ok,i think its about time for break, see u guys in the future. Hope u guys enjoying ur ride. Salam n bye.

hi, sorry for late reply, super duper bz lately, maybe need a long vacation afterwards. On dbw lags, actually hard to adjust it, not bcoz incapable, but due to emmision cntrl, which prtn only use same setting across the region. Since it is manual, compare to cvt which still can alter its tcu(which is done by punch with prtn collaboration), its fix. Can adjust the clutch manually for make it easier to launch by make it shorter, but if wrongly drive it, may damage the clutch.

The only things left is ecu mapping. I dun know too much details on iafm+ ecu mapping coz its diff people responsible for the mapping part, for iafm+, n another for cfe. Maybe u can ask sc everytime servicing, whether there is an update, but mostly only branch eon@prtn sc has the facility@service.

Since preve is quite heavy, agressive mapping may cause pretty high fc. Mostly setting is to provide balance between reliability, fc n performance.

While waiting for any setting, just adjusted u style of driving when power is ur concern such overtaking n need to move fast out of junction. While dbw throttle is diff than cable throttle, u can see how fast the rev drop after releasing the clutch during 1st gear, rev higher, so that when it drop, just drop at the region atleast at 2k rpm where by around 80% of torque already generated, such reving to 2.5k rpm(only apply if u need to drive faster than usual daily driving.)

while overtaking, make sure everytime u drop ur gear to overtake, the rev is around 3.5k rpm to 4k rpm, to get the most torque, and stay in gear until reaching 5k rpm atleast b4 upshift coz to take advantage of the runner shift to short one to promote faster air n better combustion. But that is only for engaging driving, for normal, rev to max 4k rpm b4 upshift is just enough for overtaking, n shift to the highest gear as soon as possible after finish overtaking coz reving more, more horse power but also means more burns of fuel.

If u notice,in any manual car, the gear ratio choosen related to peak hp n peak torque available. Generally, like in iafm+ manual, peak hp is at 5750 rpm, peak torque at 4k rpm, so, everytime u rev at peak hp at 5750 rpm and upshift,the engine rpm will drop around 4k rpm on the next change, n u continue rev to max hp,upshift, the rpm will drop around the region of max torque until overdrive gear. Thats why high rev engine also have high torque at high rpm to balance it out, in na form of course.

It jsut general rules coz very engine has diff character, but the trans tuning is to balance out hp n torque coz if not, can cause severe drop in pulling power, can cause high fc but no use coz power is un accessible through out the rev range.

Mitsu 4g18, eventhough has a lower rpm for max torque, ideal for town driving, but if accessing the whole power like revving to max hp, its not reallyengaging coz torque is dropping too early, so it become slower n slower reaching top hp.

iafm@vis using supercharger concept, but the missing part is the supercharger :-). Nonetheless, the aim is to give out the best torque as can across the rev range. Unlucky that bod dont approve flx se manual for malaysia coz that baby can fly :-), sorry, overgerated a bit, actually really fast coz the weight is much lesser than preve by much, can play play with cfe turbo cvt if max to max rev counted and in the right hand of course:-).

N since preve iafm+ 1.3 tonne++, n most suitable torque which u feel the pulling power is coming out is around 3k rpm which nearly 90% of torque already generated which around 135nm. But for flx se manual, 110nm is just enough, n that shud be less than 2k rpm, thats why flx 1.6 iafm+ manual is fast.

Since iafm+ using torque based ecu, the fuel rail will injected correct amount of fuel so that the torque needed is achieve as fast as it could even using manual disguised. Thats why plonking previous iafm using loadbased ecu, even for manual, can be catasthrophy.

Actually, in c segment around the whole, even preve 1.6 iafm+ seems puny n little, but other makes do offer the same cc engine, n some even as small as 1.4l na engine for c segment car, but of course, normally in manual form. Only in malaysia thats its rarely seen@sold, maybe they know that malaysian seems to buy big car with big engine capacity.even pug 5008 offer 1.6 na engine in manual disguise. If not mistaken, there is civic 1.4l na version n 1.6l. Sorry if wrong about that coz cant remember exactly, seem rusting a bit now when i grow older :-).

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Added on November 8, 2012, 5:19 pmsorry, typo, around the world, not the whole, what is happening to old man nowadays :-)...

This post has been edited by mat79: Nov 8 2012, 05:19 PM

:-), u drove cvt flx se, if driving the manual one, its even better, but still the cat is in the bag. Hopefully drb will release the manual version of flx se coz its really engaging, n quieter too coz no whining from cvt. As i said on dbw, its more apparent since preve is way heavier than flx se, for flx 1.3 manual,its more or less the same. Still,the weight did cover it up.

10 points checking on product improvement.

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Added on November 9, 2012, 7:12 amhowever, there is still a room for improvement on dbw. Hopefully the keep continue improving it :-).

This post has been edited by mat79: Nov 9 2012, 07:12 AM

good to hear they r continue doing the improvements. Actually, already being done since exora launch where by post production car still houvering around even after launch to check whether any fault with mass production compare to pre production n prototypes. All complaints n comments are highly appreciated. Seems the 'internet division' are doing their jobs. Happy to see it. Hopefully, this will continue n being better overtime n inline with commited to be better. Bye all one more time. Time to take a break, away from bzness that quite occupied for long.

just a short drop by, for no 1, its normal, but better checked whether the battery conector is well intact@tighten.

No 2, if normal speed turn interminent speed during stopping the car,its normal coz that is one of bcm functions. But if its till in interminent mode while driving,but the indicator on normal speed, then need to recheck the stalk@bcm module.

No 3, just warm up a bit b4 driving, 1 minute shud be enough to allow the cvt properly lubricate, n dont shift too fast between the gears, especially in D mode to R, from R mode to D, coz it involve planetary gear change for reversing to give it fix gear ratio, while d mode is using pulley to give it infinite ratio.

Same goes who r have encounter once a while dying when engaging reverse gear, unless its pertinent, then its ocv valve for cfe engine(not preve, but also for bold). Iinm, they already improve on that matter on the later production of the engine. Same as owv n vvt sprocket which being recall on affected engine batch previously.

By again, to cntinue enjoying my holidays.

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Added on November 10, 2012, 11:35 amif take good care of the maintenance, it shud serve u well. Especially the coolant n gearbox oil part which many campro owners previously seems to have their own method by using other makes coolant, using water, never properly flush coolant every 40k n refill back using correct coolant,using diff rating of gbox oil n etc. On engine alone, many properly maintain engine already past 250k km without probs according to prtn record of service, just wear n tear parts need to replace on time such fuel filter(which many ommited), feadbelt, timing belt n etc.

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Added on November 10, 2012, 11:38 amand dont drive exceeding 3k rpm or 100kmh for 1st 1k km coz the lube need to properly lubricate all the cylinder, being die cast iron based, the surface isnt smooth as alluminium based, hence need sometimes to properly lubricate. Same as other reason why break in rules apply.

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Added on November 10, 2012, 11:42 amn about spark plug chip in the engine, of course, since spark plug is in the engine,if any piece of things slips inside the combustion chamber,in any engine, it can cause troublesome to the engine. Wah,so many things to write, sorry for not explain deeply coz on holidays. Time to totally offline.

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Added on November 10, 2012, 12:03 pmhaishhh...some people did in other thread keep find out fault of prtn cars...if my memory has a good recall, nearly none of other makes launch their car 1stly here aka early batch except if not mistaken lancer gt. When the cars arrive here, most of the probs already iron out, some even decide to throw old tech coz newer tech can be troublesome until most of the probs being iron out. But still some prob still bugging some makes n models even already in the market for a long time.

If people care to read the responds n comments around the world when the product is firstly reveal n launch(1st batch in the world), then nearly all are not trouble free, whether its under toyota, honda, beemer, merc,vw, kia, hyundai, ford n etc.

Is like people say cvt is unreliable,useless n etc, that why the japs toyota n honda ditching it for proper auto, then need to look back why they offer cvt the their own people while ditching the proper auto? Is it they r selling a bad things to their own, n offer better to us?

Haishhh...tired already. But really nice to know that some people did understand. I dont want to point out any specific product, but the highly rated product in malaysia currently, which seems trouble free(dunno whether really trouble free coz some did keep it in private owners discussion), but not in other countries where it launch earlier on....

Sorry for the rant. Just feeling sad...bye.

This post has been edited by mat79: Nov 10 2012, 12:03 PM

u can change the timing of the wiper, its in the bcm module. If not mistaken, the method is on the 1st page. There many things can be change throughout the bcm module.On not wipe properly, i do think its relate to the wiper blade, not the wiper.

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Added on November 10, 2012, 1:53 pmyup, bcm is available across exora n preve. Read on the bcm module, what its offer, then u will know.

For no 3, what i mean is cvt clutch lube. It wet clutch cvt anyway, if the clutch isnt properly lube, during take off it will jerk. Normally when cold start n car left for long hours.

Sorry to hear about ur waja, its not ur fault,its prtn fault since they r still learning develop the car, and waja was their 1st attempt. N after 12 years, waja was develop in 2000 n launch in 2002, many things have change.

Im not sad at u guys, just others in other website@thread that keep bashing recklessly without understanding the actual facts. No wonder other makes enjoying fruitful profit even tax are the same nowadays, overcharge malaysian, coz we just accept it with open heart. It seems contis r giving the fair price here with the new tax structure, while others dont seem to care. Like some said,why fix if aint broken. Why need to reduce price if the sale still the same, enjoying a big profit margin by offering less. People dont care about the tax now the same,people just blamming prtn for the price, no need to do anything. So, less is more then :-),less equip, more on pricing.

This post has been edited by mat79: Nov 10 2012, 01:53 PM

even im on vacation, but i feel obligated to answers some of the questions even i'm not related to proton :-).

About 3k rpm rules b4 1k km, during downhill, if downhill engine braking is applied auto by tcu, it means engine is driven by the cvt@gbox, not ur throttle, it is ok, but still can cut off the engine braking by put in pedal pressure@throttle,it will go without engine braking.

About the engine harsh sound, dunno, which one, but if i not mistaken, they replace it with pet 15w 50 which is thicker, thus engine need to work hard n produce more sound. I already suggested few pages ago about engine oil n did recommend 5w 30 previously if u read back. N shell that r u using is semy syn, n the fully syn is 5w 40, but u can get petronas fully syn 5w 30@5w 40 rating. Even 0w 30 if u have the money. But i dont think 0w 30 is much needed. 5w is suffice enough for daily ride.

In order to top up the coolant, most recommended is top up with coolant. Just by a bottle, just enough to top up untill futher reflushing needed. But u can still mix it with deionised water@distill water aka battery water. Not ro water@mineral@filter@tap water.

If me, i will emptied the resevoir that fill with mix water, n replace it with original coolants which actually already premix with correct mixture. N one more thing, u can bring ur own 5w oil next time, n never ever mentioned that u change the oil b4 hand outside. But really worried if the oil filter isnt the original one which diff in packaging which can be seen by the foreman. Hopefully its the oe one, so, they wont notice from outside. Inside,is diff story then.

About preve cfe hu, if not mistaken, nissan also used it for sylphy(the same bosch unit),which if i not mistaken,sylphy is almera big brother. May be im wrong then.

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Added on November 11, 2012, 10:33 amon another note, on side mirror, there were numerous complaint abour gen2 dife mirror design which design with fin to facilitate aero dynamic but scarificing a bit by making the blind spot bigger. So, now they change it to a bigger one, which is better for its main function, view, rather than aerodynamic form.

On engine note, yup, engine note is louder, plus the engine sound drone coz cvt, u r rev continuously at the same rpm, n cvt whining. The manual will be diff. If u have opportunity, test drive saga flx manual n cvt version, u will notice the diff in engine note, n being manual, no cvt whining :-). Even in flx, which is less sound deadening, the manual is quieter. May be u can refer to caradvice.au, they just recently test drove both cvt n manual flx.

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Added on November 11, 2012, 10:38 amn by the way, many forgetting body control module which is normally offered by higher end model which available across preve n exora. Just notice perodua discard auto lock function due to safety reason coz they dont have auto unlock function during collision which actually included in bcm.

For high level japs n even korean, they offering some of these functions, which is more than twice price than preve@exora, but to get almost all same functions as in preve n exora, u need to fork out more to high end model.

Sadly, many dont notice that.

This post has been edited by mat79: Nov 11 2012, 10:38 AM

i think the mostly regarding overcranking sound is solve. Really happy many that already upgraded satisfy with the new mapping. So, how's business allen? Really happy to note that one of many dealers joining their hand together helping out.

hi all, about the engine oil, yup, petronas offer in semi syn form of 5w 30, but what i suggest is more on fully syn which easily found in any petronas station, for 5w rating. Yup, some dealers are afraid when using diff oil, but its mention clearly in the warranty agreement that its not specified any brand, just recommend to use petronas brand, n it mention to use the same rating@better than recommended.

About coolant, its actuallt weston based coolant, hard to find outside, but still available. For hassle free, just buy from any prtn sc@parts.

And about rpm high n low, i think what he mention earlier isnt the rpm high n low issue when lifting the clutch, its when u cold start, suddenly move to d mode@r mode, suddenly rpm went crazy a bit, up n down many times.

Actually, its not that cfe is being given much update, previously cvt did being update even for flx. For cfe, when they change the strategies for cvt, so,need compliment with ecu mapping to make it perfect.

Since cfe has enourmous amount of torque at low rev which previously being cut@torque reduction apply, so, by changing the strategies, it allow more torque to be applied. While in iafm+ form, not much torque reduction being applied since the torque isnt that high at low rev. To be honest, on engine alone,cfe already generate more than 150nm torque at 1.5k rpm, which iafm+ need to reach 4k rpm to get the same amount of torque.

The only thing they can do is to sharpen a bit on dbw(which involve ecu) during the launch. What happen is, preve weight is heavier than flx. In 1.6 form manual flx, it doesnt poise the same reaction as preve, even with the same tuning, its responsive. So,its really a tough job for them to tune it, especially when try to meet emmision n fc n power in balance form. If u notice, they also try changing how the tcu react n even change diff contstant ratio on iafm+ cvt to facilitate fc. For manual, its really hard coz no tcu involve, just playing with the ratio.

Im not so sure whether currently they r doing anything to give it a bit boost., hopefully they do.

what do u mean by old proton hero? Wira era i presume. Wira still using throttle cable system, so its totally diff from than dbw. Yup, so much talk around the world about dbw throttle lag during take off(easier to control emmision during low rev than throttle cable), but dbw is better interm of efficiency, means better power delivery with how much fuel used when its already on move with the same engine.

Many people cursing coz not using cps. Ok, lets me share a bit story that i know. When pheonix project is planned, it just for turbo variant only. The budget is enough to focus on turbo variant. There are 2 base engine, 1st is original campro with distributor design@ iafm which using distributeless design n better injector than 1st gen campro which cps is based on and iafm campro based already been tested using 32bit ecu(persona elegance), while campro n cps still using 16bit ecu. So, they choosed iafm campro based since its better, less time to develop n easier to meet the objective n costless than 1st gen campro coz many things need to change including the injector systems n intergration with 32bit ecu. Time n budget is really crucial to prtn since dont have much time n money to spend.

During the project running, an idea come out, since prtn still need na engine that meeting the same emmision objective, which cps isnt unless some changing are needed, which will be another cost since cps n cfe using diff based engine, so, by sharing some components from cfe, n revert it back to na form where it is based on. So within same budget which supposed to develop turbo variant, they manage to come out with na n turbo variant.

Why exora still use cps? Already mention earlier, iafm+ dont meet the objective of minimum 80hp pertonne. Even torque is better, achieve max torque lower than cps, and better spread of torque, the relation of torque n hp still intact. U know how heavier exora than preve.

Another note, upgrading cps to meet higher emmision control, not only cost higher than iafm based, but the hp n torque, will be reduce, so, if that so, its not really make sense to do so. To maintain the same torque n hp in cps, means more time need to spend in rnd, it also means more cost need to be spend, while prtn really need the turbo variant for future.

So, cps still euro 3/4, but iafm+ is euro 4/5. This is really crucial if prtn need to go global. When prtn said using cps cost more than iafm+, that was the meaning.

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Added on November 12, 2012, 12:33 amthats why, maintenace schedule is nearly the same for cfe n iafm+ except for spark plugs n air filter, but iafm, cps, campro, share the same schedule of maintenance. Another obkective during pheonix project is prolong servicing vital components so that can reduce the cost of ownership.

Its a hard decision that prtn need to make. I have to solute the engineers involved to come out with the idea, n they r really competent to make it a success within the same time frame given with the same budget given. If not, there wont be flx, or even cheaper preve variant. They can plonk cfe in all variants, but the price diff wont be that big.

As for leather seats, yup, initial plan was premium will equip with leather seats n it will be german made cow leather, but since need to be set the price really low(the leather is not cheap by the way), so, where the cost cutting measure can be done, it had to be done. Even the material used in preve interior seems cheap for many, but it isnt cheaper than exora's and its expensive than exora.
Many said not global enough, yes, i do agree if u pit it with a real global car. But to develop a global car, with time, manpower, n budget constraint, for me it is commendable, n its global enaugh. Its not cheap to consult with italdesign n magna even co develop braking sytems with trw. Engaging punch n getrag also not a cheap skate. Engaging conti for bcm systems also doesnt come cheap, but luckily that was done during exora development. Spending on hpf machine also not cheap. Prtn can used same technique n material of exora since they share the same platform to reduce cost like waja with gen2 n persona, but they know they need to make preve better than exora in many aspects. Can used original torsion beam to save cost as in exora, but they still change it n even make it better even using multilink, boot space isnt much sacrifice.

With nearly same budget as exora, prtn develop preve which is nearly totally diff n even better in manyaspects than exora.

And i believe, they can do even better with a partner, with more money injected for rnd, n more sales to cover up the money spends.

So, gudnight everyone. Hopefully prtn is doing somethg for iafm+ owners whether flx@preve.

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Added on November 12, 2012, 12:33 amthats why, maintenace schedule is nearly the same for cfe n iafm+ except for spark plugs n air filter, but iafm, cps, campro, share the same schedule of maintenance. Another obkective during pheonix project is prolong servicing vital components so that can reduce the cost of ownership.

Its a hard decision that prtn need to make. I have to solute the engineers involved to come out with the idea, n they r really competent to make it a success within the same time frame given with the same budget given. If not, there wont be flx, or even cheaper preve variant. They can plonk cfe in all variants, but the price diff wont be that big.

As for leather seats, yup, initial plan was premium will equip with leather seats n it will be german made cow leather, but since need to be set the price really low(the leather is not cheap by the way), so, where the cost cutting measure can be done, it had to be done. Even the material used in preve interior seems cheap for many, but it isnt cheaper than exora's and its expensive than exora.
Many said not global enough, yes, i do agree if u pit it with a real global car. But to develop a global car, with time, manpower, n budget constraint, for me it is commendable, n its global enaugh. Its not cheap to consult with italdesign n magna even co develop braking sytems with trw. Engaging punch n getrag also not a cheap skate. Engaging conti for bcm systems also doesnt come cheap, but luckily that was done during exora development. Spending on hpf machine also not cheap. Prtn can used same technique n material of exora since they share the same platform to reduce cost like waja with gen2 n persona, but they know they need to make preve better than exora in many aspects. Can used original torsion beam to save cost as in exora, but they still change it n even make it better even using multilink, boot space isnt much sacrifice.

With nearly same budget as exora, prtn develop preve which is nearly totally diff n even better in manyaspects than exora.

And i believe, they can do even better with a partner, with more money injected for rnd, n more sales to cover up the money spends.

So, gudnight everyone. Hopefully prtn is doing somethg for iafm+ owners whether flx@preve.

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Added on November 12, 2012, 1:19 amgood to hear then. By the way, can u guys share some finding, between full cvt mode versus full manual mode(by pulling to the left)and also sat for iafm+ version versus full cvt mode, the diff in feeling during take off in the 1st gear, from standstill to move. Urs finding is highly appreciated. Tqvm.

This post has been edited by mat79: Nov 12 2012, 01:19 AM