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 GENNEVA MALAYSIA, some facts.., READ and UNDERSTAND

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EddyLB
post Jul 20 2012, 02:59 PM

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And the most innovative part is how to maneuver the Law. After G S/B was investigated and prosecuted, adjustments were made to the mode of operation to "comply" with law and until today, the clone GM S/B is still in operation

Why Bank Negara, Securities Commission, ROC are not doing anything ?

If we look at the Madoff's US$65 billion ponzi scheme, it was only when his own son reported to the authority that the scheme was finished. That is the time Madoff knew he couldn't hide anymore when the new customers' cash inflow is no longer enough to pay the old customers. The scheme lasted >15 years

This one started in 2009. It wouldn't end for another 12 years notworthy.gif


QUOTE
"Madoff said he began the Ponzi scheme in the early 1990s. However, federal investigators believe the fraud began as early as the 1970s. Concerns about Madoff's business surfaced as early as 1999, when financial analyst Harry Markopolos informed the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) that he believed it was legally and mathematically impossible to achieve the gains Madoff claimed to deliver. According to Markopolos, he knew within five minutes that Madoff's numbers didn't add up, and it took four hours of failed attempts to replicate them to conclude Madoff was a fraud.[58] He was ignored by the Boston SEC in 2000 and 2001, as well as by Meaghan Cheung at the New York SEC in 2005 and 2007 when he presented further evidence. He has since published a book, No One Would Listen, about the frustrating efforts he and his team made over a ten-year period to alert the government, the industry, and the press about the Madoff fraud.

Although Madoff's wealth management business ultimately grew into a multi-billion-dollar operation, none of the major derivatives firms traded with him because they didn't think his numbers were real. None of the major Wall Street firms invested with him either, and several high-ranking executives at those firms suspected he wasn't legitimate.[58]

Others also contended it was inconceivable that the growing volume of Madoff accounts could be competently and legitimately serviced by his documented accounting/auditing firm, a three-person firm with only one active accountant.[59]

The Federal Bureau of Investigation complaint says that during the first week of December 2008, Madoff confided to a senior employee, identified by Bloomberg News as one of his sons, that he said he was struggling to meet $7 billion in redemptions.[18] According to the sons, Madoff told Mark Madoff on December 9 that he planned to pay out $173 million in bonuses two months early.[60] Madoff said that "he had recently made profits through business operations, and that now was a good time to distribute it."[18] Mark told Andrew Madoff, and the next morning they went to their father's apartment and asked him how he could pay bonuses to his staff if he was having trouble paying clients. With Ruth Madoff nearby, Madoff told them he was "finished," that he had "absolutely nothing" left, that his investment fund was "just one big lie" and "basically, a giant Ponzi scheme."[60] According to their attorney, Madoff's sons then reported their father to federal authorities.[18] On December 11, 2008, he was arrested and charged with securities fraud.[20] "


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Madoff
ccslink
post Jul 20 2012, 04:07 PM

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"Markopolos was ignored by the Boston SEC in 2000 and 2001, as well as by Meaghan Cheung at the New York SEC in 2005 and 2007 when he presented further evidence. He has since published a book, No One Would Listen, about the frustrating efforts he and his team made over a ten-year period to alert the government, the industry, and the press about the Madoff fraud."

Sama-sama juga in Bolehland.
doraemonkiller
post Jul 20 2012, 11:17 PM

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http://www.bnm.gov.my/documents/2012/Senar..._sesawang_n.pdf
sillybearz
post Jul 21 2012, 01:08 AM

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QUOTE(doraemonkiller @ Jul 20 2012, 11:17 PM)
LOL unauthorized and not approved by BNM, but they are not doing anything to take these company down. More and more msians getting into these if BNM do not stop them blink.gif
EddyLB
post Jul 21 2012, 09:18 AM

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QUOTE(doraemonkiller @ Jul 20 2012, 11:17 PM)
Look who is on item #23...... drool.gif
SUSPink Spider
post Jul 21 2012, 09:54 AM

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QUOTE(sillybearz @ Jul 21 2012, 01:08 AM)
LOL unauthorized and not approved by BNM, but they are not doing anything to take these company down. More and more msians getting into these if BNM do not stop them  blink.gif
*
*Ahem*

"Regulations are red tape...we COULD have got the licensings and approvals IF we wanted too...but we are too busy earning money for our valued clients" sleep.gif

whistling.gif
EddyLB
post Jul 21 2012, 10:02 AM

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*ahem*

"the list is outdated. We have got all the approvals already. Believe me..." brows.gif

This post has been edited by EddyLB: Jul 21 2012, 10:03 AM
wongmunkeong
post Jul 21 2012, 10:32 AM

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*koff koff*
"We've got BNM directors and Syariah Compliance senior auditors on board with us to correct the misunderstanding/situation."
gark
post Jul 21 2012, 12:20 PM

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QUOTE(EddyLB @ Jul 20 2012, 09:49 AM)
Yes, it is very innovative. Basically it is an art of managing funds, which need very complex software/formula and PHD in finance to do it right. You got to have 6 way hedge against each other :

1. US$
2. RM
3. Gold spot price
4. Gold retail price
5. Old customer money (hibah)
6. new customer money
*
It is actually not that difficult...IMHO. laugh.gif The below figures is approx for most gold investment with 'discounts', as I do not have their actual numbers, but the modus operandi is roughly as follow.

1. Sell gold at lets say 24% above market value. Take customer money. drool.gif
2. Pay back 'interest' at 2% per month so after 12 months equal to selling price.
3. In the mean time use the gold price margin (24%)(free! blink.gif ) money to LEVERAGE on gold options (call or put).
4. If gold price goes up, everybody happy, the company get returns from investment, the customer redeem back gold price at the purchase value (not the physical value) and earn 24%. Merry goes round again...and again...
5. If gold price goes flat or lower, the company do not lose money, maybe even earn if they have the right option (remember the money is free as a deposit from customer, in which the higher purchase value more or less equal to the interest), the customer redeem back gold, but is given actual delivery of physical gold doh.gif . Or they can still give you redemption, but with 'other' people money, temporary until gold price goes up back. wink.gif
6. Now customer is stuck with this physical gold in hand. If the gold price is flat the customer earns nothing as the 'loss' is covered by 'interest', but they might feel good that they 'earned' (because they hold the gold at the 'perceived' value) but actually did not. If the gold is lower, then when and if the customer sell the gold, they will take a loss in value (the higher price paid & the difference in value), but mostly will try to convince themselves to keep longer and earn more. The customer psychology will and does not register a 'loss' as they have both the physical & the 24% 'interest' rclxms.gif brows.gif

Basically in the above, the company is basically selling you a PUT OPTION on gold, in which you take all the risk and they have free capital to bet on leveraged derivatives on the market.

So you take ALL the risk, they take SOME of the reward, So you untung or they untung? laugh.gif

There are many variation of the above, mix some words (hibah!PHD!Complex!expert!), rotate the purchase price, interest and discounts around you get a new scam every day. So rahsia pecah liao ... how? tongue.gif

This post has been edited by gark: Jul 21 2012, 12:51 PM
EddyLB
post Jul 21 2012, 01:38 PM

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Yes, it is free capital from greedy investors. If gold price going up, no problem. The business model works. In fact, when the customers renew, they have to pay to the company margin of higher gold price --> cash inflow

But if gold price comes down, they offer this guarantee to buy back at ORIGINAL price.

When gold price comes down, customer will insist on cash instead of holding gold. That is the time it will affect their cashflow. How do they service the loss ? You know I know lah brows.gif

Another important ingredient in this business model (and in all other ponzi scheme) is customers' confidence. If no fresh customers funds + existing customers insist to cash it out, the business will fall.

The company is recently :

1. declared non-halal by Islamic authority
2. in the Bank Negara list of "non-authorised nor approved under the relevant laws and regulations administered by BNM"
3. gold price looks stagnant or heading down (interest 2% still have to service)
4. increase the interest to 3%pm to attract old customers not to cash out (ie avoid cash outflow)

What does that mean ? sweat.gif

This post has been edited by EddyLB: Jul 21 2012, 01:43 PM
ccslink
post Jul 21 2012, 04:38 PM

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Anybody know anything about another physical gold investment scheme called CSGFM - Premier Fine Metals Trading, it works something like Genneva M'sia?
tiffanycla
post Jul 22 2012, 01:23 AM

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QUOTE(ccslink @ Jul 21 2012, 04:38 PM)
Anybody know anything about another physical gold investment scheme called CSGFM - Premier Fine Metals Trading, it works something like Genneva M'sia?
*
what company is that. it's better check wether they are regulated and approved by security commssion, bnm or ssm b4 u make any investment.
b00n
post Jul 22 2012, 02:53 PM

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QUOTE(wongmunkeong @ Jul 21 2012, 10:32 AM)
*koff koff*
"We've got BNM directors and Syariah Compliance senior auditors on board with us to correct the misunderstanding/situation."
*
Haha....
*ppl like us just talk without substance or points like /k/*.... tongue.gif
prophetjul
post Jul 23 2012, 07:37 AM

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QUOTE(gark @ Jul 21 2012, 12:20 PM)

2. Pay back 'interest' at 2% per month so after 12 months equal to selling price.
i think the contracts are only for 3 to 6 months max. So in effect, they dont pay you all the premiums back.

you still get scerwd of your capital.
SH Tan123
post Jul 23 2012, 08:58 AM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Jul 23 2012, 07:37 AM)
i think the contracts are only for 3 to 6 months max. So in effect, they dont pay you all the premiums back.

you still get scerwd of your capital.
*
You're right. You will NEVER get back yours premiums back based on the "Hibah" giving. Understanding the contract period is decided by the company according the GOLD price status. If the gold price increased, you need to topup the $$$ if you want to continue. You will always behind them....... cry.gif
janetllc
post Jul 23 2012, 09:54 AM

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QUOTE(ccslink @ Jul 21 2012, 04:38 PM)
Anybody know anything about another physical gold investment scheme called CSGFM - Premier Fine Metals Trading, it works something like Genneva M'sia?
*
They run the gold investment scheme same as Genneva, but 3 to 5 days customer can receive the physical gold in hand. Heard the company has changed to E-casear.
SyaSarah
post Jul 23 2012, 11:25 AM

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Totally scam laa... Please don't invest everyone. The enforcement's are just giving you time to cash out before they take action...... Only time will tell...Better save than sorry. Else you wont celebrate hari raya / deepavali / christmas and CNY wooo....

It's coming...really really soon...
Cash out now....

Attached Image



QUOTE(EddyLB @ Jul 21 2012, 01:38 PM)
Yes, it is free capital from greedy investors. If gold price going up, no problem. The business model works. In fact, when the customers renew, they have to pay to the company margin of higher gold price --> cash inflow

But if gold price comes down, they offer this guarantee to buy back at ORIGINAL price.

When gold price comes down, customer will insist on cash instead of holding gold. That is the time it will affect their cashflow. How do they service the loss ? You know I know lah  brows.gif

Another important ingredient in this business model (and in all other ponzi scheme) is customers' confidence. If no fresh customers funds + existing customers insist to cash it out, the business will fall.

The company is recently :

1. declared non-halal by Islamic authority
2. in the Bank Negara list of "non-authorised nor approved under the relevant laws and regulations administered by BNM"
3. gold price looks stagnant or heading down (interest 2% still have to service)
4. increase the interest to 3%pm to attract old customers not to cash out (ie avoid cash outflow)

What does that mean ?  sweat.gif
*
sengih
post Jul 25 2012, 01:32 PM

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Weird, since when Genneva is an investment company? I tot they are in gold trading biz i.e. buy/sell gold like poh kong/tomei?

This post has been edited by sengih: Jul 25 2012, 01:33 PM
prophetjul
post Jul 30 2012, 08:18 AM

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QUOTE(PatEagle @ Jul 30 2012, 02:15 AM)
There are lots of rumours and unsubstantiated claims by individuals just about anything under the sky out there.  doh.gif

Facts: GENNEVA Malaysia Sdn Bhd is a gold trader and does not fall under the purview of Bank Negara Malaysia nor Securities Commission Malaysia. Buying and selling gold or silver is not under the purview of Bank Negara Malaysia, thus BNM does not issue any license to any company who wish to conduct such activities.

ALL the more, one should beWARE of such companies...........its appears to be UNREGULated....

so whos to protect YOU? nod.gif
Grizly87
post Jul 30 2012, 03:03 PM

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this is getting interesting ... so GENNEVA Syariah falls under which company? It seems there are still people investing with the company and was suprise that PatEagle is promoting it in lowyat forum. Hmm ... this investment is too good to be true and fishy ~

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