I've been driving turbos for 15 years now and yes I do miss the low end torque. The fun factor of the RWD is not what most people think it is.... it's something else altogether...

I've been learning the characteristics of the car with the traction control full on and almost every hard corner I do, the TC lights up on the dashboard telling me that the car is keeping me away from the kerb. Then there is the 'hero' mode.... or sports mode where the traction control is partially off. It lets the rear loose a little and then TC takes control to make me look like I'm doing the correction but actually just straightening out the steering without any counter steering required. Yeah.. makes me look like a hero. Then there is full TC off which I won't even want to talk about on public roads.

What I consider as the real fun factor.. is the height (or the lack of it). What I can say is that pictures of the car does it very little justice. From pictures, most people have the Zed (350/370) or Supra in mind when comparing but when you stand next to the car you'd realise how low it is. That is the real fun factor and worth paying every penny for it. Even the Celica stands almost 2.5 inches taller. Nothing is this low at that price (except for the iconic S2K).

The low center of gravity is no hype. It's damn real and damn fun. I'm cornering it harder than my scooby and I'm getting the tingly sensation back on my fingers after a hard drive, something i haven't felt in a long while.

I've grown out of the straight line power and yes, it was worth ditching the turbocharged AWD.

damn after reading your reply, you've got me a bit poisoned, as i am planning a future (5-6 years later) purchase of a Turbo AWD (WRX STI perhaps? not sure if Subaru still releasing new ones after the 2015) and it seems like i may have to rethink my direction?

the thing is, after driving NA for so long, turbo is a very tempting thing that i've always wanted to try, and yea the whole power out of the straight line when the turbo spools up is something a NA can never do and no matter how hard i try to corner, once the straights at Sepang hits, i'm eating dusts from pretty much any turbo charged cars

btw considering the GT86 and BRZ is practically the same thing, i could just get away with the BRZ anyways right? (slight anti toyota LOL! i blame LYN)

most people won't let go the addiction of power (FI) and term that as ultimate fun or a large degree to what that believe is the central aspect of said vehicle.

I understand where you are coming from. many people may not. sometimes the majority of your driving time is where people neglect and would trade for the boost/power addiction

I'm going full circle from NA FF to FI FF to FI AWD to NA RWD (maybe later finally to FI RWD). With the latest Ford Focus RS in Turbo AWD form, you can be assured to find more Turbo AWD in the future. If you never owned an FI, then you should have one. Maybe in your future planning you can do both. They might end up putting in a turbo into the BRZ.

You are also comparing a situation where power is important. Sepang. Half the battle is won on power over there. If you take the old Batu Tiga or Pasir Gudang track, power does not come in play so much.

People say it needs more power. Yes, sure we can live with more power but that means fat tyres in the rear. Fat means more traction and less time for TC to correct. When TC kicks in, you lose power anyway and it is wasted. The fun factor is not the all out tail out Initial D style driving. That's not fun.. that's scary. The fun is in hero mode where the tail tucks out a little each time you corner and it does not have to be a hard corner. Even coming out of a junction I can make the tail wiggle and knowing that TC is there to fix it when it wiggles too much. That is the fun part.

They say the car comes with skinny tyres but it is the same size tyre that Subaru put on my WRX 15 years ago. Skinny compared to the fat 235s and 245s but the skinny tyre makes it much easier for the TC to wiggle the rear without working overtime.

I'd buy a Porsche and have the best of both worlds but I can't afford one (refer to the post before this.. a FI RWD would complete my ownership circle). This is as close as it gets for the price of a Camry.

This post has been edited by sleepwalker: Feb 10 2015, 04:29 PM

now that you mentioned the Ford focus RS...


but hey, at least there's going to be a lot more choice (which would make my life/decision harded LOL!)
thanks for the encouragement btw, i'm definitely looking to that direction, but of course will keep an eye on the BRZ

and i really like the half ESP mode that you've been enjoying a TON.
the Subaru WRX STI also have that feature, im not sure if you've driven the new 2015 STI, regardless are you able to comment on it/compare it if possible?

and yea i have no qualms on skinny tires, so long it works.

You mean in Trac mode? Guess what, my old Scooby had no traction control whatsoever, just a simple AWD and even with that, it was pretty 'drama-less'. The tail is not going to come out as the car is being pulled (front wheel) and pushed (rear wheel) at the same time. The moment you put power on front wheels, it reduces it's ability to steer and it will go wide slightly. The only time I can ever get the tail out is at a U-Turn with wet roads or in very lose gravel. Even then, the car doesn't like to do it.

So whether with traction control on or off, it is very difficult to get AWDs to slip and slide on dry tarmac. Why do you think all the fancy Subaru ads are done sideways with plenty of dust and loose gravel?

You'd have to be driving at some insane speeds on dry tarmac to wiggle any AWD. It just has too much traction.

i've yet to drive a AWD car to its limits before and even on those times i've test driven it is on public roads so my experience are very limited.

so based on your feedback, as opposed to FF/AWD, RWD/FR is the car to get if you're aiming for fun/driving pleasure? (probably why cars like bmw has that tag line of "ultimate driving machine"?)

fun is one thing, that may not necessarily be the best thing to have (since not everyone is a good driver myself included) if your aim is for lap times at Sepang, right?
however with the newer STI having DCCD and the ability to lock it to 100% RWD, wouldn't it sorta mimic something that's similar to the GT86?
or it doesn't even come close?

and now that you mentioned on those ads... rofl.

i dunno, a LOT of people are on endless pursuit for traction and suddenly it seems like a bad thing from the posts you've made haha.
your feedback of the 86 definitely shed a lot of light as i've previously disregard it entirely considering it's pricing in Malaysia.

say, if i insist on a new car, there's just no way for the 86? (since it's just not worth it at all for the pricing it is asking in Malaysia)
then again, for new sports cars in Malaysia, the pricing being demanded is just a little absurd.

One correction. The DCCD does not lock to full RWD. The DCCD provides a manual bias for your torque split, practically you can sort of adjust how you want it to react but you don't actually have full control. Hence the word bias instead of the word control. Even for 2015 STi the split is up to 41:59.

Like I said, in Sepang, the battle is half won with a powerful car. It is up to you to lose by screwing up the corners. Going sideways through corners isn't exactly the fastest way to do it.

There is no wrong in the endless pursuit of traction but it is not fun. Every Subaru driver out there can tell you that they have that little extra grin on their faces when it rains heavily while we are on the road. While most people dread driving in those conditions, it gives us a chance to wiggle around in the rain, something we don't get to do on dry roads.

I don't consider myself a pro driver either which is why the TC hasn't been fully turned off. I won't do that on public roads.

As I have also mentioned in a previous reply here, I would get the Porsche if I had the money for the best of both worlds but looking at my little car, it is the next best thing that only cost a Camry. There is of course the S2K but even with money, is hard to find.

Here is something for you to ponder. For 2.5 years since the launch of the 86 (yes, it has been 2.5 years) I have always written it off until I sat in one. Took 5 seconds for it to change my 2.5 years of thinking. That was the effect of the 86.

I see that the prices for the 86 is dropping. Waiting for it to drop even more and want to get one for weekend drives and also for the track. Tempted with all the amazing mods from Japan as well as getting it forced induced for even more power.

ah i didn't know about that, thanks for clarifying.
so you still won't be able to fake a RWD car from an AWD

and ya pretty much what you said about Sepang/Subaru/Rain.

S2k, money aside, it's near impossible to find a good condition car in bone stock. they are all modified one way or another, needless to say about trashing or even crashing it.

and yea, 2.5 years i've never really looked at the 86 much mainly because of the pricing, and 2.5 years ago i am much poorer than i am today (that's not to say i'm that far better off today, my bank's still dead broke every month rofl) which puts the 86 pretty much in an "impossible position/goal", not even getting towards worthiness/practicality/feasibility of it.
5 seconds to change 2.5 years eh, that's some pretty damn strong effect

thanks again for all the feedback, for the time being it's best perhaps i stay away from that car

HKS supercharger

There are well maintained/little modded S2000 out there
However,it is different story if the owner is willing to sell it

Any tips for me if I want to get a recon 86? Anything I should look out for or what specs to choose?

3 Specs Available.

GT Limited and GT (you can find out the specs online) and the G (which has cheaper specs). Performance wise all are the same, the difference are the wheel size, trims and interior.

G version is standard 16 inch rims, no leather trims, black face tacho, no spotlights. The GT comes with white face tacho with digital speedo and leather trims with 17 inch wheels and HID lights. GT Limited comes with spoiler (as found on the BRZ) and half Alcantara leather seats.

You can find the full specs and differences on the internet.

BRZ only 1 spec?
motor image only 1, and looks like no longer selling anyways :/

Yes, BRZ only one spec.

http://www.subaru.com/vehicles/brz/models-specs.html
how are they coming out with "all new 2015" (i really hate car manufacturers blindly using "all new lol") and theres like 2 specs (i guess. more towards trim level)

nice info thx

Bro.. if you dont mind telling me, what is the interest rates that you got? im planning to get mine next month..