Hi,

It is possible to even install a inverter aircon using non inverter piping?
What will happen is do?

Regards

oo .. i don't know inverter aircond need inverter piping.. since my retailer shop want to install this saturday.. it got to know..

yes and no.

no for all inverters that run of CFC friendly gas.

yes for daikin because they still use the (obsolute) old type R22.

This is the R410 type? How much do air-con installers charge for refill of this gas typically?

he is referring to Daikin FTKD25DVM / RKD25DVM - HP:1


Its INverter but using non-inverter piping and R22 gas...the only Inverter aircond that is using R22 and Non Inverter piping

If you ask many a/c installer you can do it because they just solder a connection pipe.

Check with the a/c installer, is better to ask them for advice. Many of us here are guessing.

my piping is all concealed and it was done by my contractor before the aircon was installed by a different people. i'm using the latest panasonic inverter aircon.

i told my contractor to install inverter piping and he told me his people installed non-inverter piping. sh*t!!!

i am wonder it's possible for the aircon installer to not notice the difference in piping?

mine using York Model Y5WMY10 1.0hp .. so no need inverter piping .. how can i know they using CFC friendly gas??

It is not the installer problem. It will effect your aircon performance or something wrong with your aircon.

You read the manual right?

since they will install this saturday.. so i don't have any..

Sorry, I thaught the aircon already at your side. Why don't you rang up the shop and ask. And you still have a time to change if you want.

I read manual from internet .. refrigerant type : R410A .. is this CFC friendly gas??

hi, my developer has already install the a/c piping when i got the key..

so, how would i know whether the pipe is for inverter or non-inverter??

R410A is Ozone friendly gas but NOT environmental friendly gas. It still cause Green House effect to our Earth.

Yes,CFC friendly gas. It is the latest gas that some aircon use. My inverter aircon is using this gas too. The problem is, you need to remind them when you want service your aircon. Mostly service guy still don't know about this gas. So I don't bother to top up the gas.

ooo.. ok ..

Dear All,

The below will be my experience speaking.

R22 (HCFC) gas/ Freon/ refrigerant is what you use in most of the non-inverter models, regardless of brands. The R22 has lower operating pressure, hence it states that you need thinner gas tubes. Top up on this kind of is possible.

R410A (HFC) is the “new” gas where the operating pressure is approimately 1.6 to 1.8 times higher than R22, hence some of the manufacturer is recommending thicker tubes. However, these thicker tubes is not easily available in the market according to market spec, hence the price for these tubes will be high and not lots of installer carries stock. Top up on this kind of refrigerant is also possible, as the boiling point for all the refrigerant mixture is almost the same.

CFC is no longer available in the market. Banned long ago because of the effect to the environment. Production of R22 has been stopped in early this year, and what you get in the market now is recycled R22. Manufacturer assume that the price of R22 will go up as short of supply.

R410A is environmental friendly refrigerant as it does not deplete ozone/ zero ozone depletion potential (zero ODP). However, it still has certain level of Global Warming Potential (GWP). R22 on the other has a very low ODP, and relatively lower GWP compared to R410A

Installer will tell you the below 3 things about inverter pipings:-

1) Nothing will happen if you use thinner tubes, all my customer did not complain
2) Thick tubes I don’t have
3) I buy the tubes for you but it will be bloody expensive

I will say, if you already have new set of tubes installed in the wall, I will say go for it. Some of the manufacturer over-spec-ed their pipe thickness to cover their ass just in case things happened. My experience is the 0.33mm tube thickness (1/4”), 0.56mm tube thickness (1/2”) can with stand 600pascal testing pressure (approximately 450pascal operating pressure). The worst thing that will happen is that the tube will crack and gas will leak. No big deal actually. Since you have already concealed the wall, it is the matter of hacking it now or later. What if the tube did not crack? I am using inverter units with standard piping. Nothing happens…yet. If you are installing new, just get a thick pipe, so that there is no worry.

Tips for new installation of Inverter AC.

1) Make sure that they use the correct tool. For inverter AC, they will have a special gauge for inverter units
2) If you are recharging/ top up your R410A, make sure that the colour of the refrigerant tong is in pink, not other colour. R410A refrigerant only has one packaging. If they tell you can be used, chase them away. Don’t let them charge. Please note also brand new ACs do not need to add gas unless you exceeded their standard pipe length. If your installer says need to add gas, evaluate the piping length. If the piping does not exceed the standard length, and your installer says you need to add, he is conning you.
3) Just in case in any circumstance you are releasing all and re-charging the refrigerant to full, make sure that you know what is the initial amount of refrigerant (before 1st start up), so that you can put a weighing machine below the tong to ensure the real amount of refrigerant goes in. Installer in Malaysia uses only the gauge to measure. This is not wrong, but not really accurate. The pressure goes up by certain level, does not mean that the gas has go in at a certain weight.
4) Make sure that the refrigerant tong is at the right position (standing or reverse standing for certain tong model), to ensure gas form refrigerant is charged SLOWLY into the AC, not liquid. Liquid form of refrigerant will damage compressor at start up.
5) Make sure that the flaring of piping is done properly, no crack, no uneven, etc and please read the manual
6) Make sure your installer vacuum the system (standard procedure) at least for 20 minutes (not Malaysia standard procedure) to take out any residue in the piping before releasing the refrigerant from outdoor to the system. Imagine copper pipe cutting debris goes into your compressor.
7) If you have compressor burnt out and you wish to change AC, I will say dump the existing piping. If there is no choice, get your installer to vacuum the system kao kao kao kao before starting up. This is because burnt out compressor will have lots of “burn dirt” from compressor, sticking on to the pipes, and affecting the performance. Even if the performance is not your concern, the debris which still sticks to the pipe might come out one day and goes to your compressor. Compressor dies fast.
8) After the unit has been start up, the installer will run AC with full blast and lowest set temperature. This is standard procedure, but the important thing is to make sure the refrigerant runs to all indoor unit’s piping, to make sure that there is no clogging. How to do it? Only by touching every portion of fins to feel if it is cold and to see if all the parts has condensation water formed on it. Please differentiate between dripped condensation water and formed condensation water. If everything is OK, you are good to go.

This is just my personal experience and opinion..

I m going to install concealed NORMAL Piping for my renovation. This has been decided after I have asked a few questions to myself and also consulted some friends in the AC industry.

1) Are you installing Inverter ACs? Do you need Inverters?

2) Budget - Inverter piping is more expensive by about RM4-5 /
ft....might end up RM1-2k more ure paying depending on units and distance of piping

3) Inverter ACs maintenance - R410 is more expensive. Cleaning and chemical washing..we're looking at RM200-RM300 or more for 1HP AC

4) WHen is R22 phasing out...my friend told me approx. 10 years ..assuming he is correct...i think 10 yrs...is more than enuff

5) Inverter will only reduce power usage if it's continuously on for maybe about 8 hours or more

-------------------------------------

My Conclusion:

1) Inverter only suitable for my rooms cos I will on more than 8 hours...so for my rooms I m going to use Daikin Inverter that runs on R22 and normal piping

2) The rest are all using normal AC



Hope that helps

This post has been edited by coconutzz: May 16 2012, 11:39 AM

Please note, there is no soldering involved in the installation of Room Air-Cond. It will involves only flaring.

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Added on May 16, 2012, 11:46 amCheck it from the label on unit.

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Added on May 16, 2012, 11:49 amUse "venier" clipper, measure and match it against the standard piping thickness in the market. I am not sure if the "venier" is spell as "venier", but it sounded like that.

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Added on May 16, 2012, 11:55 amInverter start saving after the room condition has stabilised and the compressor RPM tunes down and slows down without needing to start stopping, hence saves energy. To achieve stable room condition, you need approximately 3 hours or less (not 8 hours or more), unless you open and close your door very frequest through put the time. Maintenance of Inverter AC is more expensive because of the refrigerant. Chemical used to wash the coil will be the same. Piping is also more expensive. Depending how is your ussage, inverter can be a good or bad choice. My view is that there is no point getting an inverter AC for living room which only uses AC for 1 hour. Can't save energy.


This post has been edited by lingleeyen: May 16 2012, 11:55 AM