play a bit , and see where u are.



although drawing is essential to architecture, it doesnt mean everyone MUST be good at it. what is most important is how fast can u draw? a fine drawer is nothing in architecture if he only could produce a perspective in 5 days! an architecture student should be able to draw a perspective in a matter of hours.

in any university u'll go into, they'll teach u from scratch. even if they dont, they will assume u will teach urself to draw while they teach u how to design. it's a skill, and no better way to develop a skill than to practice, practice, practice.

a whole list of accredited universities in malaysia and abroad is available at LAM website. look under "accreditation>schools". i couldnt access the link, but u guys in msia might be able to do so.

before deciding, u must first understand this: there are 3 levels that u need to acquire, part 1, 2 and 3.

part 1 - architect's assistant, junior architect, technical assistant.
part 2 - architect, project manager.
part 3 - professional architect, the man.

it takes 5 years to get a part 2, anywhere in the world. it's usually a 3+2 degree, 3 years part 1 and 2 years part 2. having a certified part 1 (assuming in malaysia) allows u to proceed for part 2 any part in the world. schools accredited for part 1 in malaysia are UTM, UM, USM, UiTM, LUCT and UIAM. u can also sit for ur part 1 abroad (from a-levels) and later come back for part 2. but people always do the other way around.

if u prefer to take A-levels and proceed for part 1, u have 2 choices: UIAM and LUCT. other choices is to go for twinning programmes that immediately takes u for part 2 (overseas). almost all colleges offering architecture in malaysia is part of a twinning programme. u will study here for a diploma (3 years) and a degree abroad (2 years) after STPM/A-levels/foundation. this can be quite 6-10 times more expensive than studying locally.

if u DO decide to take twinning programmes, do check with LAM whether they recognize AND accreditate the studies. recognition is not enough. recognition without accreditation would mean u still have to sit for the qualification exams. without recognition means u cant even sit for the exam .

wherever u go, u MUST keep all ur works/projects. NEVER throw them away. that's ur life. if it's really good, people will still talk about them even after u graduated.



LUCT is expensive, but the course is well established. some of my friends graduated from UTM are teaching there. the course director is a close friend of mine as we used to teach together back in UTM. the 2nd top guy in LUCT is the ex-PAM president, prof datuk parid wardi, who is also ex-UTM deputy vice chancellor. most people who says its not good or this or that are people who havent been there.

This post has been edited by azarimy: Jan 4 2007, 12:36 AM

anybody who's interested in becoming an architect, refer to this topic:

http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopic=391777

it explains the routes u can take to become one.