Dear millionaire boss,

Again im asking why you want to buy Rm1000 per Gold bar at Tom shop if you can get Rm900 per Gold bar at Harry shop?

Any sane millionaire investor would know if they want gold bar, they would go and buy the Rm900 at harrys' not the Rm1000 at toms'.

Im a newbie in investment therefore i want to know your thought on this.. Care to share?

Hello Prophet, you don't sound like a prophet lah.

You sound like a Taliban, you know

Example. Calculation quoted for 1kg of Gold.

1 - I buy gold from GMSB at 1kg at RM208k ( Market price around RM170k. Dont believe, check the price la.)
2 - GMSB so called promise to give me hibah 2% for 3 month. That's RM 4160 x 3 = RM12,480.
    BTW, hibah cannot be define upfront, it is a gift if the so called company make profit. How can u predict the profit when it has not taken place yet?
3 - After 3 month, I receive total Hibah of RM 12,480.

4 - GMSB gimme option:

i -  Keep gold. ( I already loose money because i bought at damned markup price of > 30%)
ii - Sell outside. No person want's to buy my gold at RM 208k or even RM 170k or even if the actual market price is at let's say RM 220k( in your wildest dream).  They will always buy it at a discount rate of at least 20 - 25% lower as mentioned in GMSB website. If sell at Habib, they take less 40% than spot market price. That is already a loose of at least RM 43k.
iii - Ohh, it seems that i have no choice. I have to sell at GMSB at the so called not promised purchase price (which is totally BS). Ok, so I get capital back. RM 208k ( if the so called willing buyer willing seller works ). And now GMSB have my gold... and  I walk away happily with the hibah i received and no gold.

The next customer comes in. They repeat the same process only this time GMSB gold price is at let's say 205k. But wait a tick, they are giving the new chap my previous gold. Which means????????????? They don't have to fork out money to buy the new chap a gold bar. Because they already have my previous gold stock. They oredi make profit by not buying new gold bar and at the same time this new chap receives hibah from his own money..... The cycle repeats itself it I were to re-invest in the scheme..... Makes sense huhh????

To GMSB, tick tock, tick tock...the clock is ticking....huhuhuhu... better stop misleading people ye. I know how much money u have in yur account.... but cannot tell laa... Nanti become rafizi woooo. Section 97 Bafia.... And stop telling bullshit stories about u getting approval under BAFIA. That was under DIMENSI Sentosa.... Change name, all business model change still wants to tell whole world have approval from BNM to operate... On paper no such thing as buy back guarantee, but in reality?? If u tell upfront GMSB won't guarantee u buy back people's gold u think they will invest aarr?? The only reason people give u money because they want hibah only. Gold wafer is just a collateral kan??? kan kan kan??? Approval oso for Factoring and Leasing Bisnesss...hahahha...GMSB have factoring aaarrr???

Chiowwwwww XOXO...

11. Does GENNEVA guarantee the buy back?
■No. You have the choice to sell back and GENNEVA has the discretion to buy at a mutually agreed price.
■To date, there are more than 50,000 satisfied clients nationwide in Malaysia, not including those in China, Hong Kong, Singapore and The Philippines.
■On Guarantee — Nothing in life is guaranteed including life itself.

Why boss @pokemonkiller dont reply my question? 

Are my question too stupid to be asked and not worthy of his time ah? 

If Genneva doesn't guarantee buy-back, then why should the customers buy their gold at premium >20% ?
Scenario 1 - with Guarantee buy back


1. Buy same amount = RM20k
2. Receive "Hibah" same = RM2400
3. End of 6th month, no guarantee buy back. Sell outside (discount say 30%) = 100g x RM140/g = RM14k
4. Total RM14000 + RM2400 = RM16400 = loss RM3600 or -18% in half a year

WTF ?? Did I miss out anything ? Why consumer so stupid to buy if without guarantee buy back ?

At least we know KFC is selling fried chicken and bank lend money to borrowers at higher interest rate.

Can you enlighten us how genneva generate their profit?

QUOTE(Rice_Owl84 @ Jul 16 2012, 10:47 PM)
This 3% stunt is quite scary.  Its move they are doing in order to get their old customers to top up.  Yes they have to top up in order to get the promotion.  So they can get more money into their cash flow.

This move look like it can either build or bust Genneva.  If gold price were to go up then yes genneva is safe with much more cash flow and this stunt  hat is also scary is the new document they are making the buyers sign. In that documenet it states that Genneva guarantees nothing and it will not guarantee it will buy back.  NO MORE GUANRANTEES this time.  Its like a big hint to pull out.

The goldco had subsequently put up 2 forms for ALL their customers to fill up and sign as follows :
Form SCG712-1 Safe custody of gold products
Form NPG712-1 Payment for new purchase of gold products from Genneva Sdn. Bhd.
These forms were actually to transfer all the risks of the goldco’s buyback arrangement to the customer.
Form SCG712-1 is summarized as follows :
We, the undersigned, hereby intend to sell the following gold product(s) to GMSB.
Pending the completion of the sale of these gold product(s), we hereby deliver the above mentioned gold product(s) to GMSB to be held in safe custody on our behalf.We hereby confirm that we are making the above request and delivery on our own free will.
Form NPG712-1 is summarized as follows :
We the undersigned, hereby intend to utilize the proceeds of the gold products sold by us to GMSB towards payment of our new purchase(s) of gold products from GMSB.
Accordingly, we therefore request GMSB not to issue the cheque for payment of the gold product(s) sold by us to GMSB (“Sales Proceeds”).
We hereby expressedly authorise GMSB to retain the sales proceeds and utilise the same towards payment of our new purchase(s) of gold products from GMSB.
We hereby confirm that we are making the above request and authorization on our own free will.


http://www.martinlee.sg/genneva-gold/comme...ge-14/#comments

You have been investing in gold for the last 12 years ah? Where....maybank2u ah?
When you buy over the counter in the jewelers, they got ask you to sign S&P and have to wait for processing or not?

If you buy from jeweler A and immediately walk into jeweler B and sell back to them, do they give you the same amount that you have paid for at Jeweler A ah?
You just bought it loh, still very hot one, jeweler B should pay you back exactly what you paid for in jeweler A mah.

OK, then what the hell did you write this??

d) Some have actually experienced SLOW payments and delivery of BARS. What the heck? i get delivery OVER
The counter at the jewellers for the same price!

It means that you have experienced before when you bought at jewelers, you get the delivery on the spot over the counter and no need to wait.
That is why you asked the question why slow payment and slow delivery of BARS ...... right or wrong??
Answer directly and don't twist and talk something else please.

Why you always and only ASSUME and you talk so big one? I thought you have bought before over the counter at the jeweller and immediately got the BARS, that is why you asked the question why in this company called GM people have to wait SOOOOOOO LOOOOONNNNNNG to get the BAR !!!

I don't care whether you are talking about SPOT prices ke or your mata is full of SPOTS and cannot see what is going on in this world

I only know it is all imagination and assumption...too heave dosage of  ecstasy pill I guess..

Son, I took your advice and called BNM.

A nice friendly lady who spoke very good English answered and I asked her about the 77 companies that BNM listed. I ask those usual questions and got some formal answers like politicians' reply. Then when I pop the big question "boleh invest kah ?" she replied 

After talking to BNM, I strongly advise everyone who wish to invest in these companies to call BNM BEFORE you part with your money. Remember to ask the last question specifically mention Genneva's name. You will get a very definite answer !
Again, please get advice from BNM before you invest

Hmm that means Genneva is lying through their teeth. Hibah don't count as interest ah? Looks the like it, smells like it, sounds like it, but it is not IT. 

The goldco had subsequently put up 2 forms for ALL their customers to fill up and sign as follows :
Form SCG712-1 Safe custody of gold products
Form NPG712-1 Payment for new purchase of gold products from Genneva Sdn. Bhd.
These forms were actually to transfer all the risks of the goldco’s buyback arrangement to the customer.
Form SCG712-1 is summarized as follows :
We, the undersigned, hereby intend to sell the following gold product(s) to GMSB.
Pending the completion of the sale of these gold product(s), we hereby deliver the above mentioned gold product(s) to GMSB to be held in safe custody on our behalf.We hereby confirm that we are making the above request and delivery on our own free will.
Form NPG712-1 is summarized as follows :
We the undersigned, hereby intend to utilize the proceeds of the gold products sold by us to GMSB towards payment of our new purchase(s) of gold products from GMSB.
Accordingly, we therefore request GMSB not to issue the cheque for payment of the gold product(s) sold by us to GMSB (“Sales Proceeds”).
We hereby expressedly authorise GMSB to retain the sales proceeds and utilise the same towards payment of our new purchase(s) of gold products from GMSB.
We hereby confirm that we are making the above request and authorization on our own free will.


http://www.martinlee.sg/genneva-gold/comme...ge-14/#comments

From Genneva facebbook on gold coin scams

Some dealers could be pushing offers for gold coins that
they hold for you. Make it a point to appreciate the safety
and care of your investment. If you can, take delivery.
While you will likely always have the option available to
have your dealer store your holdings, experience suggests
that undesirable things can happen. Storage costs can be
significant and onerous, and unless you can easily visit
the dealer’s premises, how can you be sure that the coins
exist?

http://freeinvestingtools.com/wp-content/u...5_gold_coin.pdf

experience suggests
that undesirable things can happen.

That's your personal opinion, that Genneva is lying, limited by your education or too much "education" a shame to the university you graduated from, for simply jumping into conclusion publicly without doing your homework. Or is this what your parents taught you to do?

Many companies came and gone; and left their clients stranded. GENNEVA management have shown they can ride any crisis even when the price of gold went down. 

Do your homework before slamming anyone. Thank you.

The goldco had subsequently put up 2 forms for ALL their customers to fill up and sign as follows :
Form SCG712-1 Safe custody of gold products
Form NPG712-1 Payment for new purchase of gold products from Genneva Sdn. Bhd.
These forms were actually to transfer all the risks of the goldco’s buyback arrangement to the customer.
Form SCG712-1 is summarized as follows :
We, the undersigned, hereby intend to sell the following gold product(s) to GMSB.
Pending the completion of the sale of these gold product(s), we hereby deliver the above mentioned gold product(s) to GMSB to be held in safe custody on our behalf.We hereby confirm that we are making the above request and delivery on our own free will.
Form NPG712-1 is summarized as follows :
We the undersigned, hereby intend to utilize the proceeds of the gold products sold by us to GMSB towards payment of our new purchase(s) of gold products from GMSB.
Accordingly, we therefore request GMSB not to issue the cheque for payment of the gold product(s) sold by us to GMSB (“Sales Proceeds”).
We hereby expressedly authorise GMSB to retain the sales proceeds and utilise the same towards payment of our new purchase(s) of gold products from GMSB.
We hereby confirm that we are making the above request and authorization on our own free will.


http://www.martinlee.sg/genneva-gold/comme...ge-14/#comments

Encik Sengih, u "conman sultant" GMSB kaaa? In investlah oso same story.. Why not u call by yourself BNM Link by yourself??? Your friend told u aarr??
Told yaa: Public Awareness.... Check...
Tick Tock Tick Tock..... How many days left before "they" come in??? 
[attachmentid=2993699][attachmentid=2993699]

I find it amusing that some ppl will spend whole day here day in day out to become self appoint vigilante and to all out to describe something that is less than perfect as "scam". Nothing in this world is risk free. I was wondering what ppl like prophetjul do for a living? full time genneva debunker? how does that generate income?

4) the company buys back the gold at the price it sells you.
I am not supporting Genneva or other gold trading companies but here is how it works for the doubting Thomases:

1. You buy gold at retail price (say 20% above spot/bank/wholesale price)

2. You get 2% rebate/hibah per month

3. So for those who say that the buyer is just getting back the excess money he overpaid in the first place, well, it is true and false.

4. True because you really are getting back the part of the 20% higher price you paid

5. False because after 10 months (20% divided by 2%) you would have got back all 20% excess that you have paid. If the company is still in business after 10 months and you continue to do the same, then every month you are making nett returns of 2%

6. You will only rugi if the company go bust before that 10 months because you would not have got back the 20% excess that you have paid because with the gold in hand, you can only sell it at spot/bank/wholesale price to the bank/goldsmith.

7. If the company continues trading the same beyond that 10 months, the rebate/hibah would be real and at 2%x12months = 24% per year (which is much, much higher than FD/ASN/ASB (non-Melayu no chance because of UMNO's racist policies) or what-have-you!)

8. To make it clearer, here are examples:

A. You buy 100g at RM200/g , ie. RM20k
Spot price is RM160/g , ie you "overpaid" by RM4k for the 100g
Every month you receive 2% rebate/hibah, ie RM400
If the company go bust after say 6 months, than total rebate received after 6 months = RM2,400
You sell the 100g gold at spot price RM16k
So total money you received after 6 months (and selling the gold) = RM16k + RM2,400 = RM 18,400
Which means that you rugi RM1,600 (ie. RM20k - RM18,400)

B. If the company go bust at 10 months, you break even after collecting the 10 months of rebat/hibah and selling the gold at spot price.

C. If the company continues business beyond 10 months, your returns for 100g gold investment at say 18 months would be:
18 x 2% per month of RM20k = RM7,200 (plus the 100g gold in hand)

D. If you put RM20k in FD at 3% per annum for 18 months, you would get RM900.

E. So your nett returns in your gold investment at the 18th month is RM7,200, ie. RM6,300 more than FD!
It is clear that  it is not entirely true that you are just getting back the excess money that you have paid.

If the price of gold goes up, your monthly rebate/hibah would proportionately increase even though the percentage is still the same, eg. 2% per month. It is like forced saving.

So what you are buying at 120% because at the end of the contract, you sell back the gold at 120% and get back exactly the same amount you paid. The gold company gives you part of the profit, ie 6% and take 14% for itself. Who would give you part of their profit? You can't really say that "you are paying yourself" because when you sell back the gold, you are getting back that 20%. And that 6% they give you over three months is more than you can get from your whatever type investments available, short of making some sacrifices to be a political leader and plundering the nation after that! As for the 14% which the company takes, don't all companies need to make profits and cover overheads?

10. Does GENNEVA guarantee the buy back?
■No. You have the choice to sell back and GENNEVA has the discretion to buy at a mutually agreed price.
■GENNEVA  does not in any manner, directly or indirectly, at present or in future gives an undertaking or guarantee the repurchase of the gold products sold to its purchaser (no buy back guarantee).

The goldco had subsequently put up 2 forms for ALL their customers to fill up and sign as follows :
Form SCG712-1 Safe custody of gold products
Form NPG712-1 Payment for new purchase of gold products from Genneva Sdn. Bhd.
These forms were actually to transfer all the risks of the goldco’s buyback arrangement to the customer.
Form SCG712-1 is summarized as follows :
We, the undersigned, hereby intend to sell the following gold product(s) to GMSB.
Pending the completion of the sale of these gold product(s), we hereby deliver the above mentioned gold product(s) to GMSB to be held in safe custody on our behalf.We hereby confirm that we are making the above request and delivery on our own free will.
Form NPG712-1 is summarized as follows :
We the undersigned, hereby intend to utilize the proceeds of the gold products sold by us to GMSB towards payment of our new purchase(s) of gold products from GMSB.
Accordingly, we therefore request GMSB not to issue the cheque for payment of the gold product(s) sold by us to GMSB (“Sales Proceeds”).
We hereby expressedly authorise GMSB to retain the sales proceeds and utilise the same towards payment of our new purchase(s) of gold products from GMSB.
We hereby confirm that we are making the above request and authorization on our own free will.


http://www.martinlee.sg/genneva-gold/comme...ge-14/#comments

atankuasa Fatwa Majlis Kebangsaan Ke-100 telah dengan jelas mengeluarkan fatwa bahawa Perlaburan Emas Genneva adalah tidak mengikut Syariah.

8. Who can buy Genneva Gold based on Syariah Principles?
■Anyone can buy – Muslims and non-Muslims alike.

Ignoring the Syariah compliant thinggy... arrgh.. I was soooooo tempted until i saw the:
a. primarily - the non buy back guarantee
b. secondary - the two docs if true
Dang - what to do, illogical to execute especially without (a.) + chicken lar, i don't like the odds of gaining x% but losing 40%+/- if have hard time selling the bar

All except Maybank, Public Bank, UOB, etc. Anyone see the pattern here?

Gold investment account can be backed or hedged by banks using gold futures contract, derivatives product etc, to protect bank interest/position, not necessary by physical gold.