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 Public Mutual v4, Public/PB series funds

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j.passing.by
post Aug 11 2013, 11:57 AM

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QUOTE(xuzen @ Aug 11 2013, 09:22 AM)
Stay away from bond, stay far far away from it.

Go into equities now. For M'sia, go small cap. For world, get into US, China or North Asia market esp Nikkei link.

ASEAN = bleah!,

For bond, unless you are putting into bond first and do DCA i to equities, then it is ok.

Xuzen
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I don't get why bond funds are at risk, especially in Public Mutual funds as they are conservative and their returns are low, and most of them slightly higher than fixed deposits. With the recent dip, some of them are lower than FD. It makes no difference to me if they are giving 4.4% or 2.2%.

The basic of bonds is that they are government or corporate IOUs.

They would be worthless if the government or corporation goes broke and tutup kedai and can't redeem the bonds on the due date. Before the due date, the bonds are traded with a premium or discount. If the concern government or corporation is not going broke, I don't see (and understand) how the bonds would be traded with such a steep discount that it is lower than its face value upon due date.

As I'm currently aiming for a buy-and-hold portfolio, the bond/money market segment is to re-balance the portfolio... can't exactly run away from bonds unless I want to restructure the bond/equity ratio and change the desired risk ratio.

And if bonds are going to crash due to all the gulung tikar, then cash is king, and should stay out of equities too.




j.passing.by
post Aug 11 2013, 01:27 PM

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Xuzen,
Thanks (again) for another clarification.

As you all know, I'm new to the game and got a wee bit worry with the "Stay away from bond, stay far far away from it."; as if it will sucks your life. smile.gif

Cheers.

QUOTE(aoisky @ Aug 11 2013, 12:10 PM)
Since Bond return almost same as FD why not invest in Equity ? Is it the rebalancing principal is that important ?
I invest all in equity none in bond. 5 funds in green 1 fund in red. overall still a healthy investment in PM.
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It boils down to what stage of investment you are in... beginning, mid-way or already at end stage with nest egg.

The bond/money-market funds I having are all loaded units, ie. switched from equities. Can't have all 100% in equities, as when a golden opportunity comes then no 'money' to 'buy'.

"Buy low, sell high" remember? So take profit and switched some equities to bond/money-market when market is high, and switch back to equities when market is low.


j.passing.by
post Aug 11 2013, 01:46 PM

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"Buy low, sell high" is timing the market. Portfolio re-balancing is an "auto timer".

Say, the portfolio at the beginning is 50/50, when the equities go up or down, the ratio becomes heavy on one side, then we 're-balance' the ratio back to 50/50 by moving equities to bonds or vice versa.

Thus it forces us to buy/sell accordingly to a strategic rational... not reacting according to our emotions or sentiments of the market.

This is why portfolio re-balancing is important in buy-and-hold investment strategy.

j.passing.by
post Aug 11 2013, 05:44 PM

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QUOTE(David83 @ Aug 11 2013, 02:56 PM)
Portfolio re-balancing could be expensive if you're not doing switching under same fund house.

Since this is PM thread, I assume that portfolio re-balancing is restricted to PM which only involves switching fee.
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That is true, the switching fees can be costly TOO... need to know some background battlefield tactics before going into warfare wide command.

There are some tactics to reduce the costs, ie. the 90-days rule, usage of money-market instead of bond funds... as mentioned in previous posts. Also the "Gold" status for free switches... so it depends on how much resources you can put into the battle, and how much to diversify the resources into different battlegrounds.

Can't allocate resources into PRS or other fund houses if the resource is barely enough to achieve 'gold' status. The resources would be spread too thin to justify the fight... wars and countries were lost when generals went into battle halfheartedly! laugh.gif

This leads to strategy of not running from one battlefield to another; leaving the grounds without ensuring that resources, troops and portfolio are properly set-up in the field, without any medical and food supplies in place.

Strategic solution: a complete portfolio for each battlefield.

Another way to reduce switching costs... very simple... do less switching! Some say do re-balancing every quarters, but a financial guru (of course, not me la, just starting and yet to have the commanding officer experience) say to do it annually, as semi-annual makes not much difference in the longer term.

Cheers. Happy hunting. tongue.gif

PS. If doing switching every other day or week, the intelligence unit has gone AWOL. Sure lose battle. whistling.gif

This post has been edited by j.passing.by: Aug 11 2013, 05:47 PM
j.passing.by
post Aug 12 2013, 07:08 PM

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QUOTE(birdman13200 @ Aug 11 2013, 10:28 PM)
PM have stop this fund for cash investment, but you still can buy thru EPF.

Among 9 funds that closed for investment in PM, 5 of it still can buy thru EPF, anyone know what type of strategics is it? What is the benefit to do that?
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Well, if the fund is going to be fully subscribed, it will be fully closed anyway. So before it is fully subscribed, partially closing it gives some priority to investors with fixed regular investing plans.

If I'm not mistaken, a closed fund is still open to investors with DDI plans. Too bad, if the agent did not gave his/her client advance notice and the proper advice.

(There was a post about its pending closure 2-3 weeks ago... check the past pages...)

You cannot do DDI with EPF... if an investor is using the "always pot black" strategy of going in a bond fund before switching regularly to the equity fund or regularly investing directly into the fund every 3 months, so it is good that the fund is still open to investors using the EPF option.

As for PISEF, another equivalent fund in the same asset/benchmark category, EMAS Shariah Index (FBMS), is Public Islamic Equity Fund.

j.passing.by
post Aug 12 2013, 07:45 PM

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QUOTE(XtraLeoGecko @ Aug 12 2013, 04:52 PM)
Hi all sifus,
I hv just made a switch from all my equity funds to money market fund for the cash investment.  Also did the switches for all equity funds in EPF to islamic money market. All this done just before Flitch announced the downgrade. ...

I would like to hv bigger exposure in regional markets / Australia / China due to no confidence in Malaysia currency. ...

May I know which funds n when should I switch back to equity for:
A) cash portion
B) EPF portion

Thx for sharing.
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Did what you had just done last year... everything was "doom and gloom", and was completely lost on what to do next, so cut lost, did a retreat and bunker down... live to fight another day! laugh.gif

The main question is WHEN to get back into battle. I don't think everyone will have the same opinion on the exact moment, the best feng shui time to make the audacious move... so what I did was to take baby steps and tenderly test where the land mines are hidden. Maybe you're different and have the patient to wait and do a coup de grace in one major assault.

As to what vehicles and weapons to employ, the EPF money cannot buy imports. Only made-in-Malaysia ones. Oh, you already knew this... and most likely a lot of other stuff too, since I was not aware that Flitch would unexpectedly made the downgrade before this year's budget... sorry for the long winded post.

But with the ringgit down, it would be more expensive now than several months ago, to buy foreign imports.

Cheers.

PS. Maybe you could get more specify opinions if there is something more specify to discuss.

j.passing.by
post Aug 12 2013, 10:13 PM

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Xuzen,

hehe, it's not easy giving advice/suggestions on a forum, as we can only assume where the other party is coming from, or heading to... it can also be contradictory at times; it's confusing having DDI plans or DCA advice on one hand, and on the other hand giving advices on what market to overweight/underweight. biggrin.gif

What market to overweight/underweight this month or next month is market timing too.

Without knowing where the other party is coming from or heading to... even a simple DCA method could have various meanings to him/her, for example regularly invest everyday, every week, ever fortnight... or regularly top up whenever it dip below a certain NAV price.

This is a true example, not out of thin air... as earlier in the year, I believed I have had done enough DCA by switching into an equity fund (using low-load bond units) every week for 2 months. Then 3 months later, another round of DCA, switching almost every day for a period of 2 weeks. (Is it good or bad? Only I would know since nobody except me have the whole picture/story/reason behind the action. biggrin.gif )

Cheers.

================

Anyone knows why there were price updates for the PB ASEAN Divi fund and PSEASF last week when the Indonesian market was closed for the entire week? These 2 funds no longer holding substantial Indonesian stocks?

Thanks in advance.


j.passing.by
post Aug 13 2013, 05:15 PM

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QUOTE(xuzen @ Aug 13 2013, 02:40 PM)
Sigh, yeah.... sorry to confuse you mate. My post #1435 is meant to be read in two parts. First part was in direct answer to your question.

Second part was just for the purpose of disseminating info about what I heard from a fund manager.

Sorry to confuse you.

Xuzen
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hehehe, I think you see what I meant reading today's posts... don't worry, personally, I'm not confuse, as I know where (which viewpoints) you're coming from. I posted to keep the conversation going.

Please continue posting and please don't mind and excuse my 'spanner in the works' interruptions...

I think there's only so much strategies and tactical moves available in UT investments (which I believed most have been covered in previous posts), so would really, really welcome more technical posts if there is any.

Cheers.

j.passing.by
post Aug 13 2013, 05:29 PM

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QUOTE(XtraLeoGecko @ Aug 12 2013, 11:38 PM)
Thanks for the sharing, appreciate. Maybe need to wait till UMNU election... then ugly things would all surfaced out at once and a big correction (or true reflection).. then go in sapu gao-gao by EPF...
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You're welcome.

QUOTE(kimyee73 @ Aug 13 2013, 03:22 PM)
Wah lau.. my DCA usually last for 6 months...
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What can I say, except that your DCA is not the same colour as my DCA! laugh.gif


j.passing.by
post Aug 13 2013, 06:59 PM

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Okay, enough of military metaphors... serious stuff here.

The 25 Ringgit Hotel.

What is it? It is a tactical play to preserve the value of a fund instead of riding down with the fund in a long decline.

The play involves a money-market fund (the “Hotel”); and it cost RM25 each stay. The stay is as long as you like to have. Check-out is at any time you like.

Technical details: After holding a fund for 90 days and more, the cost of switching into a money-market fund is zero. Switching out of a money-market fund, at any time, is RM25 per transaction.

Effectiveness of the play: So far I have only use this tactical play on one occasion early June; and switching back into the equity fund (PSEASF) about 2 weeks later. Only managed to reduce the slide by 2% as I switched back too early when it had not truly bottomed out. A better timing could produce a 6% difference.

Combination moves: This tactical play can be a series of moves; using it to take profit when the market is high and yet wanted to continue riding a long bull rally by taking partially bit by bit out the equity fund over a period of time. The minimum number of units in a switch is 1000 units. Break it down to as many transactions as you like (as long as it is 1000 units and above), since each transaction is at zero cost.

You can lump them together after the ‘hotel stay’ for a single RM25 check-out fee.



j.passing.by
post Aug 13 2013, 07:23 PM

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QUOTE(repusez @ Aug 13 2013, 06:05 PM)
how often can we switch the fund from fixed income to equity or vice versa if it is withdrawn using EPF ?

can this be done online or must there be any physical form submission? i'm sorry if this has been asked before. thanks for replying
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Yes, the switching transaction can be done online (by login into Public Mutual Online). Minimum number of units in a switch is 1000 units.

The physical part is submitting the form for the EPF withdrawal. Which in this case, is for either a bond/fixed income fund. Service charge is 0.25%. These bond/fixed income units are known as low-load units.

Switching from the bond/fixed income fund to equity, no switching fee; as you are paying the 3% service charge, and converting 'low-load' units to 'loaded' units.

Hope above helps. Only read the below part for further info... else please disregard it.

Cheers.

=======================

Later when you switched from the equity fund back to the bond fund, there will be switching fee for each switch.

If you are switching back to the same previous bond/fixed income fund, it will be become a bit complicated if there are still 'low-load' units remaining in that fund. A mixture of 'low-load' and 'loaded' units in the same fund.

Switching out from this fund with 'low-load' and 'loaded' units, if I'm not mistaken, Public Mutual uses the 'least cost' policy, and will switch out the 'loaded' units first.






j.passing.by
post Aug 19 2013, 04:48 PM

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Jakarta exchange just dropped by 5.5%... and still going down; 2 days in a row, about 10% in total.

Public Indo Select was like above YTD 19% in June, now probably below zero wiping out all it gained this year.

Maybe a good time to get in this week... but will wait for September to readjust my funds.

Cheers. Happy hunting.

j.passing.by
post Aug 19 2013, 05:06 PM

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QUOTE(felixmask @ Aug 19 2013, 05:00 PM)
i have concern of Indo Fund, scare it mimic China Select Fund...never go up....

any guy..think..FF out..hard to get Jakarta Exchnage to push up again.
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No fund can be so bad like CSF! biggrin.gif

j.passing.by
post Aug 19 2013, 05:18 PM

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QUOTE(felixmask @ Aug 19 2013, 05:08 PM)
rclxms.gif very confident  rclxms.gif
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no, have to be cautious with Indo Select. But don't compare to CSF.

CSF was the best and fastest horse in the last 4 weeks with over 6% gains. I bought it when it first opened, promotion discount also no good doh.gif , if I'm still holding it, would still be losing 30%. as NAV price only 0.1702 laugh.gif


j.passing.by
post Aug 19 2013, 05:37 PM

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QUOTE(felixmask @ Aug 19 2013, 05:21 PM)
really..i cant remeber..becoz i left rm1k into this fund.....

I do one crazy thing..during 2008 financial crisis..keep topup CSF...then after 2011 move  everthing to bond fund.
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that's nothing crazy about topping up when a fund is going down... cannot beat my top up at 0.2867. thumbup.gif
j.passing.by
post Aug 19 2013, 07:09 PM

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QUOTE(felixmask @ Aug 19 2013, 05:43 PM)
i dont buy fund above 0.25sen NAV....i try to strike new fund..or fund below the 0.25NAV

After above 0.25NAV..move to BOND FUND already..waiting for KABBOM to strike..pray hard BOND fund no kaboom like equities fund.
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IMHO, currently, after all the previous mistakes I make, my buying criteria is opposite to above. My previous posts on a quick list of funds based on ranking them according to their NAV price, still applies.

In all seriousness, the selection was NOT based solely on NAV price. There is a key word "core funds" which I left out in the previous posts.

What are "core funds"? As implied by the word itself, it is a set of funds that formed the core part of a portfolio.

Where to find the core funds? Within the range of NAV prices as given in the previous posts. They would hardly be below the 0.25 debut mark. Below 0.25 are either new funds or poor performing funds.

Though Indo Select would never be a core part of my portfolio, I might possibly be putting a percentage on it for an extraordinary gain (if the situation warrants it); but I would be looking at the index, NOT the NAV price, for an entry point.

Jakarta index closed at 4,314 today, -5.58%. The buying point I would set would be something like below 4,200 and I would ignore whatever is its NAV price at that time.

And if Indo Select is a good fund (performing well against its benchmark, etc. etc.), all the more reason to ignore its NAV price. Waiting for it to drop below 0.25, could be a very long wait that could never come.

Cheers. Happy hunting.

j.passing.by
post Aug 20 2013, 02:01 PM

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QUOTE(Kaka23 @ Aug 20 2013, 10:42 AM)
Yeap... low possibility will re-open, unless everybody sell the fund to cash out.
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Possibility of everybody selling SmallCap is even lower. Its like suddenly Public Bank going broke, and everyone wanting to withdraw money out of PB.

Mind you, SmallCap is one of Public Mutual's best funds. If someone wants to sell and give back to PM, better to "transfer" to someone else. He/she would even be willing to pay extra 5% as service charge. smile.gif

==========

Jakarta index still dropping today, another 4%... now below 4150.
Indo Select down 5.74% in a day; YTD is now below zero, -2.84%.

Don't believe any economic data as reason for the sharp rise and fall, it's all hot money chasing hot funds, money flows in and money flows out... the tide is flowing out now, it will flows back in... that is the law of nature! tongue.gif



j.passing.by
post Aug 20 2013, 06:12 PM

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QUOTE(debbieyss @ Aug 20 2013, 04:50 PM)
I should have allocated more regular fund for SmallCap.

I know of Strategic SmallCap, but is it the same?
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There are 5 smallcap funds (according to PM's monthly magazine):
Public Islamic Opportunities
Public Islamic Select Treasures
Public Islamic Treasures Growth
Public Strategic Smallcap
Public Smallcap.

YTD gains, respectively: 23.15%, 18.6%, 20.26%, 18.48, and 22.77%.

In terms of recent performance, PIOF is the closest, next is PITGF.

PSSCF is a relatively new fund launched last year; sharing the same benchmark as SmallCap.

Cheers. Happy hunting.

j.passing.by
post Aug 22 2013, 01:45 PM

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QUOTE(j.passing.by @ Jul 11 2013, 10:23 PM)
some old news... "Malaysian Stock Market Correction Expected."

Published: Thursday July 4, 2013 MYT 12:00:00 AM...
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


Take-away points:
- KLCI...consensus target of 1,840.
- Kenanga set its KLCI 12-month target at 1,870 and year-end target at 1,810.
- “We advise investors to sell when the composite index trades at more than 1,810..."
- "... when the market hit 1,720, a 6% discount to market price, it would be a good time (to buy)."
- “We have seen corrections typically around August and September.”

KLCI closed today at 1781. Lowest closed, since its upswing in May, was June 28 at 1728.

Does the analyst mean to say that the correction could be down to 1700-1720 support level and not below? Which makes it a correction of about 4% if (and when) KLCI reaches 1790 around Aug/Sept? And a 5% gain from 1720 to 1810 by year-end?

Let's say 5% on 25% of portfolio, gives 1.25% gain... so little...  hmm.gif  Need to find faster horses...  tongue.gif
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The general consensus seemed to remain same as above on KLCI returning back to upper end of 1700 at year-end.

KLCI now hitting 1715... will it go down further to 1600-1650 range?

j.passing.by
post Aug 22 2013, 06:45 PM

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loved it when analyst cut to the chase...

http://www.thestar.com.my/Business/Busines...mble-again.aspx
Harry Su, head of research at Bahana Securities, said that with the share index dropping below 4,250 on Tuesday, "the market could head to the 3,800 according to our technical analyst."

Bahana still thinks the index will be up this year, though on Tuesday it cut its year-end target to 4,750 from 4,950. At the end of 2012, the index was at 4,316.7.


Jakarta index closed today at 4171, so possible upside of 14% if it goes up to 4750 level. The peak at end May was 5200.

Cheers, happy hunting.

PS. Also keeping an eye on Sing; my only equity fund still in black, not because its index did not dropped or the fund performing better than index, it's because ringgit has dropped more against Sing dollar.



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