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 GENNEVA MALAYSIA, some facts.., READ and UNDERSTAND

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celicaizpower
post Oct 1 2012, 11:32 PM

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QUOTE(MBC270cdi @ Oct 1 2012, 09:20 PM)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «
I agree with you MBC270cdi, It is a very sad day to those who are in the waiting period. Few of my friends are now stuck since they haven't get their gold yet. I sincerely hope the government can finish their investigation ASAP so that the investors can either continue their business or get their funds back.

I understand that there are more than 60k people who are investing with Genneva. Some of them are people with influence. Hopefully they help to get this expedited.


celicaizpower
post Oct 2 2012, 08:15 PM

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Wow, I find this thread has a lot of negative influence in it. Majority of the post for the last few pages are some what leading to "I TOLD YOU SO" statements. I would just like to remind everyone of the current status, Genneva got their assets freeze. It does not necessary means they are a scam company.

I know according to Gark (in spoiler below) based on history, can consider the investment money totally lost, but still this is an assumption. For all we know once the investigation is complete the company returns back to business as usual. What I am saying here is that, till it becomes fact please refrain yourself.

A good example is when US started the war with Vietnam, everyone thought US will win but then at the end againts all odds, that small group of Asian dudes beat the $hit out of the Americans smile.gif

Quoting a Ustaz: "Kalau tak tau, buat cara tak tahu kalau nanti salah orang panggil bodoh, marah.."

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


Btw, I am neither a pro or anti Genneva. I just pity some of my friends that their investment got stucked for the time being.
celicaizpower
post Oct 2 2012, 08:54 PM

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QUOTE(gark @ Oct 2 2012, 08:44 PM)
You should read the Singapore case more, out of 7 directors, 3 directors are exactly the same with Genneva Sdn Bhd, Genneva Malaysia Sdn Bhd & Samudra Gold Sdn Bhd.

The directors include Ng Poh Weng, Marcus Yee and Chin Wai Leong. All 3 are Malaysians, all facing charges in KL under the Banking & Financial Institutions Act BAFIA, and the Anti Money Laundering Act AMLATFA. The 3 person are alleged to have absconded with at least RM47 million from the bank accounts of Genneva Sdn Bhd, the subject of the Bank Negara investigation.

In the Singapore case, 500kg of gold worth SGD 32.5 mil recorded in the books as assets were missing, liabilities is SGD 73 mil (money owe to creditors & investors) and asset SGD 61 million (money & gold invested by investor).  A company that is unable to honor its obligations or becomes insolvent will have to be wound up under costly legal procedures. Upon liquidation, almost always, the creditors are left with NOTHING.

Under company laws, the shareholders and directors of a bankrupt co are not responsible or liable for the company debts or promises, so you cannot sue them successfully.

After 4 times history repeating, with the same owners, same companies, I must congratulate you on your confidence. Hopefully BNM raided them before they can move the money/gold and hopefully those poor investors get back at least some of their 'investments'.  sweat.gif
*
I think you have misunderstood me, I did not in any way said that I have confidence in them. I am stating, till it becomes a FACT what you are saying is just an assumption.

No offense intended... but let it become fact first before bragging.. smile.gif


Added on October 2, 2012, 8:55 pm
QUOTE(gark @ Oct 2 2012, 08:44 PM)
These directors and owners definitely deserve their jail time, but most probably they have already hidden the movement of money through money laundering means. Unfortunately in most cases, they escape unscathed to try again on other 'naive' investors.
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This I 100% agree upon if after the investigation the company is proven to be a fraud. smile.gif

This post has been edited by celicaizpower: Oct 2 2012, 08:55 PM
celicaizpower
post Oct 2 2012, 10:00 PM

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QUOTE(Kaka23 @ Oct 2 2012, 09:56 PM)
Pro genneve camp ppl seems to be non so polite I would say..
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Well you wouldn't be too, if suddenly the Police, Domestic Trade, Cooperatives and Consumerism Ministry, Companies Commission & BNM lock all your money rite?

again, till the official statement from BNM comes out let's sit and watch. I sincerely hope the people get their money back.

This post has been edited by celicaizpower: Oct 2 2012, 10:00 PM
celicaizpower
post Oct 2 2012, 10:14 PM

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QUOTE(learn2earn8 @ Oct 2 2012, 10:07 PM)
they had been impolite since day1 and not suddenly la  doh.gif
u can tell that to those who invested in genneva part1, samudra and konco2 kawannya to wait patiently  yawn.gif
guess they did not read the memo that "Genneva has designed and packaged their products so well that Bank Negara cannot prosecute them outright. Precisely. No laws broken, what to prosecute?". prepare to have giraffe neck while waiting la  brows.gif
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I was referring to the video only. Not sure about the normal impoliteness, my friends in Genneva seems to be very good with me. So I take it that what you mention is not for all.

Well I hope they don't have to wait long, but if I was one of them I would gather all the investors and make a protest tomorrow in front of BNM & call the media for coverage. Well at a minimum that would at least make them expedite the investigation.
celicaizpower
post Oct 2 2012, 10:30 PM

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QUOTE(Kaka23 @ Oct 2 2012, 10:23 PM)
Following this thread for few months now, you will notice pro Geneva ppl are not polite...
*
You are referring to those online? Perhaps. But did you check those who commented about them? probably not. smile.gif


Added on October 2, 2012, 10:33 pm
QUOTE(Empathy @ Oct 2 2012, 10:28 PM)
Thanks, saw the message. Bravo to responsible company. BoOoO to the Police, Domestic Trade, Cooperatives and Consumerism Ministry, Companies Commission, BNM and those involved who "ROBBED" the company & the people's money in broad day light.

This post has been edited by celicaizpower: Oct 2 2012, 10:33 PM
celicaizpower
post Oct 2 2012, 10:36 PM

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QUOTE(Kaka23 @ Oct 2 2012, 10:34 PM)
Yes online, using not so kind words.... Those commented about them seems ok.
*
Ah... I see... must be the exempted few then... well in life also we do face these people.. no need to look far.. I am certain we can find 1 person like that in our office. smile.gif
celicaizpower
post Oct 3 2012, 01:30 AM

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QUOTE(aronteh @ Oct 3 2012, 12:32 AM)

Added on October 3, 2012, 1:22 amA bit on history on the Gold Trading in Malaysia.  wink.gif
The so call secret formula in the Gold Trading was create by a person known as "Sifu" in the Gold Bullion industry many year ago back in year 2000.

The person was a restricted resident under our M'sia Emergency Ordinance but release in early 2012 after our EO law was abolish by our home minister, but he still manage to operate many Gold Investment company in Malaysia. He is the mastermind in all the gold companies not only in Malaysia and Singapore but in Asia Pacific including China.

All the companies are run by his so call disciple and he never have his name register in any companies at all. He also have no bank accounts and properties under his name in Malaysia. Basically he is so good that he is almost invisible. The authorities can't charge him or put his to jail because no evidence can be produce in court to charge him.

Our government is well aware of him as many police reports have been made over the pass 10 years involving tan of Gold. So no evidence to charge him like many underworld taiko, just put him away under EO.

I came to know this Sifu went I was actively trading gold bullion and he bring me in as a disciple and teach me his formula and how to be invisible. I was to be appointed as director in one of his company. To keep story short I quit after realizing something is not right.    ohmy.gif
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If you don't mind sharing can you tell me who this person is? well, you can PM me anytime with the name.
celicaizpower
post Oct 3 2012, 01:45 AM

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QUOTE(aronteh @ Oct 3 2012, 01:39 AM)
I have his IC No and photograph also. But how does it help you?
I not going to put such info in public forum. I don't want to become an endangered species  sweat.gif You know want I mean.
Unless you have some powerful connection.
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I dont need the IC and photo, I would just love to talk to this person to understand his strategy or perhaps if you still know the strategy and can share it with me? This is so that I or perhaps we can protect ourselves by being able to know or identify the pattern. smile.gif

The other thing is also to know how the strategy works. biggrin.gif

p/s: Personally, I love knowledge & I tend to spend a lot of time reading wikis or ebooks.
celicaizpower
post Oct 3 2012, 07:53 AM

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QUOTE(aronteh @ Oct 3 2012, 02:43 AM)
Let me give you a hint. If you sell a product with 20% margin (slightly more due to own mint and branding) and with an annual operating expenditure 40++% including rebate, agent comm, staffs salary and etc.

You trading business will need to generate more than 200% return per annum just to break even from the 20% sales margin.

Of course 20% fix margin per sale assuming no top up upon contract expiry and other parameters to make it simple.

That will be an unimaginable performance and return. I think the world debt crisis can easily fix by our boleh land company.

The formula can only work in a perfect world where gold price are linear and sales grow are linear. Which will never happen in our real world.

When it become unsustainable there is when an exit plan is trigger.

I use to believe that formula works until we reach the pre final chapter of exit plan and reincarnation strategy. shocking.gif
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Hi bro, thanks for sharing, sincerely I appreciate the time you take to reply. I kinda get your point on the first and last part but I am a bit lost on this part, can you help to explain further?

Quote "aronteh" : annual operating expenditure 40++% including rebate, agent comm, staffs salary and etc. You trading business will need to generate more than 200% return per annum just to break even from the 20% sales margin.

Why I didn't get it;

1. I am a forex gold trader, based on history chart as we all know, gold price has been increasing like nobody's business for the past few years. so it is somewhat linear. true?

2. (Please stay with me for this one) Based of fact, If you buy Tons of gold it will be cheaper than buying grams. so lets say current Market price is for 1kg is RM177,420.00 (actual current market price at the time I wrote this) if you buy by the TONS I am certain you can get 10-20% cheaper than normal price. So let say the actual price bought is RM 150,807.00 which is 15% less. The company has save RM 26,613.00. But the company sells it at 20% extra which sums up to RM 212,904.00. So the company gives 2% return to investors and 0.5% commission to agents for a period of 3 months with adds up to a total of RM 4,790.34 per month times that by 3 would be RM 14,371.02. So if we take this amount which the company profited earlier due to purchase price discount RM 26,613.00 and deduct the commission and stuffs which is RM 14,371.02 shouldn't it be that the company already profited RM 12,241.98? further to that the company also profit from the Gold future price which normally has increased.

QUOTE(AUGUST777 @ Oct 3 2012, 05:03 AM)
this is for all teh tarik talkers....they are not bloggers! If you think it is you than it is you!
Wah the mystery person with his con artist strategy. Stop your imagery. What kind of blogging is this crap. If you can't identify him, what is the point of talking about him?? If you can't tel us about his "package", then don't tell us. How old are you?? This is no-brainer. Get an actuary to calculate for you the risk to put on a risk scale ratio. It takes computer simulation. This technique started in Insurance companies long time ago and eventually moved into banking. But now, even the Federal Reserve Bank of USA are printing money out of thin air. The banks no longer observe the fractional reserve ratio anymore. Why,cos the fiat money currency WILL be replaced by GOLD back currency very soon, may be by mid next year. So ask the actuary to do a calculation and you will find the odds of risk against safety ratio correlated to the factors that determine the gold market, in which case, on the long run VERY profitable. On the risk scale, the odds will be lessen as the time goes by but will be correlated to the factors based on the highly volatile energy market.......with hind sight, it suggests good....but the final nugget to this is the derivative market which shows signs of cracking up in the JP Morgan fiasco. That is the beginning, we saw it was  US$2b but analyst put it at US$10b. Some extrapolate it to US$100b (cos it was hidden in derivatives) cos JP Morgan also suppress the silver market price. And u know  to suppress worldwide silver price, ur capital has to be huge, so they has more than US$100b. Watch Rockefeller who is behind this. He is into banking. But we have seen nothing yet, this is just the starting point cos Federal Reserve has just started QE3 and buying mortgages from banks in US to hedge against derivative market. This is one big fiasco which will burn up US$600 trillion market value, a sure worldwide economic collapse. With this, gold backing Genneva will not collapse but stand to profit. So what is happening now to Genneva is very damaging to it, which i think could have benefited lots of normal people. If u hold gold, you will do well. Don just bla bla la, anyway i am not interested in your reply, might as well save your mental and finger effort. If you do, just amuse among yourselves. You lack knowledge and talk like a bunch of hens. (don mean to be rude). Nothing left to contribute. Adios.
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errr... I believe you quoted the wrong person. The one with the mystery person story was from aronteh. Not me. smile.gif
celicaizpower
post Oct 3 2012, 11:28 AM

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QUOTE(EddyLB @ Oct 3 2012, 09:28 AM)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «
1st off, I am not a Genneva agent/camp/whatever you call them & I am not interested to get a "WIN".
2ndly, I am not againts anyone in this forum.

QUOTE(gark @ Oct 3 2012, 09:44 AM)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «
I humbly suggest you go Lowyat and ask how much will a CPU cost you if you buy 1 unit vs how much it will cost you for 100 units, btw this same method is applied for Diamonds and Gold as well. However for diamonds it works slightly different whereby it is "sold/release" once a year for all the major distributors in which the more you buy, the cheaper the price.

I give you another live example, how can Habib Jewel, Poh Kong and whatever gold selling companies give you 70% discount during sales period? if their cost is high?

QUOTE(aronteh @ Oct 3 2012, 09:54 AM)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «
Bro, spot gold price and retail gold price got difference. Spot gold is the exact market rate without getting the real gold. Retail price is inclusive of currency exchange, manufacturing, security, transportation and etc charges (that I dunno of) included in so it is different all together.

Btw, I really wish I had billions, cause I would but then again if I already had billions, why should I rite? heheheheh smile.gif

QUOTE(teo1957 @ Oct 3 2012, 10:07 AM)
I've read this piece too and I found it absolutely disgraceful how a national newspaper can design a report to focus on how Genneva is purpotedly helping the needy. Mum's dialysis and son's college fees.

IT'S A FARKING SCAM LAR STOOPID!
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1. I really feel sorry for those people cause right now their loved ones are in trouble. Put yourself in their shoes, how would you feel?

2. Is if FACT that Genneva is scam? can you show me proof? please be reminded that they are being investigated & not found guilty yet. Please do not be a Typical Malaysian, "Guilty before proven innocent".
celicaizpower
post Oct 3 2012, 11:44 AM

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QUOTE(EddyLB @ Oct 3 2012, 09:28 AM)
BNM, islamic bodies put your name in the warning list for a few months already. If Genneva is a responsible co. you should already set up a team of lawyers to deal with BNM. 3 months is a long time to convince the authorities. It is very obvious either the Genneva bosses just sit on it thinking the warning list is just a joke by BNM trying to pull Genneva's leg, or Genneva's explanation of their business model is a joke to BNM

If the business is in fact a legitimate business, who is the main culprit that bring Genneva to this state ? It is the bosses of course for bad networking with the authorities.

But most probably it is the illegitimate business model that is causing the downfall of Genneva. In life most of the time, the answer to most questions are very simple. The con artist just making it complicated to fool people  sweat.gif
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QUOTE(sampool @ Oct 3 2012, 11:39 AM)
i agreed... bcos this company themself not think of running the biz for long... so y wasted $$ and times..  smile.gif
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Erm, how come what you say and what the 2nd person agree upon is againts what is mention in the source below? so is the Source incorrect?

The official, who wished to remain unnamed, said the firm wrote to the Finance Ministry earlier this year for guidance on gold trading and had also given its views on the business.

He said the ministry replied that a meeting would be arranged to listen to Genneva's views and suggestions on gold trading.

“So far, there has been no feedback on when the meeting will be held.


The Star (Source)
celicaizpower
post Oct 3 2012, 11:56 AM

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QUOTE(sampool @ Oct 3 2012, 11:49 AM)
ya loh.. maybe they try to settle internally not by law... if by law they cannot explain ow to get the source of ROI.
*
Not really, the failure here is BNM failed to follow up on a new appointment date to clarify things thus resulting the current situation. So based on this fact, who's fault is it?

btw, I prefer discussing based on fact. Things would be clearer that way & if it is proven as a fact that Genneva is a scam company, then I really hope those who are responsible get what they deserve but then again I still pity the investors.
celicaizpower
post Oct 3 2012, 01:43 PM

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QUOTE(HighRoller84 @ Oct 3 2012, 12:47 PM)
You might not be a geneva agent but you sure as hell are one of those gold agent scammers with your 10-15% guaranteed return per month scumbag company. Everyone look at his forum signature.
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Wow, I find it amazing that you call me a scammer without prove & evidence. You must be one of those typical malaysians "Guilty until proven innocent".

Please prove that I am a scammer before calling me one, otherwise STFU & tqvm. smile.gif
celicaizpower
post Oct 3 2012, 01:52 PM

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QUOTE(MakNok @ Oct 3 2012, 01:41 PM)
you are playing blame game now..
Blaming BNM for not following up???

If BNM raid means...Genneva is the one not following up..
icon_rolleyes.gif
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Hehehe thanks for the peace sign, I understand you are trying to prove a point don't worry I am here to discuss about the situation and not blaming anyone (in this forum la).

Ok, back to your statement above.

No I am not playing any games. I am clearly giving what is stated by the press as fact. Please see how I quoted them in the earlier post. Truth be told, our government agencies are not as good as they are supposed to be, in this case the fact is presented in The Star newspaper (refer SOS) is that BNM failed to respond with a date for interview.

Now, if you say that Genneva failed to follow up, where is your evidence? (well we might need to wait sometime more till it becomes a fact rite? the second consideration will be if it was really Genneva's fault in delaying, till then your statement is just an assumption, correct?)
celicaizpower
post Oct 3 2012, 02:05 PM

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QUOTE(MakNok @ Oct 3 2012, 01:54 PM)
Please see this weblink
http://imgur.com/eMbcD

it is where you Claim and GUarantee 10 to 15% in Gold Investment..

have you forgotten?? laugh.gif

CHECK your signature post! thumbup.gif
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Sorry, what does that prove? here let me educate you... it only proves that I am selling something that pays back a return monthly with in a certain percentage with gurantee.

Do you have evidence that it is a scam? no rite?

Do you know of anyone who say that I have scammed him/her? no rite?

Do you have a police report or a wanted list that say I am a scammer? no rite?

Or yet better still, is my name on the Apis Lua Lua list in "Trade Zone Helpdesk & Dispute Resolution Corner" as a scammer? also no rite?

So your point is not legit & without evidence. smile.gif

Btw in our court of Law, I can summon you for defamation... but what's the use... you are just the exception that is born every minute... smile.gif
celicaizpower
post Oct 3 2012, 02:10 PM

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QUOTE(aladdin @ Oct 3 2012, 02:03 PM)
If investment is so easy, maybe our government should put x billions of ringgit to get 10-15% return per annual. Few years after, our country will clear all the debts.
*
Thus why the term "High Risk, High Gain & Low Risk, Low Gain". The government wants to play it safe, what can we do? rite? Ultimately it is the investors choice.


Added on October 3, 2012, 2:13 pm
QUOTE(prophetjul @ Oct 3 2012, 02:07 PM)
Methinks the problem are these words
That makes on sound like a SCAm    biggrin.gif
*
The word MIGHT plays a big role and can be categorize in the same definition as ASSUMPTION. For instance why not take the word ASSUME and disect it, with some slight arrangement it can mean "AS$ U & ME". So lets not assume and give facts. smile.gif

This post has been edited by celicaizpower: Oct 3 2012, 02:13 PM
celicaizpower
post Oct 3 2012, 02:49 PM

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QUOTE(MakNok @ Oct 3 2012, 02:14 PM)
Hey..go ahead and SUE for all i care.

like some forummer posted here "Guarantee[SIZE=7][COLOR=red]"!!!!
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No purpose bro, again, my point here to discuss, not hurt people. smile.gif icon_rolleyes.gif

QUOTE(prophetjul @ Oct 3 2012, 02:18 PM)
its a FACT you use the word Guaranteed..........no?  Maening SURE? 

Its not an ASSumption......no?
guar·an·tee
   [gar-uhn-tee] Show IPA noun, verb, guar·an·teed, guar·an·tee·ing.

noun
1.
a promise or assurance, especially one in writing, that something is of specified quality, content, benefit, etc., or that it will perform satisfactorily for a given length of time: a money-back guarantee.

2.
guaranty ( defs. 1, 2 ) .

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/guaranteed?s=t
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Why I cannot guarantee? My business model, I run it as I want la rite? non of your business rite? does it affect you in anyway?

QUOTE(kuekwee @ Oct 3 2012, 02:37 PM)
You put the word guarantee 10-15% a month.  It's more than Geneva and you think we will believe this is not a scam?
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Yes, I put the return as that much cause to me it is fact based on my personal income for the past 4 years. Now, if you think it is a scam, SHOW ME YOUR EVIDENCE!!! Dont have rite?

celicaizpower
post Oct 3 2012, 02:53 PM

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QUOTE(MakNok @ Oct 3 2012, 02:47 PM)
Just came across this article about Genneva buyback

"Extra note for investors:
I’ve a friend’s friend who got the contract of Genneva. Inside, it states that the company will buy back the price at gold spot price, not the initial price that investors pay for. In this case, net loss can be more than 30% per contract!
Can Genuine Genneva Investor confirm this ar?
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Then better keep it longer, since the forex pro's (in most forex advisory team) say's that Gold is going to go up again. biggrin.gif
celicaizpower
post Oct 3 2012, 02:55 PM

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QUOTE(Raceroamer @ Oct 3 2012, 02:51 PM)
I've a friend who holds 4KG of Genneva physical gold. He started since 2 years ago from 500g then topped up till 4 KG over this 2 years. He really earned a lot from this investment. He even invited me to see the physical gold once. I still unable to contact him today, I hope he is ok.
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WOW! that's close to a Million man... I really hope he is ok. My friend kena about RM 140K & the gold was suppose to be given to him on the raid day... now he has nothing...

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