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English Clubs Liverpool FC- The Kop Talk 2012, Liverpool 0-2 Arsenal - 2nd defeat!

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dillonyong
post Aug 22 2012, 05:13 PM

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QUOTE(cherroy @ Aug 22 2012, 05:05 PM)
Possession does not score you a goal, nor win you a match until someone in the team can make a decisive, creative passes/good crossing to be attacked upon, and strikers or anyone put into the net.

Liv last year had plenty of possession, plenty of passing, but history speak itself.

The 4 teams mentioned, have possession but also know to score.

Liv last year problem was all about put the ball into the net, not about not knowing how to play football nor passing issue nor not having enough possession of the ball.
This is the key problem of the team, conversion of chance made!
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You have a point but last season they lost the ball on too many occasion as well which led to many goals scored against us. The policy now is, keep the ball, 6 to 7 seconds to steal the ball back and short passing. Of course we have to improve on goal conversion. Let's wait and see if Dempsey is coming. Just read that some jokers linked us to Kaka. What a total rubbish.
dillonyong
post Aug 22 2012, 05:30 PM

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QUOTE(Petre @ Aug 22 2012, 05:22 PM)
old story...
luck...

again...?

we have most of the possesion and yet we lose from opponents' one chance and one goal...

so its luck.. or our own making?

no matter how many people put in our net, we just have to make sure we put more into theirs. football basics. we couldnt even get that right...

and the trend is continuing.. until we finally get a proven goalscorer. i dont know why we cant even do the obvious. sign a goalscorer!  doh.gif
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Yeah. It's quite frustrating. I thought Borini would solve our problem after seeing his fantastic debut goal. Apparently not. And all the news about Caroll being forced out is disturbing. Ever since Owen and Torres, we dont have a person that contributes 30 a season. It's not even alot to ask. Messi got like more than 60 goals last year alone and Ron also. That's the total number of goals the whole Liverpool team managed to score last season. Pathetic!


Added on August 22, 2012, 5:38 pm
QUOTE(cherroy @ Aug 22 2012, 05:26 PM)
Talk is easy, I want to see it on the field, there is too much talk about possession football, Swansea football.

As I said earlier post (last week or so), do not carry away, over-optimistic until 5-8 matches had played.

We may talk about relegation battle after 5-6 matches.
Sorry do not mean too pessimistic, until seeing some positives sign about the how the team play, it is too early to talk so much about possession football.
Be realistic, instead being in dreamland of possession football.  smile.gif
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Unfortunately, it is not going to happen overnight. Right players need to come in to suit with the formation. And we are begging for the right results along the way. Someone has to start the foundation or else we will forever be playing Kiki Lala, not Tiki Taka.

Possession football is not about being stylish. It is the best defense rather than kicking the ball away and praying. I almost fainted when I watch the way we played against AC Milan in 2005 CL final. We won. It was lucky. 9 out of 10 we would have lost if we play like that.

This post has been edited by dillonyong: Aug 22 2012, 05:38 PM
dillonyong
post Aug 23 2012, 09:36 AM

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QUOTE(cherroy @ Aug 22 2012, 10:58 PM)
Possession football, like pass between midfielders is useless to win a match.
That's why I personally do not fancy using stat alone to judge a player.

A playmaker or creative midfield can always try some brilliant passing, defence splitting passing move, but low in pass conversion (as difficult to make it perfect each time), but he is not a poor player, as long as 50% of the pass is indeed create chance for teamate to score, he is a good player.
vs
B midfield, always play safe, short passing, pass between midfielder teamate and defenders, he may chalk up passing completion rate 99%, but is not an effective midfield to win you a match.

You need slick passing, creative passing, brilliant 1-2 movement, off the ball movement, make opponent defenders out of position, create space, opportunity to shoot, only then this kind of possession football is useful to win you a match.
*
Possession football is also important for defense. It may not win you a match, it may save you from losing. Of course the boys have not master it correctly yet. Dont judge so quickly.
dillonyong
post Aug 23 2012, 10:55 AM

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QUOTE(Petre @ Aug 23 2012, 10:49 AM)
what was Rafa's Valencia called then? hmmm... tiki taka or not, our recent best years were when Rafa still had Alonso. Liverpool were so interesting to watch especially during those european nights
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I believe it was Tinker-Tinker. Because he keeps changing the starting eleven every week. He's a tactical genius. Miss him.
dillonyong
post Aug 23 2012, 11:30 AM

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QUOTE(cherroy @ Aug 23 2012, 11:24 AM)
Save from losing?
Repeat it for 38 matches for the whole season, not to lose, aka ended up draws.
You have 38 points, which is potential relegation candidate.

A win is equivalent 3 draw.

I prefer to win 3 matches and lose 5 matches, instead of draw 8 matches.

Yes, that's what I am saying, don't judge so quickly about possession football, don't over-optimistic just because got a new manager.
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Wow. This debate can never end. You sound like the pastor that i always argue with. LOL.
If I said, it's good, there's always 2 or 3 reasons to say it can be not good. If I said it's bad, there's always 2 or 3 reasons to say it is not that bad. LOL

To continue this debate is abit like masturbation without getting a pay off. LOL. Ok, you win. LOL
dillonyong
post Aug 23 2012, 11:41 AM

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QUOTE(PPZ @ Aug 23 2012, 11:39 AM)
Maybe you guys spam email to BR and ask him what to do is better right? lol
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What's his email address? brendan.rodgers@liverpoolfc.com ? Hehe
dillonyong
post Aug 23 2012, 05:46 PM

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Sahin's agent is in Anfield? Can we trust Daily Mail?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/...ol-Arsenal.html
dillonyong
post Aug 23 2012, 06:04 PM

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QUOTE(digitalove_70s @ Aug 23 2012, 05:52 PM)
the news already spread out in several newspaper, notably Marca (real madrid official newspaper)

MARCA SOS
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Looks like the boy is coming to Anfield afterall. If he comes, we gotta thank Mourinho for supporting his buddy BR.
Cant wait to see him playing alongside Suarez.
dillonyong
post Aug 24 2012, 09:38 AM

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I firmly believe Dempsey is coming and Sahin's deal is going to be confirmed as well, hopefully today.

Dempsey is already doing all the monkey tricks because Fulham is holding out for a higher valuation. Liverpool is not willing to pay over the odds for him hence he is requesting to be transfer listed and skipping trainings. First time I see a player so determined to join Liverpool that he would almost do anything. smile.gif
dillonyong
post Aug 24 2012, 10:06 AM

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QUOTE(vreis @ Aug 24 2012, 09:50 AM)
yeah, & we all know how we felt back then. Key player wanting to go & went on strike????? WTF shakehead.gif They're pro, shouldn't do this kinda thing, its not like to club don't pay him salary shakehead.gif  shakehead.gif
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Well. Imagine yourself working in Karusha Private Limited as a Senior Marketing Manager and Microsoft International is offering you the position of General Manager and Karusha is doing everything to stop you from going. They hold out your resignation citing that the decision maker is not around, they find excuses to fine you, they hold you responsible for many things suddenly and they refuse to offer you a better deal. smile.gif

What will happen? You'll be b****ing about them in Lowyat forum about "injustice". LOL.

Players are no different. Everyone is greedy for ambition or money. You think just because they are professional footballer they are going to swear loyalty to their club. You are mistaken. Clubs also dont show loyalty to their players most of the time. You cant blame them.


dillonyong
post Aug 24 2012, 10:20 AM

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QUOTE(vreis @ Aug 24 2012, 10:14 AM)
Well imagine u working in Microsoft with 5 years contract. Suddenly Apple Inc wish to offer u better "prospects". Do you go on strike just to force Microsoft to accept your resignation?
Why would you signed a 5 years contract when you can opt for yearly rolling contract? Job security rite? & why would Microsoft bowed to Apple Inc when its perfectly their right to safeguard their own interest unless apple Inc pays compensation to Microsoft.
Club & player both safe guard their own interest, to go on strike to force thru a move is just unethical bordering unprofessional. What if RM come calling the year after he joins us, goes on strike again???
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I take it that you are asking my opinion. If my dream is to one day join Apple Inc, yes I will go on strike. It's my dream company. How often do you get this chance that Apple comes knocking on your door and giving you a good deal?

You can beg to differ to justify your own thoughts. It's my opinion anyway.
dillonyong
post Aug 24 2012, 10:41 AM

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QUOTE(vreis @ Aug 24 2012, 10:32 AM)
& that is what we called as unprofessional. If you are angling/hoping for a better company to come calling, then don't sign multi years contract, simple isn't it? Because you are greedy to sign a 5 years contract, when apple comes calling mid term, you goes ard crying for release from contract? Once signed you are bound by the contract. I don't see why the club/company have to cave in to your demand. So unless Apple or whatever big company buy you out from the contract, I don't see the the need for Microsoft to entertain your wants & whims. Afterall you shud have think properly of all pros & cons before signing a long term contract.
If you go on strike, I'm sure Microsoft would take legal action against you & it won't paint a good picture of you in professional line. Same can be said for footballer, they want want to be governed by labour law, I don't see why they should be exception to the rules as they wish.
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If Microsoft demands for 500k to buy out your contract when your value is just 150k and Apple make a bid of 220K, of course it holds you back. You will have to go on strike and it's up to them to decide whether they want to keep an unhappy employee or accept the offer from Apple.

Did I not say that people are greedy for their ambition or for money? With your level of integrity and loyalty, I think you should be politician.

I will vote for you. smile.gif
dillonyong
post Aug 24 2012, 11:04 AM

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QUOTE(Petre @ Aug 24 2012, 10:59 AM)
wats this involve microsof and aple pulak...

i dont think aple or anyone would want a badly behaving employee. if you can do it to them, you might one day do it to me. employee loyalty counts in organizations that value them. just my thought anyway

but i do agree with chitchat. but i think dempsey should be more professional. he has a contract to play ball, so he should honor it. if we really want him, we should just table a bid. player should never get involved other than to say yes i want to move, but not playing?

people say player power is too much these days, but i think player power is too little, hence such things happen. in a free economy, players should be given the right to choose. if he dishonor the contract, then he should compensate/pay/buyout the contract. that will be more fair to all parties

what you think?
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As much as I love Liverpool, we are at fault here, my friend. He was valued at 7.5 million by Fulham and they are ready to sell him anytime. Liverpool thinks that it is too much for a player that has only 1 year left on his contract and already 29 years old. Rumors has it that they offered Adam and Spearing to knock the valuation down but was rejected as Fulham is holding out for 7.5 million cash transfer.

We wanted to bargain unprofessionally and the best way is to turn the head of the player. This tactic is used by Real Madrid all the time.
dillonyong
post Aug 24 2012, 11:16 AM

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QUOTE(vreis @ Aug 24 2012, 11:09 AM)
These kinda tactics are widely used in order to get their targets. Its good when we're turning the heads of other clubs players but once we're in their shoes, it left a bitter taste in the mouth.
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That was exactly what I was trying to tell you. Reality. Players and clubs are realistic and mean. They are not always going to be your average hero in your TV when you watch them week in and week out. They are people and they are management. All think of the best interest to themselves.

Liverpool also wanted to push Caroll out earlier. Look at what they were doing to him. At the end of the day, you sometimes have to take care of your own interest.


Added on August 24, 2012, 11:18 am
QUOTE(Petre @ Aug 24 2012, 11:12 AM)
be a top club, then we will be predator and not the prey biggrin.gif
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Haha. Agree. I rather enjoy watching us being predator as we have been preyed by Real and Barcelona too many times in the case of Owen, Alonso, Arbeloa and Mascherano.

This post has been edited by dillonyong: Aug 24 2012, 11:18 AM
dillonyong
post Aug 24 2012, 11:47 AM

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QUOTE(vreis @ Aug 24 2012, 11:22 AM)
Easier said than done unless you are Rm or Barca. Even top Italians club lost their appeal nowadays.
On side note no matter how top you are, some players will want to ply their trade in Spain esp players from latin countries, maybe culture???
I agree with that. & Carroll also has the right to reject those offers , & rejected he did right? Thats where contract comes into play.
I can't imagine or even believe that a player can be sold against his will. Who's signature is it at the end of the day??? Or did the club point a gun asking him to sign contract with new club? even then he can annul the contact citing duress.
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At the end of the day, whatever that benefits Liverpool, I will be happy. We get ripped off too many times, so it's payback time! Haha.

By the way, this BR's comment on Nuri Sahin loan deal.

"Hopefully in the next 24 hours we will get some confirmation on that," said the Liverpool manager after his side's Europa League win at Hearts

Hope that all the drama will be over and we get our men - Sahin and Dempsey. Then hopefully Adam Johnson.

Some fans here commented about wanting Liverpool to sign Scott Sinclair instead. This is very unlikely judging by the bitterness of Swansea in the Joe Allen's transfer deal. They refused to grant him the freedom to play in our pre-season friendlies. Just showed how pissed they were.
dillonyong
post Aug 24 2012, 01:48 PM

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QUOTE(farisq @ Aug 24 2012, 12:57 PM)
Soccernet:

Jol when asked about Dempsey

He added: "I never said he's gone on strike. It started during our pre-season tour to Germany. I was probably a bit naive, asking 'Clint, do you want to start?'. All he said was 'You know what I want'.

-------------------

It sounds like a script in a movie lol
*
The conversation may be like this

Jol: Clint, do you want to start?
Dempsey: You know what I want.
Jol: What? You wanna start?
Dempsey: I said you know what I want.
Jol: How in the hell would I know? I just asked if you wanna start.
Dempsey: Well, you know it, boss. You know it.
Jol puzzled and think to himself "I dont, damnit."

LOL. biggrin.gif
dillonyong
post Aug 27 2012, 10:38 AM

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It feels like a win although I am gutted for Skrtel's defensive error which costs us the win. With so many journalists predicting a thrashing for Liverpool by Man City, I was only hopeful for a draw. So this is definitely a plus.

So excited with many positives from Sterling and Allen. Hope that Sterling can start more matches from now on.
dillonyong
post Aug 27 2012, 11:10 AM

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QUOTE(imin @ Aug 27 2012, 11:08 AM)
any highlight link?
*
Here you go. Video highlights.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/...ights-here.html
dillonyong
post Aug 27 2012, 11:33 AM

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QUOTE(led_zep_freak @ Aug 27 2012, 11:26 AM)
Let's not get carried away folks, last season we held City to a 1-1 draw as well with Lucas putting in a masterclass against an in-form Yaya Toure. For some reason City tends to play like crap at Anfield.

There's still work to be done. We still need to be clinical in front of goal and imo we could be better at keeping possession. The team is - slowly but surely - gelling together though. If we keep moving at the same direction and able to wrap up 1 or 2 attacking signings, these draws and losses will be converted into wins.

On Joe Allen, he reminds me a lot of Alonso, not the playing style but how he brings a certain calm to the team. Whenever a player in possession is under pressure, Allen's always there as an option. Never hides and never afraid of receiving the ball. Never loses the ball either.
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Dont worry pal. Reinforcements are still coming. BR said they are still working to sign a few more hopefully. If we keep playing like this, we can only improve. Still need more clinical finishing. Hopefully that will come.

And Liverpool for God's sake, need lots of luck. Lots and lots of luck. Where is the luck that blessed us with Champion's League trophy in 2005. Come back. We need to bang in the goals from anywhere. Be it, left leg, right leg, head, back side, thigh, stomach, chest, whatever!
dillonyong
post Aug 27 2012, 02:35 PM

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Ya ya, dont get carried away. But dont get carried under as well with cautious pessimism. Celebrating a good game doesnt mean getting carried away.

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