I guess those people just see direct JPEG and never touch anything?
I notice most people like contrasty and dramatic look, which Canon JPEG version gives more, and thus the color has deeper color, but the skin color will not look good.

For normal shoot, I notice Canon JPEG tends to give lesser clarity which gives more "angel" feel, which some people like especially for Portraits. As for me, I prefer details and for raw, usually I will bump up some extra clarify.

I guess it really depends on preference; Most people just compare direct JPEG output.

Same here, some people don't get the SOOC means you're using camera preset settings to process the image file.
Shooting raw means you're processing from RAW, and applying your own processing.

It's like buying a RAW meat, either your cook it yourself or put into Nikon Oven or Canon Oven (or any other brand) and use their preset for Standard, Portrait, Vivid, etc.
Even we shoot RAW, put in lightroom, we can use the preset and apply it, it will have same output as SOOC.

Oops, I mean Nikon View/Capture NX, the output will be the same as camera.

His one lens can rule them all,
Can almost buy a D7000 + a Tammy 17-50mm f/2.8 + 808

Edited - add Tamron brand (miss out)

This post has been edited by Andy214: Jul 27 2012, 11:44 AM

I mentioned this long ago when Nikon come out with CX Sensor mirrorless... that one day, Canon might come out with APS-C..... What a bad move from Nikon, and pity those Nikon1 owners IF Nikon finally decide to use APS-C version mirrorless sensor in order to compete with Canon.
The Nikon1 isn't small either, and it's expensive...

If you're just getting a DSLR for personal use and didn't really intend to move deep into photography, these entry level are good enough.
If you feel you want to venture deeper and do not want to be later disappointed with the controls and handling and wasting the money, I'd suggest to get at least a "proper" DSLR.
The reason why I use the word "proper" is my personal way of seeing things, the way I see it, these "beginner" DSLR are mainly targeted towards those point and shoot users who are used to IN-MENU settings, and not manual controls and handling. For more serious users, they will want more controls and handling especially for jobs, event, etc. Even if it's not a paid job, but you're shooting an event for leisure, a serious user will "prefer" to have better controls and handling.
But if you're just a casual user who want to get a simple basic DSLR that is EASY to use, with guide modes, etc. These entry level are the best options.
Just my cheap 2 click shutter.

On a side note, to compare, actually I would say the Canon 650D wins this round, it has improved fast auto-focus and also... touch screen. The touch screen is a nice to have and interesting feature ESPECIALLY for casual shooters who want more "useful" and "nice" features.

If it were my friend, I would explain to him/her the differences between those DSLR range and also understand what he/she wants to use it for, will he/she wiling to carry the DSLR around, does he/she really want/need a DSLR, etc.
In the end, let him/her decide.

Added:
Besides, in the end, he/she might not go for a DSLR. I have few examples already, some go for a DSLR, while some decided to go for smaller compact system. Most important is to let them know an understand, then decide for themselves; This is my personal opinion, I do know some people who think otherwise, where they feel the person don't really know, and so they decide for them instead.

Agreed! Beginner bodies have in-menu settings, guide modes, etc. Basically, they're more meant and targeted for casual point-and-shoot users. For more serious users, should firstly understand and know what they want/need before investing; Just like buying every other thing, first you need to know what you want and need, then understand the product range in more detail before deciding. But most people just want to get a DSLR, the richer ones will say, I want a better one.

In the end, it depends on the buyer; For me, the most important is to know themselves, what they want and need, and will they be willing to carry it around or end up in the cupboard and be using their camera phone most of the time (or worst, all of the time).

One thing though, these cheap beginner DSLR have it's good and bads... With it being so affordable... when I went for Weddings.... there're like 4-5 guest carrying DSLR and blocking the photographers... It's so annoying especially when the march in sessions, suddenly a guest carrying DSLR just appear in front of you and blocking you.
Another recent Wedding I went is a lot better because the Emcee specifically given instructions to the guest, please remain seated and do not block the photographers.
That should be the way... imagine unable to deliver those important shots to your client because some of the guest blocked you...

This post has been edited by Andy214: Jul 30 2012, 10:24 AM

I think you didn't read my post properly and calmly, seems you get very offended and over-reacted. My bad, even though I keep mentioned it's my personal opinion and what I feel, and I also keep highlight many times, that it's up to the buyer decision, I prefer to let him/her know and let him/her decide.
Everyone has their own ways, if you feel your friend should get D3200, then go ahead.
In my post, I also did mentioned, if the person is a casual shooter and have no plan to invest of venture deeper into photography, those beginner is a good buy and choice.

In the end, it's still up to to the buyer, so what if he is a pro, if he choose beginner DSLR, nothing is wrong. There's no RIGHT or WRONG decision. Who says a pro cannot use beginner DSLR?
There's also some who has no budget and can only afford a beginner body. It's either he/she get the beginner or wait longer. If he/she choose to get it now, then he/she will get the beginner body.
It all depends on the decision, the person can also get a SECOND hand higher range body, or whatever decision he/she think it's BEST for him/her, not for me or you.

It's just how I personally feel, it doesn't just apply for photograpy products, even other products, there's beginner range which if you try to understand the purpose and why the beginner series is created, you may see different picture, but then different people have different perception.
Back then DSLR where got beginner series like D3000? When they want to target point-and-shoot users, and also make an affordable DSLR for point-and-shoot users, they release beginner series like these, which comes with SCENE modes, GUIDE modes, and all those point-and-shoot and easy to use functions.
Another example, I saw one customer asked to see the D300S back then long ag, and then the first question he ask the salesperson, where's the scene modes?

This post has been edited by Andy214: Jul 30 2012, 10:56 AM

Just trying to explain, clear any misunderstandings and not to find any troubles. I don't join the forum to find enemies or argument, but anything we can always discuss it out. Maybe it's not a common practice in Malaysian forums, when I started joining internet and forums, I join internal forums and they're used to typed long messages and explain in details. Not sure how if that's serious, but if I were to offend anyone here, then I should be serious not to do it and apologize for it. Everyone has their own ways of suggestion and opinions, I share and discuss about mine, I do understand that not everyone will agree with it, as I know some friends who have different ways and doesn't agree with my way, so it's cool. I'm not here to say who's wrong whose right, but my preference and it's up to the person to decide himself/herself.

Hope you're get what I'm trying to point out, you share your views, I shared mine (with explanation of why I think this way, personally). If you disagree, it's OK, if you want to discuss it out, no problem, we can discuss why we have different ways and opinions, and maybe we can come to one agreement or you have your valid points and I have mine. There's no right or wrong rule, it depends on how each person think and opinion.

Anyway, if I somehow did offended you in any way possible, please do accept my apology; What I said is based on what I experience and my friends, but each person has their own ways, and I'm neutral, and did not specifically mentioned which way is wrong or right, just a matter of preference.

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Added on July 30, 2012, 11:40 amYup, that's why, I personally prefer to inform them and give them more information, personal experiences and examples. Tell them each camera differenes, understand what they wants/needs, tell them the problems, and so on. For DSLR, they also need to know about DSLR maintenance and all other stuffs.

There're some decided not to get a DSLR after knowing the troubles of a DSLR, such as, inconvenience, maintenance, storage, fungus; They also considered properly whether they will be carrying it around and how often they will utilize it.
While some, they get it for special events purpose.

As for different bodies, I know some after informing them, they still decide to go for beginner body even though they are serious and want to venture into photography, but they feel they want to take it slow and be on budget, so they get a beginner body and slowly progress and learn. There's no wrong or right, I just help to inform and let them know, in case, later they said, how come nobody tell me? Then people might say "why you never do research before decide", which is not really helping because it's like adding salt to the wound, they already know their mistake of not doing research and understand properly, no point keep telling them and hurting them more.

Anyway, it really depends on the buyer, from my experience, I find that there're many unique opinion and thinking when I speak to people, especially when there is many people, and there're many different and unique opinions.
You might be surprised with some answers, but that's their opinion and what is important to them.
Just like handphone, do you know that someone actually can sell of their handphone just because the handphone cannot set custom SMS tone?
There're many unique and different opinions around, and how each person prioritize them.

This post has been edited by Andy214: Jul 30 2012, 11:41 AM

Get the 50mm f/1.8G, overall it's much better; You can google for some detailed comparison of it, the G version is better in almost every way, plus you get manual focus override feature.

The jpeg default output for D lens and G lens is quite different. I notice the D lens tends to be cooler while the G lens tends to produce more warm pictures. Didn't really test extensively, but my friend have the D version, we just did some few test shots, the output from D lens tend to produce cooler tones.
Even without zoom in to see the details, the G version is already showing better results overall.

Above is what I experienced. Before you buy, you can always test BOTH lens and decide, zoom in and check the details, sharpness, etc.
Oh, the G lens also have silent and internal focus, so the focus ring doesn't rotate and don't make loud noise.

OT:

Review of the Nokia 808 PureView (with 41MP Sensor) by DPReview:
http://www.dpreview.com/articles/808383737...ia-808-pureview

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Added on July 31, 2012, 10:50 amYou can pre-focus to reduce the focus travel, in most of your shots are around the same focusing distance.

As for MF, the 50mm f/1.8G allows manual focus override, so you can override it without switching to M, unless you want fully manual only, hehe

This post has been edited by Andy214: Jul 31 2012, 10:50 AM

V1 is small?
I think pretty big also. With the zoom lens it's even more big

Want more compact mirrorless zoom, get Panasonic G1X with X Lens, hehe
Cool and retro --> Olympus OM-D? Fuji X-Pro1?

White? I think you can check out Samseng NX series, which also having APS-C size sensor; Recently many ads on YouTube on Samseng NX series mirrorless, plus, it got Wi-Fi and can connect to your smartphone, use your smartphone as viewfinder as well as issue command to take photo.
The user interface of the camera also more interesting.

This post has been edited by Andy214: Jul 31 2012, 05:26 PM

Which branch? Personally I would avoid Fotokem unless you found a good sales person there. From survey around, the Mines branch seems to offer more competitive and reasonable pricing. There's also a member here who works in Fotokem, I think Mid Valley branch.

What the price of the UV Filter? You can try to exclude it as usually they sell the filters very expensive and earn a lot from there. They give you cheaper camera price, but earn you back through filter or some accessories, which they will push and ask you to buy.
Even memory card, you should survey the price first, usually if you get from camera shop, it'll be very expensive.

This post has been edited by Andy214: Aug 9 2012, 03:52 PM

Usually the UV Filter given by those shop when they sell you the camera are those cheap or less branded filters. Those good branded filters, they might put the retail price there like RM500++ or more.
In short, the prices of these accessories are usually way way overpriced, even their memory cards.
My advice is to survey and know the prices first, then if the price they offer is reasonable then only take; If you're not sure, it's better not to get it, you can always get it later or from online seller later.

Yes, normally you don't see people recommending Fotokem, there's usually many bad opinions/comments. It depends on the branch and sales person, but some branch, even the boss himself is very bad, trying to cheat customers as if the customer is small kid, like he's still in the olden age where there's no internet.

In AmCorp mall, there's also another shop called "D'Classic", the price also competitive with J-One and offer great service as well.

As I know, Flickr will sharpen the image.

See the color of the satay and also the plate, but the satay is more obvious. I think FB less natural? Hehe

Tamron 17-50mm non-VR can get around RM1250 (or even RM1200) from J-One or D'Classic AmCorp Mall PJ.
Authorised set by Futuromic Malaysia.

Nice write up

Because Nokia is emphasizing on Lumia. It's their Bread & Butter now, they need to push it to be successful as it will soon be their one and only OS for smartphone.

Do try the full resolution mode files (38MP or 34MP) against your D800
Can't really compare DSLR in terms of image, but the details captured at full resolution on the PureView is amazing nonetheless.


Nice~ What synth/keyboard is that?

Yea, way overpriced, especially those less common model, and their low end models usually don't have audio out to external speakers, only for headphones.

So which brand and model are you using?