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English Clubs Liverpool FC- The Kop Talk 2012, Bye Dirk Kuyt!

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prophetjul
post May 22 2012, 07:47 AM

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QUOTE(ALeUNe @ May 22 2012, 02:34 AM)
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport...-over-Mata.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/ma...-silva-valencia

If Rafa had the money to get David Silva and Mata, we would have seen D.Silva on the left and Mata on the right.
Just like the Ribery & Robben combo.  nod.gif

Chelsea paid 23.5 millions for Mata (that's cheap. Torres persuaded Mata to join Chelsea).
ManC paid 24 millions for D.Silva (that's cheap too).

Cheap?
Have you considered their salaries as well? nod.gif
prophetjul
post May 22 2012, 08:36 AM

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what Paul Dalglish thinks......about Liverpool's next manager


"First we have to be realistic, just like we have to be realistic with player targets. Many names have already turned it down. We are not
in the CL and we are not based in London. Many foreign managers and players want to live in London. Therefore we will have about
5th choice on players that want to come to the EPL after City, Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal and possibly Spurs. Tax in the UK for players is 50% (edit 45%)
so we have to pay players and coaches more to come here. So if we are 5th or 6th choice in the UK and behind other countries as a
destination to play, then we have to be realistic about who we can bring in and what players they can attract when we do.

Lets trim it down to the 3 main contenders that have been spoken about. Rafa, AVB and RM. All very different with pro's and cons.
RM is an ex team mate of mine so i am a little biased as i like him but i even i don't think he is ready for LFC. Just like you should
look at the big picture after bad times you need to look at the big picture in good times. Wigan were in the bottom 3 most of the season.
AVB is a more qualified candiate as he has been at the top level with Porto and Chelsea and will have learned how to deal with the
pressures of expectations at a big club and will be much better at dealing with it this time around hopefully but he is still a risk.

I believe the outstanding candidate is Rafa if you look at the big picture. A bad spell @ Inter should not affect his work at LFC & Valencia
also he has the support of all in the Academy as he employed them. I have self confessed clouded judgement when it comes to Rafa as
Instanbul was my greatest ever memory as a Kopite so i am biased. My heart says Rafa but i think it will be AVB!"

prophetjul
post May 22 2012, 09:37 AM

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QUOTE(ALeUNe @ May 22 2012, 09:25 AM)
They're cheap if we signed them first (before those rich clubs came knocking their doors).
Rafa did sign many players at rather cheap price.
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You posted them at those prices and called them cheap...if we signed them
when they were 17, they would be dirt cheap...... yawn.gif


Added on May 22, 2012, 9:39 am
QUOTE(koolspyda @ May 22 2012, 09:26 AM)
FACT

REALITY
now can some of you chaps, look at yourself in the mirror & stop asking for fantasy football managers ie mournino, and whatever your glorious player idol
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Looks more and more likely to be (dreading) Martin......

i asked the Nay-ers WHO?????

Which sane and successful manager would wanna come to work with a ONE year demand for success now?

Maybe we can ask RED Sox for help........baseball bats anyone?

This post has been edited by prophetjul: May 22 2012, 09:39 AM
prophetjul
post May 22 2012, 03:45 PM

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Try

K. Rajagopal
prophetjul
post May 23 2012, 07:33 AM

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QUOTE(maranello55 @ May 22 2012, 03:51 PM)
We sack a guy who put his heart onto the club, now we r interviewing the whole world. Brilliant.
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Exactly.....sacking Kenny will cause more harm and uncertainty than good and stability.
One year is just nonsense.
so begs the question: Which right minded successful manager would want to work with FSG?


Added on May 23, 2012, 7:38 am"You have constant change and if you have constant change, there's no continuity and no stability."- Digger Barnes



This post has been edited by prophetjul: May 23 2012, 07:38 AM
prophetjul
post May 23 2012, 07:55 AM

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QUOTE(nando @ May 23 2012, 07:50 AM)
worst case scenario? a Sven Goran Ericksonn type of mercenary-styled manager...come in with big reputation, take huge pay cheque...give it a try...and if things doesn't work out? another payout cheque...

BTW, i think the owners are out of their mind if they think firing , finding and hiring club football managers can be done like baseball style...
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Is that Capello as well?

Damage will be great if FSG cocks up with this new manager selection.
All in all a very bad decision to sack Kenny after ONE year.

As i have said before: Yanks play soccer, Engerlund play football.
prophetjul
post May 23 2012, 08:01 AM

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QUOTE(koolspyda @ May 23 2012, 07:56 AM)
Was listening to a podcast the other day of some ex english players, word around the camp, he's (di matteo) is only able to offer collective views from the senior players around there, even in team selections.

Not someone who really orchestrates, what he does was seek & goes by the majority how the team is selected, formation etc. He doesn't enforce the "i'm the manager, but hey I'm just a class monitor, I'm one of you guys, ok" (which is why i guess a certain striker felt pissed there)  cool2.gif

which is why i guess, RA isn't gonna risk a that for long term.
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Really sounds like Luck huh? biggrin.gif
prophetjul
post May 23 2012, 08:32 AM

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Interesting stats..........Stevie and Lucas

QUOTE
Scored/assisted as many goals in the league as Downing and Carroll combined. Still a decent goal threat. We'll find use for him yet.

There's nothing wrong with praising an individual performance where a player scores & creates near everything for us in the game, and in such spectacularly dramatic fashion.
All else being equal, but it isn't, so perhaps it's a bit daft. You got the numbers wrong, I think it's 11 wins from 26 appearences and 7 draws. 42.3% overall. Not enough to draw strong conslusions from the numbers alone.

http://www.whoscored.com/Players/17/Fixtures/Steven-Gerrard



I left out the sub appearances....so;(from lfcstats.co.uk)

All season, without gerrard    21 games..31 points.  With Gerrard  12 games..11 points.

For those who think the difference was down to the loss of Lucas.....

From after Lucas' injury....

Without Gerrard..11 games..16 points.....With Gerrard..10 games...9 points....

All season Goals for/against per game without Gerrard  1.19 and 1.19

All season Goals for/against per game with Gerrard  1.16 and 1.25

So, when Gerrard plays from the start....we score fewer goals...we concede more goals and we get about half a point less per game.
But hey...these are just facts.....



prophetjul
post May 23 2012, 09:30 AM

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QUOTE(leftist @ May 23 2012, 09:28 AM)
Van Gaal's work with Ajax and Barcelona undoubtedly appeals to Liverpool's owners as they conduct an overhaul at Anfield and look to imprint a playing philosophy throughout every level of the club. That strengthens his claims for the proposed sporting director role, although Van Gaal has not yet called time on his managerial career and was linked with PSV Eindhoven before their recent appointment of d*** Advocaat

the playing philosophy..this what was done in barca & ajax..players from youth to first team playing similar system philosophy..one thing i'm worried bout Van Gaal,he's not the most friendly..his style might offended several people sweat.gif
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Why d*** Advocaat? Thats a name! biggrin.gif
prophetjul
post Jun 1 2012, 09:30 AM

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QUOTE(Cloud0890 @ Jun 1 2012, 09:01 AM)
Do not expect too much too soon. No quick fix here. I'm ready for at least 3-4 more seasons of CL exile if it means long term progress for the club.
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Expecting nothing............BUT can you say the same of FSG?
Only time will tell whether their actions be genius or foolish.......
prophetjul
post Jun 1 2012, 09:41 AM

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QUOTE(Duke Red @ Jun 1 2012, 09:38 AM)
Puzzling how on one hand you slam Kenny and on the other you admit we were actually pretty decent and were unlucky to have hit the woodwork as many times as we did.
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Some here are rather fickle schizos....
They will be calling for Frasers head if he loses 3 games on the trot
prophetjul
post Jun 3 2012, 08:59 AM

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Tiki Taka

http://www.eplindex.com/14987/brendan-rodg...t-tikitaka.html

Brendan Rodgers’ Tactical Approach: How Liverpool adapt to Tiki-Taka?
May 31, 2012 7:14 am TPiMBW 27,595 Views 55 comments
EPL Index Featured Article, EPL Index Opinion, EPLIndex Tactical Report, Liverpool
Brendan Rodgers is a man who has an appreciation of footballing perception and culture, regardless of its roots, a man who strives for perfection in the evolution of the game. The strategies of ‘Tiki-Taka’ and ‘totaal-voetbal’ form the basis of Brendan Rodgers’ modus operandi.

For Rodgers the season of 2011/12 will be regarded as the touchstone for 2012/13, this time however, he’ll be upgrading the apparatus of which he conducts his orchestra. In contrast, the season of 2011/12 for Liverpool Football Club was one to forget – a season of ‘comme ci, comme ça’. While Rodgers was masterminding world-class performances from a hamper of championship (or adequate premier league) players, Liverpool were staging average performances week in, week out with players of a different calibre. This article aims to reveal the ‘magic’ ingredients that Brendan Rodgers prepared his Swansea class of 2011/12 with.

Rodgers, like Mourinho, is a footballing scholar and to further the similarity also employs strict strategy in his approach to the game. However, that’s where the similarities come to an end; each represents alternative ends of the spectrum in footballing theory:

“I like to control games. I like to be responsible for our own destiny. If you are better than your opponent with the ball you have a 79 per cent chance of winning the game…for me it is quite logical. It doesn’t matter how big or small you are, if you don’t have the ball you can’t score.” (Rodgers 2012)

Maintaining possession, working the ball through various channels and quality of goal scoring opportunities (rather than quantity) are apropos of the Tiki-Taka school of football. To achieve the success found implementing Tiki-Taka football, not only are a particular set of players required but a template to enable the ever-flowing movement advocated by Spain, Barça and Swansea:

“My template for everything is organisation. With the ball you have to know the movement patterns, the rotation, the fluidity and positioning of the team. Then there’s our defensive organisation…so if it is not going well we have a default mechanism which makes us hard to beat and we can pass our way into the game again. Rest with the ball. Then we’ll build again.” (Rodgers 2012)

For Liverpool, a new set of fundamentals will need to be put into place; a move away from the over-reliance on direct football that maximizes the quantity of goal scoring opportunities and not quality - a degree of trust will need to be installed in the individual’s know-how and when to shoot or make the decision that the opportunity is only a half chance and not a sure thing. The approach works on the principles that ‘the whole is greater that then sum of its parts’:

“The strength of us is the team. Leo Messi has made it very difficult for players who think they are good players. He’s a real team player. He is ultimately the best player in the world and may go on to become the best ever. But he’s also a team player…If you have someone like Messi doing it then I’m sure my friend Nathan Dyer can do it. It is an easy sell.” (Rodgers 2012)

The Rodgers strategy
Brendan Rodgers, in early 2012, sketched out his strategy and explained his approach to the game for journalist Duncan White. First, he divided the pitch into eight zones and then plotted his formation. The division of zones is suggestive that each player when in possession should play a particular role, including the goal keeper and two centre backs:

“When we have the football everybody’s a player. The difference with us is that when we have the ball we play with 11 men, other teams play with 10 and a goalkeeper.” (Rodgers 2012)

The formation moves away from the given 4-4-2, 4-3-3, 4-5-1 etc way of thinking and towards a concept of zones within the playing field.

user posted image

Zone 1 – sweeper goalkeeper’ – This specialised zone is expected to take charge of a much larger zone in Tiki-Taka football compared to the more direct approach. The emphasis is on the goalkeeper to play with the ball at his feet and play far more short threaded passes than usual. Characteristics in this role include: good stature, efficiency with balls in the air, bravery, agility and willingness to play on the deck without fear – the keeper is expected to act as a pressure relief for under pressure team mates. Given that Liverpool’s Reina received his education at Barcelona’s La Masia it will come as a natural for Reina to play the required role in zone 1.

Zone 2 - the ‘líbero’ – The players in zone 2 are (like the goalkeeper) expected to play a much larger role in ‘keep-ball’. They are too expected to act as pressure relief to a compact midfield as a way-out option. The two centre backs are expected to compliment one another: one technically brilliant and one with a powerful physical presence (see: Puyol-Pique). The more technical of the two is to act as a playmaker for changing the pace of the game – Ashley Williams made more long ball attempts than any other outfield player during 2011/12, mostly fast yet grounded balls played forward to feet. As a ‘líbero’ you have the whole picture in front of you – you are in a position to say pim let’s go this way, pim let’s go that way.

Zone 3 – the ‘volante de salida’ – This player must be particularly good at playing his way out of trouble and yet still excellent at winning the ball back. Typical characteristics are the ability to read the game, act as an outlet for under-pressure team mates consistently and continually pass the ball within pressure:

“I get the ball, I pass, I get the ball, I pass, I get the ball, I pass.” (Xavier Hernandez 2011)

Xavi’s hypnotic approach to the game summarises the mindset for the player in this particular zone and like Leon Britton should boast a remarkably high pass completion rate – a 93.3% pass rate was widely acknowledged in January 2012.

Zone 4 – the wing backs – the players in this zone will need to be prepared to work particularly hard up and down the wing; both defensively and in more advanced positions. It is important to note that crosses will now be made from the by-line rather than from deep – within zone G (8). Liverpool currently boasts a number of players who can fulfil this role – Johnson, Kelly, Enrique.

Zone 5 – the box to box creative midfielders – flair, the ability to change the pace of the game within a second, the decision of when to do so and an all round technical ability are required to fulfil the roles in zone 5. Zone 5 players are expected to continually find space amongst the ‘traffic’ and complete the triangles in possession. The players should not constantly look to create the spectacular but are expected to simply knit the possession and keep the ball more often than not. Steven Gerrard is one player who may have to adapt to fit within this role and play keep ball rather than looking to create often – however will no doubt still act as a catalyst to change the game.

Zone 6 – the inside forwards – Messi, Alexis Sanchez, Sinclair, Dyer et al. all represent the highly creative, technically gifted and unpredictable player expected to fulfil the requirements of this zone. Luis Suarez is one player who could walk into the Barcelona model and will no doubt provide Liverpool with the answers in this zone.

Zone 7 - the linking target man – This player is expected to be technically gifted when assessing his first touch, link up play and off ball movement. Carroll may well represent a target man, whether he adapts to act as a target man in this model is a question yet to be asked of him. While Carroll possesses world-class aerial ability, questions may be asked of his ability on the deck as well as his off ball movement. However, towards the end of the 2011/2012 season Carroll showed glimpses of being an extremely hardworking forward and may well find much success in this role. Anyone lucky enough to watch Fabio Borini will know that he was a huge loss to Swansea this past year, despite the success of Danny Graham.

Zone G (8) – the goal scoring opportunity and assist zone – this zone is vastly important zone to understand. The quality of chances cannot be stressed enough. Liverpool has, over the past five years, been noted for creating chance after chance without scoring. The players who break into this zone should be extremely good at making the decision as to whether a goal scoring opportunity is available or to turn back and play the ball back into the organism of Tiki-Taka. Barcelona however, highlighted the danger in over relying on this concept as their play became slower and more predictable as the game went on against Chelsea in the Champions League 2011/12. For situations like this, just maybe Steven Gerrard will recreate the brilliance he showed against Olympiakos (2004) and West Ham (2006). However, a balance between the Tiki-Taka patience and Gerrard’s direct play will be reworked under Rodgers without a doubt. As a general rule, one goal should be scored to every nine shots.

En Assemble - The formation laid out sets about moving forward as a team and defending as a unit too. The team are expected, rather poetically, to move back and forth much like turquoise waves crashing onto shore:

“You win the ball back when there are thirty metres to their goal not eighty” (Guardiola 2009)

Conclusion
Whether or not Rodgers’ methodology is a success at Liverpool is the question. However, the success may come down to the amount of control Rodgers is offered over the club structure: from the academy to the first team. Liverpool have kept no secrets in their approach to managers and directors this summer but all roads point to one single conceptual view of football – that of Barcelona and La Masia; the hope of becoming a successful club in perpetuity.

The variable of ‘time’ presents Liverpool with the biggest challenge. Tiki-Taka football simply does not transpire from one single season of transitional change – just ask A.S. Roma and Luis Enrique of 2011/12. Swansea were already a technically gifted side and good in possession long before Brendan Rodgers, both P.Sousa and R.Martinez provided the club with the foundations. The core of the Swansea side has been with the club for many years; Tiki-Taka has become the club’s tradition.

However, Liverpool needs change – the club needs to move away from the over reliance on two or three individuals and a move away from the many, many wasted chances over the years. Progress and longevity are the goals of Liverpool & Brendan Rodgers and it is this collaboration of ideologies that may well lead Brendan Rodgers and Liverpool back to the glory years of yesteryear, a glimpse of futuristic realistic success.

Liverpool needs to restructure from the ground up and no man is better suited to become Liverpool’s very own Pep Guardiola than Brendan Rodgers. Liverpool fans should expect the unexpected. But then again, what’s new here? Liverpool were 3 nil down at the Atatürk Stadium when half time came in 2005.

“…and Milan now, playing football out of this world…”

Clive Tyldsley’s voice echoed. The rest…

prophetjul
post Jun 3 2012, 03:30 PM

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QUOTE(Duke Red @ Jun 3 2012, 12:19 PM)
I'd prefer Gerrard sit deeper with Aquaman (provided he stays with us) further up the park. I think he'll thrive in Rodger's system of play. In the times that I've seen him near the opposition box, he's been composed, tidy and sharp. I see him as the pivot up front, not Stevie who as I said earlier, is more the lung bursting, blood and guts type player. If anything, we use Aquaman as the focal point in midfield with Stevie playing off him, looking to make runs at the opposition goal.
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Stevie has almost always been poor playing deep. Cant see him and Aquaman playing together in a team.
Unless Stevies played outside right.



Left ................. Suarez.................. Stevie


................Aquaman.......... Jonjo/Henderson......................


.............................Lucas................................

This post has been edited by prophetjul: Jun 3 2012, 03:31 PM
prophetjul
post Jun 4 2012, 07:45 AM

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QUOTE(hfi @ Jun 4 2012, 01:42 AM)
So 6 of our boys are heading to Euros; Johnson, Kelly, Gerrard, Hendo, Downing and Carroll. Good luck to them because they will need it lol. I do kinda feel obligated to support England now :/
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Only fear- injuries, fatique as the Eurocup starts early.............
prophetjul
post Jun 4 2012, 09:06 AM

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QUOTE(leftist @ Jun 4 2012, 08:47 AM)
who the hell is sylgi?? rclxub.gif
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Gylfi Sigurðsson

Swansea's player of the season ........on loan fro Hoffenhiem
prophetjul
post Jun 4 2012, 09:27 AM

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QUOTE(leftist @ Jun 4 2012, 09:26 AM)
i tot there is a new player other than Gylfi we're link with biggrin.gif
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Same and only........ sad.gif so far smile.gif
prophetjul
post Jun 4 2012, 12:00 PM

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QUOTE(Yluxion @ Jun 4 2012, 11:48 AM)
cannot touch Swansea players for 1 season.  tongue.gif
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Why not?
prophetjul
post Jun 5 2012, 09:05 AM

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QUOTE(koolspyda @ Jun 5 2012, 08:31 AM)
as expected.

modest transfer budget. size depends on sale of players. think i heard of that before.
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As expected....cos you are dealing with Yankee franchaise men........
They are not Liverpool FC....they are FSG........ Yankee franchaise men
prophetjul
post Jun 5 2012, 09:29 AM

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QUOTE(carloz28 @ Jun 5 2012, 09:10 AM)
Hazard joining Chelsea for 32mil. That's 3mil less than what we paid for Andy Carroll. Good lord.

Again, it is times like these that makes me think what could have happen to Liverpool last season if we didn't blew off our coffers on Brit boys. That maybe the only window where FSG are willing to splash the cash on players, because Henry & Co need to earn the supporters' trust after they took over.

Now looks like we are going the moneyball way. Will FSG's sabermetric approach that brought them success in baseball work in EPL? Only time will tell. By the way, anybody knows what is the current status of the Boston Red Sox team? Are they still standing strong in MLB or faded out after 2008?

I don't expect BR to win anything in his first year but I would certainly love to see an improvement in the team.

Now, STOP losing to mid table teams in EPL. That should be a good start.
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Stop moaning about the past when we sold Tor for 50 mil.......all hedged to the purchase of Carroll. nod.gif
prophetjul
post Jun 5 2012, 09:36 AM

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QUOTE(Petre @ Jun 5 2012, 09:34 AM)
doesnt mean when you win a lottery you can just pay over the odds for stuff... anyway, await the day the lad justify the 35m price tag. maybe he will after the euro who knows...

how will the bluense fit our plans? lucas is coming back right?
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Again the purchase price is hedged to Tor's selling price......plus Tor wanted out in the last minute of JANUARY.
Which top striker would wanna leave in this window?

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