Hi guys, I need some help here.

I'm buying a house and noticed that the previous owner didn't apply for a renovation permit before he renovated the house.

Now I'm liable and will have to pay the fine if the MPSJ finds out.

I'm obviously not happy about it and the previous owner doesn't want to take his responsibility.

What can I do now? I want to legalize the renovation made, but is it even possible? I'm afraid I'll be fined and MPSJ may even tear down the renovated parts from what I read. I'm most worried about the renovation being illegal and rejected. I'm ok to pay to get the renovation legalized.

Has anyone been in that situation (renovation completed without permit by the previous owner)?

Bonus question: how much is it going to cost me? I guess I won't be able to avoid the fine + have to pay for architect to draw the plans + permit fees, etc.

Thanks!

This post has been edited by cedm: May 16 2012, 06:37 PM

Have you purchase the house? If no stop all the process and demand for refund on your d/p. Threathen to report if he refuse to refund?

I haven't signed the SPA yet. I've only paid the 3% deposit so far. I found out about the missing permit when the seller's lawyer deleted a clause related to the renovation in the SPA.

So, yes, I have the option to call off the deal, it's not too late. Right now I'm contemplating my options and try to see what is worth. I like the house, the location, the price and it's a lot of effort to find something correct. Been looking for a house for a year now, I don't want to throw all that effort down the drain.

If I can legalize the renovation and the cost of doing so isn't prohibitive, it may be worth it. But it's kind of a gamble and something more to worry about.

Renovations are fairly basic: new front gate, proper wall fencing all around, extended at the back with "metal" roof to cover. No structural changes to the unit itself, except for a 2m by 2m kitchen extension. That's about it. It certainly doesn't make the house look out of place, it just look like the neighboring units.

This post has been edited by cedm: May 16 2012, 07:14 PM

You notice when newer area being developed, owner start renovation without permit because they pow the runner already.

Honestly, it's not a major issue. The items you mentioned are pretty standard renovations which the council won't even take notice of.

If you really want it legalize, find a runner and get the appropriate information and costs. Possible redress is to get the owner to fork it out or for less hassle you foot the bill. I don't foresee it to cost much as there is no major structural changes.

Thanks Adrian. Seems like it's still worth going forward with the purchase. I will check what my lawyer has to say about it.

I do not expect the seller to fork out anything as he is the one who asked the lawyer to remove the compensation claim of the renovation.

no structural changes.. so no worry lor....

Lawyers will always advice on the side of caution. It's their job to do so.
Don't expect your lawyer to turn around and agree with what you say.

TS, i suggest you to do the following
Take picture of all the renovated works and go MPSJ ask them is this consider renovation which need approval. If answer is 'no', then you are happy. If the answer is 'yes' (which means MPSJ will fine you) then there is 2 options for you,
Option 1 - Get the seller to bare the fine.
Option 2 - Take all these work out temporary when you apply you renovation permit, then include it in your new renovation plan.

If I understand correctly, to draw a new floor plan and get the renovation approve is around RM2K.
The same thing happen to me on my newly bought house but the previous owner only did half wall instead of full wall for the kitchen extend. Since nearby neighbourhood had done all extension, I plan to top up the wall and go without permit (no money ). The fine is around RM500 + new drawing plan, etc (RM2K). See whether you want to take the risk.

As you mentioned this is probably the house for the rest of your life and you like it very much.....
Just to dig out another RM2-3K to solve this, i think it's worth doing it. Money can solve means it's not really a problem.

Thanks for the support and advice guys.

My lawyer asked me the same: to provide pictures of the renovation so that she can evaluate them and advise on the best course of action. From what I've gathered now, it seems the renovations are considered pretty standard and minor, so there's shouldn't be too much worry that the council would tear down anything.

I'll enquire with the council as well to determine the cost and required documents to get a permit for all that. RM2k would be perfectly acceptable to me. I'm slightly worried with the back extension though, as the wall rises fairly high. I read that it cannot be more than 5ft tall and that there should be 1m spared at the back -not too sure about that though...

in legal terms, what is considered as structural change?

1) if my wet kitchen has half wall, and i want to cover all, does it consider structural change? no extension at all

2) outside of 2nd floor master bedroom there is a big space (cover for porch), so if i plan to open a door in the master room to go out there, and do a 3-4 ft railing to make it becomes balcony.

A) 1) and 2) do not need approval
B) 1) need approval 2) doesnt
C) 2) need approval 1) doesnt
D) both 1) and 2) need approval

*i went to ask developer, but the sale office did not provide any clear answer, they asked me if others are doing it..i told them yes, i saw there are ppl doing it, they said then should be ok....

*i plan to go ask MBK or whatever, my friend told me they will always need approval because they want money??


thanks

This post has been edited by jtleon: May 17 2012, 09:41 PM

Hey guys, I'm back with some not so good news... There's a big question mark on the legality of the back extension, and I need some help to figure out what is actually legal when it comes to ground floor back extension:

- Can the back extension goes all the way to the boundary line? Or is a minimum spared space required? (I've read conflicting information here. Some says must be 5ft spared, some says that only applies for upper floors and ground floor can be extended to the max.)
- What is the maximum legal height for the concrete walls? I've read 5ft, some other people mentioned half wall only (half what?)

The property in question is fully extended at the back, with high walls (close to 7ft if I remember correctly), and only a foot of space left before the roof (for air flow I presume).

I think the rest of the property's renovation will be fine as they are very common, but the back extension is a different matter. I'm running out of time as the deadline for signing the SPA is tomorrow. The seller and his agent are getting very annoying and totally unwilling to help find out any information.

Also, does anyone knows how much is the council fine for illegal renovations? What order of cost are we talking about here? RM1k? RM 5k? more? less?

Property falls under MPSJ jurisdiction.

Thanks a lot.

I can definitely say this will fail as the distance between ur back wall and the house wall must be at least 7 feet if I remember correctly.

what kind of house? what is the width of the back lane?

terrace house, 20x70. I have no idea what is the width of the back lane... it's narrow and you cannot drive through it (i.e. no road) is all I know..

Go to the local council, there is a comprehensive guide line there on all these.

U need at least 7' of setback, if already built, worse case scenario u have to demolish...better get a runner to settle with authority, maybe can kawtim

Yep, I'll have to go to the council and find out for myself what the laws and guidelines are. It's really hard to get reliable information. I need some clear black on white legal document. Guidelines seem to vary depending on who you ask... Such a mess.

I'm trying to strike a deal with the seller now, so that he bears the cost of tearing down if that has to be done, and I'll bear all other costs and fees...

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Added on May 18, 2012, 12:39 pmYeah, tearing down the back extension is a probability. I still have to figure out this setback limit. Would that mean you cannot fence your land and have to "give up" the last X feet? I can understand not allowing build up a massive wall / full height extension to the boundary line, but would "half height" wall + mesh wire fence (or whatever that let air goes through) be considered ok?

This post has been edited by cedm: May 18 2012, 12:39 PM