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English Clubs Liverpool FC- The Kop Talk 2012, Liverpool 2-1 Everton- FA CUP FINAL NEXT

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Rotuham
post Apr 12 2012, 01:19 PM

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QUOTE(Duke Red @ Apr 12 2012, 01:11 PM)
To start with, I wasn't the one complaining about the season. I'm content with seeing how things pan out under Kenny's 3 year contract. I'm putting perspective into situation for those that are. I've repeatedly backed the new owners for having a vision and doing things right off the pitch. My point (once again) is to highlight that not all of the blame lies on the shoulders of Kenny.

Comprehensible? You might want to consider the above because hazarding a guess at what I'm getting at.
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Mr sentimentalist,you just failed miserably when you said fsg wanted young british players.Not all the blame lies on the shoulders of kenny but the blame should be shared equally between kenny and comolli.They decide who we buy and how we play.Don't drag the owners in to this.They are only responsible for signing cheques.

This post has been edited by Rotuham: Apr 12 2012, 01:21 PM
Rotuham
post Apr 12 2012, 01:35 PM

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QUOTE(Duke Red @ Apr 12 2012, 01:25 PM)
You don't seem to understand that I'm not blaming anyone am I? Since when have I complained about the season, the players or anyone? I've reiterated time and time again that the owners are planning for the long run or has this escaped you? I'm bringing the new owners into the discussion so that those who are blaming KK, Comolli or whoever for dodgy buys know why we haven't gone out to buy big names. How can you not bring them into the discussion when they developed the new wage bill and decided on the whole young and English policy. Before you go on to suggest that I'm blaming them again, I have said before and I will say again, that I back their decision to do so. I want to see more than anyone, young Scouse or English talent come through, and I want them to build a team for the future.

If you can, please highlight when I layed blame on anyone. I've always advocated patience reiterating that the owners have said they are looking to the future.
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Show me proof that fsg decided on the whole british policy.Wage bill yes,young yes but not british.That is probably kenny's idea more than anyone else.
He tried repeating his formula from 1987 and his time with blackburn and it has failed in the short term.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2011/aug/0...hampions-league

If i was john henry i will be disappointed with kenny and demand answers from him.

I agree with young scouse but why other english talent? Are they any more loyal to the club than foreigners?What's your proof for this?

This post has been edited by Rotuham: Apr 12 2012, 01:36 PM
Rotuham
post Apr 12 2012, 01:50 PM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Apr 12 2012, 01:36 PM)
Like said, Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
Whilst said, you cant say Adam was a failure at Blackpool.....so you must have insight or hindsight!   smile.gif

Jumping the gn a bit arent we?

Next season we will have Lucas, Agger amd johnson back.
Seen the impact of Agger?
i guess we will see an even bigger impact of Lucas....i really believe that. Bigger tha Stevie.
IMHO we lost the way with Lucas injured thsi season.

i am looking forward to them coming back.
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Adam did well only for the first half of the season at blackpool last year.He captained his side to relegation and it was well known before we bought him that he is a defensive liability.

I have seen the impact of agger many years ago but shouldn't we have learnt that he will not play a full season?He was always gonna get injured at some point.So what do we do then?Hope we get lucky in the meantime? We make our own luck.

Lucas was playing well but we were drawing games way before he got injured.To pin all of our performances on one player is absurd.Yes you are right,the season would have been better if lucas had played but how much better?Maybe 5 to 6 points higher if we turn our losses into draws?

And i think agger and johnson has only missed march.Our poor form started since the start of 2012.They couldn't do much do they.
I think it speaks a lot for your team when our defenders especially agger and skrtel have got more assists and goals than our midfield combined.

PS: When i say midfield i mean the regulars adam,henderson and downing.

This post has been edited by Rotuham: Apr 12 2012, 01:51 PM
Rotuham
post Apr 12 2012, 02:04 PM

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QUOTE(Duke Red @ Apr 12 2012, 01:55 PM)
We're settled on the wage bill then.

In terms of going British, fair enough. It isn't FSG's veto decision. All the parties i.e. FSG, Kenny and Comolli came to a concensus under the recommendation of Dalglish and Comolli. Consideration however needs to be given to the HG rule, which you're right, does not mean we have to sign English talent just so long as they were developed in England but by and large HG talent are English or British at least. KK didn't exactly fail with this policy at Liverpool. He did sign Peter Beardsley and John Barnes. He also won the league with Blackburn but those were different times of course.
John Henry has demanded answers and Kenny is submitting a report to him. Was highlighted in the media a couple of days ago.

I didn't say I want to sign young English talent, I said I can see their reasoning behind doing so as English players cost a lot thus yielding high profit in future. I want to see more Scouse talent e.g. the next Carra or Stevie. Not only because of loyalty but also because they are likely to be more passionate on the pitch.
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That says it all.I meant that it failed in second his stint.I didn't say it failed last time doh.gif

I would like to see your reasoning on how carroll,downing and henderson will yield a profit in the future?

Teams will pay 20million max for carroll and how is downing's value going to increase at the age of 28 not to mention he is a one dimensional player.
Henderson no matter how much potential he has,he doesn't look like he is gonna be a super star.He will be decent player in the mould of carrick,parker and perhaps barry.Shelvey looks more likely to reach super star status in the footsteps of gerrard and lampard.
Rotuham
post Apr 12 2012, 02:12 PM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Apr 12 2012, 01:57 PM)
Was Adam bought for defensive play? I didnt realise that!

what you said:
Yet earlier on you said
So what is it?  biggrin.gif  You are the second one today who seems to contradict himself in the next breath.

This season we had a compound of problems. We lost Suarez for quite a number of matches as well.
Stevie was also out for some time.
When you have a new team, and they cant play together for a sustained period, its
pretty hard to make them gel, dont you think?
Agger and Johnson missing compounded the 6 loss matches......evidence enough?

Yes, i do agree the midfeild lacks goal contribution.


Added on April 12, 2012, 2:01 pm
i problem....Hiindisght....i do agree with that BUT thats hindsight.
Downing was player on fire at Villa. Was player of the year for them.
Henderson was for the future..
Carrooll was also on fire..
Adam we agree a bargain as cover for Stevie...will not be surprsied to see him go with Jonjo coming through.

Aquaman does not wanna play for Liverpool.....


Added on April 12, 2012, 2:02 pmBTW when does the homegrown rule take effect?
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Adam was pretty much orchestrated blackpool's attack and was responsible for their good form.In blackpool's case they suffered as he lost his form.

While in liverpool's case we sucked even before lucas got injured.We drew 1-1 with sunderland,norwich,man utd,man city and 0-0 with swansea as well as lost 1-0 to stoke away in the league.Lucas is job is to break up play and protect our defence.He doesn't win us games like adam did with blackpool

It's different in every case and i don't see a contradiction here.
Rotuham
post Apr 12 2012, 02:15 PM

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QUOTE(ALeUNe @ Apr 12 2012, 02:13 PM)
Bad decision it is. This is exactly when the criticism comes.
King Kenny made the decision. Thus he gets the criticism.
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Good point.But for some of them kenny is beyond criticism and questioning.
No matter how much you argue they wont accept what you say.
Rotuham
post Apr 12 2012, 03:03 PM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Apr 12 2012, 02:19 PM)
Yoou contradict yerself buy saying
and yet you seem to blame Adam for Blackpool's relegation?? 

Whether Liverpool sucked or not, that statement you made contradicts with this one
Were we that bad with Lucas?

We were beating the big teams while i do agree the home form vs the small teams was dire....
Protecting the defence is part of football. We had one of the best defensive stats with him in the side.
That was part of the reason why we were so high up the table inspite of the scoring difficulties.


Added on April 12, 2012, 2:20 pm
Its ok to criticise but how in the world would you know that Aquaman can do better?

Hindsight or foresight or insight?  biggrin.gif
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What contradiction la brader.I already said it depends on the team.Arsenal are a one team this season while you can't say the same for united.Arsenal will suffer if RVP gets injured while mu are top without their best player and captain last season in vidic.

I hope you did see the word our performances It's absurd because you seem to think we will in top 4 if lucas was around.He won't do much to affect our inability to breakdown teams.I wouldnt exactly call it beating the big teams.We drew with united and city while we lost to tottenham.


Rotuham
post Apr 12 2012, 03:11 PM

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QUOTE(Duke Red @ Apr 12 2012, 02:45 PM)
I didn't say Downing was going to yield profit. I explicitly mentioned Carroll and Henderson. In my opinion, it's too early to say for sure that they'll never amount to anything. If Henderson turns out to be a Parker, I'd be more than happy. I keep saying it's a risk to invest in young talent because you never know what the end product will be but it was a calculated risk on our behalf based on the seasons they had prior. If they turn out to be duds, then we made a bad decision and if they flourish provided they are given a stay of execution over the next 2 seasons or so, we made good investments. Why don't you tell me why you think these two players who are in their early 20's will amount to nothing instead, and not turn out to be a Lucas or Carra? I saw no early evidence of either of them turning out to be stars either and yet they did.

I never said Kenny is beyond criticism. I'm pointing out that there are other factors or influences, something no one spoke about before this whole conversation began. Didn't see anyone calling for Comolli so be sacked before this whole debate started. Just as you say people are misinterpreting you, might you not be guilty of the same?
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Yes it's too early to say which was why i said it has been a failure in the short term.
I never said these two players will amount to nothing.I take it that you skip my posts on here all these while.
I have defended carroll when people were blaming him solely for our draws and defeats.

Carra was never a star.He's a liverpool legend but not a star.You should ask neutrals about that.Carra shouldn't be in this anyway because he was an academy product.

What i questioned is kenny's inability to pick the best team.How do you justify the team selection against stoke at anfield in january?
Why can't he be criticised for that? Everything kenny does is a midas touch for you.God(not fowler tongue.gif ) help liverpool if everyone thinks like that.
Rotuham
post Apr 12 2012, 03:23 PM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Apr 12 2012, 03:19 PM)
Who bothers about stars??  rclxub.gif    biggrin.gif

Case, Smith, Neal,Thompson, Houghton, Beardsley, Aldridge, Macmahon, Nicol, Abblet, Gillespie werent stars......
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True.They functioned as team.But ask yourself this.Would carragher get into the 80's team?
Rotuham
post Apr 12 2012, 06:12 PM

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Well,that's quite shocking shocking.gif

The owners like i said are result oriented and are probably contemplating kenny's future as well.

Family reasons is nonsense i guess.This i believe gives a better picture
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/...of-results.html

Anyway,thanks a lot comolli for the hard work you put.YNWA bye.gif

This post has been edited by Rotuham: Apr 12 2012, 06:15 PM
Rotuham
post Apr 12 2012, 06:25 PM

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QUOTE(ALeUNe @ Apr 12 2012, 06:24 PM)
No matter how you look at it, this is not the right time to let King Kenny go. Just not now. We have unfinished job.

Big game is coming on Saturday. King Kenny still needs to prove his worth by winning the cup.
This could keep everyone on their toes now.
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Don't get me wrong,i didn't say that he must leave now.I said owners might be contemplating on kenny's future at the end of the season.

@philmcnulty
Kenny Dalglish on Comolli's departure: "Everyone who has come into the club since Damien has been here was of my choice."
Rotuham
post Apr 12 2012, 06:31 PM

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QUOTE(weichieh007 @ Apr 12 2012, 06:27 PM)
The owners are putting HUGE emphasis on this Saturday's semifinal.
By sacking Comolli ahead of the game, there are making a clear statement.

I have a bad feeling for Kenny if we lost to Everton at Wembley.
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Yes that's what i think too regardless of fans opinion.
Rotuham
post Apr 12 2012, 06:38 PM

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Rafa benitez for director of football brows.gif
Rotuham
post Apr 12 2012, 06:45 PM

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QUOTE(solstice818 @ Apr 12 2012, 06:42 PM)
I have to break the silence and let the cat out of the bag....

Actually.... the sacking for DC is because Rafa is returning and he doesnt want no shit from a DOF. You hear it first here.... #truestory  tongue.gif
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returning as waiter at anfield cafe? tongue.gif
Rotuham
post Apr 12 2012, 06:53 PM

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QUOTE(Adryan @ Apr 12 2012, 06:52 PM)
Nope!

It's going to be Kenny Dalglish as DoF and Rafa as manager wink.gif
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I said it in jest shakehead.gif
Rotuham
post Apr 12 2012, 07:17 PM

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QUOTE(hyperyouth_firepower @ Apr 12 2012, 07:11 PM)
if that happens, it will be an interestng one. Rafa micro-manages evry little detail, down to diet and choice of studs. Even the youth team.

let Rafa loose on the stats. i'll say for a person forced to buy second choice players, he's managed it well.
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Dude,it was a joke.I don't want rafa back in any capacity in the near future.Not till he proves himself with another club again.There must be some reason he is jobless now.Infact,i think we should do away with the DoF post.Nobody nows what the job entails.

This post has been edited by Rotuham: Apr 12 2012, 07:18 PM
Rotuham
post Apr 12 2012, 07:22 PM

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QUOTE(hfi @ Apr 12 2012, 07:19 PM)
He has nothing to prove to you. Stop being so precious.
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That's just my opinion.We are looking to the past again if FSG decide to do away with kenny.

Like someone said,rafa overachieved in his first season here.It was downhill all the way from there.
Rotuham
post Apr 12 2012, 07:29 PM

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QUOTE(hfi @ Apr 12 2012, 07:26 PM)
You can't hide behind oh that's just my opionion. Rafa has nothing to prove to you. Absolutely nothing. And overachieving is actually a good thing, not a bad thing.
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While kenny is still here,we have to be respectful to him.Any talk about replacements is unnecessary as long as he is manager.


Added on April 12, 2012, 7:33 pm
QUOTE(Zephyr_Mage @ Apr 12 2012, 07:28 PM)
Really?
Other than his last season which was marred by events off-pitch, we slowly climbed the league table, and in his 2nd last season we took the title race to the wire.
Also we were feared in Europe. Every time we stepped onto the pitch we knew we were gonna take the game to the opposition. Remember how we feared no one during the CL draws?

I am not sure Rafa can win us the title if he came back. But what you said was disrespectful of what he did for us.
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Please i dont want to start another debate here.I respect rafa and what he did for us.He's appearance at hillsborough memorial really made my respect for him reach another level.However on the footballing side,i think he lost the plot in 09/10 season.His stint at inter milan didn't do much to change that either.

This post has been edited by Rotuham: Apr 12 2012, 07:33 PM
Rotuham
post Apr 12 2012, 07:43 PM

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QUOTE(hfi @ Apr 12 2012, 07:34 PM)
And who is talking about replacing him with Rafa ? You began by flamebaiting saying Rafa should come in as DOF, then said it was all a jest and then saying he's not good enough for you. Naturally people will defend his good name.
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user posted image

Even banter is flamebaiting now? The only logic in rafa coming back would be to replace kenny as manager.so i assumed you talked about this.
Rotuham
post Apr 12 2012, 07:56 PM

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QUOTE(hfi @ Apr 12 2012, 07:53 PM)
You have no problem mentioning Rafa's name - apparently in jest which suggests mockery. But the moment people come defend his name you start calling out the respect the manager card. Clearly there are some people here that do not get your banter at all. Either you drop those fail banter attempts or have decency to think before you post.
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Wow,you make it sound like i hate rafa and i have an agenda against him.The ''some'' people may only be you perhaps.Either you don't reply to my comments or get some sense of humour in your brain before you do it.

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