In fact, BNM can get a few "freshly" joined investors to interview to check how the CONsultants telling them. Look at Senior Consultant LYN thread, she is hiring highly qualified person to be her "teammates", they are all trained to say the same thing, answering the same, doing the same, just like a clone.

But the real victims are the new investors. They joined because of HIBAH. Look at the interviews of people... They only talk about HEEBAH... their monthly income to survive.

But the senior CONsultant will denied, heebah is just a gift, can be there and can be not there...

But even no heebah for 1 month, you see alot of people crying for help.
Very obvious, they have covered up the truth!

The problem is most consultants and investors dare not tell the truth because they are led to believe that if they do they will jeopardise the company and therefore lose their gold/ money and they will lose their nice job if they company is shut down.

Actually why is that thread even allowed to exist on LYN? Why should LYN provide a medium for scammers to operate? After all, it is already illegal on LYN to sell illegal goods.

Agreed. Why did LYN condone and abetted the biggest Ponzi operation in the history of Malaysia (RM10 billion in liabilities)?? Why did it allow a whole thread to be a medium for Pat Lu's golden goose marketing platform??

This post has been edited by Akonn: Nov 4 2012, 09:14 AM

Can we say it is illegal when investigations are not completed? As far as I understand these companies are operating under a 'grey' area [no or few regulations] thus it is a situation where 'buyer beware' or 'high risk investment'. If the customers continue to state they are customers rather than investors then BNM maybe has no jurisdiction. I guess one way to decide would be if the customers take legal counsel and file legal action against the appropriate party....BNM if the legal advisor considers that BNM overstepped its legal boundaries or Genneva if there is evidence of breaching any current laws.

But i think even though the customers may say and claim that they are just customers, BNM may not and should not take that at face value and proper interpretation should come into force, right?

BNM knows exactly what they are doing. If a company takes in deposits on the fascade of trading gold but shows no profit generated in their biz plan eg. With buy back guarantees, also no gold handed out to customers after they have been paid and no ability to buy gold owing to customers - its then definitely illegal deposit taking. BNM is always careful to have enough evidence before they raid becoz it will affect the country's reputation and FDI. This is why they were so slow with GM. BNM definitely have jurisdiction on illegal deposit taking. They however have NO jurisdiction or power to redistribute the gold or money - that power comes from the court

Now their argument is, yes Heebah is not promised, but we never failed to get it all these years! its because the raid that now my heebah is stopped!
somehow the raid help genneva a great deal? instead of them having no more funds for heebah anymore that the pyramid collapse, BNM now become the villain

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Added on November 4, 2012, 10:05 ameven BNM or the judge may need decade to come to a verdict whether Genneva is guilty or not. hereby i dont think anyone moderate LYN has the right to say they r scammers

just don't be greedy and believe there's indeed too good to be truth.

This post has been edited by debbierowe: Nov 4 2012, 10:05 AM

Many, many, many bloggers have been proven correct. E.g. at Martin LEE'S blog, Lee Mei May, KLBull, PCWong, Cheah Ming Chee, Old Uncle, Uncle Gold, Almost Scammed, From Afar, Greenhorn, Annoying Me, ad infinitum, had been predicting for a long long time that GENNEVA is unsustainable and will collapse.

People who are deaf and blind to crystal clear logic, ignores all cogent reasoning, and rush in like lemmings for the slaughter, should only blame themselves, and not be further taken in by the GENNEVA masterminds ESP. the PatLulu, who exhorts them to blame the BNM, the Finance Ministry, the GOVT, and everyone else except their own stupidity.

One word to describe.. oxy-moron.
Eg Teh Tarik without Teh.
Ice lemon tea without Ice.
Heebah not important BUT without hibah, going to die.
Gold traders not Investors, but with buy back guaranteed!
Really oxy-morons!!!

stupid.. playing god? first put the blame on genneva and witch hunting this company when the verdict is not even out. a hypocrites statement. and said is giving out the truth here when nobody knows the truth until this goes into the court case.

This post has been edited by hackwire: Nov 4 2012, 11:01 AM

That is true, but nevertheless the Royal Family of Thailand is a tricky issue. I do not know if our government dares to anger them. I suspect that they might indeed be compensated fully for their loss in order in avoid a diplomatic incident. Even if they can't be compensated now, it might happen later at the expense of every other victim - y'know, pay out whatever is left to the Thai royals first, than only divide to the rest. While I do think that this is unfair, it is also none of my business. They can blame whoever was responsible for bringing the royals on board.

Also, I don't believe its fair to blame BNM or LYN forum for allowing these scams to pop up in the first place. Even the courts have to presume innocence until proven guilty. No one had absolute proof that Genneva was a scam when it first started.

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Added on November 4, 2012, 11:10 amWe have a right to suspect they are scammers. We have a right to warn people that what they are investing in might be a scam. We have a right to tell people to use their common sense. If it weren't for such warning, there might have been more victims who are exposed to it.

Nobody might know the truth, but that does not mean that we are not allowed to take an educated guess at what it is either. We are allowed to speculate on the outcome, else what did you think a forum is for?

This post has been edited by arubin: Nov 4 2012, 11:10 AM

You are partially right. However one thing to keep in mind is that, just because you cannot prove something, doesn't necessarily mean it's not true.

It would set a dangerous precedent if BNM is sued and forced to compensate the buyers, as this would hamper further enforcement efforts. You look at the Madoff scam which happened in the US, it ran for so long. However, early on some knowledgeable people actually lodged complaints to the SEC as they believed they found evidence that it was a scam. In fact it was investigated at least 8 times over 16 years, and they were unable to find conclusive evidence until the very end. Allowing BNM (or any other regulatory body) to be sued in this case could have serious consequences.

But the LYN Trade Zone already disallows grey area items. For example the rules prohibit these items:



Genneva is certainly an MLM scheme no matter how you slice it. Most reasonable people would also agree that it is a pyramid scheme from the very beginning, i.e. continued operation depends on and only on the continuing influx of new "investors".

This post has been edited by wankongyew: Nov 4 2012, 11:17 AM

yes u r right, stupid is a word for ppl like you who compare genneva & banks while not knowing anything about balance sheet. who blame genneva , you and your pathetic ad hominem attack, already warned once by the mod. yet another useless comments trying to play either fence sitter or genneva white knight.
we can't "blame" genneva , but its completely rightful for you and genneva to put all blames on BNM (including comparing banks with genneva regardless simplest accounting knowledge such as balance sheet), Awang Adek and BN government blaming trashing and asking to resign is fine too by genneva supporters? u r hypocrites & playing god

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Added on November 4, 2012, 11:29 amright on spot. differences of
suspect vs removed/nuked Pat Lu's CONsultant recruitment thread. i thought genneva supporters are good at differentiates and vocab

This post has been edited by debbierowe: Nov 4 2012, 11:34 AM

my coursemate is working in BNM, well he is a bonded scholar... saying that out here genneva are crying and urging while they still having 2 teatimes and 2hrs lunch per day. friday almost can say half day. ...

i saw the genneva malaysian supporters fb page... evryone is crying it has been 1 month, sigh... don't know what to say. but be prepare this will be going on for years or decade. but for besmino, they r told to have hong kong account and not forzen, what is their excuse not giving money back to their customers when the customers needed and request for it? are they some sort of admitting "Yes we took your money and we r not giving u back."?

as for genneva, really everything had been raided? none of the directors or owners of the company has come out to update any customers? my hometown is batu pahat, due to the location of the genneva branch there, quite a lot of uncle auntie familiar faces i saw on fb page and also newspaper.... thou i am glad my family immediate or relatives, none of them are involved! remember some consultant trying to talk my parents up in the church too. saying that its god's blessing that they find this solution of their financial freedom, phew... i think my parents' refusal to be investing in that is a blessing indeed.

Did the authorities raid ALL the Genneva branches? Just asking for clarification. All transactions are frozen and am wondering what happened to all the gold bars that were in the other branches if not all branches were raided.

As you probably know, the govt has mentioned that Genneva Gold has collected about RM10bilion from 30K people. I am curious, are these their own money or have they been borrowing - from Banks? Would a bank lend them money to invest in this scheme?

I agree that it could set a dangerous precedent but on the other hand, unbridled power can also be dangerous...
We do not live in an ideal world where there are always capable and ethical heads of departments.

BTW I am a great fan of the present head of BNM and I think it was a really brave move to act on this matter!

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Added on November 4, 2012, 1:52 pmThere had been some postings in earlier threads of this subject that some customers/investors may have borrowed from other banks using their genneva gold bars. Not sure how true though.

This post has been edited by JayCK: Nov 4 2012, 01:52 PM

Edit. Read wrong.

This post has been edited by jasonhanjk: Nov 4 2012, 02:38 PM